All Things Russia & Ukraine

The odds are excellent that you will leave this forum hating someone.
OCanada
Posts: 3786
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by OCanada »

cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:02 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:41 pm He is an extremist

He mentions Benghazi but does not mention that the GOP cut the protection. budget by a lotand ss a result the mission was underfunded st the time but that never gets mentioned. By the was the SS budget has also been underfunded. Thx GOP. should take a bow.

I virw OC ss a fifth columnist
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters. Benghazi had nothing to do with a lack of funding. Benghazi occured because of a lack of intelligence. The folks at DoS were worried about the optics of what an increase in security personnel would look like. It didn't matter how many times the ambassador requested more security, it just wouldn't have looked good. You can't tell the world there is no security issue in Libya and then increase security at your embassys. Even the media folks aren't stupid enough to fall for that bullchit.
Lolololol. Thete is mo doubt errors were made at the departmental level. I think 4 people left either fired or resigned. Regardless your attempt to disassociate the GOP is laughable. As wss the attempt to blame Clinton wbi h i recall you were supporting. Read the reports.

The SS has been under funded for at least a decade. The GOP at work again. You have zero credibility
No doubt there were errors made is the understatement of the year. Ignoring repeated requests for additional security isn't simply an error in judgement. It is the sign of incompetent morons in charge. Those are probably the same factors that infected the Secret Service and allowed trump to almost get his brains blown out. I don't know what you do for a living. I hope like hell it has nothing to do with security.
x

Trying to seem intelligent again, Psst you don’t. clownish

The closest troops were in Spain dumbo. An excellent example of why anything you say should be skipped over.

National Security you say. Hmmm. Well you get your wish. I don’t work in national security. However when i lived in Old Town Alexandria which was 8 miles from the Pentagon most of my friends included SES at the NSA,and CIA. The house next door was a USMC 4 star, the USMC liaison to Congress a frw doors down, head of training for the SS, head of security for Nixon in China, an USN Admiral and 2 captains, my brother in law USN SEAL.

Everyone here brings a social network with them. When someone votes for a President they are also voting for a VO and 50 or so close advisors,

https://www.politifact.com/article/2014 ... nt-round-/
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18924
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

Continued military support for Ukraine depends upon continued support from Congressional (R)'s.
Zelensky making it a partisan issue makes it harder to retain their support. Unforced error.
Latest US poll for continuing military aid to Ukraine = 48% for / 49% against.
https://www.wsj.com/world/u-s-unimpress ... g-23e87bff

U.S. ‘Unimpressed’ With Ukraine’s Victory Plan Ahead of Biden-Zelensky Meeting
Kyiv’s proposal focuses on weapons and loosening restrictions on long-range missiles, Western officials say
by Alexander Ward and Lara Seligman, Sept. 25, 2024

NEW YORK—The Biden administration is concerned that the Ukrainian leader’s plan for winning the war against Russia lacks a comprehensive strategy and is little more than a repackaged request for more weapons and the lifting of restrictions on long-range missiles, U.S. officials said.

For months, President Volodymyr Zelensky billed the plan as a framework to defeat Russia, and he is set to brief President Biden on the specifics Thursday during a high-profile White House meeting, the first time the Biden administration will get to hear the framework in its entirety.

But senior U.S. and European officials knowledgeable of the broad outlines of the plan say it offers no clear path to a Ukraine victory, particularly as Russian forces make slow but steady gains on the battlefield.

“I’m unimpressed, there’s not much new there,” one of the senior officials said.

Zelensky’s scheduled visit to Washington on Thursday comes amid growing allegations from some Republicans that Ukraine’s politicians are interfering in U.S. domestic politics. Zelensky recently came under attack for criticizing Republican vice presidential candidate JD Vance, and on Wednesday, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson called for the dismissal of Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S. for touring a manufacturing facility in Pennsylvania as part of what he called a “clearly a partisan campaign event.”

While the U.S. and Ukraine hoped to be united on a way forward, they now find themselves at a crucial point in the war without a shared vision. The divisions between Kyiv and Washington also come amid disagreements among the U.S. and its allies about lifting restrictions on Ukraine’s ability to use long-range missiles inside Russian territory.

A centerpiece of the plan requires the U.S. to give Ukraine the green light to use the weapons as Kyiv sees fit, Finnish President Alexander Stubb said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Without that authority, he said, Ukraine’s proposals would ultimately be “less relevant” because Kyiv would struggle to respond to continued Russian assaults.

Biden has for months refused to budge on Ukraine’s longstanding request to lift restrictions on U.S.- and U.K.-provided long-range missiles, which would allow its forces to strike military targets deep inside Russia. Biden has dug in his heels despite urging by his British counterpart, as U.S. administration officials assert such weapons won’t prove a strategic-game changer and could possibly encourage Vladimir Putin to escalate the war.

The U.S. position has faced stiff pushback from a number of European leaders who believe that, after 2½ years, Ukraine has earned the right to counter Russian forces without any hindrances. Speaking on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly this week, some world leaders were visibly frustrated.

Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said Wednesday that the conflict is at a “crossroads” and criticized the West for wasting time talking about “red lines” while Russia advances on the battlefield. “We need to ensure Ukraine can win this war,” she said, urging Western leaders to give Ukraine long-range weapons “with no restrictions” and to let Ukraine join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski told the Journal he had pressed his American and British colleagues, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken and national security adviser Jake Sullivan, to let Ukraine use the long-range weapons as it wants, dismissing the idea that Putin would escalate in response.
“Are you telling me that Putin is not using—is not throwing—everything he has at Ukraine?” said Sikorski.

But German Chancellor Olaf Scholz sided with Biden’s reluctance to allow free rein on the use of long-range missiles. “Germany will not support lifting restrictions,” he said, shortly before sitting face-to-face with Zelensky on Tuesday,
“This would not be compatible with my personal conviction,” he added.

