2020 Elections - Trump FIRED

[a fan]

The states I've heard the most complaints about are naturally the close ones -- PA, MI, WI, GA, NV & AZ. In each state the complaints are complex & different.

Right. So the States that Trump lost. The other States? No complaints.

And you're telling me with a straight face that that's the world's biggest coincidence? Don't you think that people with an IQ above room temperature would take these complaints a tad more seriously if you threw in---oh, I don't know----one single freaking State that Trump won?

I mean----can't you and your fellow complainers at least TRY and make it sound like you give two figs about anything other than the fact that Trump lost?

How about Texas? They made "last minute changes". Closing ballot box drop offs, etc. What about them? Did Trump win there fraudulently? Or what about downticket? Any problems there in close TX races? Are you "worried' that Republicans might have won fraudulently there?

No. You're not worried. And neither is FoxNation. Every State that Trump won? No court cases. No problems, everything is perfect.

Come on man. No one is this stupid. If you're going to feign care about secure and truthful elections? You have to put some effort into the nonsense, and throw in at least one State that Trump won, and say "boy, this looks fishy".

Instead? Whoops, I am "coincidently" concerned about these six States----that Trump just "happened" to have lost.

Trump's attacks on mail in voting & the USPS were disruptive & depressed (R) mail in turnout.

Yep. And I told you that would happen.
No question there. You're a genius. Sure. Make fun. Not my fault that the Republican party is this stupid.

So what ? That's irrelevant in a mail in election. Each state had different ID rqmt's in normal (non-pandemic) elections.

Been saying this for a decade here. Not one single State demands that everyone vote in person, ID in hand. And shocker, after all the whining from Republicans about voter ID in the last election, not one single Republican run State made the change to ID in hand at polling place only.

The Point? They don't REALLY care about ID's. Scoreboard tells you that they don't. If you REALLY care? You fix the fake problem.

That's not what I asked. How do you show ID if you vote by mail ?

You don't. And as I keep telling you, all 50 States allow absentee ballots, and have for years. Every single one of them.

Let me know when a Republican-run State changes from that, and makes every single voter vote at a polling place, with an ID. I told you this in 2016. Nothing will change on this count. And shocker, I was right. And things won't change in 2024.

[old salt]

The states I've heard the most complaints about are naturally the close ones -- PA, MI, WI, GA, NV & AZ. In each state the complaints are complex & different.

Right. So the States that Trump lost. The other States? No complaints.

And you're telling me with a straight face that that's the world's biggest coincidence? Don't you think that people with an IQ above room temperature would take these complaints a tad more seriously if you threw in---oh, I don't know----one single freaking State that Trump won?
Come on, use your head. The national media only reports about it in the states where it might have been close enough to change the states outcome, where Trump filed suits. That does not mean there was no fraud or irregularities in other states. It just wasn't news because it wasn't being contested for the Presidency. Would you have heard about that Congressional race in NY had FNC not reported it ?

I mean----can't you and your fellow complainers at least TRY and make it sound like you give two figs about anything other than the fact that Trump lost? Pollsters say they factor in a 3-5% (D) advantage due to "irregularities". I want clean elections & I want voters to care enough to show up to vote, or take the trouble to request a ballot & properly fill it out & submit it. I don't think that's an unreasonable expectation. I want to eliminate ballot harvesting & voting by dead people & illegal immigrants. It's not that hard a concept to grasp.

How about Texas? They made "last minute changes". Closing ballot box drop offs, etc. What about them? Did Trump win there fraudulently? Or what about downticket? Any problems there in close TX races? Are you "worried' that Republicans might have won fraudulently there?
Do you know there weren't any complaints in TX, or have you just not heard about them because they'd have no potential impact on a natonal race.
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/ne ... tion-fraud
https://www.texasattorneygeneral.gov/ne ... oter-fraud
https://ctmirror.org/2020/11/13/voter-f ... -by-trump/
Voter fraud is real, just not on the scale claimed by Trump
President Donald J. Trump is correct in saying voter fraud is real. And if he were a losing candidate for, say, the Board of Representatives in Stamford, Conn., in 2015, Trump might have a valid claim he was robbed. But not in the 2020 race for president.
All evidence points to voter fraud as local, small-scale and relatively rare — not national or assembly-line efficient. A dozen or so improperly obtained absentee ballots can conceivably tip a close local election, as was alleged to have happened in Stamford five years ago. It never has been pervasive or scalable.
That’s not to say mistakes aren’t made — or that fraud doesn’t happen.
Most of the elections enforcement fraud cases involve absentee ballots.

