Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[a fan]

Proof is right in front of you. Dismantle the police is not a mainstream black idea. It's a Socialist idea.

I keep trying to tell the right wing of the Water Cooler you're too busy worrying about the libs to apply conservative ideas to fix these problems.

How expensive is a police officer?

Now how much does a social worker cost? Far less, correct?

So what the F are we doing sending armed police officers to anyone who has trouble anywhere? Ask a 911 operator if every call requires someone shows up a the scene with a gun. Nope. Now you've already deescalated some of the ridiculous situations that folks are calling the police for....

And now government is smaller. Yep, I'm sure you can find a few nutjobs who want to remove the police altogether, but what most of the people are talking about is taking government money, and spending it more wisely. That fits PERFECTLY into conservative ideals.

Do we REALLY need to send the calvary every time someone picks of the phone? Think of how we changed our ideas surrounding hi speed chases. Someone figured out that those chases were doing more harm than good-----what the F are we doing sending dozens of high speed cars through our community to chase someone who may have committed a non-violent felony? So they stopped doing it. Smart.

Apply that thinking to our policing, and how and what we spend our tax dollars on.

Perfect little crime for your social worker types. Since no one give two sh*ts about it.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/disabled-vet ... O3NL3dwKF8

Or, don't listen. Keep doing the same things. Whatever works.

[old salt]

Naval Academy Alumni Board Of Trustee Member Resigns After Facebook Ouburst

https://news.usni.org/2020/06/07/naval- ... ok-ouburst

"A member of the U.S. Naval Academy’s influential alumni association’s board of trustees and treasurer of his local alumni chapter was asked to resign Saturday after posting a live conversation to Facebook disparaging the academy’s admission of African Americans, Asian Americans and women.

Retired Capt. Scott Bethmann, USNA class of 1980, may not have realized his comments posted to Facebook Live. In the conversation with his wife, reviewed by USNI News, Bethmann used racial slurs against African Americans and made negative comments regarding the Naval Academy’s admission of African Americans, Asian Americans and women.

Current and former naval officers quickly noticed the comments. Some, apparently commented to his Facebook page while he was still recording, according to his comments.

Caleb Cronic, USNA class of 2011, the Jacksonville chapter president, posted a Facebook message Saturday afternoon stating Bethmann had resigned from his positions on both the local and national associations. Bethmann was also disenrolled from the local Chapter, and Cronic is acting as the interim trustee, he told USNI News."

Of course, Bethman says he's mortified. Stupid is as stupid does as they say.

Nice going Class of '80. Still technically challenged.

[old salt]

The long term issue is ironically easier, imo:

1. STOP SENDING PEOPLE TO PRISON FOR FIRST TIME NON-VIOLENT CRIME (please bear in mind that 'jail' is not 'prison'; jail can be used for anything less than 10 days and will involve tons of non-violent crime).

2. Anyone today in prison for selling weed of any nature to be released and have records expunged.

3. Stop cash bail for any charge that is not violent.

4. Make prosecutors and cops personally liable for any provable offense such as hiding evidence that shows the defendant was innocent.

Not a single one of these things addresses the issue at hand, Pete. The social contract with Black Americans is broken.

Their Civil Rights are not the same as my civil rights. As a result, they're getting harassed and killed by the government that's supposed to protect them.

I reject this premise completely. Which civil rights don't they have? How were their protests treated differently than lock down protests? In fact, Democratic mayors and governors harshly criticized lock down protests and said they were a health hazard. When the George Floyd protests got violent law enforcement did a reasonable job of not responding in kind. Very few peaceful protesters were injured. Looting was tacitly tolerated in some cases, with zero police response. And nobody, politician or media, was complaining about Covid exposure.

George Floyd's death and Blacks in general are being used by the Socialist movement to neuter the government and destroy capitalism. Blacks are constantly told the country is evil. What is evil is dividing people by color and assigning motives to them based on that skin color. The dividing is done because divided people are easier to control.

George Floyd's death was an abomination, but it had to do with an evil cop, not systemic racism in policing or in a group of people of one color. Black Americans might also do well to look inward for change as well as outward. Their crime rates are generally higher, and we can argue the reasons. Single parenthood, poor schools, culture, high rate of abortions. I believe teaching victimhood is a ready excuse to fail. If we want our Black neighbors to feel invested in America we must do a better job of selling success instead of dependence. We must give them the tools to succeed. And we must celebrate their success in everyday endeavors, not just sports and entertainment.

