All Things Environment

[holmes435]

This is so petty of me but I can't help myself when it comes to this one topic.

Hello ski season!


https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2 ... 095107002/

And? Thanks for proving the point that we're seeing more extreme weather patterns.

[Peter Brown]

This is so petty of me but I can't help myself when it comes to this one topic.

Hello ski season!


https://www.coloradoan.com/story/news/2 ... 095107002/

And? Thanks for proving the point that we're seeing more extreme weather patterns.

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

[holmes435]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

[runrussellrun]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

[youthathletics]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

Wonder why our 25 year old beachfront property in South Carolina hasn't had any issues...except of course during hurricane season? Seems my study of 25 years via my eyes, drinking beers on the beach, and walking around should be quite suitable...no spreadsheet or data sets needed.

[jhu72]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

Wonder why our 25 year old beachfront property in South Carolina hasn't had any issues...except of course during hurricane season? Seems my study of 25 years via my eyes, drinking beers on the beach, and walking around should be quite suitable...no spreadsheet or data sets needed.

Ocean rise over last 25 years has been 3 inches. That's an average. Could you tell if the ocean rose by 3 inches. I doubt most people could without very determined effort. Tributaries are easier.

[Peter Brown]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

Wonder why our 25 year old beachfront property in South Carolina hasn't had any issues...except of course during hurricane season? Seems my study of 25 years via my eyes, drinking beers on the beach, and walking around should be quite suitable...no spreadsheet or data sets needed.

Ocean rise over last 25 years has been 3 inches. That's an average. Could you tell if the ocean rose by 3 inches. I doubt most people could without very determined effort. Tributaries are easier.

The true meaning of jhu72's post:

lyingeyes.jpg (29.1 KiB) Viewed 1906 times

[MDlaxfan76]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

Wonder why our 25 year old beachfront property in South Carolina hasn't had any issues...except of course during hurricane season? Seems my study of 25 years via my eyes, drinking beers on the beach, and walking around should be quite suitable...no spreadsheet or data sets needed.

Ocean rise over last 25 years has been 3 inches. That's an average. Could you tell if the ocean rose by 3 inches. I doubt most people could without very determined effort. Tributaries are easier.

The true meaning of jhu72's post:



lyingeyes.jpg

And yours translates to "ignore the data, listen to the idiots who tell you what to think"

[cradleandshoot]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

Wonder why our 25 year old beachfront property in South Carolina hasn't had any issues...except of course during hurricane season? Seems my study of 25 years via my eyes, drinking beers on the beach, and walking around should be quite suitable...no spreadsheet or data sets needed.

Ocean rise over last 25 years has been 3 inches. That's an average. Could you tell if the ocean rose by 3 inches. I doubt most people could without very determined effort. Tributaries are easier.

The true meaning of jhu72's post:



lyingeyes.jpg

And yours translates to "ignore the data, listen to the idiots who tell you what to think"

Sadly MD you are now coming across as one of the idiots who are trying to tell me what to think. When you can explain to me what the hell it is we are trying to prevent. Cancel that... that means a War and Peace diatribe from you that you are so very famous for. I forget that when you are conversing with a republican of some sort, what is the point? Maybe Mittens has time in his busy schedule for you to shine his shoes? You know how you moderates roll. Hey MD... is there a Hall of Fame out there for popular moderates? In my world a moderate is a person without the intestinal fortitude to have an opinion based in a core set of values. You are the folks that wet your finger, stick it up into the wind and determine what it is you believe. So in your simple minded republican world... we can stop what planet earth will do.

[cradleandshoot]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

Wonder why our 25 year old beachfront property in South Carolina hasn't had any issues...except of course during hurricane season? Seems my study of 25 years via my eyes, drinking beers on the beach, and walking around should be quite suitable...no spreadsheet or data sets needed.

Ocean rise over last 25 years has been 3 inches. That's an average. Could you tell if the ocean rose by 3 inches. I doubt most people could without very determined effort. Tributaries are easier.

