QF #3 Hopkins vs #6 Virginia Sunday @2:30

[stupefied]

Hopkins lost a 3 goal lead in 4q because UVA asserted themselves not because of a perceived fraction of a inch on crease call.

If the goal had been waved off , Id be telling thing UVA fans that they lost because of their crappy start and Ierland goaltending not a subjective call on a fraction of a inch

[jhu72]

Hopkins lost a 3 goal lead in 4q because UVA asserted themselves not because of a perceived fraction of a inch on crease call.

If the goal had been waved off , Id be telling thing UVA fans that they lost because of their crappy start and Ierland goaltending not a subjective call on a fraction of a inch

If a half inch doesn't matter, stop playing the game of video review. PERIOD!!! If the NCAA isn't going to do it right, then they and the fans should stop pretending!!!

[HopFan16]

Hopkins lost a 3 goal lead in 4q because UVA asserted themselves not because of a perceived fraction of a inch on crease call.

If the goal had been waved off , Id be telling thing UVA fans that they lost because of their crappy start and Ierland goaltending not a subjective call on a fraction of a inch

I mean one of the goals given up with the 3 goal lead was the one in question. Feel like that should probably be part of your narrative. They didn't give up a 3-goal lead independent of the crease one. If UVA lost and their fans felt that it'd probably be because they knew the correct call was made.

Doesn't matter now. The call was made and what happened happened. Time to move on

[cmbtp88]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

[primitiveskills]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

Hopkins clearly chose to have someone on Cormier's hands at all times, at the expense letting others (especially Boyden) get shots. It wasn't a bad strategy. Almost worked.

[BigTom5]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

You obviously didn’t watch the game closely (or don’t know what you are looking at). He wasn’t face guarded at all. He wasn’t triple teamed. He got the same looks he always gets. He had shots on the crease when cutting the front and back pipes, he got 6 yd shots from the high crease, he got time and rooms from the left wing. He just didn’t can any of them. Was an atypical off game, which happens in the sport, not some defensive scheme or adjustment.

[primitiveskills]

Sorry to p*ss in the punch bowl, but the NCAA rules committee and the referees were made to look incompetent by the UVA goal which resulted in the game going into overtime. It was not a close call! The player stepped on the line prior to the ball entering the goal and prior to his own release of the ball. Close examination of the video clip on a computer shows this. This was not a case of not enough information to overturn the call. It was clear. There are only two ways the referees could have missed this call, 1) the equipment they were using or 2) they didn't want for human reasons having to do with blame for changing the outcome of the game. They were going to take that blame in either case, I could not be avoided. Perhaps they had a preference for which side of the blame they thought more acceptable.

Some have said the crease lines should be a color capable of showing better contrast - this is a good idea, but again not necessary in this case. The correct call could have been made as the coloring stood. Trying to do this analysis on inferior equipment or in the glare of the sun could cause problems.

No matter the reason - they missed the call! MLB does a much better job with video review, they use first rate video equipment in a darkened room where glare is not an issue and remove the human factor by making the call remotely (an individual who will not take heat from a coach in his face).

The other possibility is stop doing video review if you are not going to commit to doing the best job you can.

There's one maddening and completely avoidable aspect of video review that has made it a disaster across the sports where it's been applied (with one exception). That is, making the technology subject to the call on the field. Why should the call on the field matter? Presumably, you're reviewing plays that are subject to a high rate of error when called in real-time. Let the technology make the call. Oherwise, you end up with a situation where there is an image of the guy stepping on the crease (objective) that is over-ridden by a human official getting to decide whether that should make him reverse his call (subjective).

Premier League soccer and the NFL are good examples of how this has made the sport worse. Professional tennis, on the other hand, gets it right. Humans aren't involved in line calls anymore. The technology decides. Easy.

[BigTom5]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

Hopkins clearly chose to have someone on Cormier's hands at all times, at the expense letting others (especially Boyden) get shots. It wasn't a bad strategy. Almost worked.

I guess you don’t know ball as well…

[primitiveskills]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

Hopkins clearly chose to have someone on Cormier's hands at all times, at the expense letting others (especially Boyden) get shots. It wasn't a bad strategy. Almost worked.

I guess you don’t know ball as well…

LOL. I'm not sure I would use "face-guarding", but they also didn't slide off of Cormier much, if at all. But since you really "know ball", maybe you can walk me through the slide scheme?

[BigTom5]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

Hopkins clearly chose to have someone on Cormier's hands at all times, at the expense letting others (especially Boyden) get shots. It wasn't a bad strategy. Almost worked.

I guess you don’t know ball as well…

LOL. I'm not sure I would use "face-guarding", but they also didn't slide off of Cormier much, if at all. But since you really "know ball", maybe you can walk me through the slide scheme?

