Trump's Russian Collusion

[old salt]

Yeah. They all do it. Yada yada yada.
If that's the case, Horowitz & Durham will give them a clean bill of health.

Impossible.

Horowitz & Durham would have to investigate ALL----or at the very least, a healthy chuck of---- FISA warrants in order to understand what the standard of behavior is for petitioning for a warrant. That would take years, not months.

Turning over every rock on a handful of warrants is easy. Doing the same with dozens of warrants takes more time and manpower than they were given.

Not true. All they need to do is show/prove how FISA was politically abused by the Obama admin, and based on those revelations regulate or legislate new guidelines to safeguard against any reoccurrence.

He's already starting the " they all did it " excuse making & defense.

[cradleandshoot]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congre ... n-n1035051.. Ya gotta love Mr Staples. I only wonder which of them croaks first... Trump or Nadler. In my perfect world they both assume room temperature on the same day. If they can co-ordinate this with Andy, then NYS becomes a better place to live in overnight. The perfect trifecta. I know... mean spirited but if you are a hard working average shlub trying to get ahead in Upstate NY... the Siberia of NYS... you understand what it is all about.

[Trinity]

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/meet-t ... a-n1034931

What happened to Republican Outrage about Russia?

[a fan]

Yeah. They all do it. Yada yada yada.
If that's the case, Horowitz & Durham will give them a clean bill of health.

Impossible.

Horowitz & Durham would have to investigate ALL----or at the very least, a healthy chuck of---- FISA warrants in order to understand what the standard of behavior is for petitioning for a warrant. That would take years, not months.

Turning over every rock on a handful of warrants is easy. Doing the same with dozens of warrants takes more time and manpower than they were given.

Not true. All they need to do is show/prove how FISA was politically abused by the Obama admin, and based on those revelations regulate or legislate new guidelines to safeguard against any reoccurrence.

He's already starting the " they all did it " excuse making & defense.

No. That's not what I'm saying. I'm reacting to your assertion that they'll give them a "clean bill of health" if they find out that the FBI bends or breaks rules all the time. I'm saying that it's not possible for them to know what "SOP" is without examining other FISA cases....lots of them.

I'm the only one here who thinks FISA is too secretive for our Democracy. You didn't care about FISA until someone was mean to Trump. Now you suddenly care. Sorry mate, but that's not only annoying, but the reason our country is broken in the first place.

If FISA had been mean to Obama, you wouldn't have cared. And it hasn't even crossed your mind that someone could be rotting in jail, or had their families harassed over FISA. We can't know, because they whole thing is clandestine. This doesn't bother you. What bothers you is the idea that FISA went after "your guy". Which is a pretty p*ss-poor way of looking at the issue, if you ask me.


What I am saying is: the most LIKELY outcome is the same it always is. If (if) the system was abused, they'll go after the people who were mean to Trump, and move on. Not worrying or caring about others who were compromised or injured by the FISA system. All that matters is that "my guy" was hurt. And once that's over? They won't lift one freaking finger to fix FISA.

Watch. Happy to wager on this outcome.

[a fan]

Not true. All they need to do is show/prove how FISA was politically abused by the Obama admin, and based on those revelations regulate or legislate new guidelines to safeguard against any reoccurrence.

And a more direct rebuttal: and if they don't find anything wrong? For you and old salt, the case is closed.

It's not for me. The FISA system needs more transparency and oversight.

All those leaks Old Salt complained about? What did FISA do to fix that?

Nothing. They've done nothing. They don't care because "their guy" isn't suffering because of leaks anymore. "Therefore", the problem is "fixed".

It's annoying. NO. The problem isn't fixed.

[LandM]

c&s - first it is great being a grumpah - congrads to you and your family. Second, yes, how Andy has managed to stay out of jail when everyone he surrounds himself with is in jail is beyond me. But he like many in Congress, Mueller, Comey and the rest of the crew are career politicians......it would be great if all the rules were applied equally.

which leads to afan, totally agree on FISA but if you have ever gone through an FBI investigation, did it once and met three times, it is scary as he$$ and they can lie to you but God forbid you lie to them. Because of that, I have never gotten friends who are all accredited into investing in another software deal......the FBI choked a pipeline that the state of NY needs.............a good friend drank himself to death as they never got back to him.....sad in many ways and no the rules did not apply equally.

[a fan]

Most I've dealt with are background checks with the FBI with my distilling and brewing licenses.

I'm looking at this from Occam's Razor. I think it's likely that FISA's secretive nature shapes the FBI's behavior.

But as old salt says: lets wait and see what the initial investigations show. And see what Congress is willing to do to make changes.

[runrussellrun]

Most I've dealt with are background checks with the FBI with my distilling and brewing licenses.

I'm looking at this from Occam's Razor. I think it's likely that FISA's secretive nature shapes the FBI's behavior.

But as old salt says: lets wait and see what the initial investigations show. And see what Congress is willing to do to make changes.

The three "changes" will include

1. a FOIA 4 month, expediated, waiting period. General public has to often wait 13-22 months. After the 4 months, THAN they can start reviewing the FOIA request. After month 7, THEY finally notify you that your FOIA is in "progress" and can not, at this point, determine a finish date.

2. Language, including but not limited too, Husband, spouse, partner, common law friend, et al and any other pronouns used for married humans, is replaced by "who", when the requesting partner of partners status, health, whereabouts, etc.

3. You must pass a $4500, security clearance in order to file a FOIA. time length undetermined.

[youthathletics]

The only outrage will be JHU 72 didn't get an invitation to join them...

Speaking of JHU 72, anyone heard form him? Been 3 1/2 weeks since last post, hope all is well.