Please don't tell me I want Blacks to be more "white". What I ultimately want is for racial and ethnic groups to maintain their cultural identity within the framework of the American Experiment. It's an experiment because we are constantly rethinking our laws and procedures and making the necessary adjustments as we go. For example, why are police being trained to restrain a person like the way they did to George Floyd? That is ripe for an obvious change.

get it to X...they are NOT trained to do what was done to Floyd. But it wasn't one bad cop, it was 4 bad cops. And the only way we know that is fellow citizens caught them on film.

Yes, it IS systemic.
Yes, it is deeply culturally ingrained racism.
And as one black commentator this morning pointed out, it is also about police against the citizens...the abuse of power also happens against whites, way too often too. Just more disproportionately with blacks, to the point that totally innocent blacks have far more fear of being stopped by police than do whites...and it is rational to be so worried. It is real.

Clearly you haven't been listening to your fellow black Americans. They are not taught "victimhood"...listen to the successful, resourceful people who are forging ahead in the world, yet face these issues every day.

I watched this gal this AM, Olympian, husband served in Air Force, daughter currently serving.

Read her message:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us ... ica-racism

here's clip...I don't think it was posted yet at CNN...https://www.wfmz.com/news/cnn/us-nation ... 86a62.html

Systemic racism? Deeply culturally ingrained racism.

Every year in America 7500 Black men women and children are killed.

93% of them are killed by another Black person. 93%

But I don't hear any calls for a "CONVERSATION" about that.

I thought it was 88%. Where did you find that stat?

And black on black violence is a product of what? A few suggestions: poverty which includes a minimum wage which limits social mobility, the incarceration for non violent offenses of blacks who might otherwise be productive, hard core drug abuse and trafficking which is exacerbated by the previous two conditions, youth gangs the membership to which is exacerbated by the previous three conditions, a dearth of stable family support which is exacerbated by the previous four conditions, a sense on the part of the police, and the occasional vigilante I might add, that it is their job to keep the dispossessed in their rightful place, once again exacerbated by all of the above. All these conditions contribute in creating a lack of educational opportunity that might be helpful as they discourage both teachers and prospective students alike. If we do nothing or very little to disrupt this vicious cycle we will continue to be a society at war with itself in the manner that seems to repeat itself every decade or so with only minimal advancement.

We can do very little to break the cycle when the causes are being celebrated & normalized.

The DC Mayor is being celebrated because she became an adoptive single mother. She'll be able to provide all the best for her child. You can't say the same for her single mom constituents. Putting day care centers in public high schools, for the students' kids, makes sense from a practical stand point, but it enables & encourages self-destructive behavior, & further diminishes the role of black men as fathers in our society. Baby showers are conducted in the class room.

[cradleandshoot]

Proof is right in front of you. Dismantle the police is not a mainstream black idea. It's a Socialist idea.

I keep trying to tell the right wing of the Water Cooler you're too busy worrying about the libs to apply conservative ideas to fix these problems.

How expensive is a police officer?

Now how much does a social worker cost? Far less, correct?

So what the F are we doing sending armed police officers to anyone who has trouble anywhere? Ask a 911 operator if every call requires someone shows up a the scene with a gun. Nope. Now you've already deescalated some of the ridiculous situations that folks are calling the police for....

And now government is smaller. Yep, I'm sure you can find a few nutjobs who want to remove the police altogether, but what most of the people are talking about is taking government money, and spending it more wisely. That fits PERFECTLY into conservative ideals.

Do we REALLY need to send the calvary every time someone picks of the phone? Think of how we changed our ideas surrounding hi speed chases. Someone figured out that those chases were doing more harm than good-----what the F are we doing sending dozens of high speed cars through our community to chase someone who may have committed a non-violent felony? So they stopped doing it. Smart.

Apply that thinking to our policing, and how and what we spend our tax dollars on.

"So what the F are we doing sending armed police officers to anyone who has trouble anywhere? Ask a 911 operator if every call requires someone shows up a the scene with a gun. Nope. Now you've already deescalated some of the ridiculous situations that folks are calling the police for...."

