Taliban reclaims Afghanistan

[Farfromgeneva]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

[cradleandshoot]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

[MDlaxfan76]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

I think he's referring to a hip hop song reference to the Oklahoma City bombing by right wing nut job Timothy McVeigh.

Response to the part I bolded. We have a serious domestic terrorist issue this current decade, actually greater than foreign terrorism, though both are darn serious.

[old salt]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

[cradleandshoot]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

I think he's referring to a hip hop song reference to the Oklahoma City bombing by right wing nut job Timothy McVeigh.

Response to the part I bolded. We have a serious domestic terrorist issue this current decade, actually greater than foreign terrorism, though both are darn serious.

You think I didn't know that? One thing I have learned on this forum is how some folks are anal retentive about things like grammar and spelling. When I read it I had to chuckle at the tiny oversite. At least to the best of my knowledge nobody has blown up Oklahoma yet.

[cradleandshoot]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Did the Iranians ever thank us for the helos? Did we take them off the tab when BHO paid the Iranians their ransom? What was the going rate for 2 H-53s back in the day?

[Kismet]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Bluebeard 6 had rotor alarm issues enroute and was abandoned in the desert a few hundred miles from the rendezvous site where 5 more helos were abandoned or destroyed in the collision on the ground

Also interesting to note that participating USN F-14 Tomcat, VA82 Marauder, A-6E Intruder, F-4N Phantom II and Marine A-7E Corsair II Attack Squadrons had to add colored striping markings on their wings to distinguish them as American (as the Iranians used the same aircraft previously purchased by the Shah).

As OS' article rightly pointed out - this is what you get when political considerations dictate military action rather than conditions on the ground/theater.

[Farfromgeneva]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

I think he's referring to a hip hop song reference to the Oklahoma City bombing by right wing nut job Timothy McVeigh.

Response to the part I bolded. We have a serious domestic terrorist issue this current decade, actually greater than foreign terrorism, though both are darn serious.

Correct, I was framing the specific lyric as it is copied below. Song is called Free Mumia by KRS One

I don’t subscribe to all of this but some of it is poignant and it was from 1995

Why sure! Back before we were born they sold us out
Yeah Dade Jackson we know what you about
Youse a Slave Mason, not a Free Mason
Before long the Goddess Tiamat through hip-hop you'll be facin
Don't start me, cause I be the, lyricist
At the nineteen ninety-nine millennium party held at Giza
Sayin he's a, fraud, oh my Goddess
Never in your life should you disrespect an artist
Instead, focus your attention on astronomy
And the up and coming, shift in the economy
If you can't do that, then heed the final call
To free Mumia, Abu-Jamal
Hate to be so rough, it could be the White Owls
House niggaz are full of crap, like my Colin Powell
Kickin vowels, is how we relieve the tension
Until we start to bounce white people like suspension (revolution)
You paint the pictures, the black man on the corner
But tell me, who blew up Oklahoma?
The City, ain't no pity, for the beast
It's Hakim that voice from the East
Warner, Elektra, Atlantic equals WEA
Instead of fighting them why don't you go free Mumia
(repeat 2X)
Buck buck! Buck buck buck!
It sound like gunshots but it could be the plot
Of a chicken, definition, is what you're missin and
Listen to your children instead of dissin em
Senator Dole doesn't understand the young people
Like they be sayin want to, but we be sayin want to
They gettin dumber every summer as they walk the rope
Maybe because they cannot understand the quotes
Word, in actuality, this Norman Bates mentality
Always seems to represent, minus three-sixty percent
For degrees full circle, dead from the purple
Rays of the sun I gots melanin so check it
Bag your nuts quick or get sick from being naked
Suspect it, was it a means for the end
For just a few to drive the Benz while you eat the pigskins
Turned you into mannequins, cause the trick of technology
A revelation, revelations
Sensation gives me inspiration of revolution
That's my solution, there will be no sequels
I'm Audi hundred forty four thousand with my people
From Caligula to Hitler, now it's Schwartzeneggar
A lust for the violence is the science of their behavior
Who enslaved ya (it's the Devil) but the God of virtuosity
And of the world created, could it be mental sodomy
Got my mind twisted like the blades of fonta leaf
I sit in disbelief as he crawls underneath
The rock cock back the glock, cause I don't trust
The Devil I rebel until Babylon is dust
Warner, Elektra, Atlantic equals WEA
Instead of fighting them why don't you go free Mumia
(repeat 2X)