The true meaning of jhu72's post:



lyingeyes.jpg

+1 PB the more you piss off the environmental extremists the better the chance more people will understand they are being lied to. I call it the Silly Putty Syndrome. Where the extremists can mold an opinion into whatever they need it to be.

[Peter Brown]

+1 PB the more you tick off the environmental extremists the better the chance more people will understand they are being lied to. I call it the Silly Putty Syndrome. Where the extremists can mold an opinion into whatever they need it to be.

I feel about this debate like I do about most matters: it's complicated. Some are truly and passionately defending the environment (I myself am a passionate open spaces citizen), but they are being used by others who truly wish to upend the economic system that made us great. My guess (after all I am no scientist) is the whole argument is much ado about nothing in the end. I trust the earth; it is a great cleansing machine, a great equalizer. Just when you think we are doomed, the earth recalibrates and makes your arguments irrelevant.

We will all ski and enjoy the winters much as we have always done, with zero interruption caused by GW. And all the alarmism will in a few hundred years be laughed at by our future relatives as they shiver in cold temperatures.

[holmes435]

+1 PB the more you tick off the environmental extremists the better the chance more people will understand they are being lied to. I call it the Silly Putty Syndrome. Where the extremists can mold an opinion into whatever they need it to be.

I feel about this debate like I do about most matters: it's complicated. Some are truly and passionately defending the environment (I myself am a passionate open spaces citizen), but they are being used by others who truly wish to upend the economic system that made us great. My guess (after all I am no scientist) is the whole argument is much ado about nothing in the end. I trust the earth; it is a great cleansing machine, a great equalizer. Just when you think we are doomed, the earth recalibrates and makes your arguments irrelevant.

We will all ski and enjoy the winters much as we have always done, with zero interruption caused by GW. And all the alarmism will in a few hundred years be laughed at by our future relatives as they shiver in cold temperatures.

You say it's complicated, then you spout out that it's simple and one-sided after a long-winded speech about not much. You just don't come across the way you might think you do. It's kind of sad.

No one in any upcoming election is going to be able to upend our economic system in the US. That argument just doesn't fly, so explain it or stop, it's just not helping you out.

Us as humans are killing off an amazing number of species who will not be able to laugh at us in a few hundred years.

[foreverlax]

In my world a moderate is a person without the intestinal fortitude to have an opinion based in a core set of values.

Your view of 80% the population is not the least bit surprising. Too bad for you.

[Peter Brown]

+1 PB the more you tick off the environmental extremists the better the chance more people will understand they are being lied to. I call it the Silly Putty Syndrome. Where the extremists can mold an opinion into whatever they need it to be.

I feel about this debate like I do about most matters: it's complicated. Some are truly and passionately defending the environment (I myself am a passionate open spaces citizen), but they are being used by others who truly wish to upend the economic system that made us great. My guess (after all I am no scientist) is the whole argument is much ado about nothing in the end. I trust the earth; it is a great cleansing machine, a great equalizer. Just when you think we are doomed, the earth recalibrates and makes your arguments irrelevant.

We will all ski and enjoy the winters much as we have always done, with zero interruption caused by GW. And all the alarmism will in a few hundred years be laughed at by our future relatives as they shiver in cold temperatures.

You say it's complicated, then you spout out that it's simple and one-sided after a long-winded speech about not much. You just don't come across the way you might think you do. It's kind of sad.

No one in any upcoming election is going to be able to upend our economic system in the US. That argument just doesn't fly, so explain it or stop, it's just not helping you out.

Us as humans are killing off an amazing number of species who will not be able to laugh at us in a few hundred years.

I do not think my positions are at odds with one another. The 'environment' is in fact quite complicated when we are in the weeds. When we step back, it's quite simple. The earth works fine. Nothing that man can do will upset earth's natural instinct to rebalance itself. As to our own species, we want to be mindful of clean air and clean water and open spaces. That doesn't require usurious taxation; it takes public awareness and pressure.

You can fret all you want about CC/GW, and I have no doubt your intentions are pure. Some of your fellow travelers' intentions are not so pure.