In his speech at the U.N. on Wednesday, Zelensky warned about impending threats by Russia against his country’s energy infrastructure and nuclear plants, but he didn’t speak to any details of the peace plan or make requests related to weapons.

Behind the scenes, Zelensky has been putting forward a maximalist proposal in hopes the U.S. and its allies will give Kyiv everything it wants, U.S. and European officials said. But the current state of the Ukrainian framework has dispirited Biden’s top aides, U.S. officials said, who in recent weeks traveled to Kyiv and were briefed on elements of the plan.

They hoped to hear something tangible that the Biden administration could support with only four months left in office.

Ukraine’s plan broadly covers Ukraine’s needs on the battlefield, political overhauls inside the country, and the economy, a senior State Department official said Tuesday. But U.S. and European officials said the most developed part of the plan is the first phase—the requests related to weapons—while the rest of the key elements have fewer specifics.

Andriy Yermak, head of Ukraine’s presidential office, called the plan “very specific and clear,” but only went as far as to say “it contains both military and diplomatic parts and prospects of the further economic benefits.”

Concerns about Zelensky’s plan and the debate over allowing Western-made, long-range missiles to strike inside Russia comes as the war turns in Putin’s favor. Russia is closing in on the key logistics hub of Pokrovsk in Ukraine’s east and advancing in other nearby cities such as Vuhledar, a mining center nearly surrounded by Russian forces, as well as Toretsk, which sits on the end of a ridge.

Ukrainian forces in August invaded Russia’s Kursk region, which Zelensky said was part of his plan to increase Ukrainian leverage over Russia. Russia has launched limited counterattacks that have squeezed Ukrainian troops occupying dozens of towns and villages in Kursk but has been unable to fully oust them.

Russia also has systematically targeted Ukraine’s energy infrastructure in recent months, knocking out around half of the country’s electricity grid, forcing rolling blackouts across the country and sparking concerns of a fresh wave of refugees from the country this winter.

Publicly, at least, senior U.S. officials still insist that Ukraine can prevail against Russia, though they no longer talk about Kyiv regaining all of its lost territory.


Blinken on Wednesday said he had no doubt Ukraine could win the war. “The challenge now is to make sure that Ukraine can be a strong independent country that stands up militarily, economically, democratically,” he told ABC News’s “Good Morning America.”

Biden, during his own U.N. speech Tuesday, called on the West to sustain Ukraine’s defense despite war-weariness sapping the political will of Kyiv’s backers. “We will not let up on our support for Ukraine, not until Ukraine wins a just and durable peace,” he said.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34446
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 8:33 pm Continued military support for Ukraine depends upon continued support from Congressional (R)'s.
Zelensky making it a partisan issue makes it harder to retain their support. Unforced error.
Latest US poll for continuing military aid to Ukraine = 48% for / 49% against.
https://www.wsj.com/world/u-s-unimpress ... g-23e87bff

U.S. ‘Unimpressed’ With Ukraine’s Victory Plan Ahead of Biden-Zelensky Meeting
Kyiv’s proposal focuses on weapons and loosening restrictions on long-range missiles, Western officials say
by Alexander Ward and Lara Seligman, Sept. 25, 2024

NEW YORK—The Biden administration is concerned that the Ukrainian leader’s plan for winning the war against Russia lacks a comprehensive strategy and is little more than a repackaged request for more weapons and the lifting of restrictions on long-range missiles, U.S. officials said.

For months, President Volodymyr Zelensky billed the plan as a framework to defeat Russia, and he is set to brief President Biden on the specifics Thursday during a high-profile White House meeting, the first time the Biden administration will get to hear the framework in its entirety.

But senior U.S. and European officials knowledgeable of the broad outlines of the plan say it offers no clear path to a Ukraine victory, particularly as Russian forces make slow but steady gains on the battlefield.

“I’m unimpressed, there’s not much new there,” one of the senior officials said.

Zelensky’s scheduled visit to Washington on Thursday comes amid growing allegations from some Republicans that Ukraine’s politicians are interfering in U.S. domestic politics. Zelensky recently came under attack for criticizing Republican vice presidential candidate JD Vance, and on Wednesday, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson called for the dismissal of Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S. for touring a manufacturing facility in Pennsylvania as part of what he called a “clearly a partisan campaign event.”

While the U.S. and Ukraine hoped to be united on a way forward, they now find themselves at a crucial point in the war without a shared vision. The divisions between Kyiv and Washington also come amid disagreements among the U.S. and its allies about lifting restrictions on Ukraine’s ability to use long-range missiles inside Russian territory.

A centerpiece of the plan requires the U.S. to give Ukraine the green light to use the weapons as Kyiv sees fit, Finnish President Alexander Stubb said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Without that authority, he said, Ukraine’s proposals would ultimately be “less relevant” because Kyiv would struggle to respond to continued Russian assaults.

Biden has for months refused to budge on Ukraine’s longstanding request to lift restrictions on U.S.- and U.K.-provided long-range missiles, which would allow its forces to strike military targets deep inside Russia. Biden has dug in his heels despite urging by his British counterpart, as U.S. administration officials assert such weapons won’t prove a strategic-game changer and could possibly encourage Vladimir Putin to escalate the war.

The U.S. position has faced stiff pushback from a number of European leaders who believe that, after 2½ years, Ukraine has earned the right to counter Russian forces without any hindrances. Speaking on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly this week, some world leaders were visibly frustrated.

Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said Wednesday that the conflict is at a “crossroads” and criticized the West for wasting time talking about “red lines” while Russia advances on the battlefield. “We need to ensure Ukraine can win this war,” she said, urging Western leaders to give Ukraine long-range weapons “with no restrictions” and to let Ukraine join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski told the Journal he had pressed his American and British colleagues, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken and national security adviser Jake Sullivan, to let Ukraine use the long-range weapons as it wants, dismissing the idea that Putin would escalate in response.
“Are you telling me that Putin is not using—is not throwing—everything he has at Ukraine?” said Sikorski.

