Religion in America

[njbill]

If you would just read Two Corinthians, you'd find all the answers.

Here you go:

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/ ... -walk-bar/

Oh, was that not it?

I did see that. From the link, I was hoping to find a joke ("two corinthians walk into a bar"), but it was a pretty good read nonetheless. That's our president, a leading biblical scholar.

[youthathletics]

Why do partisan digs always have to hijac threads.

[jhu72]

Episcopalians went through something similar about the same things about 8-10 years ago. A local church lost a ton of parish members during a change.

Yup, I grew up Episcopalian, went to a fancy pants Episcopal boarding school a few decades ago that was very inclusive. It was nice to be a part of a community that was welcoming to so many (women and gays alike, radical at the time). Seemed a little more Christ-like in its approach. This approach overall apparently rankled a minority of the church. Most of us just want a good community church where religion is more of a personal matter without heavy dogma while providing charity outreach and service to those less fortunate than us alongside a good environment for bringing up our kids.

I moved to a neighborhood about 7 years ago with an Episcopal church within walking distance, but after attending a service found out they had broken off. I was surprised they were still using the "Episcopal" label when most of the breakaway churches had moved to some sort of Anglican label. Unsurprising the average age of the membership seemed 60+ and they were super excited to see a younger family in for a service.

Churches of every denomination are losing members, but some are finding ways to reach out to today's youth and younger parents by simply emphasizing Jesus' teachings vs. "Bible dogma". Unfortunately the main thriving churches around here in coastal VA seem to be these big mega-churches pushing things like Prosperity Theology with thousands of members. But there are still some old churches (some of the first in the country from the early 1600s) that are doing ok while being more progressive than those mega churches.

Turns out simple things like loving thy neighbor as thyself, helping the poor, healing the sick and more actually resonate with the culture of today.

Frankly I think churches would do a lot better if they behaved more like community centers and emphasized Jesus the philosopher and gave up on the son of god angle and all the dogma. The world would be a lot better for it.

Great post Holmes; much appreciated.

My wife and I raised our kids Unitarian/Universalist because of three things: (1) we thought it was a good idea to expose the kids to a church organization and some type of religiosity; (2) we wanted to engage with a church that didn't necessarily -- and I mean doctrinally necessary -- to deify JC and believe in the Trinitarian construct; and (3) we wanted what amounted to a social justice organization to be their place of worship/spiritual home. As '72 sort of suggests, then, we were looking for a philosophy and we actually got a lot out of the relationship, in community, in action, in thinking about the plights of others, etc. The [unruly] self-governing Congregation includes Christians (in the Trinitarian and Unitarian senses), Buddhists, Humanists, and folks looking for some free coffee and danishes after hearing some thoughtful-talk. The membership and attendance numbers are, I think, pretty healthy for a town and catchment area of our size. People seem to like the (maybe very) progressive take on at least the hope, charity and love part.

For the record, I hung around for the free cuppa and danishes.

Looks like you found something similar to the situation I described.

[seacoaster]

Why do partisan digs always have to hijac threads.

My bad. Sorry. The thread is in "Politics," so I posted an article -- a little tongue in cheek -- relating to Trump's obviously faux-spirituality.

[njbill]

When you sign up for FanLax or LaxPower, you have to click a box that says you promise to hijack a thread at least three times a year.

[jhu72]

When you sign up for FanLax or LaxPower, you have to click a box that says you promise to hijack a thread at least three times a year.

Only 3. Hopkins fans it is 20.

[youthathletics]

Why do partisan digs always have to hijac threads.

My bad. Sorry. The thread is in "Politics," so I posted an article -- a little tongue in cheek -- relating to Trump's obviously faux-spirituality.

Not pointing any fingers...just an observations. BTW, It was not you seacoaster

[Matnum PI]

RELIGION: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

In an age where a strong knowledge of Social Sciences is all but universal, isn't most every social structure in America a "religion". Obviously we don't all get together to worship G-d's one and only son, Lyle Thompson. But in terms of being an organized group with shared beliefs, shared perspectives, etc., is being a UVA Football fan really so different than being a member of a specific Methodist church? I understand that most social structures don't include a deity but... Is that really, for all intents and purposes, what makes a religion a religion? i.e. Yes, people may (or may not be) walking away from innumerable organized religions. But when they stop going to their church from 10 AM - Noon on Sundays and, instead, they go rock climbing religiously during the same hours, it's not like the person instantaneously no longer has humane values. i.e. Rock climbers also have values, also have a credo, also have a (religious) structure. No?

[MDlaxfan76]

Why do partisan digs always have to hijac threads.

My bad. Sorry. The thread is in "Politics," so I posted an article -- a little tongue in cheek -- relating to Trump's obviously faux-spirituality.

Seems to me that this thread "Religion in America" is in the Politics section, not the General Chatter section...so, perhaps we should expect a discussion of religion in the public square?

That was my intent in posting the links to Robert Jones' work.
Worth reading, considering implications.

[admin]

I can move this thread to "General Chatter" if post-ers would prefer. Does seem to make sense. Just say the word...

