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Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:24 pm
by runrussellrun
Was Rutgers 17th goal a fast break goal. You cherry pick ONE game from yesterday as being slow..... I guess.
I suggest you watch the Rutgers/St. Johns game........
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:16 pm
Answer the question, what do YOU think a fast break goal is? I gave you a very specific in game scenario, granted from 10 years ago.
How about a fogo clean win forward, is THAT a fb break goal? I want to know what YOU call it?
If you are talking about the goal at Gillette, if memory serves me correctly, I would consider it a fast break but I should look at it again...
EDIT: some may call it unsettled some may call it a fast break. It’s more unsettled as the ball was never cleared. Call it what you want. I can’t argue against someone calling it a fast break
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:36 pm
by runrussellrun
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:16 pm
Answer the question, what do YOU think a fast break goal is? I gave you a very specific in game scenario, granted from 10 years ago.
How about a fogo clean win forward, is THAT a fb break goal? I want to know what YOU call it?
If you are talking about the goal at Gillette, if memory serves me correctly, I would consider it a fast break but I should look at it again.
Cornell clearing, or trying to, the ball never left Cornells defensive half of the field. (btw, the goal should NOT have counted, #10 (Kenney??) landed in the crease after scoring )
I'll help you out.......
ANY unsettled goal is a fast break goal. Off a ride, UFE, etc.
Ball travels THRU X or scored within ten seconds of a FB is considered a slow break.
I classify shots, not really hard to do. Range, on the run, fast break.
ANy fast break shots taken that didn't go in in this young season so far?
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:39 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:36 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:28 pm
runrussellrun wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 12:16 pm
Answer the question, what do YOU think a fast break goal is? I gave you a very specific in game scenario, granted from 10 years ago.
How about a fogo clean win forward, is THAT a fb break goal? I want to know what YOU call it?
If you are talking about the goal at Gillette, if memory serves me correctly, I would consider it a fast break but I should look at it again.
Cornell clearing, or trying to, the ball never left Cornells defensive half of the field. (btw, the goal should NOT have counted, #10 (Kenney??) landed in the crease after scoring )
I'll help you out.......
ANY unsettled goal is a fast break goal. Off a ride, UFE, etc.
Ball travels THRU X or scored within ten seconds of a FB is considered a slow break.
I classify shots, not really hard to do. Range, on the run, fast break.
ANy fast break shots taken that didn't go in in this young season so far?
If you get beat up top at the top of the box or high wing and get a man advantage that’s a “fastbreak” goal also.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:04 pm
by calourie
Discussion seems to be getting down into the weeds a bit. Redirecting back toward the core of the thread, I'll simply comment that I think the shot clock has had a positive effect on my lacrosse viewing pleasure, watching underdogs so far often do well under its' influence. FOGO play has been more intense from my perspective which may end up creating some run away trains such as I assume was created in the PSU-RMU match-up (I haven't seen video or analysis on the game so I am not tuned into whether or not the clock was the issue). We will have to see if the dominant FOGOS will change the equation much, but I've liked liked what I've seen so far with the clock.
As for the dive rule, I haven't seen it come into account much in the games I have been watching. It is pretty clear from my understanding of the rule is it will lead to a bit longer discussion between refs as to whether or not a dive-goal was legal or not, but that, and the old push in the crease or arrive on one's own momentum look like one and the same. I would imagine an unwritten penalty guideline will be to judge how dangerous the whole situation actually looked, and adjudicate (it's a word, I looked it up) in the direction of player safety if possible. Concussions in lax probably won't go over big in the forum of public opinion
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:35 pm
by a fan
calourie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:04 pm
We will have to see if the dominant FOGOS will change the equation much, but I've liked liked what I've seen so far with the clock.
The part that I missed in the offseason was the move from 60-80 seconds. A great move as far as I can tell. Enough time to run a reasonable offense, ever for more patient teams like Denver.
I'm awaiting the defensive adjustments, as I haven't caught a game yet where a team is switching defenses with the eye towards confusing the O. Perhaps it's too soon in the season to expect that.
The thing I'm thrilled about is that the games I watched saw a clear sense of urgency on the attack....they're not messing around, and are attacking immediately.... and that's great. The whole game is more upbeat. Love that.
I did notice that 1/2 of D1 goalies are north of .600 save percentage. Last year, not one single goalie in DI finished above .600. That's a big difference.
The poor clearing I'm seeing confuses me. Riding teams are still running at least 2 middies straight to the box as before. I have no idea why the clearing teams are diddling around, and not immediately attacking the midfield stripe with three extra clearing players. The box has been shortened, for heavens sake. Clearing should be easier, not harder. It's February, though. I'm assuming the better teams will fix this issue.
Overall, I'm really surprised and happy with the changes...and I'm surprised that I'm not seeing the D adjustments I was expecting from better teams. Working out team D will take time, I suppose.
I'm delighted to be wrong so far! If this continues, we'll see the same great lacrosse we were privy to last year.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:51 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
a fan wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:35 pm
calourie wrote: ↑Sun Feb 10, 2019 2:04 pm
We will have to see if the dominant FOGOS will change the equation much, but I've liked liked what I've seen so far with the clock.
The part that I missed in the offseason was the move from 60-80 seconds. A great move as far as I can tell. Enough time to run a reasonable offense, ever for more patient teams like Denver.
I'm awaiting the defensive adjustments, as I haven't caught a game yet where a team is switching defenses with the eye towards confusing the O. Perhaps it's too soon in the season to expect that.