But German Chancellor Olaf Scholz sided with Biden’s reluctance to allow free rein on the use of long-range missiles. “Germany will not support lifting restrictions,” he said, shortly before sitting face-to-face with Zelensky on Tuesday,
“This would not be compatible with my personal conviction,” he added.

In his speech at the U.N. on Wednesday, Zelensky warned about impending threats by Russia against his country’s energy infrastructure and nuclear plants, but he didn’t speak to any details of the peace plan or make requests related to weapons.

Behind the scenes, Zelensky has been putting forward a maximalist proposal in hopes the U.S. and its allies will give Kyiv everything it wants, U.S. and European officials said. But the current state of the Ukrainian framework has dispirited Biden’s top aides, U.S. officials said, who in recent weeks traveled to Kyiv and were briefed on elements of the plan.

They hoped to hear something tangible that the Biden administration could support with only four months left in office.

Ukraine’s plan broadly covers Ukraine’s needs on the battlefield, political overhauls inside the country, and the economy, a senior State Department official said Tuesday. But U.S. and European officials said the most developed part of the plan is the first phase—the requests related to weapons—while the rest of the key elements have fewer specifics.

Andriy Yermak, head of Ukraine’s presidential office, called the plan “very specific and clear,” but only went as far as to say “it contains both military and diplomatic parts and prospects of the further economic benefits.”

Concerns about Zelensky’s plan and the debate over allowing Western-made, long-range missiles to strike inside Russia comes as the war turns in Putin’s favor. Russia is closing in on the key logistics hub of Pokrovsk in Ukraine’s east and advancing in other nearby cities such as Vuhledar, a mining center nearly surrounded by Russian forces, as well as Toretsk, which sits on the end of a ridge.

Ukrainian forces in August invaded Russia’s Kursk region, which Zelensky said was part of his plan to increase Ukrainian leverage over Russia. Russia has launched limited counterattacks that have squeezed Ukrainian troops occupying dozens of towns and villages in Kursk but has been unable to fully oust them.

Russia also has systematically targeted Ukraine’s energy infrastructure in recent months, knocking out around half of the country’s electricity grid, forcing rolling blackouts across the country and sparking concerns of a fresh wave of refugees from the country this winter.

Publicly, at least, senior U.S. officials still insist that Ukraine can prevail against Russia, though they no longer talk about Kyiv regaining all of its lost territory.


Blinken on Wednesday said he had no doubt Ukraine could win the war. “The challenge now is to make sure that Ukraine can be a strong independent country that stands up militarily, economically, democratically,” he told ABC News’s “Good Morning America.”

Biden, during his own U.N. speech Tuesday, called on the West to sustain Ukraine’s defense despite war-weariness sapping the political will of Kyiv’s backers. “We will not let up on our support for Ukraine, not until Ukraine wins a just and durable peace,” he said.
Engaging the CinC and the current administration is partisanship? You favor appeasement.
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15738
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by cradleandshoot »

OCanada wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 4:45 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:02 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:41 pm He is an extremist

He mentions Benghazi but does not mention that the GOP cut the protection. budget by a lotand ss a result the mission was underfunded st the time but that never gets mentioned. By the was the SS budget has also been underfunded. Thx GOP. should take a bow.

I virw OC ss a fifth columnist
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters. Benghazi had nothing to do with a lack of funding. Benghazi occured because of a lack of intelligence. The folks at DoS were worried about the optics of what an increase in security personnel would look like. It didn't matter how many times the ambassador requested more security, it just wouldn't have looked good. You can't tell the world there is no security issue in Libya and then increase security at your embassys. Even the media folks aren't stupid enough to fall for that bullchit.
Lolololol. Thete is mo doubt errors were made at the departmental level. I think 4 people left either fired or resigned. Regardless your attempt to disassociate the GOP is laughable. As wss the attempt to blame Clinton wbi h i recall you were supporting. Read the reports.

The SS has been under funded for at least a decade. The GOP at work again. You have zero credibility
No doubt there were errors made is the understatement of the year. Ignoring repeated requests for additional security isn't simply an error in judgement. It is the sign of incompetent morons in charge. Those are probably the same factors that infected the Secret Service and allowed trump to almost get his brains blown out. I don't know what you do for a living. I hope like hell it has nothing to do with security.
x

Trying to seem intelligent again, Psst you don’t. clownish

The closest troops were in Spain dumbo. An excellent example of why anything you say should be skipped over.

National Security you say. Hmmm. Well you get your wish. I don’t work in national security. However when i lived in Old Town Alexandria which was 8 miles from the Pentagon most of my friends included SES at the NSA,and CIA. The house next door was a USMC 4 star, the USMC liaison to Congress a frw doors down, head of training for the SS, head of security for Nixon in China, an USN Admiral and 2 captains, my brother in law USN SEAL.

Everyone here brings a social network with them. When someone votes for a President they are also voting for a VO and 50 or so close advisors,

https://www.politifact.com/article/2014 ... nt-round-/
Thank you for validating my opinion. :D
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15738
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by cradleandshoot »

old salt wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 8:33 pm Continued military support for Ukraine depends upon continued support from Congressional (R)'s.
Zelensky making it a partisan issue makes it harder to retain their support. Unforced error.
Latest US poll for continuing military aid to Ukraine = 48% for / 49% against.
https://www.wsj.com/world/u-s-unimpress ... g-23e87bff

U.S. ‘Unimpressed’ With Ukraine’s Victory Plan Ahead of Biden-Zelensky Meeting
Kyiv’s proposal focuses on weapons and loosening restrictions on long-range missiles, Western officials say
by Alexander Ward and Lara Seligman, Sept. 25, 2024

NEW YORK—The Biden administration is concerned that the Ukrainian leader’s plan for winning the war against Russia lacks a comprehensive strategy and is little more than a repackaged request for more weapons and the lifting of restrictions on long-range missiles, U.S. officials said.

For months, President Volodymyr Zelensky billed the plan as a framework to defeat Russia, and he is set to brief President Biden on the specifics Thursday during a high-profile White House meeting, the first time the Biden administration will get to hear the framework in its entirety.