[tech37]

The only outrage will be JHU 72 didn't get an invitation to join them...

Speaking of JHU 72, anyone heard form him? Been 3 1/2 weeks since last post, hope all is well.

Check to see where the latest Antifa assaults have taken place. He's either on his way home or still in the slammer

[6ftstick]

She's a little over the top with her Trump hatred but A great read nonetheless

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/ ... ar-AAEWOe0

[tech37]

She's a little over the top with her Trump hatred but A great read nonetheless

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/opinion/ ... ar-AAEWOe0

She's a fine writer no doubt. Despite her personal angst, this nugget seems definitive...

"The hearings were shameful for Republicans thirsting for re-election and a failure for Democrats thirsting for impeachment."

[3rdPersonPlural]

Andrew Sullivan takes to the pages of New York Magazine and writes (with great erudition) of the horrors of ossified power

"....The Republicans, meanwhile, are quite simply a cult behind a lawless wannabe strongman, led by cable news conspiracy theorists. Cults guarantee total unanimity, expel dissenters, and seal themselves off from outside information — and the GOP now does all three. "

"....The president’s assault on the Constitution has merely revealed the Democratic Party as the lame farce we knew it was. Its ancient, pusillanimous congressional leadership was never going to do what duty, rather than politics, requires. ...."

...."The awful truth is that the American constitutional system is failing on almost every level. The system, it turns out, is not even strong enough to withstand one Trump term, let alone two. Trump intuited this in 2016, and if he wins reelection, as he now has a good chance of doing, what’s left of liberal democracy will be under acute duress.

The “extinction-level event” that I feared in the spring of 2016 is already here. Look around you. And it wasn’t even a fight."

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/ ... iling.html

[ABV 8.3%]

The only outrage will be JHU 72 didn't get an invitation to join them...

Speaking of JHU 72, anyone heard form him? Been 3 1/2 weeks since last post, hope all is well.

when jumping into his Bandito character, I am guessing jhu72 is pulling a Patrick Bateman.

[CU77]

Andrew Sullivan takes to the pages of New York Magazine and writes (with great erudition) of the horrors of ossified power

"....The Republicans, meanwhile, are quite simply a cult behind a lawless wannabe strongman, led by cable news conspiracy theorists. Cults guarantee total unanimity, expel dissenters, and seal themselves off from outside information — and the GOP now does all three. "

"....The president’s assault on the Constitution has merely revealed the Democratic Party as the lame farce we knew it was. Its ancient, pusillanimous congressional leadership was never going to do what duty, rather than politics, requires. ...."

...."The awful truth is that the American constitutional system is failing on almost every level. The system, it turns out, is not even strong enough to withstand one Trump term, let alone two. Trump intuited this in 2016, and if he wins reelection, as he now has a good chance of doing, what’s left of liberal democracy will be under acute duress.

The “extinction-level event” that I feared in the spring of 2016 is already here. Look around you. And it wasn’t even a fight."

http://nymag.com/intelligencer/2019/07/ ... iling.html

I've been reading Sullivan for close to 20 years, he's one of the very few commenters I find to be consistently worthwhile.

[6ftstick]

Don't put words in my mouth.

You didn't just call Mueller an empty shirt? You did. And below, you do it again.

So tell me: why did Rosenstein appoint him? Take your time. You're telling me that a Dem collusion was put into motion by a top Republican hand picked by Trump himself. You're not making any sense.

Muellers reputation gave cover to the real investigators. 19 Hillary Clinton supporters. Colluding with the MSM to bring Trump to his knees and undo the 2016 election.

Again, then why did Rosenstein appoint him? It goes back to Republican decision making in every case. You can't dance your way out of this.

You think this is about R's and D's? thought you were more "woke" than that.

You tell me. You're the one trying to make this into a vast conspiracy to, if I get this right, investigate Trump.

So now Mueller, Rosenstein, Mueller's team, dozens of FBI agents, and the kitchen sink all risked their careers and conspired together.

And to what end did all of these people conspire? Apparently they all conspired to investigate Trump, find that he did nothing illegal, and then go find other things to do in their busy lives.

Wow. Jawdropping. Can you imagine the gall of our FBI and DoJ agents investigating Trump, and finding that Trump did nothing illegal?

Earth shattering stuff here.

They all conspired to undo the 2016 election. And to protect Hillary Clintons collusion with the Russians, Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele.

Pay attention in the coming weeks and months. You might learn something

[a fan]

They

Who is they? List the players.

all conspired to undo the 2016 election.

How? Name one thing they did that "undid" the election.

And conspired means they met and communicated together. All of them.

Any evidence of this?

And to protect Hillary Clintons collusion with the Russians, Fusion GPS and Christopher Steele

And how did they do that? We all know about the Steele Dossier. Now how did you find about it so easily if there
was a cover up?

And btw, there's nothing illegal about it. Same for meeting with Russian spies looking for dirt on Hillary. Although Trump's crew did lie about that and hope no one found out about it. They should have known their fans don't care about things like that. It's only bad when Dems do it.

Pay attention in the coming weeks and months. You might learn something

Have been. You guys have been saying this for two years. You just forget it's been that long. I've had an open mind this whole time. Unlike you and old salt and others who suddenly think it's super cool for our leaders to lie to us on the record.

You'll have nothing to complain about if anyone is indicted. You and others have told us this whole time that lying to the American people is cool.

[youthathletics]

Remember....it all leads back to Obama's desk.

[laxxygilmore]

Remember....it all leads back to Obama's desk.

Hmm...this desk?

[a fan]

Remember....it all leads back to Obama's desk.