Seriously a Fan. You actually think a 911 operator should determine who responds. It is not very often I would ever say this to you but that is one boneheaded idea. It sounds simple at face value, until the first 911 operator fluffs up the call and the lollypop patrol shows up and gets blown away because 911 made the wrong call. Just for chips and giggles could you define what situations call for the lollypop patrol and what situations require armed police response? You think the 911 operator is qualified to make that decision. I sure as hell don't think so. What the hell, give it a whirl, what could possibly go wrong.

[cradleandshoot]

Ahhhhh, the devil is in the details. The folks in Minneapolis want to re-invent policing. Good luck with that, to do that you have to re-invent criminals as well. I read many people in Minny saying they need to police differently. That would involve retraining every single police officer to new policing standards that nobody can define. It is so simple to say the police need to be a different type of police. It is really complicated how any city can make that happen. Do you ignore all traffic stops because that is profiling? Do you turn your head to all the open air corner drug dealers? Do you just give all low level crime a pass? How do you now handle those truly violent criminals that won't go into custody without a battle royal? How do you redesign policing? There are tactics that need to be refined. What will those new tactics be. The most dangerous call for any police officer is a domestic disturbance. They escalate into extreme violence at the drop of a hat. Anyone out there tell me how you repolice that response, I'm all ears. I would love to know how it is done and keep all parties safe at the same time. Ahhhhh, new policing, sounds nice, everybody loves the concept, nobody really knows how to make it happen and make it work.

Those are the 10,000 questions. Seems the MO now is shoot and ask questions later. Everyone in a position of power is likely scared to death to actually 'really' talk about what it is that can truly be done.

'Baltimore' is a great lesson in what happens when the police are attacked by politicians. They simply stop policing and only show up when the body drops. That way, you don't get sued or thrown under the bus by your mayor/DA/governor. Crime goes up; private businesses hire their own security (look at Johns Hopkins); and businesses abandon any part of town that is even partly suspect.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/ed ... story.html

The merchants at Mondawmin Mall in West Baltimore are apparently fed up after a wave of crime, including an armed robbery of a jewelry store in the middle of the day. Some gave up sales to shutter their doors in protest last week to try to get the attention of city officials and the property’s owners. We hope the red alert worked. Mondawmin Mall is no Harbor East or Rodeo Drive with its hodgepodge of independent sneakers stores and low-priced clothing establishments, but it is an important retail anchor in a part of the city sorely lacking in other amenities. The neglect of the mall is unacceptable and shameful, and not fair to the residents of the surrounding neighborhoods who want a safe place to shop just like everyone else. What shopper in their right mind is going to risk a trip to a mall where armed bandits are running around freely with people milling about? If employees say they fear for their lives, and hired security is scared to do their jobs as merchants contend, how are shoppers supposed to feel?

This whole 'defund the police' scenario is an absolute disaster for Democrats and they know it. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place; the smart ones know exactly what will occur if they 'defund the police', but they also need the votes of the agitators. Look what happened yesterday when Jacob Frey (Jacob Frey! He's on their side for heaven's sake!) refused to say he would 'defund the police'...they mocked and heckled him so he had to leave the street. If they do that to Jacob Frey, imagine what they will do to a half-normal Democrat like Biden who actually does believe in policing effectiveness.

Speak up, board Dems...you're in a pickle here.

Maybe the mayor should bow to public pressure and give them what they demand. I betcha a steak dinner to anyone on this forum it won't work out the way people think. FTR, how the hell do you just "defund" police? Isn't public safety an important part of any state mandate to all of its cities? This would fail in any court of law in about 30 seconds if it was ever tried.

[cradleandshoot]

I can’t blame officers for shooting/tazing someone else first instead of being shot, stabbed or beaten themselves. That’s human nature. But it’s once cops get a read on the situation and realize a person is not a threat, it’s the “serve and protect” part that needs serious work for many cops.

They encounter a ton of people daily that are all the dregs of society, downtrodden or having bad days. I get why cops are on-edge at every traffic stop.

But many see that talking to a cop rarely ends well for the citizen. That’s what has caused normal and good people to act squirrely around police.

No one wants to help or talk to police because as every defense lawyer will tell you, most cops don’t serve anything. Their main function and role is simply to put people in the justice system and let the judge sort it out. They don’t really give a eff about innocence or guilt. They just look for a slight hint of probably cause.