But senior U.S. and European officials knowledgeable of the broad outlines of the plan say it offers no clear path to a Ukraine victory, particularly as Russian forces make slow but steady gains on the battlefield.

“I’m unimpressed, there’s not much new there,” one of the senior officials said.

Zelensky’s scheduled visit to Washington on Thursday comes amid growing allegations from some Republicans that Ukraine’s politicians are interfering in U.S. domestic politics. Zelensky recently came under attack for criticizing Republican vice presidential candidate JD Vance, and on Wednesday, Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson called for the dismissal of Ukraine’s ambassador to the U.S. for touring a manufacturing facility in Pennsylvania as part of what he called a “clearly a partisan campaign event.”

While the U.S. and Ukraine hoped to be united on a way forward, they now find themselves at a crucial point in the war without a shared vision. The divisions between Kyiv and Washington also come amid disagreements among the U.S. and its allies about lifting restrictions on Ukraine’s ability to use long-range missiles inside Russian territory.

A centerpiece of the plan requires the U.S. to give Ukraine the green light to use the weapons as Kyiv sees fit, Finnish President Alexander Stubb said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. Without that authority, he said, Ukraine’s proposals would ultimately be “less relevant” because Kyiv would struggle to respond to continued Russian assaults.

Biden has for months refused to budge on Ukraine’s longstanding request to lift restrictions on U.S.- and U.K.-provided long-range missiles, which would allow its forces to strike military targets deep inside Russia. Biden has dug in his heels despite urging by his British counterpart, as U.S. administration officials assert such weapons won’t prove a strategic-game changer and could possibly encourage Vladimir Putin to escalate the war.

The U.S. position has faced stiff pushback from a number of European leaders who believe that, after 2½ years, Ukraine has earned the right to counter Russian forces without any hindrances. Speaking on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly this week, some world leaders were visibly frustrated.

Danish Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen said Wednesday that the conflict is at a “crossroads” and criticized the West for wasting time talking about “red lines” while Russia advances on the battlefield. “We need to ensure Ukraine can win this war,” she said, urging Western leaders to give Ukraine long-range weapons “with no restrictions” and to let Ukraine join the North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

Polish Foreign Minister Radosław Sikorski told the Journal he had pressed his American and British colleagues, including Secretary of State Antony Blinken and national security adviser Jake Sullivan, to let Ukraine use the long-range weapons as it wants, dismissing the idea that Putin would escalate in response.
“Are you telling me that Putin is not using—is not throwing—everything he has at Ukraine?” said Sikorski.

But German Chancellor Olaf Scholz sided with Biden’s reluctance to allow free rein on the use of long-range missiles. “Germany will not support lifting restrictions,” he said, shortly before sitting face-to-face with Zelensky on Tuesday,
“This would not be compatible with my personal conviction,” he added.

In his speech at the U.N. on Wednesday, Zelensky warned about impending threats by Russia against his country’s energy infrastructure and nuclear plants, but he didn’t speak to any details of the peace plan or make requests related to weapons.

Behind the scenes, Zelensky has been putting forward a maximalist proposal in hopes the U.S. and its allies will give Kyiv everything it wants, U.S. and European officials said. But the current state of the Ukrainian framework has dispirited Biden’s top aides, U.S. officials said, who in recent weeks traveled to Kyiv and were briefed on elements of the plan.

They hoped to hear something tangible that the Biden administration could support with only four months left in office.

Ukraine’s plan broadly covers Ukraine’s needs on the battlefield, political overhauls inside the country, and the economy, a senior State Department official said Tuesday. But U.S. and European officials said the most developed part of the plan is the first phase—the requests related to weapons—while the rest of the key elements have fewer specifics.

Andriy Yermak, head of Ukraine’s presidential office, called the plan “very specific and clear,” but only went as far as to say “it contains both military and diplomatic parts and prospects of the further economic benefits.”

Concerns about Zelensky’s plan and the debate over allowing Western-made, long-range missiles to strike inside Russia comes as the war turns in Putin’s favor. Russia is closing in on the key logistics hub of Pokrovsk in Ukraine’s east and advancing in other nearby cities such as Vuhledar, a mining center nearly surrounded by Russian forces, as well as Toretsk, which sits on the end of a ridge.

Ukrainian forces in August invaded Russia’s Kursk region, which Zelensky said was part of his plan to increase Ukrainian leverage over Russia. Russia has launched limited counterattacks that have squeezed Ukrainian troops occupying dozens of towns and villages in Kursk but has been unable to fully oust them.

Russia also has systematically targeted Ukraine’s energy infrastructure in recent months, knocking out around half of the country’s electricity grid, forcing rolling blackouts across the country and sparking concerns of a fresh wave of refugees from the country this winter.

Publicly, at least, senior U.S. officials still insist that Ukraine can prevail against Russia, though they no longer talk about Kyiv regaining all of its lost territory.


Blinken on Wednesday said he had no doubt Ukraine could win the war. “The challenge now is to make sure that Ukraine can be a strong independent country that stands up militarily, economically, democratically,” he told ABC News’s “Good Morning America.”

Biden, during his own U.N. speech Tuesday, called on the West to sustain Ukraine’s defense despite war-weariness sapping the political will of Kyiv’s backers. “We will not let up on our support for Ukraine, not until Ukraine wins a just and durable peace,” he said.
I guess driving an EV in Ukraine could be problematic indeed? Do Hybrids make more sense?
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
User avatar
NattyBohChamps04
Posts: 2891
Joined: Tue May 04, 2021 11:40 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by NattyBohChamps04 »

Trump says he will meet with Zelenskyy on Friday

Talking heads were good at spinning things and getting certain people to take the bait.
OCanada
Posts: 3786
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by OCanada »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:24 am
OCanada wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 4:45 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:02 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:41 pm He is an extremist

He mentions Benghazi but does not mention that the GOP cut the protection. budget by a lotand ss a result the mission was underfunded st the time but that never gets mentioned. By the was the SS budget has also been underfunded. Thx GOP. should take a bow.