And btw, species dying off should not be something to disturb you beyond perhaps sadness; species die off because evolution never stops; those species were never destined to continue nor thrive. Man does not choose evolution's winners; nature does. What god takes, he gives. Something else better conditioned takes the loser's spot. This is true in sports and life.

[MDlaxfan76]

Wait a minute...aren't the glaciers melting and polar bears dying and we need to abandon beachfront houses because rising sea levels? I can not keep on top of the changing rules here.

The rules haven't changed, but I am sorry if you can't keep up. The "it's cold so global warming isn't real" schtick is at least a decade old and has been explained ad infinitum.

And yes the glaciers are melting and polar bears are dying and my neighbors are jacking their houses up on stilts and putting removable flood walls in front of their doors and garages.

Because Chittenden Resovoir floods..................................

Wonder why our 25 year old beachfront property in South Carolina hasn't had any issues...except of course during hurricane season? Seems my study of 25 years via my eyes, drinking beers on the beach, and walking around should be quite suitable...no spreadsheet or data sets needed.

Ocean rise over last 25 years has been 3 inches. That's an average. Could you tell if the ocean rose by 3 inches. I doubt most people could without very determined effort. Tributaries are easier.

The true meaning of jhu72's post:



lyingeyes.jpg

And yours translates to "ignore the data, listen to the idiots who tell you what to think"

Sadly MD you are now coming across as one of the idiots who are trying to tell me what to think. When you can explain to me what the hell it is we are trying to prevent. Cancel that... that means a War and Peace diatribe from you that you are so very famous for. I forget that when you are conversing with a republican of some sort, what is the point? Maybe Mittens has time in his busy schedule for you to shine his shoes? You know how you moderates roll. Hey MD... is there a Hall of Fame out there for popular moderates? In my world a moderate is a person without the intestinal fortitude to have an opinion based in a core set of values. You are the folks that wet your finger, stick it up into the wind and determine what it is you believe. So in your simple minded republican world... we can stop what planet earth will do.

Was I addressing you, cradle?
But ok, you don't like "moderates", particularly Republican moderates.
Nor people who prefer data over wishful thinking.

[MDlaxfan76]

+1 PB the more you tick off the environmental extremists the better the chance more people will understand they are being lied to. I call it the Silly Putty Syndrome. Where the extremists can mold an opinion into whatever they need it to be.

I feel about this debate like I do about most matters: it's complicated. Some are truly and passionately defending the environment (I myself am a passionate open spaces citizen), but they are being used by others who truly wish to upend the economic system that made us great. My guess (after all I am no scientist) is the whole argument is much ado about nothing in the end. I trust the earth; it is a great cleansing machine, a great equalizer. Just when you think we are doomed, the earth recalibrates and makes your arguments irrelevant.

We will all ski and enjoy the winters much as we have always done, with zero interruption caused by GW. And all the alarmism will in a few hundred years be laughed at by our future relatives as they shiver in cold temperatures.

You say it's complicated, then you spout out that it's simple and one-sided after a long-winded speech about not much. You just don't come across the way you might think you do. It's kind of sad.

No one in any upcoming election is going to be able to upend our economic system in the US. That argument just doesn't fly, so explain it or stop, it's just not helping you out.

Us as humans are killing off an amazing number of species who will not be able to laugh at us in a few hundred years.

I do not think my positions are at odds with one another. The 'environment' is in fact quite complicated when we are in the weeds. When we step back, it's quite simple. The earth works fine. Nothing that man can do will upset earth's natural instinct to rebalance itself. As to our own species, we want to be mindful of clean air and clean water and open spaces. That doesn't require usurious taxation; it takes public awareness and pressure.

You can fret all you want about CC/GW, and I have no doubt your intentions are pure. Some of your fellow travelers' intentions are not so pure.

And btw, species dying off should not be something to disturb you beyond perhaps sadness; species die off because evolution never stops; those species were never destined to continue nor thrive. Man does not choose evolution's winners; nature does. What god takes, he gives. Something else better conditioned takes the loser's spot. This is true in sports and life.

