2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[Typical Lax Dad]

So the increased risk to down ballot contests should not be factored into a decision to expand voting via unsolicited mail in ballots ?

Come on Salty.

We all know that no voting system is perfect. But what we do know (from a LOT of experience and evidence) is that the ability to rig an election is pretty much limited to one district. Like the 2018 congressional race in North Carolina that had to be redone. Which was GOP fraud, by the way.

But what that tells us is that it is basically impossible to rig a statewide or national election.

All of the fraud claims being made by the GOP (Trump, Rudy, Kraken Sid, Smiling Lying Jenna, Whacko Lin Wood) claim systematic fraud on a statewide and multi-state basis. So we know, to a 110% certainty, that those claims are complete and utter horse shirt. The idea that the statewide contest for president in five different states were rigged simultaneously is beyond tin foil hats.

So let's talk about something a little bit more realistic. Do we think that the moon landings were faked inside a TV studio?

If there's a claim about fraud in a particular down ballot race in a particular district, I haven't heard about it. Have you from this election cycle?

Give them time to come forward. These are from just prior to this election.

https://www.heritage.org/election-integ ... l-about-it

I'm not claiming the final result was changed in the national or any particular statewide election.
You keep equating what Trump's lawyers are arguing to what I'm saying.
Prop up that strawman so you can knock it down again.

1,300/140,000,000 = You are ridiculous

[old salt]

The states I've heard the most complaints about are naturally the close ones -- PA, MI, WI, GA, NV & AZ. In each state the complaints are complex & different.

so what exactly are you concerned about?

Reread the red parts of my reply to afan. Everybody's ignoring the potential impact on down ballot races where fraud & errors can make a difference.

So you are concerned about down ballot - but just in states that Trump lost.

Why do you say that ? I included examples from other states.

[old salt]

I'm not claiming the final result was changed in the national or any particular statewide election.
You keep equating what Trump's lawyers are arguing to what I'm saying.
Prop up that strawman so you can knock it down again.

So you are saying that you agree with me that Trump, Rudy and Kraken Sid are committing election fraud?
I do not know. I have not examined what they have presented in court. If they've committed fraud, I'm sure they will be charged. I've yet to see anything reported in the media that confirms what the media reports they are arguing. I've yet to see a convincing argument with proof.

And that their claims, with respect to multiple state-wide contests in the presidential election, are baseless?
I've seen no proof that supports those claims.

And that it is basically impossible to rig any statewide election? Which means that systematic widespread voter fraud does not exist?
Not yet. This is still new to most states. If things like ballot harvesting & unmonitored drop boxes are permitted, signatures are not verified, bipartisan poll watchers are restricted, or "innovative" registration drives are undertaken, I can see potential for widespread fraud.

If we can agree on those items, then I'm happy to talk about down ballot issues that might occur in single district contests.
Suit yourself.

Let us know Salty.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Trump, Flynn and Powell in the Oval Office talking about over turning the election. Powell may be named Special Counsel.....That’s your team....

[MDlaxfan76]

I'm not claiming the final result was changed in the national or any particular statewide election.
You keep equating what Trump's lawyers are arguing to what I'm saying.
Prop up that strawman so you can knock it down again.

So you are saying that you agree with me that Trump, Rudy and Kraken Sid are committing election fraud?
I do not know. I have not examined what they have presented in court. If they've committed fraud, I'm sure they will be charged. I've yet to see anything reported in the media that confirms what the media reports they are arguing. I've yet to see a convincing argument with proof.

And that their claims, with respect to multiple state-wide contests in the presidential election, are baseless?
I've seen no proof that supports those claims.

And that it is basically impossible to rig any statewide election? Which means that systematic widespread voter fraud does not exist?
Not yet. This is still new to most states. If things like ballot harvesting & unmonitored drop boxes are permitted, signatures are not verified, bipartisan poll watchers are restricted, or "innovative" registration drives are undertaken, I can see potential for widespread fraud.

If we can agree on those items, then I'm happy to talk about down ballot issues that might occur in single district contests.
Suit yourself.

Let us know Salty.

IF...
If a frog had wings...

come on, there are rigorous procedures to ensure that the signatures match, ballots are valid, and not 'harvested'...accepted procedures by both D's and R's, and there are tough penalties for anyone actually committing fraud.

want to improve on any of these procedures? Have at it...but don't restrict voting access because you're scared more votes may mean the other team will win...

The GOP needs to get off this horse, it's anti-American and an ultimate loser.

[RedFromMI]

Trump, Flynn and Powell in the Oval Office talking about over turning the election. Powell may be named Special Counsel.....That’s your team....