I virw OC ss a fifth columnist
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters. Benghazi had nothing to do with a lack of funding. Benghazi occured because of a lack of intelligence. The folks at DoS were worried about the optics of what an increase in security personnel would look like. It didn't matter how many times the ambassador requested more security, it just wouldn't have looked good. You can't tell the world there is no security issue in Libya and then increase security at your embassys. Even the media folks aren't stupid enough to fall for that bullchit.
Lolololol. Thete is mo doubt errors were made at the departmental level. I think 4 people left either fired or resigned. Regardless your attempt to disassociate the GOP is laughable. As wss the attempt to blame Clinton wbi h i recall you were supporting. Read the reports.

The SS has been under funded for at least a decade. The GOP at work again. You have zero credibility
No doubt there were errors made is the understatement of the year. Ignoring repeated requests for additional security isn't simply an error in judgement. It is the sign of incompetent morons in charge. Those are probably the same factors that infected the Secret Service and allowed trump to almost get his brains blown out. I don't know what you do for a living. I hope like hell it has nothing to do with security.
x

Trying to seem intelligent again, Psst you don’t. clownish

The closest troops were in Spain dumbo. An excellent example of why anything you say should be skipped over.

National Security you say. Hmmm. Well you get your wish. I don’t work in national security. However when i lived in Old Town Alexandria which was 8 miles from the Pentagon most of my friends included SES at the NSA,and CIA. The house next door was a USMC 4 star, the USMC liaison to Congress a frw doors down, head of training for the SS, head of security for Nixon in China, an USN Admiral and 2 captains, my brother in law USN SEAL.

Everyone here brings a social network with them. When someone votes for a President they are also voting for a VO and 50 or so close advisors,

https://www.politifact.com/article/2014 ... nt-round-/
Thank you for validating my opinion. :D
You needed help. Floundering. Glad to lend a helping hsnd
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15738
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by cradleandshoot »

OCanada wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2024 1:22 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Sep 27, 2024 6:24 am
OCanada wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 4:45 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Sep 26, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 3:02 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Wed Sep 18, 2024 6:18 am
OCanada wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2024 5:41 pm He is an extremist

He mentions Benghazi but does not mention that the GOP cut the protection. budget by a lotand ss a result the mission was underfunded st the time but that never gets mentioned. By the was the SS budget has also been underfunded. Thx GOP. should take a bow.

I virw OC ss a fifth columnist
The maximum effective range of an excuse is zero meters. Benghazi had nothing to do with a lack of funding. Benghazi occured because of a lack of intelligence. The folks at DoS were worried about the optics of what an increase in security personnel would look like. It didn't matter how many times the ambassador requested more security, it just wouldn't have looked good. You can't tell the world there is no security issue in Libya and then increase security at your embassys. Even the media folks aren't stupid enough to fall for that bullchit.
Lolololol. Thete is mo doubt errors were made at the departmental level. I think 4 people left either fired or resigned. Regardless your attempt to disassociate the GOP is laughable. As wss the attempt to blame Clinton wbi h i recall you were supporting. Read the reports.

The SS has been under funded for at least a decade. The GOP at work again. You have zero credibility
No doubt there were errors made is the understatement of the year. Ignoring repeated requests for additional security isn't simply an error in judgement. It is the sign of incompetent morons in charge. Those are probably the same factors that infected the Secret Service and allowed trump to almost get his brains blown out. I don't know what you do for a living. I hope like hell it has nothing to do with security.
x

Trying to seem intelligent again, Psst you don’t. clownish

The closest troops were in Spain dumbo. An excellent example of why anything you say should be skipped over.

National Security you say. Hmmm. Well you get your wish. I don’t work in national security. However when i lived in Old Town Alexandria which was 8 miles from the Pentagon most of my friends included SES at the NSA,and CIA. The house next door was a USMC 4 star, the USMC liaison to Congress a frw doors down, head of training for the SS, head of security for Nixon in China, an USN Admiral and 2 captains, my brother in law USN SEAL.

Everyone here brings a social network with them. When someone votes for a President they are also voting for a VO and 50 or so close advisors,

https://www.politifact.com/article/2014 ... nt-round-/
Thank you for validating my opinion. :D
You needed help. Floundering. Glad to lend a helping hsnd
Then who would available to bail out your own floundering posterior? I'm making an unselfish sacrifice to help you out for cryin out loud... show a little gratitude.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
User avatar
cradleandshoot
Posts: 15738
Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by cradleandshoot »

Sure is, we can only hope those aren't American soldiers they will have to evacuate. Only Doc could look at this and spin it in a positive note.
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
Bob Ross:
OCanada
Posts: 3786
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by OCanada »

All things Russia

Russia interfered with our election in 2016, again im 2020 and 2022. This year much more of the same: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/russ ... ting-trump. Yikes
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 16064
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by youthathletics »

OCanada wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:56 am All things Russia

Russia interfered with our election in 2016, again im 2020 and 2022. This year much more of the same: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/russ ... ting-trump. Yikes
This is becoming more and more prevalent across the board everywhere. Gov't entities are using social media to promulgate narratives, and drive towards ulterior motives. I just listened to a podcast on this....Censorship Industrial Complex, is the new term.
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
User avatar
Kismet
Posts: 5210
Joined: Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:42 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Kismet »

youthathletics wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:48 pm
OCanada wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:56 am All things Russia

Russia interfered with our election in 2016, again im 2020 and 2022. This year much more of the same: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/russ ... ting-trump. Yikes
This is becoming more and more prevalent across the board everywhere. Gov't entities are using social media to promulgate narratives, and drive towards ulterior motives. I just listened to a podcast on this....Censorship Industrial Complex, is the new term.
"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life, it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line
The man come and take you away"


:lol: :lol: :lol:
User avatar
youthathletics
Posts: 16064
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:36 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by youthathletics »