No. You're not worried. And neither is FoxNation. Every State that Trump won? No court cases. No problems, everything is perfect.

Come on man. No one is this stupid. If you're going to feign care about secure and truthful elections? You have to put some effort into the nonsense, and throw in at least one State that Trump won, and say "boy, this looks fishy".
That's why I said each state will sort it out.

Instead? Whoops, I am "coincidently" concerned about these six States----that Trump just "happened" to have lost.

Trump's attacks on mail in voting & the USPS were disruptive & depressed (R) mail in turnout.

Yep. And I told you that would happen.
No question there. You're a genius. Sure. Make fun. Not my fault that the Republican party is this stupid.

So what ? That's irrelevant in a mail in election. Each state had different ID rqmt's in normal (non-pandemic) elections.

Been saying this for a decade here. Not one single State demands that everyone vote in person, ID in hand. And shocker, after all the whining from Republicans about voter ID in the last election, not one single Republican run State made the change to ID in hand at polling place only.

The Point? They don't REALLY care about ID's. Scoreboard tells you that they don't. If you REALLY care? You fix the fake problem.

That's not what I asked. How do you show ID if you vote by mail ?

You don't. And as I keep telling you, all 50 States allow absentee ballots, and have for years. Every single one of them.
Not on this scale they haven't. It's not an absentee ballot unless you request it. You have to establish your ID when you request it. They were designed for voters who would be absent from their state on election day, like I was all those years I requested one & mailed it back to MO. You need not school me on absentee ballots. It was not always this easy. Unsolicited junk mail ballots are not absentee ballots. The voter is not absent from his mailing address.

Let me know when a Republican-run State changes from that, and makes every single voter vote at a polling place, with an ID. I told you this in 2016. Nothing will change on this count. And shocker, I was right. And things won't change in 2024.
You are now being willfully obtuse & setting up strawmen which I am not advocating. I told you awhile back how I would make voting easier. It just doesn't include unsolicited junk mail ballots, submitted with no chain of custody, that could be harvested & duplicated.

[cradleandshoot]

This entire faux debate is about how future elections will be conducted in the US.

Thanks to the pandemic, the (D)'s stole a march

Oh, sweet turn of phrase there! "Stole a march" is indeed an old idiom that means "gained an unexpected advantage", but working in the word "stole" here was touch of genius.

on the (R)'s & were able to make this a national election conducted primarily via unsolicited mail in ballots, administered under pandemic rationalized rules which were established shortly before the election, in some cases, without the required participation of state legislatures.

And now an outright lie. This issue was adjudicated before multiple state and federal courts, up to and including SCOTUS, and was found to be false.

It was right out of Stacey Abram's playbook & mirrors the DNC strategy contained in Pelosi's HR1. The GOP failed to effectively counter this strategy before & during the election, resulting in insufficient evidence to pursue post-election legal challenges. Epic fail for the GOP.

You mean not enough people voted for them. The "unsolicited" ballots went to all, not just Ds.

If the GOP is to survive as a national party, we will need to find an effective counter strategy if voting via unsolicited mail in ballots becomes the norm rather than the exception. This election, the (D)'s more effectively captured their low propensity voters than the (R)'s did. Do the (R)'s have sufficient untapped low propensity voters to catch up on the increase in turnout made possible via unsolicited mail in ballots. Was the shortfall due to an insufficient pool of untapped low propensity (R) voters, or because of Trump's effort to cast doubt & discourage mail in voting. I suspect the RNC is polling & analyzing to find out.

The shortfall was due to a majority figuring out that having a not-very-useful idiot (in thrall to a vicious dictator waging ruthless cyberwar against us) and criminal grifter as POTUS was a bad idea after all. Who coulda guessed?

At the state level, expect the (R)'s to resist unsolicited mail in ballots & to push for more rigorous maintenance of accurate voter registration rolls & increased election monitoring. This will play out at both state & national levels before the 2022 election. (imho)

Oh yes, the trumpistas will try to further suppress the vote.

Because as McCain and Romney campaign strategist Steve Schmidt has pointed out, there is now only one party in America that believes in democracy.

+1. Another good post/reply. The Republican strategy is the same: reduce the Census count; gerrymander the districts whenever and wherever possible to lock in the voters to whom their candidate will prostrate him- or herself; making voting harder for people of color and "low propensity voters." If everyone votes, the GOP is f*cked.

making voting harder for people of color and "low propensity voters." If everyone votes, the GOP is f*cked.