When my nephew was a street cop he had numerous calls for domestic disputes where one person had clearly inflicted physical injury on the other. By the time he arrived at the call both parties had stopped fighting and were acting sane again. You would get the 411 on what had happened and who had done the assaulting. Then it got complicated, the laws says when there are injuries in an altercation the person doing the hitting HAS TO BE ARRESTED. There was no "everything is okay now officer". Skippy or Skippett has to walk out in handcuffs. The officer has no choice in the matter. You can almost guess what happens next. The other person now gets ticked off because they don't want to press charges. It was just a misunderstanding let him or her go. It usually never ends well, especially if there are kids in the house and they get to watch BOTH mommy and daddy handcuffed and going to jail.

If we simply redefine police work, these situations will never happen again. I never realized how simple the solution was all along. There are many things that our police officers are not very good at. How police physically restrain anybody they absolutely have to should become top priority in how all officers are trained. How you accomplish that is easier said than done. I don't know how you develop SOP for each police department. I don't think any 2 encounters that officers have that turn violent are ever the same. I would hazard a guess that putting your freaking knee on a guys neck you already have cuffed is the first stupid tactic you throw out completely. The second thing is that all officers on any arrest should understand and require they are legally obligated to stop any officer using excessive force. The police have to start training their officers to deal with the new challenge of patrolling the streets. The chances of them ever getting the confidence back of the people in many areas they patrol may be almost impossible.

[youthathletics]

Ahhhhh, the devil is in the details. The folks in Minneapolis want to re-invent policing. Good luck with that, to do that you have to re-invent criminals as well. I read many people in Minny saying they need to police differently. That would involve retraining every single police officer to new policing standards that nobody can define. It is so simple to say the police need to be a different type of police. It is really complicated how any city can make that happen. Do you ignore all traffic stops because that is profiling? Do you turn your head to all the open air corner drug dealers? Do you just give all low level crime a pass? How do you now handle those truly violent criminals that won't go into custody without a battle royal? How do you redesign policing? There are tactics that need to be refined. What will those new tactics be. The most dangerous call for any police officer is a domestic disturbance. They escalate into extreme violence at the drop of a hat. Anyone out there tell me how you repolice that response, I'm all ears. I would love to know how it is done and keep all parties safe at the same time. Ahhhhh, new policing, sounds nice, everybody loves the concept, nobody really knows how to make it happen and make it work.

Those are the 10,000 questions. Seems the MO now is shoot and ask questions later. Everyone in a position of power is likely scared to death to actually 'really' talk about what it is that can truly be done.

'Baltimore' is a great lesson in what happens when the police are attacked by politicians. They simply stop policing and only show up when the body drops. That way, you don't get sued or thrown under the bus by your mayor/DA/governor. Crime goes up; private businesses hire their own security (look at Johns Hopkins); and businesses abandon any part of town that is even partly suspect.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/ed ... story.html

The merchants at Mondawmin Mall in West Baltimore are apparently fed up after a wave of crime, including an armed robbery of a jewelry store in the middle of the day. Some gave up sales to shutter their doors in protest last week to try to get the attention of city officials and the property’s owners. We hope the red alert worked. Mondawmin Mall is no Harbor East or Rodeo Drive with its hodgepodge of independent sneakers stores and low-priced clothing establishments, but it is an important retail anchor in a part of the city sorely lacking in other amenities. The neglect of the mall is unacceptable and shameful, and not fair to the residents of the surrounding neighborhoods who want a safe place to shop just like everyone else. What shopper in their right mind is going to risk a trip to a mall where armed bandits are running around freely with people milling about? If employees say they fear for their lives, and hired security is scared to do their jobs as merchants contend, how are shoppers supposed to feel?

This whole 'defund the police' scenario is an absolute disaster for Democrats and they know it. They are stuck between a rock and a hard place; the smart ones know exactly what will occur if they 'defund the police', but they also need the votes of the agitators. Look what happened yesterday when Jacob Frey (Jacob Frey! He's on their side for heaven's sake!) refused to say he would 'defund the police'...they mocked and heckled him so he had to leave the street. If they do that to Jacob Frey, imagine what they will do to a half-normal Democrat like Biden who actually does believe in policing effectiveness.

Speak up, board Dems...you're in a pickle here.

Maybe the mayor should bow to public pressure and give them what they demand. I betcha a steak dinner to anyone on this forum it won't work out the way people think. FTR, how the hell do you just "defund" police? Isn't public safety an important part of any state mandate to all of its cities? This would fail in any court of law in about 30 seconds if it was ever tried.