Kismet wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 6:05 pm
youthathletics wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 5:48 pm
OCanada wrote: Sun Sep 29, 2024 9:56 am All things Russia

Russia interfered with our election in 2016, again im 2020 and 2022. This year much more of the same: https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/russ ... ting-trump. Yikes
This is becoming more and more prevalent across the board everywhere. Gov't entities are using social media to promulgate narratives, and drive towards ulterior motives. I just listened to a podcast on this....Censorship Industrial Complex, is the new term.
"Paranoia strikes deep
Into your life, it will creep
It starts when you're always afraid
You step out of line
The man come and take you away"


:lol: :lol: :lol:
The beginning sets up the latter:

There's something happening here
But what it is ain't exactly clear
There's a man with a gun over there
Telling me I got to beware."
A fraudulent intent, however carefully concealed at the outset, will generally, in the end, betray itself.
~Livy


“There are two ways to be fooled. One is to believe what isn’t true; the other is to refuse to believe what is true.” -Soren Kierkegaard
PizzaSnake
Posts: 5405
Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by PizzaSnake »

“The percentage you're paying is too high priced
while you're living beyond all your means
and the man in the suit has just bought a new car
from the profit he's made on your dreams
But today you just swear that the man was shot dead
by a gun that didn't make any noise
But it wasn't the bullet that laid him to rest
was the low spark of high-heeled boys....high-heeled boys.

If I gave you everything that I own
and asked for nothing in return
Would you do the same for me, as I would for you?
Or take me for a ride
and strip me of everything, including my pride
But spirit is something that no one destroys”
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
OCanada
Posts: 3786
Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:36 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by OCanada »

The Atlantic has an article on why so many people were so wrong on this conflict invluding here. eg not paying attention go the corruption in the Russian military

https://apple.news/AS2w01R8OT7KNT4gkJHv37w

In the last year Russia has increased its presence by 0.01%
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18924
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

OCanada wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:43 pm The Atlantic has an article on why so many people were so wrong on this conflict invluding here. eg not paying attention go the corruption in the Russian military

https://apple.news/AS2w01R8OT7KNT4gkJHv37w

In the last year Russia has increased its presence by 0.01%
Who here was "wrong on this conflict" ? Specifics plz ?
Show us their words from Feb/Mar 2022 in this thread,

Paywall on that article. If it's worth posting, have the courtesy to cut & paste it for non-subscribers.

obtw -- F-16's for Ukraine
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine ... ly-2024-10

Ukrainian F-16 fighter pilots have had to dramatically change the way they fly after long flying Soviet jets, and it's a lot to overcome

Ukraine's F-16 pilots have had to quickly get up to speed on a different fighter jet.
They're being trained to fly a new plane but also to break habits from flying Soviet jets.
An air-warfare expert says changing the pilots' muscle memory and reactions to crises is difficult.

Ukraine's F-16 pilots have had to dramatically change the way they fly in a very short period of time in order to fight Russia, and it's a tremendous challenge for pilots when they're under pressure, an air-warfare expert told Business Insider.

Michael Bohnert, an engineer at the RAND Corporation, told BI the big changes Ukrainian pilots have had to make so quickly made it difficult for them to overcome old habits and muscle memory in a crisis.

Ukrainian pilots were given roughly nine months of training in the US and some European countries, while most Western pilots are given three years to learn the jets, The Associated Press reported.

And more broadly, Ukraine's air force is having to rapidly undergo a wider transition that its international partners took significantly longer to do. Across the board, Ukraine's military has had to adapt to new weapons and fighting styles on wild timelines, and the results have been mixed. It's far from an easy task, and in a fight, it's easiest to revert to what you know best.

Before the F-16s first arrived in Ukraine in August, the country's fighter fleet consisted only of much older, Soviet-era aircraft. Those older jets have hydraulic systems, while F-16 jets are fly-by-wire, which means computers process the input by pilots.

"What it means is that F-16s are not just more maneuverable, they're more responsive," Bohnert said.

"And transitioning pilots from the older to the newer is a problem because you can teach someone to fly a plane in six months to a year. But to teach them that muscle memory to know what to do when something goes wrong takes four or five, six, takes many more years," Bohnert said.

He said it was difficult for pilots to retrain on such radically different jet types because "if something's going wrong, your muscle memory reverts back to something that's older."

It could be overcome with more and more time on simulators, he added — but Ukraine's military doesn't have much time to spare.

A challenging task for Ukraine's pilots
Ukrainian pilots have praised the combat power of their new F-16s compared with the older jets but have also noted how big a transition they've been.

Ukraine isn't flying the most dangerous missions with its F-16s because the pilots are still new to the fighter, US general says
The old F-16s the West is giving Ukraine can't outmatch Russia's best jets, former US general says

A Ukrainian pilot with the call sign "Moonfish" earlier this year called it "a really awesome jet to fly," saying it was much easier. He compared the change to upgrading from a basic phone like a Nokia "straight to an iPhone, without all those steps in between."

In an interview with Politico, Tom Richter, a former US Marine pilot who flew F-16s for the National Guard, called the jet "a sensitive beast" compared with Ukraine's Soviet-era aircraft.

The reality that Ukrainian pilots are new to F-16s was acknowledged by Gen. James Hecker, commander of US Air Forces in Europe and NATO Allied Air Command, in September when he said Ukraine was not using the jets for the riskiest types of missions because "the pilots are new to it."

A Ukrainian air force F-16 fighter jet in an undisclosed location in Ukraine. AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky
Two American air-warfare experts said in July that the transition to F-16s and the integration of these weapons into the combat operations of the Ukrainian military required Ukraine to overhaul decades of Soviet doctrine and training.

"Old habits die hard. They must be willing to embrace new concepts and training — as well as a willingness to 'rewrite the books' on military employment," the Mitchell Institute's David Deptula and Christopher Bowie wrote in a report this past summer.