Very interesting sentiments there coaster. For them to be true you have to accept the premise that people of color are too stupid to exercise their right to vote. What you are insinuating is that a majority of black Americans are too stupid to know how and when to vote. How ignorant and racist of you to propagate such a disgusting ideal. You don't think in the year 2020 that black Americans don't need a FLP peckerhead to reinforce the importance of the black vote. Then you go and insult them by declaring them to be too stupid to understand that they should be concerned about a bunch of liberals who think them to be too stupid to understand how to vote. GOOD JOB there Coaster, your lack of respect for black Americans is pretty pathetic there my friend.

Well, sorry you feel that way. I don't think anyone is "too dumb to vote;" I don't think intelligence has anything to do with who can vote or for whom they vote. You just get to vote if you are a citizen of one of the states of this country. I do think putting one collection box for ballots in a city or region of 4,000,000, at the direction of a Governor or Secretary of State from one party, makes voting arduous -- and it shouldn't be. I think having people vote on Tuesdays makes voting more logistically difficult -- and it shouldn't be. And so on. It isn't about intestinal fortitude. It is about making the vote easily and equally available to all Americans, irrespective of the vote they might cast, or the vote -- more realistically for this discussion -- that you suspect they might cast.

I am not woefully ignorant, anyway, and I am absolutely not racist, and it saddens me that you think I am. I never said anything about anyone being "too stupid to understand how to vote." I'm actually a little astonished you took my concededly partisan comments that way. I just want people to be free to vote. And I don't think that Republicans, in their hearts or hearts, want the same thing.

Coaster, I certainly did not mean to insult you. My response upon further review was very poorly worded. Sometimes I type faster than my brain can think. I don't believe that voters being disenfranchised in large numbers is that big of a problem anymore. The example you stated about that single drop box in Texas was pretty hinky stuff. Things like that are best treated by shining a very bright media spot light on them when they are tried. In an election where a record number of people voted for POTUS it is sort of difficult to argue that voters were suppressed in any significant way. I would make the same point against the republican hard core people saying that the Democrats were stuffing the boxes with absentee ballots. I'm certain there were some attempts by both side to pull of some hinky stuff. I will always believe that any American that wants to vote can and will find a way to do so. When I implied these people were too stupid that was very poorly said on my part. It was a bad attempt at sarcasm which failed miserably.

[seacoaster]

This entire faux debate is about how future elections will be conducted in the US.

Thanks to the pandemic, the (D)'s stole a march

Oh, sweet turn of phrase there! "Stole a march" is indeed an old idiom that means "gained an unexpected advantage", but working in the word "stole" here was touch of genius.

on the (R)'s & were able to make this a national election conducted primarily via unsolicited mail in ballots, administered under pandemic rationalized rules which were established shortly before the election, in some cases, without the required participation of state legislatures.

And now an outright lie. This issue was adjudicated before multiple state and federal courts, up to and including SCOTUS, and was found to be false.

It was right out of Stacey Abram's playbook & mirrors the DNC strategy contained in Pelosi's HR1. The GOP failed to effectively counter this strategy before & during the election, resulting in insufficient evidence to pursue post-election legal challenges. Epic fail for the GOP.

You mean not enough people voted for them. The "unsolicited" ballots went to all, not just Ds.

If the GOP is to survive as a national party, we will need to find an effective counter strategy if voting via unsolicited mail in ballots becomes the norm rather than the exception. This election, the (D)'s more effectively captured their low propensity voters than the (R)'s did. Do the (R)'s have sufficient untapped low propensity voters to catch up on the increase in turnout made possible via unsolicited mail in ballots. Was the shortfall due to an insufficient pool of untapped low propensity (R) voters, or because of Trump's effort to cast doubt & discourage mail in voting. I suspect the RNC is polling & analyzing to find out.

The shortfall was due to a majority figuring out that having a not-very-useful idiot (in thrall to a vicious dictator waging ruthless cyberwar against us) and criminal grifter as POTUS was a bad idea after all. Who coulda guessed?

At the state level, expect the (R)'s to resist unsolicited mail in ballots & to push for more rigorous maintenance of accurate voter registration rolls & increased election monitoring. This will play out at both state & national levels before the 2022 election. (imho)

Oh yes, the trumpistas will try to further suppress the vote.

Because as McCain and Romney campaign strategist Steve Schmidt has pointed out, there is now only one party in America that believes in democracy.

+1. Another good post/reply. The Republican strategy is the same: reduce the Census count; gerrymander the districts whenever and wherever possible to lock in the voters to whom their candidate will prostrate him- or herself; making voting harder for people of color and "low propensity voters." If everyone votes, the GOP is f*cked.

making voting harder for people of color and "low propensity voters." If everyone votes, the GOP is f*cked.