And there seems to be much pushback about some of these ideas for some slightly more sane hands in the WH (Meadows, Cippilone). But Trump does seem to be getting a bit more unhinged with every passing day.

If somehow Trump names Powell to do ANYTHING official the second Biden takes office she will be unceremoniously booted out of any involvement. And no one sensible will object.

[Typical Lax Dad]

This is what a damned fool looks like:



Faithfulness to our President? Go F yourself.

[ggait]

Not yet. This is still new to most states. If things like ballot harvesting & unmonitored drop boxes are permitted, signatures are not verified, bipartisan poll watchers are restricted, or "innovative" registration drives are undertaken, I can see potential for widespread fraud.

Salty -- here's why your "concerns" are so completely bogus.

None of these things are new. The trend away from election day/in person voting has been going on for many many years. So let's look at 2016, for example, when you didn't make one peep about this stuff. Because your dude won and Hillary (who has more balls than Trump) conceded. Like any normal person would.

40% (57 million) of 2016s vote nationwide were early/absentee/mail. In 16 states the majority of all votes were early/absentee/mail. Among those states were swingy Arizona (75% early/mail/absentee in 2016), Florida (68%), Georgia (59%), NC (65%), and Texas(63%).

But since those states went for Trump in 2016, not one single rat forking Banana Republican expressed even one concern about those states.

So there's only one forking reason why you are opening your yapper now -- because your dude lost. You've completely lost your way Salty. It's pathetic.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/1 ... y-overview

[old salt]

Not yet. This is still new to most states. If things like ballot harvesting & unmonitored drop boxes are permitted, signatures are not verified, bipartisan poll watchers are restricted, or "innovative" registration drives are undertaken, I can see potential for widespread fraud.

Salty -- here's why your "concerns" are so completely bogus.

None of these things are new. The trend away from election day/in person voting has been going on for many many years. So let's look at 2016, for example, when you didn't make one peep about this stuff. Because your dude won and Hillary (who has more balls than Trump) conceded. Like any normal person would.

40% (57 million) of 2016s vote nationwide were early/absentee/mail. In 16 states the majority of all votes were early/absentee/mail. Among those states were swingy Arizona (75% early/mail/absentee in 2016), Florida (68%), Georgia (59%), NC (65%), and Texas(63%).

But since those states went for Trump in 2016, not one single rat forking Banana Republican expressed even one concern about those states.

So there's only one forking reason why you are opening your yapper now -- because your dude lost. You've completely lost your way Salty. It's pathetic.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/1 ... y-overview

It was new to most states to have to process this volume of mail in ballots.

None of us know the details of what went on in local polling places & in every different state.
That's why I am willing to wait & see what comes out of the various states as they prepare for 2022,
before I accept partisan assurances. I'm confident it will be investigated & debated in individual states.
I'm not calling to overturn the election. Neither am I sanguine about doing the next one this way yet.
Scolding, name calling & impugning motives is not convincing or reassuring.

[RedFromMI]

And in spite of the large number of mail in/absentee ballots there does not appear to be ANY significant evidence of problems of fraud. In fact, there does not appear to be any evidence of fraud that has been exposed (false news reports on Fox/OAN/NewsMax don't count as exposing fraud, nor does the idea that "questions have been raised" absent some real evidence).

[old salt]

IF...
If a frog had wings...

come on, there are rigorous procedures to ensure that the signatures match, ballots are valid, and not 'harvested'...accepted procedures by both D's and R's, and there are tough penalties for anyone actually committing fraud.

want to improve on any of these procedures? Have at it...but don't restrict voting access because you're scared more votes may mean the other team will win...

The GOP needs to get off this horse, it's anti-American and an ultimate loser.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ballot-har ... ned-rules/

ballot harvesting — involves a law that allows third parties to collect and deliver ballots in some states.

...several states allow operatives..., as well as campaign volunteers and other third party advocates to collect completed, authenticated ballots.

In states where the practice is legal, volunteers or campaign workers can go directly to the homes of voters, collect the completed ballots, and drop them off en masse at polling places or election offices. In some states, ballot harvesters can be paid hourly for their work collecting ballots.

Critics fear that in states without restrictions on who can return a ballot on someone else's behalf, a third party could take advantage of the system by tampering with or discarding the ballots.

The GOP needs to game the new system as effectively as the (D)'s did.

Ballots (with postmarks) submitted via USPS theoretically provide security & a chain of custody,
but there are still cases of lost or misplaced ballots & postal workers prosecuted for fraud.
Are there sufficient Postal Inspectors to ensure the same level of security as in-person voting ?

How do you verify chain of custody & no ballot harvesting when drop boxes are used ?