Changes in militaries don't usually happen overnight. Bohnert noted that the transition to fly-by-wire aircraft took years for Western air forces and "there were still accidents and unhappiness." The Ukrainians don't have that kind of time, though, and are under much greater pressure to adapt much faster.

And Ukrainian pilots have risen to that great challenge. An internal US Air Force assessment from last year said two Ukrainian pilots proved they could complete the training for the F-16 in just four months — more than four times as fast as what the Pentagon had predicted.

But as former US military pilots warned in interviews with BI in April, the contested skies above Ukraine will be the most dangerous battlefield that F-16s have ever faced.

Though causes remain unknown, Bohnert said inexperience on the new fighter jet might have been a factor when an F-16 crashed in August while defending against a Russian attack. In that fatal incident, both the jet and Ukrainian Air Force pilot Oleksiy Mes were lost.

The loss could have also been the result of a mechanical failure on the aging aircraft, or friendly fire could have caused it as Ukraine works to get all of its combat systems, a hodgepodge of equipment, working smoothly together. Ukraine hasn't given a reason for the loss, but the investigation considered these possibilities.

Ukraine's F-16s are limited
Air-warfare experts previously told BI the F-16s weren't likely to be major game changers but would help Ukraine replenish lost aircraft, protect cities and other targets, and potentially allow Ukraine to launch new raids in the air.

The jets Ukraine is receiving, though a capability jump over its Soviet-era planes, are older F-16s without some of the newer upgrades. Bohnert described the fighters as "older airframes with not a lot of life left," though he said that "doesn't mean they're bad." Still, they're not a match for Russia's better jets or its formidable air defenses.

A bigger problem is that Ukraine wasn't given enough of the jets to use them like the West does and make a substantial difference.

Denmark, Norway, Belgium, and the Netherlands have pledged more than 85 F-16s to Ukraine. Only a handful were delivered in August. Roughly 20 of the fighters are expected to be delivered to Ukraine by the end of this year.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who said in July that his country wasn't getting enough new jets, said last month that there were plans to increase Ukraine's number of jets and trained pilots. He offered no details, however.

Partners have hamstrung Ukraine in how it uses Western weapons, and those limitations may prevent it from leveraging the F-16's capabilities in the way it could have without restrictions. But limited airframes and trained pilots are big issues.

Politico reported in June that not enough pilots were being trained for the jets Ukraine was promised. The outlet said partner nations had fewer training spots than Ukraine did jets and pilots ready to be trained. The delays in getting this program spun up have been detrimental.

Ukraine began asking for F-16s shortly after Russia invaded more than 2 ½ years ago. But the US, which has to give permission for the jets it manufactured to be donated even by other countries, was long reluctant.

Keir Giles, a senior consulting fellow at Chatham House's Russia and Eurasia Programme, said last month that the delay in meeting Ukraine's demands meant "Russia has been given ample time to plan for the appearance of Ukraine's new aircraft type and adapt to it."

Ukraine, on the other hand, is still setting up its new F-16 program and trying to resolve issues with pilot training and integrating the jets into Ukraine's military.

Michael Clarke, a Russia and Ukraine expert who's also a British national security advisor, told BI this summer that "if the West donated F-16s a year earlier, then most of these problems would be solved by now."

He also said that if more planes weren't on the table, then "in terms of defending Ukrainian airspace and being able to deal all the way across the front with Russia's numbers, the F-16s are a long way from being able to do that."

Challenges, limitations, and restrictions aside, air-warfare experts still say the jets are a positive for Ukraine.

Retired US Army Maj. Gen. Gordon "Skip" Davis, who was NATO's deputy assistant secretary-general for its Defense Investment Division, told BI that Ukraine's F-16s "are making a difference now" and that more arriving "will help them make more of a difference."
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34446
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

old salt wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:07 pm
OCanada wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2024 7:43 pm The Atlantic has an article on why so many people were so wrong on this conflict invluding here. eg not paying attention go the corruption in the Russian military

https://apple.news/AS2w01R8OT7KNT4gkJHv37w

In the last year Russia has increased its presence by 0.01%
Who here was "wrong on this conflict" ? Specifics plz ?
Show us their words from Feb/Mar 2022 in this thread,

Paywall on that article. If it's worth posting, have the courtesy to cut & paste it for non-subscribers.

obtw -- F-16's for Ukraine
https://www.businessinsider.com/ukraine ... ly-2024-10

Ukrainian F-16 fighter pilots have had to dramatically change the way they fly after long flying Soviet jets, and it's a lot to overcome

Ukraine's F-16 pilots have had to quickly get up to speed on a different fighter jet.
They're being trained to fly a new plane but also to break habits from flying Soviet jets.
An air-warfare expert says changing the pilots' muscle memory and reactions to crises is difficult.

Ukraine's F-16 pilots have had to dramatically change the way they fly in a very short period of time in order to fight Russia, and it's a tremendous challenge for pilots when they're under pressure, an air-warfare expert told Business Insider.

Michael Bohnert, an engineer at the RAND Corporation, told BI the big changes Ukrainian pilots have had to make so quickly made it difficult for them to overcome old habits and muscle memory in a crisis.

Ukrainian pilots were given roughly nine months of training in the US and some European countries, while most Western pilots are given three years to learn the jets, The Associated Press reported.

And more broadly, Ukraine's air force is having to rapidly undergo a wider transition that its international partners took significantly longer to do. Across the board, Ukraine's military has had to adapt to new weapons and fighting styles on wild timelines, and the results have been mixed. It's far from an easy task, and in a fight, it's easiest to revert to what you know best.

Before the F-16s first arrived in Ukraine in August, the country's fighter fleet consisted only of much older, Soviet-era aircraft. Those older jets have hydraulic systems, while F-16 jets are fly-by-wire, which means computers process the input by pilots.

"What it means is that F-16s are not just more maneuverable, they're more responsive," Bohnert said.

"And transitioning pilots from the older to the newer is a problem because you can teach someone to fly a plane in six months to a year. But to teach them that muscle memory to know what to do when something goes wrong takes four or five, six, takes many more years," Bohnert said.