PB,
If the data supported this notion that the "Earth is just fine", we'd chill out with you.

And, hey, maybe you're correct that there still would be some wing nuts that just want to crush capitalism. There've always been some of those types, just as there's always been some 'flat-earth' types who wish to deny science and data.

To dismiss the impact of the rapid spread of mankind on the Earth is simply arrogant and foolish.
Measure it, study it, take care to be responsible stewards of the blessings we've been granted.

If that means we need to find ways to mitigate or reverse a particular impact, figure out how to do that most efficiently, considering all other impacts.
Measure and study, take care.

That goes for the immense waste going into the sea and into landfills, pollution in the air, destruction of habitats necessary for many species, or climate change impacts. Whatever impacts mankind's enormous spread across the globe has or may have, pay attention, address them.

Whether you believe in God or not, we are blessed with the capacity to think, to create, and to consider moral responsibility.
Use these blessings.

[Peter Brown]

|

PB,
If the data supported this notion that the "Earth is just fine", we'd chill out with you.

And, hey, maybe you're correct that there still would be some wing nuts that just want to crush capitalism. There've always been some of those types, just as there's always been some 'flat-earth' types who wish to deny science and data.

To dismiss the impact of the rapid spread of mankind on the Earth is simply arrogant and foolish.
Measure it, study it, take care to be responsible stewards of the blessings we've been granted.

If that means we need to find ways to mitigate or reverse a particular impact, figure out how to do that most efficiently, considering all other impacts.
Measure and study, take care.

That goes for the immense waste going into the sea and into landfills, pollution in the air, destruction of habitats necessary for many species, or climate change impacts. Whatever impacts mankind's enormous spread across the globe has or may have, pay attention, address them.

Whether you believe in God or not, we are blessed with the capacity to think, to create, and to consider moral responsibility.
Use these blessings.

I'm an optimist; I certainly don't worry about the future; the future for my kids and their kids will be significantly better than I had it, and my life has been significantly better than my grandparents. I've never missed a winter of killer skiing and I never will in spite of the CC/GW crowd's fervent desire that I do.

if you truly like data, you should look at global poverty rates over the last 50 years, infectious disease deaths over the last 50 years, at overall quality of life issues just for yourself in your own lifetime (trust me your car today is way safer than when you were born, same with aviation). Heck, just go into the deeper weeds and look at the diapers industry...I kid but I don't: diaper technology today is 100x better and less expensive than 50 years ago! Your grandkids appreciate advancements even if you don't.

Might I suggest an author and climatologist of some renown called Judith Curry? You might learn what actual CC/GW nuance is.

GW/CC began as a cause , next became a movement and is fast becoming a racket. The racket looks like this . Several trillion dollars of CO2 abatement monies sloshing around : one third goes to bureaucrats and academics and pols that design and advise and manage the programs ; one third sticks to the kleptocrat third world nations in the UN who will loot 'compensation' monies for their lost growth and other troubles (it ends in Swiss banks, who become huge buyers of dollar/swiss repo contracts enabling doofus' like me to borrow money at rates far lower than I should, so thanks, I guess); and one third will be used for harebrained schemes that will have no effect on anything but the bottom lines and pockets of the cronies who "Do Something!!!" (think AOC favored companies and non-profits littering Brooklyn and Queens).

YOU.ARE.BEING.USED.

[jhu72]

What amuses me to no end is the deniers never ever argue (successfully) the merits of their case based on science. It is always some diversion or an appeal to magic fields and fairy dust. Failing that, in the ended it is always some imputed characteristic they assign to the climate researchers. In the best tradition of know nothings they assign their own failings to these researchers. It is always the same.

[MDlaxfan76]

PB,
Curry at least is in the right ball park of being a former scientist.
Hurricane specialist.

However, any scientist who says she won't publish in peer reviewed journals, loses me, period, end of story.

[RedFromMI]

Some more on Curry:

https://skepticalscience.com/skeptic_Judith_Curry.htm