[cradleandshoot]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Bluebeard 6 had rotor alarm issues enroute and was abandoned in the desert a few hundred miles from the rendezvous site where 5 more helos were abandoned or destroyed in the collision on the ground

Also interesting to note that participating USN F-14 Tomcat, VA82 Marauder, A-6E Intruder, F-4N Phantom II and Marine A-7E Corsair II Attack Squadrons had to add colored striping markings on their wings to distinguish them as American (as the Iranians used the same aircraft previously purchased by the Shah).

As OS' article rightly pointed out - this is what you get when political considerations dictate military action rather than conditions on the ground/theater.

Our military tried a similar rescue at Son Tay. Meticulously planned operation from a technical sense. Too bad the camp was abandoned. Jimmy Carter made a tough decision. It was always an operation that had a very low probability of success. President Carter made the right decision. I will never criticize President Carter for trying to rescue our people. Most people don't know that from a technical sense, the intricate plans for operation overlord were a complete disaster. Very few of our plans worked the way they were designed. The fact the Germans were more confused than our forces were and Rommel was not there and Hitler never believed it was the actual invasion was dumb luck on our part. If the Germans had committed their reserves d day would have been a disaster. So often these complex operations always come down to dumb luck. That is something you can't plan for.

[MDlaxfan76]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

I think he's referring to a hip hop song reference to the Oklahoma City bombing by right wing nut job Timothy McVeigh.

Response to the part I bolded. We have a serious domestic terrorist issue this current decade, actually greater than foreign terrorism, though both are darn serious.

You think I didn't know that? One thing I have learned on this forum is how some folks are anal retentive about things like grammar and spelling. When I read it I had to chuckle at the tiny oversite. At least to the best of my knowledge nobody has blown up Oklahoma yet.

hip hop

[cradleandshoot]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

I think he's referring to a hip hop song reference to the Oklahoma City bombing by right wing nut job Timothy McVeigh.

Response to the part I bolded. We have a serious domestic terrorist issue this current decade, actually greater than foreign terrorism, though both are darn serious.

You think I didn't know that? One thing I have learned on this forum is how some folks are anal retentive about things like grammar and spelling. When I read it I had to chuckle at the tiny oversite. At least to the best of my knowledge nobody has blown up Oklahoma yet.

hip hop

In my world that is what the bunny rabbits in my back yard do. They love my wife's lettuce.

[MDlaxfan76]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Understood...my only point is that military spending was nevertheless a ton of $, but how it was prioritized to be spent evidently didn't meet the actual needs of the moment.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/histo ... lspend.htm

Defense spending as a percentage of GDP actually went up during the Carter years versus late Nixon/Ford.

[Farfromgeneva]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

I think he's referring to a hip hop song reference to the Oklahoma City bombing by right wing nut job Timothy McVeigh.

Response to the part I bolded. We have a serious domestic terrorist issue this current decade, actually greater than foreign terrorism, though both are darn serious.

You think I didn't know that? One thing I have learned on this forum is how some folks are anal retentive about things like grammar and spelling. When I read it I had to chuckle at the tiny oversite. At least to the best of my knowledge nobody has blown up Oklahoma yet.

hip hop

Yea for many, like poetry, it’s a function of cadence.

[Farfromgeneva]

+1
Today should indeed be a day of remembrance and reflection.
Quite a few us lost friends or family that day.

Today is a day to remember and reflect. It also should be a day to assure all Americans that it will never again. I don't know if that is the case anymore. Bad people with bad intentions still want to kill as many Americans as possible.

That's been true for a very long time; was reflecting on Lockerbie this evening with my wife, who lost 2 HBS classmates, Bain colleagues/friends on that flight. Not actually that long ago from our perspective. Know their families.