Funny.....the left has been clamoring to get rid of guns, fighting to do away with the 2nd amendment and then, if you are in trouble, to call the authorities....and now they want to defund those same authorities and limit their capabilities.

I can hear it now....

Citizen: Hello, 911, I think someone is breaking into my home
911 Operator: Be calm, take 4 yoga breaths and curl into a ball under your bed
Citizen: please send help I think I hear them
911: Yes I hear them also. I want you to shout as loud as you can and scare them away
Citizen: You want me to do whaaaaat? Please send help!
911: I am sorry, you do not need us, you just need to throw a brick at them or a Molotov cocktail, those always seem to work. Do you have a gun?
Citizen: Heavens no.
911: Would you like one?
Citizen: Yes, please send a police office.
911: I am sorry, they are all performing crowd control and we are short staffed. Call us back in an hour if things get worse, maybe the crowd of protesters with thin out and we' can get someone over there. I can send over a therapist if you'd like to talk to someone?
Citizen: If I get out of this I will certainly buy a gun and never vote democrat again
911: sounds like a great idea, that 's what I did and I never looked back. I was tired of them bastids lying and BS'ing me all the time. All they ever do is pander to get your vote, then handout cash like a crack dealer to get you hooked.
Citizen: Never mind....it was just my 1 of 12 cats and knocked over my aloe plant into my hydroponic stevia garden. Thank you so much. I am now going to eat raw sugar, drink some Jack Daniels and eat a hamburger.....medium rare. Thanks for waking me up.
911: My pleasure, welcome to the 1st day of your new life.

[Peter Brown]

The long term issue is ironically easier, imo:

1. STOP SENDING PEOPLE TO PRISON FOR FIRST TIME NON-VIOLENT CRIME (please bear in mind that 'jail' is not 'prison'; jail can be used for anything less than 10 days and will involve tons of non-violent crime).

2. Anyone today in prison for selling weed of any nature to be released and have records expunged.

3. Stop cash bail for any charge that is not violent.

4. Make prosecutors and cops personally liable for any provable offense such as hiding evidence that shows the defendant was innocent.

Not a single one of these things addresses the issue at hand, Pete. The social contract with Black Americans is broken.

Their Civil Rights are not the same as my civil rights. As a result, they're getting harassed and killed by the government that's supposed to protect them.

I reject this premise completely. Which civil rights don't they have? How were their protests treated differently than lock down protests? In fact, Democratic mayors and governors harshly criticized lock down protests and said they were a health hazard. When the George Floyd protests got violent law enforcement did a reasonable job of not responding in kind. Very few peaceful protesters were injured. Looting was tacitly tolerated in some cases, with zero police response. And nobody, politician or media, was complaining about Covid exposure.

George Floyd's death and Blacks in general are being used by the Socialist movement to neuter the government and destroy capitalism. Blacks are constantly told the country is evil. What is evil is dividing people by color and assigning motives to them based on that skin color. The dividing is done because divided people are easier to control.

George Floyd's death was an abomination, but it had to do with an evil cop, not systemic racism in policing or in a group of people of one color. Black Americans might also do well to look inward for change as well as outward. Their crime rates are generally higher, and we can argue the reasons. Single parenthood, poor schools, culture, high rate of abortions. I believe teaching victimhood is a ready excuse to fail. If we want our Black neighbors to feel invested in America we must do a better job of selling success instead of dependence. We must give them the tools to succeed. And we must celebrate their success in everyday endeavors, not just sports and entertainment.

Please don't tell me I want Blacks to be more "white". What I ultimately want is for racial and ethnic groups to maintain their cultural identity within the framework of the American Experiment. It's an experiment because we are constantly rethinking our laws and procedures and making the necessary adjustments as we go. For example, why are police being trained to restrain a person like the way they did to George Floyd? That is ripe for an obvious change.

get it to X...they are NOT trained to do what was done to Floyd. But it wasn't one bad cop, it was 4 bad cops. And the only way we know that is fellow citizens caught them on film.

Yes, it IS systemic.
Yes, it is deeply culturally ingrained racism.
And as one black commentator this morning pointed out, it is also about police against the citizens...the abuse of power also happens against whites, way too often too. Just more disproportionately with blacks, to the point that totally innocent blacks have far more fear of being stopped by police than do whites...and it is rational to be so worried. It is real.