Very interesting sentiments there coaster. For them to be true you have to accept the premise that people of color are too stupid to exercise their right to vote. What you are insinuating is that a majority of black Americans are too stupid to know how and when to vote. How ignorant and racist of you to propagate such a disgusting ideal. You don't think in the year 2020 that black Americans don't need a FLP peckerhead to reinforce the importance of the black vote. Then you go and insult them by declaring them to be too stupid to understand that they should be concerned about a bunch of liberals who think them to be too stupid to understand how to vote. GOOD JOB there Coaster, your lack of respect for black Americans is pretty pathetic there my friend.

Well, sorry you feel that way. I don't think anyone is "too dumb to vote;" I don't think intelligence has anything to do with who can vote or for whom they vote. You just get to vote if you are a citizen of one of the states of this country. I do think putting one collection box for ballots in a city or region of 4,000,000, at the direction of a Governor or Secretary of State from one party, makes voting arduous -- and it shouldn't be. I think having people vote on Tuesdays makes voting more logistically difficult -- and it shouldn't be. And so on. It isn't about intestinal fortitude. It is about making the vote easily and equally available to all Americans, irrespective of the vote they might cast, or the vote -- more realistically for this discussion -- that you suspect they might cast.

I am not woefully ignorant, anyway, and I am absolutely not racist, and it saddens me that you think I am. I never said anything about anyone being "too stupid to understand how to vote." I'm actually a little astonished you took my concededly partisan comments that way. I just want people to be free to vote. And I don't think that Republicans, in their hearts or hearts, want the same thing.

Coaster, I certainly did not mean to insult you. My response upon further review was very poorly worded. Sometimes I type faster than my brain can think. I don't believe that voters being disenfranchised in large numbers is that big of a problem anymore. The example you stated about that single drop box in Texas was pretty hinky stuff. Things like that are best treated by shining a very bright media spot light on them when they are tried. In an election where a record number of people voted for POTUS it is sort of difficult to argue that voters were suppressed in any significant way. I would make the same point against the republican hard core people saying that the Democrats were stuffing the boxes with absentee ballots. I'm certain there were some attempts by both side to pull of some hinky stuff. I will always believe that any American that wants to vote can and will find a way to do so. When I implied these people were too stupid that was very poorly said on my part. It was a bad attempt at sarcasm which failed miserably.

Thanks for the post and reply; very much appreciated.

[RedFromMI]

Cradle - the Texas single box case is NOT an outlier. In pretty much any part of the country where the Rs have complete power, the barriers to voting have been going up, especially since the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. And the sunshine of exposure does not deter them.

In particular - the preclearance clause being knocked down has allowed much of this to happen, particularly in the South.

[Matnum PI]

Instead? Whoops, I am "coincidently" concerned about these six States----that Trump just "happened" to have lost.

And, similarly, it's only during this election. 4 years ago, I WON!!! This year, FIXED!!! Only now, only the states that Trump lost (that he wanted to win). It cannot be clearer. This is not about fraud. This is about Trump. This is about a man with a Narcissistic Personality Disorder who clinically cannot accept he is not the best at everything.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Cradle - the Texas single box case is NOT an outlier. In pretty much any part of the country where the Rs have complete power, the barriers to voting have been going up, especially since the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. And the sunshine of exposure does not deter them.

In particular - the preclearance clause being knocked down has allowed much of this to happen, particularly in the South.

+1.

[Matnum PI]

More obstructing...
https://www.axios.com/pentagon-biden-tr ... ce=twitter

[foreverlax]

The states I've heard the most complaints about are naturally the close ones -- PA, MI, WI, GA, NV & AZ. In each state the complaints are complex & different.

so what exactly are you concerned about?

[ggait]

Guys -- this is not even close to being debatable any more. Listen to the leading GOP election lawyer Ben Ginsburg:

Nearly every Election Day since 1984 I’ve worked with Republican poll watchers, observers and lawyers to record and litigate any fraud or election irregularities discovered. The truth is that over all those years Republicans found only isolated incidents of fraud. Proof of systematic fraud has become the Loch Ness Monster of the Republican Party. People have spent a lot of time looking for it, but it doesn’t exist.

If you are the minority party, you have to focus on strategies which allow the minority to beat the majority -- gerrymandering, voter suppression, the Electoral College, the U.S. Senate, the Supreme Court. It is a very logical, systematic and comprehensive approach. Because if everyone votes, Republicans lose.

