LaxPower Back-Up Stick

molo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:33 pm Time was UVA was heavy on LI and Baltimore but not so much anymore.

wahoomurf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:51 pm The Duke roster looks like the CHSAA all-star team.Lars has only 2 from the league.Corrigan mines that rich vein of CHSAA talent as well as Danowski does.

While I certainly can't question the quality of his recruits,I do wish Lars would elbow J.D. out of the way a bit more up here on L.I.!

molo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 9:03 pm Certainly have had some great Philly area players as Philly has surpassed Baltimore as a hotbed.

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:49 am but let's not write off Baltimore...

HooDat wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:49 pm

MDlaxfan76 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:49 am but let's not write off Baltimore...

Do they even play lacrosse in Baltimore anymore?

molo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:14 pm Does the MIAA still produce some good DI lax players? Sure. Is it the epicenter of hs lacrosse? No. Thus is just the opinion of one MSA grad and son of an MSA coach. For those not steeped in the history of Maryland hs lax, the MSA was the predecessor of the MIAA. It included both private schools and what current private school students call the “pubs.”

wahoomurf wrote: ↑Tue Apr 04, 2023 4:51 pm The Duke roster looks like the CHSAA all-star team.Lars has only 2 from the league.Corrigan mines that rich vein of CHSAA talent as well as Danowski does.

While I certainly can't question the quality of his recruits,I do wish Lars would elbow J.D. out of the way a bit more up here on L.I.!

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:44 pm You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:10 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:44 pm You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

sounds like you're throwing down the gauntlet on someone (you?) counting up the aa's.

last 3 years?

10stone5 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 2:07 pm Conrad,

someone should clone that guy.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:02 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:10 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:44 pm You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

sounds like you're throwing down the gauntlet on someone (you?) counting up the aa's.

last 3 years?

I did last year's AA winners + this year's "midseason" IL honorees. If you want more data than that you're gonna have to take the baton.

Baltimore is ahead of Philly, but both are dwarfed by Long Island.

Long Island: 34
Ontario: 20
Baltimore: 18
New Jersey: 16
Philly: 13
DC/NoVa: 10
Other: 64

I lumped Upstate/western/Westchester NY, Connecticut, and Mass into "other" — I believe all would have been below DC/NoVa if counted independently. The remainder of other was comprised of guys primarily from the midwest, Colorado, California, and Oregon, with some Texas and Florida sprinkled in.

The MIAA definitely had more AA representation than any other single HS conference in the country.

I counted southern NJ (Zach Cole) under the NJ column, rather than Philly, but if you go the other way then Philly gains two and NJ loses two from the above totals.

By state, New York would be #1, followed by Maryland. It's close between Pennsylvania and NJ for #3. Connecticut and Massachusetts would follow.

My guess would be the farther back you go, the worse it'd look for Philly vis a vis Baltimore so the last year and half might be the best it gets for the ol city of brotherly love.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 5:02 pm

wgdsr wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 4:10 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 3:44 pm You can debate what "epicenter" means in this context but if you're going to make it a competition between Baltimore and Philly specifically, there is very little evidence to suggest Philly has "surpassed" Baltimore as a hotbed. There are still more D1 recruits from the greater Baltimore area than there are from Philly. Total number of recruits, number of All-American caliber players, it's not close. I also think the MIAA remains a much deeper conference than anything you see in the Philly suburbs (after Malvern Prep and Haverford, it thins out pretty quick IMO). You'd have to reach pretty far to come up with some measure that backs Philly supplanting Baltimore as a lacrosse hotbed. In fact based on the quality of its top players lately I'd say Long Island gives Baltimore a lot more of a run for its money than Philly does. Possibly Ontario too if you get to count Canada-born players who eventually go to play at U.S. high schools (Lawrenceville, Culver, Salisbury, Brunswick, etc.)

sounds like you're throwing down the gauntlet on someone (you?) counting up the aa's.

last 3 years?

I did last year's AA winners + this year's "midseason" IL honorees. If you want more data than that you're gonna have to take the baton.

Baltimore is ahead of Philly, but both are dwarfed by Long Island.

Long Island: 34
Ontario: 20
Baltimore: 18
New Jersey: 16
Philly: 13
DC/NoVa: 10
Other: 64

I lumped Upstate/western/Westchester NY, Connecticut, and Mass into "other" — I believe all would have been below DC/NoVa if counted independently. The remainder of other was comprised of guys primarily from the midwest, Colorado, California, and Oregon, with some Texas and Florida sprinkled in.