The thing I'm thrilled about is that the games I watched saw a clear sense of urgency on the attack....they're not messing around, and are attacking immediately.... and that's great. The whole game is more upbeat. Love that.
I did notice that 1/2 of D1 goalies are north of .600 save percentage. Last year, not one single goalie in DI finished above .600. That's a big difference.
The poor clearing I'm seeing confuses me. Riding teams are still running at least 2 middies straight to the box as before. I have no idea why the clearing teams are diddling around, and not immediately attacking the midfield stripe with three extra clearing players. The box has been shortened, for heavens sake. Clearing should be easier, not harder. It's February, though. I'm assuming the better teams will fix this issue.
Overall, I'm really surprised and happy with the changes...and I'm surprised that I'm not seeing the D adjustments I was expecting from better teams. Working out team D will take time, I suppose.
I'm delighted to be wrong so far! If this continues, we'll see the same great lacrosse we were privy to last year.
80 seconds is much better. 60 seconds would have been a nightmare. College players are not at the same level of professional players. 60 seconds would have resulted in even more bad shots and dumping in the corner and no more transition offense than you are seeing thus far.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:26 am
by palaxoff
I remember seeing a question about when the shot clock starts on penalties. I saw a D3 scrimmage this weekend, my impression was any flag down was a full 80 second reset Personal or Technical. Saw a couple play on that were a bit confusing. Team A on offense is checked and ball becomes loose, Team B never get control of the ball and gets called for a push. The ref resets the clock. Anyone know if that is the correct call.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 8:53 am
by youthathletics
Early observations:
- I have seen teams settling into zone when they get behind by a few, sometimes just to mix it up
- Offense looks to be poised much faster, if no transistion numbers get the subs in and then attack
- Rides are clearly a point of emphasis, you can see the result of programs that have not worked on riding and clearing
- Goalies appear to be seeing more inside/up and close shots, maybe a result of players attempting to use the dive
- I have seen a handful of failure to advance calls in only a couple witnessed D1 and D3 games
- Goalies working higher up the field on clears
- In one D3 game you could clearly see a team/coach NOT understand a 10-man ride, the goalie chased a player to the box, result = goal
- The players seem to be more mentally alert/focused, which is something I have not yet seen discussed, there is very little time to just chill out.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 10:09 am
by Henpecked
I am sure that teams will adjust to the clock as the season progresses and the weather gets better. The two results that I have witnessed with the new shot clock (although I have yet to see cumulative statistical evidence to support this contention) is more turnovers and more goalie saves.
Some teams dump to the corner for a statistical "team turnover" in order to set up the ride/defense while others force shots that are easily gobbled up by goalies. I guess you have to pick your poison. The corner dump seems like the right choice since the stick side high shot from 15 yards out (while not technically a turnover) has led to a number of fast break goals going the other way.
I would think that over time teams will adjust to playing faster on offense and avoid the corner toss. Towson packed in their zone defense and basically dared Hopkins to shoot from outside. Bad news for Hopkins is that Ryan Brown has been gone for three seasons.
We will see how this shakes out. I'd love to see Lacrosse Analytics do a year-by-year comparison on saves and turnovers after a couple more weeks of data.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 1:04 pm
by palaxoff
I'm a waiting the a stat on clears and rides. I am getting the impression after talking to a D1 and D3 coach that they think the ride/clear game is a more significant factor. The 20 seconds to get it over midfield line and keep it there, seems to be a big point to those coaches.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:44 pm
by youthathletics
A bunch more 10 man and 9 man zone rides. I think the teams that will have the most success are those that forego subbing on the ride. The box is a given, you know where it is and who is going in and out of it. If you play chess, you can get your pieces in place that make subbing problamatic.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Fri Feb 15, 2019 6:02 pm
by johnnyonthegunpowder
One of the things I'm liking about the shot clock is that it offers clear opportunities for the crowd to get into when the home team is on defense.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:51 am
by Voyuer
The DIVE will be history again by next year. The question will be should it be out lawed now in this season. The shot clock is good. After a shot on goal when the O retains possession, the reset should be 60 if under that when shot taken, not 80. Besides that it seems to work well.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 10:55 am
by tech37
Yes... lose the "dive"... adds nothing to the game but unfair attack advantage and potential injury, IMHO.
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:40 am
by stupefied
Get rid of it NOW before someone gets seriously hurt
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:49 am
by DMac
Voyuer wrote
After a shot on goal when the O retains possession, the reset should be 60 if under that when shot taken, not 80. Besides that it seems to work well.
Agree, I actually thought that was the way it was going to be. Wasn't there talk about that in the shot clock discussion prior to its being brought into the game?
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:38 pm
by LAlax
Do you have any idea how expensive it'll be for every team to get new shot clock devices plus having someone know how to set it at 80 vs. 60?
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:20 pm
by Typical Lax Dad
DMac wrote: ↑Mon Feb 25, 2019 11:49 am
Voyuer wrote
After a shot on goal when the O retains possession, the reset should be 60 if under that when shot taken, not 80. Besides that it seems to work well.
Agree, I actually thought that was the way it was going to be. Wasn't there talk about that in the shot clock discussion prior to its being brought into the game?
Wiser minds have prevailed. Have you seen the number of turnovers so far?
Re: How is New Shot Clock and Dive Rule going n Fall Ball
Posted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 1:31 pm
by kramerica.inc
Ditch the dive. Someone is going to get hurt.
Faceoffs look a little better this year. But they still need to outlaw the Moto Grip if they want to level the playing field.