[MDlaxfan76]

Baloney.

Interesting re White House mtg with Flynn and Kraken...https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/19/politics ... index.html

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not yet. This is still new to most states. If things like ballot harvesting & unmonitored drop boxes are permitted, signatures are not verified, bipartisan poll watchers are restricted, or "innovative" registration drives are undertaken, I can see potential for widespread fraud.

Salty -- here's why your "concerns" are so completely bogus.

None of these things are new. The trend away from election day/in person voting has been going on for many many years. So let's look at 2016, for example, when you didn't make one peep about this stuff. Because your dude won and Hillary (who has more balls than Trump) conceded. Like any normal person would.

40% (57 million) of 2016s vote nationwide were early/absentee/mail. In 16 states the majority of all votes were early/absentee/mail. Among those states were swingy Arizona (75% early/mail/absentee in 2016), Florida (68%), Georgia (59%), NC (65%), and Texas(63%).

But since those states went for Trump in 2016, not one single rat forking Banana Republican expressed even one concern about those states.

So there's only one forking reason why you are opening your yapper now -- because your dude lost. You've completely lost your way Salty. It's pathetic.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/1 ... y-overview

It was new to most states to have to process this volume of mail in ballots.

None of us know the details of what went on in local polling places & in every different state.
That's why I am willing to wait & see what comes out of the various states as they prepare for 2022,
before I accept partisan assurances. I'm confident it will be investigated & debated in individual states.
I'm not calling to overturn the election. Neither am I sanguine about doing the next one this way yet.
Scolding, name calling & impugning motives is not convincing or reassuring.

[Typical Lax Dad]

IF...
If a frog had wings...

come on, there are rigorous procedures to ensure that the signatures match, ballots are valid, and not 'harvested'...accepted procedures by both D's and R's, and there are tough penalties for anyone actually committing fraud.

want to improve on any of these procedures? Have at it...but don't restrict voting access because you're scared more votes may mean the other team will win...

The GOP needs to get off this horse, it's anti-American and an ultimate loser.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ballot-har ... ned-rules/

ballot harvesting — involves a law that allows third parties to collect and deliver ballots in some states.

...several states allow operatives..., as well as campaign volunteers and other third party advocates to collect completed, authenticated ballots.

In states where the practice is legal, volunteers or campaign workers can go directly to the homes of voters, collect the completed ballots, and drop them off en masse at polling places or election offices. In some states, ballot harvesters can be paid hourly for their work collecting ballots.

Critics fear that in states without restrictions on who can return a ballot on someone else's behalf, a third party could take advantage of the system by tampering with or discarding the ballots.

The GOP needs to game the new system as effectively as the (D)'s did.

Ballots (with postmarks) submitted via USPS theoretically provide security & a chain of custody,
but there are still cases of lost or misplaced ballots & postal workers prosecuted for fraud.
Are there sufficient Postal Inspectors to ensure the same level of security as in-person voting ?

How do you verify chain of custody & no ballot harvesting when drop boxes are used ?

https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/19/business ... index.html

[MDlaxfan76]

IF...
If a frog had wings...

come on, there are rigorous procedures to ensure that the signatures match, ballots are valid, and not 'harvested'...accepted procedures by both D's and R's, and there are tough penalties for anyone actually committing fraud.

want to improve on any of these procedures? Have at it...but don't restrict voting access because you're scared more votes may mean the other team will win...

The GOP needs to get off this horse, it's anti-American and an ultimate loser.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ballot-har ... ned-rules/

ballot harvesting — involves a law that allows third parties to collect and deliver ballots in some states.

...several states allow operatives..., as well as campaign volunteers and other third party advocates to collect completed, authenticated ballots.

In states where the practice is legal, volunteers or campaign workers can go directly to the homes of voters, collect the completed ballots, and drop them off en masse at polling places or election offices. In some states, ballot harvesters can be paid hourly for their work collecting ballots.

Critics fear that in states without restrictions on who can return a ballot on someone else's behalf, a third party could take advantage of the system by tampering with or discarding the ballots.

The GOP needs to game the new system as effectively as the (D)'s did.

Ballots (with postmarks) submitted via USPS theoretically provide security & a chain of custody,
but there are still cases of lost or misplaced ballots & postal workers prosecuted for fraud.
Are there sufficient Postal Inspectors to ensure the same level of security as in-person voting ?

How do you verify chain of custody & no ballot harvesting when drop boxes are used ?

Nonsense
Any such is detected because voters can check to see whether their vote has been registered or not...if there's a pattern of 'not' then the question becomes how...gets caught...that's what happened to the GOP fraud in Carolina...