[MDlaxfan76]

RELIGION: a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

In an age where a strong knowledge of Social Sciences is all but universal, isn't most every social structure in America a "religion". Obviously we don't all get together to worship G-d's one and only son, Lyle Thompson. But in terms of being an organized group with shared beliefs, shared perspectives, etc., is being a UVA Football fan really so different than being a member of a specific Methodist church? I understand that most social structures don't include a deity but... Is that really, for all intents and purposes, what makes a religion a religion? i.e. Yes, people may (or may not be) walking away from innumerable organized religions. But when they stop going to their church from 10 AM - Noon on Sundays and, instead, they go rock climbing religiously during the same hours, it's not like the person instantaneously no longer has humane values. i.e. Rock climbers also have values, also have a credo, also have a (religious) structure. No?

re Lyle Thompson

Interesting question, however I don't think your examples meet any of the definitions of a "religion":


noun: religion
the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.
or
a particular system of faith and worship.

or from wikipedia:
Religion is a social-cultural system of designated behaviors and practices, morals, worldviews, texts, sanctified places, prophecies, ethics, or organizations, that relates humanity to supernatural, transcendental, or spiritual elements.

or dictionary.com:

noun
a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects:
the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices:
a world council of religions.
the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.:
to enter religion.
the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience:
to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

[MDlaxfan76]

I can move this thread to "General Chatter" if post-ers would prefer. Does seem to make sense. Just say the word...

Unless it gets nasty interpersonally, seems to me that the Religion in America certainly has an overlap with politics and ok here.
Doubt it would get the attention in General Chatter.

I do think we ought to at least try to discuss this sort of thing with respect.

[jhu72]

I can move this thread to "General Chatter" if post-ers would prefer. Does seem to make sense. Just say the word...

When I started the thread I considered that and decided it likely belonged here. It is not like religion is not all tied up in politics today.

[admin]

Then Politics it is...

[seacoaster]

I can move this thread to "General Chatter" if post-ers would prefer. Does seem to make sense. Just say the word...

When I started the thread I considered that and decided it likely belonged here. It is not like religion is not all tied up in politics today.

Concur. Let's leave it here for now. We can talk about the Establishment Clause -- it'll be like a party with your relatives around the holidays, only all the time.

[seacoaster]

So here goes:

You all may know that George Conway and several other conservative, GOP Never-Trumpers have started the Lincoln Project. Today, that organization is airing a video about the evangelical right's attachment to the President. And today, Billy Graham's granddaughter endorsed the video, or at least the sentiments underlying it:

https://twitter.com/jerushahruth/status ... 6117557255

The point to me is this: politics soils religion, when religion is mixed with the crude earth and sausage-making and deals cut in the name of consensus that is politics. Trump seems to me, of course, to the be the dirtiest form of this, and the most obvious cheapening and hollowing-out of religion I've seen in my lifetime of observing the oft-crossed Rubicon of religion and politics.

Fox has published some stuff about the Lincoln Project video, saying that the organization mocks evangelicals.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-t ... -church-ad

I don't think that's the Project's point, focus or intention.

[LandM]

Born and raised Catholic. In high school and college a Saint Christopher were in both cleats. Going out the door, I always said an Our Father. and Hail Mary. When in Canandaigua I take my neighbor who had a stroke to mass as he cannot drive. Two weeks ago, he called and said no more mass as he did not believe in the Catholic teaching. I struggle with the same teachings but can ignore that and hope the church comes up to speed on what is going on. Holmes IMHO said it best, take care of your neighbor, the poor and be an honest and fair person. Last Man Standing starts tonight - whatever the politics it is funny to me.

I got two txt's from former teammates. Son's decided to follow in the old men footsteps. Both were headed to Baghdad yesterday morning and then our now on stand-by. Those kids, not to be a tough guy - are not trained in kiddy games - hopefully everyone sleeps well tonight.

[jhu72]

So here goes:

You all may know that George Conway and several other conservative, GOP Never-Trumpers have started the Lincoln Project. Today, that organization is airing a video about the evangelical right's attachment to the President. And today, Billy Graham's granddaughter endorsed the video, or at least the sentiments underlying it:

https://twitter.com/jerushahruth/status ... 6117557255

The point to me is this: politics soils religion, when religion is mixed with the crude earth and sausage-making and deals cut in the name of consensus that is politics. Trump seems to me, of course, to the be the dirtiest form of this, and the most obvious cheapening and hollowing-out of religion I've seen in my lifetime of observing the oft-crossed Rubicon of religion and politics.

Fox has published some stuff about the Lincoln Project video, saying that the organization mocks evangelicals.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/anti-t ... -church-ad

I don't think that's the Project's point, focus or intention.

I am not sure that you don't have it backwards, … religion soils politics. In either case, the mixture causes more problems than either by themselves.

[Matnum PI]

Interesting question, however I don't think your examples meet any of the definitions of a "religion"

Agreed and... What's the difference? Practically, what's the difference between Chasidim in Williamsburg and Coeds at Sarah Lawrence. We're born into social groups and then, throughout life, we choose social groups and, whether it's a Methodist church in Lexington, KY or a Country Club in Darien, practically, what's the difference?

As for religion in politics, it is what it is. Politics are gross so I expect this nonsense. But, for me, politics in religion elicits a very different response. I was listening to a religious leader give a talk a couple of days ago and he referred to Pharoah (of Egypt) as open-minded. "And, like most open-minded people, he was actually extremely close-minded. He pretended to be interested in all perspectives but, in reality, everything had to be as he thought things should be. etc." This struck me as a good example of politics in religion and... I hate it. I love books, love movies, love stories, love reading, love learning from all of the above, and... I've looked pretty closely at the text and I do not see anywhere anything that speaks to Pharoah being open-minded. Maybe it's just me but it seemed like this rabbi recognized that Pharoah was the bad guy so, why not make him a left-wing, liberal? But, again, maybe it's just me.

[Bart]

Frankly I think churches would do a lot better if they behaved more like community centers and emphasized Jesus the philosopher and gave up on the son of god angle and all the dogma. The world would be a lot better for it.

But isn't that the deal with faith? With out the son of god angle you are just a community center.......are you not?