The MIAA definitely had more AA representation than any other single HS conference in the country.

I counted southern NJ (Zach Cole) under the NJ column, rather than Philly, but if you go the other way then Philly gains two and NJ loses two from the above totals.

By state, New York would be #1, followed by Maryland. It's close between Pennsylvania and NJ for #3. Connecticut and Massachusetts would follow.

My guess would be the farther back you go, the worse it'd look for Philly vis a vis Baltimore so the last year and half might be the best it gets for the ol city of brotherly love.

random observer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:10 pm The MIAA is a great league but everyone outside of Baltimore knows that it's not what it once was. Even with the top schools all rushing to build boarding programs and pull in elite kids from other hotbeds to maintain their edge, by and large the league is losing more OOC games to other top programs than it wins. It's extended to the college landscape too; the MIAA is highly represented in recent recruiting rankings, but beyond Brandau I'm struggling to think of any offensive player from the MIAA this year who is pushing elite status.

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:44 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:10 pm The MIAA is a great league but everyone outside of Baltimore knows that it's not what it once was. Even with the top schools all rushing to build boarding programs and pull in elite kids from other hotbeds to maintain their edge, by and large the league is losing more OOC games to other top programs than it wins. It's extended to the college landscape too; the MIAA is highly represented in recent recruiting rankings, but beyond Brandau I'm struggling to think of any offensive player from the MIAA this year who is pushing elite status.

Well when you've accounted for two of the last three Tewaaraton winners maybe you need a year to replenish the offensive cupboard. You've got Sunderland and Dom Petro (injured) as freshmen this year, then Millon (whose younger brother is going to be a top '25) coming next year and Ford the year after that. If any of those guys live up to their top 5 billings then it won't be long.

I don't disagree that the MIAA isn't what it used to be. But the origin of this conversation came from the idea that Baltimore has somehow fallen behind Philly as a hotbed. Don't think that's true. It's still producing a ton of high-end college talent even if the game has grown and it's no longer the one and only center of the lax universe.

random observer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 9:18 pm

HopFan16 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 8:44 pm

random observer wrote: ↑Wed Apr 05, 2023 7:10 pm The MIAA is a great league but everyone outside of Baltimore knows that it's not what it once was. Even with the top schools all rushing to build boarding programs and pull in elite kids from other hotbeds to maintain their edge, by and large the league is losing more OOC games to other top programs than it wins. It's extended to the college landscape too; the MIAA is highly represented in recent recruiting rankings, but beyond Brandau I'm struggling to think of any offensive player from the MIAA this year who is pushing elite status.

Well when you've accounted for two of the last three Tewaaraton winners maybe you need a year to replenish the offensive cupboard. You've got Sunderland and Dom Petro (injured) as freshmen this year, then Millon (whose younger brother is going to be a top '25) coming next year and Ford the year after that. If any of those guys live up to their top 5 billings then it won't be long.

I don't disagree that the MIAA isn't what it used to be. But the origin of this conversation came from the idea that Baltimore has somehow fallen behind Philly as a hotbed. Don't think that's true. It's still producing a ton of high-end college talent even if the game has grown and it's no longer the one and only center of the lax universe.

I mostly agree on the last point. Philly is punching above its weight but at this point, but definitely still behind Baltimore. However there are two big caveats:
1. MIAA is bringing in lots of transfers from out of the area to bolster their "hotbed" status. It creates the appearance of a larger gap than is actually there as a hotbed, and I'd argue in the long run boarding could even hurt local development in Baltimore.

2. The Philly area has a really good depth of talent relative to other areas in the classes that are just starting to hit the high school level. Whether this is a trend or an occasional spike remains to be seen.

Sunderland is off to a solid start, but far too early to tell if he'll ever be an AA let alone Tewaarton candidate; I know UVA is stacked, but truly elite guys force their way to the front of the gameplan early on (case in point: UVA teammate Connor Shellenberger).

Petro/Millon/Ford obviously we will have to wait and see, but I have some minor to not-so-minor doubts about all of them. Particularly Ford, who IMO is just not athletic enough to ever be an elite college player; I feel fairly confident he will not be a "teamer" AA.

As for Tewaarton awards, congrats to Wisnauskas And Spencer, both worthy winners. But Spencer won it four years ago now; if we're going back that far to reflect on the MIAA's merits, then that's kind of in line with my point about the trajectory of the MIAA.