And it's surely going to be the case as long as the US continues to claim it's "exceptional" status in the world (which I believe is true)...but, moreover as an excuse to bomb other countries, exploit other countries' labor and natural resources. We put that target on ourselves.

I don't expect the latter aspects to really change much in my lifetime. So, the question is how best to balance the interests. How do we do more good in the world, while serving our own economic interests as well, and when do we take action to interdict potential threats militarily...tough questions. The balance will never be perfect, however it's definitely worth wrestling on an ongoing basis.

But risk isn't going to go away. Not while we remain a major superpower with very specific characteristics that are anathema to other human beings.

Who blew up Oklahoma? (A line from A hip hop song about scrutiny of blacks)

I must have missed that. When was Oklahoma blown up? How do you blow up a whole state and keep it on the downlow? How did the media overlook that news flash?

I think he's referring to a hip hop song reference to the Oklahoma City bombing by right wing nut job Timothy McVeigh.

Response to the part I bolded. We have a serious domestic terrorist issue this current decade, actually greater than foreign terrorism, though both are darn serious.

You think I didn't know that? One thing I have learned on this forum is how some folks are anal retentive about things like grammar and spelling. When I read it I had to chuckle at the tiny oversite. At least to the best of my knowledge nobody has blown up Oklahoma yet.

hip hop

In my world that is what the bunny rabbits in my back yard do. They love my wife's lettuce.

Yeah those bunnies and their theft!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kBJDz4ylQO0

[old salt]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Understood...my only point is that military spending was nevertheless a ton of $, but how it was prioritized to be spent evidently didn't meet the actual needs of the moment.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/histo ... lspend.htm

Defense spending as a percentage of GDP actually went up during the Carter years versus late Nixon/Ford.

Look at spending compared to the height of the Vietman war. D spending in the Carter years was down compared to before & after, at a time when things were worn out from Vietnam & becoming obsolete, & we were switching to an all volunteer force which cost more.

In 79 or 80, Carter's SecDef was booed when he came to address the squadrons & test center engineers & flight crews at Pax River.
The hangar's were filled with cannibalized hangar queens, In SD in '75-77 we were taking components off of up aircraft, driving them to LAX, shipping them comml air to our Dets in WPac, circumventing an empty supply chain. The military really was hollowed out.

[MDlaxfan76]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Understood...my only point is that military spending was nevertheless a ton of $, but how it was prioritized to be spent evidently didn't meet the actual needs of the moment.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/histo ... lspend.htm

Defense spending as a percentage of GDP actually went up during the Carter years versus late Nixon/Ford.

Look at spending compared to the height of the Vietman war. D spending in the Carter years was down compared to before & after, at a time when things were worn out from Vietnam & becoming obsolete, & we were switching to an all volunteer force which cost more.

In 79 or 80, Carter's SecDef was booed when he came to address the squadrons & test center engineers & flight crews at Pax River.
The hangar's were filled with cannibalized hangar queens, In SD in '75-77 we were taking components off of up aircraft, driving them to LAX, shipping them comml air to our Dets in WPac, circumventing an empty supply chain. The military really was hollowed out.

Obviously spending was higher as a % of GDP during Vietnam at full speed, height of war..we weren't dropping nearly as many bombs, losing aircraft and men anymore...but then spending dropped (but still large) under Nixon/Ford...actually went up as % during Carter years.

I'm not debating that the prioritization of that spending was correctly apportioned, but let's not pretend that there weren't lots and lots of dollars to prioritize.

I'm also not surprised the Sec Def would have been unpopular with those crew, etc. I would think the same would be true of his predecessor under Ford. Or should have been given the "hollowing out" that occurred during those years.

I very much doubt that the decision not to spend adequately on spare parts was one made in the Oval Office, at least not explicitly. I'd be looking at the overall military industrial complex decision and prioritization processes to look for that.