Clearly you haven't been listening to your fellow black Americans. They are not taught "victimhood"...listen to the successful, resourceful people who are forging ahead in the world, yet face these issues every day.

I watched this gal this AM, Olympian, husband served in Air Force, daughter currently serving.

Read her message:

https://www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us ... ica-racism

here's clip...I don't think it was posted yet at CNN...https://www.wfmz.com/news/cnn/us-nation ... 86a62.html

So says you. You have no idea what is in the average police officer's head. Probably number one is "Am I going home tonight?" You act like the neighborhoods in West Baltimore are safe and the only bad guys are the cops. You face that misery every day and tell me you wouldn't be at least be a little cynical. Tim Scott R-SC, an African American Senator, says we need a strong presence of character driven police. Not less police, just better police. Do you remember the ethnic make up of the officers charged in the Freddie Gray case? Three blacks and three whites. Which of those is a systemic, culturally ingrained racist? In my opinion, there are very few actual racists, who I define as someone who feels their race is superior. I've met a few of them and they are actually an argument against a their own self perception of supremacy. "Racist" is a cry used by progressives to stifle debate and avoid dealing with actual truths.

Leave your door unlocked tonight. Put a gun free zone sign on your front lawn. And don't call 911 for the Rapid Racist Response team if things get dicey. And when the cops do show up, be sure to tell each one individually that you know without doubt that he/she is a racist. You may get a few hard lessons in the truth, but it won't be from the cops. They will probably just shake their heads at your benightedness.

+1.

This was an excellent post

[Peter Brown]

Crime is about to be legal in Minneapolis. Veto proof majority of city council to vote to disband the police department. I feel so bad for Minnesotans. You are effed. Buy guns and ammo. You’re on your own.

https://theappeal.org/minneapolis-city- ... ic-safety/

[a fan]

Can't see the massive opportunity for conservative governance, can ya, Pete? Too bad.

Chicago Sun Times Editorial Board understood my exact point with zero trouble.

Police union contracts in many American cities, including Chicago, have become a threat to community safety by shielding abusive police officers. They just gotta go.

As police unions have spread across the nation over the last half-century, they have secured provisions in collective bargaining agreements that protect their members from answering to the public, or even to elected officials. Many contracts make it virtually impossible for police departments to punish rogue officers.




How much do you want to bet that you'll see the same *hitshow of a contract with the Police Union in Minneapolis?




https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/6/7/2 ... jXWmoMv2Tg

[RedFromMI]

How about this poll on establishing a first response that is non-police where you don't need a full police response:

[a fan]

Seriously a Fan. You actually think a 911 operator should determine who responds. It is not very often I would ever say this to you but that is one boneheaded idea. It sounds simple at face value, until the first 911 operator fluffs up the call and the lollypop patrol shows up and gets blown away because 911 made the wrong call. Just for chips and giggles could you define what situations call for the lollypop patrol and what situations require armed police response? You think the 911 operator is qualified to make that decision. I sure as hell don't think so. What the hell, give it a whirl, what could possibly go wrong.

No. I'm saying, there are MANY different ways to change our current system. Right now? Anytime anyone anywhere has any kind of problem? They call in armed people to the situation. Every time. No exceptions. What kind of neanderthal, thoughtless system is that?

Perfect example? The Central Park Karen. Do you think she should have called 911 here? Guns were needed in this situation? Really? Her ONLY option here is to send pricey armed people to resolve the situation? What if we give her more options? Smaller government. Lower taxes.




I can tell you our OSHA Emergency Handbook has several numbers for employees to call, depending on the situation.

1/4 to 1/2 of a large city budget is blown on policing. You're SURE there isn't a wiser use of our money?

[RedFromMI]

On the issue of police forces and unions:

https://www.governing.com/topics/public ... tment.html

This happened several years ago - city of Camden, NJ "disbands" its unionized police force, and reconstitutes a non-union force run by the county in its place.

Per officer costs dropped to nearly half what they were which allowed for the hiring of a LOT of new officers, whose number previously were minimized anyway due to budget cuts.

Not perfect - but it is an example of thinking outside the normal box.

Additional link: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... department

[a fan]

Per officer costs dropped to nearly half what they were which allowed for the hiring of a LOT of new officers, whose number previously were minimized anyway due to budget cuts.

Shhhhh. Don't tell Pete and other Republicans on the board who don't want to hear about the massive opportunity sitting in front of them and their Republican party to not only help fix these obvious problems, but follow conservative principles while fixing said problems.