He said it was difficult for pilots to retrain on such radically different jet types because "if something's going wrong, your muscle memory reverts back to something that's older."

It could be overcome with more and more time on simulators, he added — but Ukraine's military doesn't have much time to spare.

A challenging task for Ukraine's pilots
Ukrainian pilots have praised the combat power of their new F-16s compared with the older jets but have also noted how big a transition they've been.

Ukraine isn't flying the most dangerous missions with its F-16s because the pilots are still new to the fighter, US general says
The old F-16s the West is giving Ukraine can't outmatch Russia's best jets, former US general says

A Ukrainian pilot with the call sign "Moonfish" earlier this year called it "a really awesome jet to fly," saying it was much easier. He compared the change to upgrading from a basic phone like a Nokia "straight to an iPhone, without all those steps in between."

In an interview with Politico, Tom Richter, a former US Marine pilot who flew F-16s for the National Guard, called the jet "a sensitive beast" compared with Ukraine's Soviet-era aircraft.

The reality that Ukrainian pilots are new to F-16s was acknowledged by Gen. James Hecker, commander of US Air Forces in Europe and NATO Allied Air Command, in September when he said Ukraine was not using the jets for the riskiest types of missions because "the pilots are new to it."

A Ukrainian air force F-16 fighter jet in an undisclosed location in Ukraine. AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky
Two American air-warfare experts said in July that the transition to F-16s and the integration of these weapons into the combat operations of the Ukrainian military required Ukraine to overhaul decades of Soviet doctrine and training.

"Old habits die hard. They must be willing to embrace new concepts and training — as well as a willingness to 'rewrite the books' on military employment," the Mitchell Institute's David Deptula and Christopher Bowie wrote in a report this past summer.

Changes in militaries don't usually happen overnight. Bohnert noted that the transition to fly-by-wire aircraft took years for Western air forces and "there were still accidents and unhappiness." The Ukrainians don't have that kind of time, though, and are under much greater pressure to adapt much faster.

And Ukrainian pilots have risen to that great challenge. An internal US Air Force assessment from last year said two Ukrainian pilots proved they could complete the training for the F-16 in just four months — more than four times as fast as what the Pentagon had predicted.

But as former US military pilots warned in interviews with BI in April, the contested skies above Ukraine will be the most dangerous battlefield that F-16s have ever faced.

Though causes remain unknown, Bohnert said inexperience on the new fighter jet might have been a factor when an F-16 crashed in August while defending against a Russian attack. In that fatal incident, both the jet and Ukrainian Air Force pilot Oleksiy Mes were lost.

The loss could have also been the result of a mechanical failure on the aging aircraft, or friendly fire could have caused it as Ukraine works to get all of its combat systems, a hodgepodge of equipment, working smoothly together. Ukraine hasn't given a reason for the loss, but the investigation considered these possibilities.

Ukraine's F-16s are limited
Air-warfare experts previously told BI the F-16s weren't likely to be major game changers but would help Ukraine replenish lost aircraft, protect cities and other targets, and potentially allow Ukraine to launch new raids in the air.

The jets Ukraine is receiving, though a capability jump over its Soviet-era planes, are older F-16s without some of the newer upgrades. Bohnert described the fighters as "older airframes with not a lot of life left," though he said that "doesn't mean they're bad." Still, they're not a match for Russia's better jets or its formidable air defenses.

A bigger problem is that Ukraine wasn't given enough of the jets to use them like the West does and make a substantial difference.

Denmark, Norway, Belgium, and the Netherlands have pledged more than 85 F-16s to Ukraine. Only a handful were delivered in August. Roughly 20 of the fighters are expected to be delivered to Ukraine by the end of this year.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, who said in July that his country wasn't getting enough new jets, said last month that there were plans to increase Ukraine's number of jets and trained pilots. He offered no details, however.

Partners have hamstrung Ukraine in how it uses Western weapons, and those limitations may prevent it from leveraging the F-16's capabilities in the way it could have without restrictions. But limited airframes and trained pilots are big issues.

Politico reported in June that not enough pilots were being trained for the jets Ukraine was promised. The outlet said partner nations had fewer training spots than Ukraine did jets and pilots ready to be trained. The delays in getting this program spun up have been detrimental.

Ukraine began asking for F-16s shortly after Russia invaded more than 2 ½ years ago. But the US, which has to give permission for the jets it manufactured to be donated even by other countries, was long reluctant.

Keir Giles, a senior consulting fellow at Chatham House's Russia and Eurasia Programme, said last month that the delay in meeting Ukraine's demands meant "Russia has been given ample time to plan for the appearance of Ukraine's new aircraft type and adapt to it."

Ukraine, on the other hand, is still setting up its new F-16 program and trying to resolve issues with pilot training and integrating the jets into Ukraine's military.

Michael Clarke, a Russia and Ukraine expert who's also a British national security advisor, told BI this summer that "if the West donated F-16s a year earlier, then most of these problems would be solved by now."

He also said that if more planes weren't on the table, then "in terms of defending Ukrainian airspace and being able to deal all the way across the front with Russia's numbers, the F-16s are a long way from being able to do that."

Challenges, limitations, and restrictions aside, air-warfare experts still say the jets are a positive for Ukraine.

Retired US Army Maj. Gen. Gordon "Skip" Davis, who was NATO's deputy assistant secretary-general for its Defense Investment Division, told BI that Ukraine's F-16s "are making a difference now" and that more arriving "will help them make more of a difference."
You
“I wish you would!”
User avatar
old salt
Posts: 18924
Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 11:44 am

Re: All Things Russia & Ukraine

Post by old salt »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:36 pm
old salt wrote: Mon Oct 07, 2024 10:07 pm Who here was "wrong on this conflict" ? Specifics plz ?
Show us their words from Feb/Mar 2022 in this thread,
You
Show my words. Put up or shut up.
Post Reply

Return to “POLITICS”