[old salt]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Understood...my only point is that military spending was nevertheless a ton of $, but how it was prioritized to be spent evidently didn't meet the actual needs of the moment.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/histo ... lspend.htm

Defense spending as a percentage of GDP actually went up during the Carter years versus late Nixon/Ford.

Look at spending compared to the height of the Vietman war. D spending in the Carter years was down compared to before & after, at a time when things were worn out from Vietnam & becoming obsolete, & we were switching to an all volunteer force which cost more.

In 79 or 80, Carter's SecDef was booed when he came to address the squadrons & test center engineers & flight crews at Pax River.
The hangar's were filled with cannibalized hangar queens, In SD in '75-77 we were taking components off of up aircraft, driving them to LAX, shipping them comml air to our Dets in WPac, circumventing an empty supply chain. The military really was hollowed out.

Obviously spending was higher as a % of GDP during Vietnam at full speed, height of war..we weren't dropping nearly as many bombs, losing aircraft and men anymore...but then spending dropped (but still large) under Nixon/Ford...actually went up as % during Carter years.

I'm not debating that the prioritization of that spending was correctly apportioned, but let's not pretend that there weren't lots and lots of dollars to prioritize.

I'm also not surprised the Sec Def would have been unpopular with those crew, etc. I would think the same would be true of his predecessor under Ford. Or should have been given the "hollowing out" that occurred during those years.

I very much doubt that the decision not to spend adequately on spare parts was one made in the Oval Office, at least not explicitly. I'd be looking at the overall military industrial complex decision and prioritization processes to look for that.

% of GDP is a dodge. It was a time of inflation. Prices & pay were increasing while dollars available, year to year, were going down. Energy prices rose sharply.

[Farfromgeneva]

How many Helos did we leave in the desert in 1979?

7 of 8. The one that had problems on the way in, turned around & made it back to the ship.
https://photorecon.net/bluebeard-5/

Regarding spare parts, 2 of the 8 were not flown during workups & were cannibalized as hangar queens to keep the other 6 flying.
The lack of spare parts at that time made cannibalization widespread & degraded readiness & training throughout naval aviation.

This left an entire minesweeping squadron with no aircraft at a time when the Iranians were mining the Persian Gulf.
2 of the abandonded H-53's were not destroyed & were put into service by the Iranians who also operated the H-53.

Understood...my only point is that military spending was nevertheless a ton of $, but how it was prioritized to be spent evidently didn't meet the actual needs of the moment.

http://academic.brooklyn.cuny.edu/histo ... lspend.htm

Defense spending as a percentage of GDP actually went up during the Carter years versus late Nixon/Ford.

Look at spending compared to the height of the Vietman war. D spending in the Carter years was down compared to before & after, at a time when things were worn out from Vietnam & becoming obsolete, & we were switching to an all volunteer force which cost more.

In 79 or 80, Carter's SecDef was booed when he came to address the squadrons & test center engineers & flight crews at Pax River.
The hangar's were filled with cannibalized hangar queens, In SD in '75-77 we were taking components off of up aircraft, driving them to LAX, shipping them comml air to our Dets in WPac, circumventing an empty supply chain. The military really was hollowed out.

Obviously spending was higher as a % of GDP during Vietnam at full speed, height of war..we weren't dropping nearly as many bombs, losing aircraft and men anymore...but then spending dropped (but still large) under Nixon/Ford...actually went up as % during Carter years.

I'm not debating that the prioritization of that spending was correctly apportioned, but let's not pretend that there weren't lots and lots of dollars to prioritize.

I'm also not surprised the Sec Def would have been unpopular with those crew, etc. I would think the same would be true of his predecessor under Ford. Or should have been given the "hollowing out" that occurred during those years.

I very much doubt that the decision not to spend adequately on spare parts was one made in the Oval Office, at least not explicitly. I'd be looking at the overall military industrial complex decision and prioritization processes to look for that.

% of GDP is a dodge. It was a time of inflation. Prices & pay were increasing while dollars available, year to year, were going down. Energy prices rose sharply.

You sure that’s how the math works?

[Farfromgeneva]

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... -data.html

[Farfromgeneva]

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/cpi.pdf