Look at the recent House elections. The GOP is crowing about how awesome they did, flipping multiple seats from blue to red. But the GOP actually LOST the House vote by 3.1% nationally and almost five million votes (77.6 million vs. 72.9 million votes).

Sure it is possible to win a tennis match while losing the majority of the points played. But generally speaking, winning the most points (and getting the most votes) is the most reliable way to win over time.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... publicans/

[ggait]

Check out Pence's pitch in Georgia yesterday.

Sure, that election a few weeks ago was complete fraud and BS. Turrible!!

But for the election happening right now, THIS TIME the election will be totally safe and secure. Because THIS TIME we will be watching.

So MAGAs -- please please please get out and vote. Especially through mail in voting!!

[old salt]

The states I've heard the most complaints about are naturally the close ones -- PA, MI, WI, GA, NV & AZ. In each state the complaints are complex & different.

so what exactly are you concerned about?

Reread the red parts of my reply to afan. Everybody's ignoring the potential impact on down ballot races where fraud & errors can make a difference.

[MDlaxfan76]

The states I've heard the most complaints about are naturally the close ones -- PA, MI, WI, GA, NV & AZ. In each state the complaints are complex & different.

so what exactly are you concerned about?

Reread the red parts of my reply to afan. Everybody's ignoring the potential impact on down ballot races where fraud & errors can make a difference.

Where Republicans won?

[CU77]

Everybody's ignoring the potential impact on down ballot races where fraud & errors can make a difference.

No one is ignoring it, we're saying that you're wrong about it.

Want to convince us? Present some evidence of a race (any race) that was materially impacted by fraud.

[ardilla secreta]

Everybody's ignoring the potential impact on down ballot races where fraud & errors can make a difference.

No one is ignoring it, we're saying that you're wrong about it.

Want to convince us? Present some evidence of a race (any race) that was materially impacted by fraud.

Nice going. You just knocked over his Stratego board to the floor and his Marshal piece just slid under the bunk bed.

[old salt]

Everybody's ignoring the potential impact on down ballot races where fraud & errors can make a difference.

No one is ignoring it, we're saying that you're wrong about it.

Want to convince us? Present some evidence of a race (any race) that was materially impacted by fraud.

Nice going. You just knocked over his Stratego board to the floor and his Marshal piece just slid under the bunk bed.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2015/07/14/ ... ink-again/

https://www.rnla.org/elections_overturned_by_vote_fraud

https://www.heritage.org/election-integ ... oter-fraud
Allan “Twig” Simmons, an operative for the East Chicago, Indiana, mayor’s campaign, persuaded voters to let him fill out their absentee ballots in exchange for jobs. He pleaded guilty and was sentenced to three years of probation and 100 hours of community service. Fraud in the 2003 East Chicago mayoral primary was so widespread that the Indiana Supreme Court ultimately overturned the election results and ordered a special mayoral election that resulted in a different winner.

[Farfromgeneva]

But, but...think about the children.

[ggait]

Election fraud definitely can make an outcome determining difference in local races. You can hijack a race for county commissioner.

Which means that what you can't hijack is a national election or a statewide election.

It is one thing to rob one local branch of First Framers Bank and Trust.

Quite another to hack Fort Knox or the entire Federal Reserve System.

As the GOP's election law expert Ben Ginsburg tells us, systematic voter fraud is the GOP's Loch Ness Monster. People have looked hard for it but have never found it. Because it doesn't exist.

[CU77]

https://www.heritage.org/election-integ ... oter-fraud
Fraud in the 2003 East Chicago mayoral primary was so widespread that the Indiana Supreme Court ultimately overturned the election results and ordered a special mayoral election that resulted in a different winner.

I meant in 2020, not two decades ago.

But even if we ignore that, none of your examples apply, because those frauds were all detected, and so, in the end, had no impact on the election results.

The election-fraud detection system in the US is extremely robust, more so today than ever.

[MDlaxfan76]

https://www.heritage.org/election-integ ... oter-fraud
Fraud in the 2003 East Chicago mayoral primary was so widespread that the Indiana Supreme Court ultimately overturned the election results and ordered a special mayoral election that resulted in a different winner.

I meant in 2020, not two decades ago.

But even if we ignore that, none of your examples apply, because those frauds were all detected, and so, in the end, had no impact on the election results.

The election-fraud detection system in the US is extremely robust, more so today than ever.

And certainly continued investment and consideration of fraud detection is worthwhile, as is punishment of fraudsters...it's the efforts to make voting harder that's not ok.