[MDlaxfan76]

Not yet. This is still new to most states. If things like ballot harvesting & unmonitored drop boxes are permitted, signatures are not verified, bipartisan poll watchers are restricted, or "innovative" registration drives are undertaken, I can see potential for widespread fraud.

Salty -- here's why your "concerns" are so completely bogus.

None of these things are new. The trend away from election day/in person voting has been going on for many many years. So let's look at 2016, for example, when you didn't make one peep about this stuff. Because your dude won and Hillary (who has more balls than Trump) conceded. Like any normal person would.

40% (57 million) of 2016s vote nationwide were early/absentee/mail. In 16 states the majority of all votes were early/absentee/mail. Among those states were swingy Arizona (75% early/mail/absentee in 2016), Florida (68%), Georgia (59%), NC (65%), and Texas(63%).

But since those states went for Trump in 2016, not one single rat forking Banana Republican expressed even one concern about those states.

So there's only one forking reason why you are opening your yapper now -- because your dude lost. You've completely lost your way Salty. It's pathetic.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/1 ... y-overview

Painfully, all true.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Not yet. This is still new to most states. If things like ballot harvesting & unmonitored drop boxes are permitted, signatures are not verified, bipartisan poll watchers are restricted, or "innovative" registration drives are undertaken, I can see potential for widespread fraud.

Salty -- here's why your "concerns" are so completely bogus.

None of these things are new. The trend away from election day/in person voting has been going on for many many years. So let's look at 2016, for example, when you didn't make one peep about this stuff. Because your dude won and Hillary (who has more balls than Trump) conceded. Like any normal person would.

40% (57 million) of 2016s vote nationwide were early/absentee/mail. In 16 states the majority of all votes were early/absentee/mail. Among those states were swingy Arizona (75% early/mail/absentee in 2016), Florida (68%), Georgia (59%), NC (65%), and Texas(63%).

But since those states went for Trump in 2016, not one single rat forking Banana Republican expressed even one concern about those states.

So there's only one forking reason why you are opening your yapper now -- because your dude lost. You've completely lost your way Salty. It's pathetic.

https://www.eac.gov/documents/2017/10/1 ... y-overview

Painfully, all true.

A caricature now......even his acolytes have dropped him.

[old salt]

IF...
If a frog had wings...

come on, there are rigorous procedures to ensure that the signatures match, ballots are valid, and not 'harvested'...accepted procedures by both D's and R's, and there are tough penalties for anyone actually committing fraud.

want to improve on any of these procedures? Have at it...but don't restrict voting access because you're scared more votes may mean the other team will win...

The GOP needs to get off this horse, it's anti-American and an ultimate loser.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ballot-har ... ned-rules/

ballot harvesting — involves a law that allows third parties to collect and deliver ballots in some states.

...several states allow operatives..., as well as campaign volunteers and other third party advocates to collect completed, authenticated ballots.

In states where the practice is legal, volunteers or campaign workers can go directly to the homes of voters, collect the completed ballots, and drop them off en masse at polling places or election offices. In some states, ballot harvesters can be paid hourly for their work collecting ballots.

Critics fear that in states without restrictions on who can return a ballot on someone else's behalf, a third party could take advantage of the system by tampering with or discarding the ballots.

The GOP needs to game the new system as effectively as the (D)'s did.

Ballots (with postmarks) submitted via USPS theoretically provide security & a chain of custody,
but there are still cases of lost or misplaced ballots & postal workers prosecuted for fraud.
Are there sufficient Postal Inspectors to ensure the same level of security as in-person voting ?

How do you verify chain of custody & no ballot harvesting when drop boxes are used ?

Nonsense
Any such is detected because voters can check to see whether their vote has been registered or not...if there's a pattern of 'not' then the question becomes how...gets caught...that's what happened to the GOP fraud in Carolina...

...how many voters are going to know that, or take the trouble to do it ?
The purpose of voting by mail is to make it easier.
It should not require voters to investigate if their vote was counted.

[CU77]

Why not? It's easy.

I've always voted in person, until this year. This year, I dropped my ballot in a drop-box. Checked my county's election web site a few days later to see if it had been picked up. (Instructions on how to check had been included with the ballot.) It had. Took less than a minute to check.

Total time and effort spent on voting (including the check) was much less than in person, even though lines in my district are usually quite short.

[DocBarrister]

Baloney.

Interesting re White House mtg with Flynn and Kraken...https://www.cnn.com/2020/12/19/politics ... index.html

It is deeply disturbing and completely disgusting that imposing martial law to overturn an election was even discussed in the Oval Office.

Everyone was warned, including by Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, that Donald Trump was unfit for the presidency.

Trump has proven them right.

DocBarrister