[Peter Brown]

Per officer costs dropped to nearly half what they were which allowed for the hiring of a LOT of new officers, whose number previously were minimized anyway due to budget cuts.

Shhhhh. Don't tell Pete and other Republicans on the board who don't want to hear about the massive opportunity sitting in front of them and their Republican party to not only help fix these obvious problems, but follow conservative principles while fixing said problems.

You’re being played so hard. Yes that’s what it’s about, cost savings. Lol.

Meanwhile another cop gets shot and killed today in Santa Cruz CA. Wheres the thread on Sgt Damon Gutzwiller here? I can’t find it. I do see on Twitter tons of lefties cheering.

You guys need to start an insurance underwriter for commercial real estate in Minneapolis. I hear Chubb ain’t renewing any policies. Seems like an opportunity! Profits await you.

[RedFromMI]

Per officer costs dropped to nearly half what they were which allowed for the hiring of a LOT of new officers, whose number previously were minimized anyway due to budget cuts.

Shhhhh. Don't tell Pete and other Republicans on the board who don't want to hear about the massive opportunity sitting in front of them and their Republican party to not only help fix these obvious problems, but follow conservative principles while fixing said problems.

You’re being played so hard. Yes that’s what it’s about, cost savings. Lol.

Meanwhile another cop gets shot and killed today in Santa Cruz CA. Wheres the thread on Sgt Damon Gutzwiller here? I can’t find it. I do see on Twitter tons of lefties cheering.

You guys need to start an insurance underwriter for commercial real estate in Minneapolis. I hear Chubb ain’t renewing any policies. Seems like an opportunity! Profits await you.

You are not actually contributing to the conversation.

How about this: https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ating-link

[Peter Brown]

Per officer costs dropped to nearly half what they were which allowed for the hiring of a LOT of new officers, whose number previously were minimized anyway due to budget cuts.

Shhhhh. Don't tell Pete and other Republicans on the board who don't want to hear about the massive opportunity sitting in front of them and their Republican party to not only help fix these obvious problems, but follow conservative principles while fixing said problems.

You’re being played so hard. Yes that’s what it’s about, cost savings. Lol.

Meanwhile another cop gets shot and killed today in Santa Cruz CA. Wheres the thread on Sgt Damon Gutzwiller here? I can’t find it. I do see on Twitter tons of lefties cheering.

You guys need to start an insurance underwriter for commercial real estate in Minneapolis. I hear Chubb ain’t renewing any policies. Seems like an opportunity! Profits await you.

You are not actually contributing to the conversation.

How about this: https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ating-link

I was reliably informed that this was all about social justice and peaceful protests.

[RedFromMI]

Per officer costs dropped to nearly half what they were which allowed for the hiring of a LOT of new officers, whose number previously were minimized anyway due to budget cuts.

Shhhhh. Don't tell Pete and other Republicans on the board who don't want to hear about the massive opportunity sitting in front of them and their Republican party to not only help fix these obvious problems, but follow conservative principles while fixing said problems.

You’re being played so hard. Yes that’s what it’s about, cost savings. Lol.

Meanwhile another cop gets shot and killed today in Santa Cruz CA. Wheres the thread on Sgt Damon Gutzwiller here? I can’t find it. I do see on Twitter tons of lefties cheering.

You guys need to start an insurance underwriter for commercial real estate in Minneapolis. I hear Chubb ain’t renewing any policies. Seems like an opportunity! Profits await you.

You are not actually contributing to the conversation.

How about this: https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... ating-link

I was reliably informed that this was all about social justice and peaceful protests.

Did you read the LA Times article - the guy arrested is military, and he had explosives in his car when arrested? There are some very weird aspects to this one.

[a fan]

You’re being played so hard. Yes that’s what it’s about, cost savings. Lol.

It can be about that, in part, if you'd pull your head out and get some air, Pete.

What could Trump and the Republicans in Congress do-----right now----to facilitate the dismantling of these Union-run police departments, AND get costs to come down? AND get voters to consider the Republican party after the Dems in Minneapolis clearly have their heads up their ****es?

Think Pete. Shut up about "the libs are bad" for five minutes, and think for a change. Surely you have something else to say other than Dems are bad.

[holmes435]

Kudos to the few willing to stand up for what's right when their group goes the other way.