No problem.

Here is a link to the game, takes 5 minutes to watch all the shots: https://youtu.be/HziQBOwshY4?si=PYQFIJP75vM8jsyk

Will break down the first half for you:
Q1 10:30: Wide open on front pipe, hit crossbar
Q1 4:45: Open on high crease, hits left pipe
Q1 4:41: Wide open on front pipe, save Irelan
Bonus 4:28 - that slash on Shellenberger is very very soft
Q2 9:55- Dodges to middle, shoots from 9yds wide
Q2 2:57: Man Up, wide open look from the lower left corner, hits left pipe
Q2 1:36: Irelan out of the cage, cormier catches on the back pipe and misses a wide open net

They slid off Cormier, left him open continuously, he just didn’t make them pay (and hit a lot of pipes). Watch those clips and tell me otherwise…

[primitiveskills]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

Hopkins clearly chose to have someone on Cormier's hands at all times, at the expense letting others (especially Boyden) get shots. It wasn't a bad strategy. Almost worked.

I guess you don’t know ball as well…

LOL. I'm not sure I would use "face-guarding", but they also didn't slide off of Cormier much, if at all. But since you really "know ball", maybe you can walk me through the slide scheme?

No problem.

Here is a link to the game, takes 5 minutes to watch all the shots: https://youtu.be/HziQBOwshY4?si=PYQFIJP75vM8jsyk

Will break down the first half for you:
Q1 10:30: Wide open on front pipe, hit crossbar
Q1 4:45: Open on high crease, hits left pipe
Q1 4:41: Wide open on front pipe, save Irelan
Bonus 4:28 - that slash on Shellenberger is very very soft
Q2 9:55- Dodges to middle, shoots from 9yds wide
Q2 2:57: Man Up, wide open look from the lower left corner, hits left pipe
Q2 1:36: Irelan out of the cage, cormier catches on the back pipe and misses a wide open net

They slid off Cormier, left him open continuously, he just didn’t make them pay (and hit a lot of pipes). Watch those clips and tell me otherwise…

I understand that Cormier got shots. He did not get his usual fill of open mid-range looks resulting from his defender sliding to the ball. My point is that the Hopkins rarely slid from him and that he was a point of emphasis. One the first shot, they set an off-ball pick on the crease and the Hopkins SSDM screws up and doesn't switch it. No slide. The second shot he is bracketed by two poles; its a great feed by Millon, but there's really no time-and-room. He gets the shot off regardless but it is contested. Third shot Hopkins defender is ball-watching off the restart. No slide. The fourth shot, Cormier is doubled, tries to swim the double, and manages to get off a weak contested shot. Fifth shot is man-up, agree this is the type of look that he usually cans. Sixth shot, Shellenberger hangs up his defender, he finds Cormier when Ierlan goes behind to play the hang-up, but Cormier has Raposo's stick in his hands an the shot hits Ierlan when he's several feet wide of the cage.

Again, JHU made it a point to limit the number of time-and-room shots that Cormier can destroy you with. Some of that was bracketing him on the crease, some was not sliding off of him (there's a reason you didn't hear Szuluk's name that much). His goal was one of the few real time-and-room looks he got the entire game.

[1766]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

Hopkins clearly chose to have someone on Cormier's hands at all times, at the expense letting others (especially Boyden) get shots. It wasn't a bad strategy. Almost worked.

I guess you don’t know ball as well…

LOL. I'm not sure I would use "face-guarding", but they also didn't slide off of Cormier much, if at all. But since you really "know ball", maybe you can walk me through the slide scheme?

No problem.

Here is a link to the game, takes 5 minutes to watch all the shots: https://youtu.be/HziQBOwshY4?si=PYQFIJP75vM8jsyk

Will break down the first half for you:
Q1 10:30: Wide open on front pipe, hit crossbar
Q1 4:45: Open on high crease, hits left pipe
Q1 4:41: Wide open on front pipe, save Irelan
Bonus 4:28 - that slash on Shellenberger is very very soft
Q2 9:55- Dodges to middle, shoots from 9yds wide
Q2 2:57: Man Up, wide open look from the lower left corner, hits left pipe
Q2 1:36: Irelan out of the cage, cormier catches on the back pipe and misses a wide open net

They slid off Cormier, left him open continuously, he just didn’t make them pay (and hit a lot of pipes). Watch those clips and tell me otherwise…

Pipes are missed shots. Nothing more.

Uva was very fortunate. Hopkins gave that game away.

[jhu72]

Sorry to p*ss in the punch bowl, but the NCAA rules committee and the referees were made to look incompetent by the UVA goal which resulted in the game going into overtime. It was not a close call! The player stepped on the line prior to the ball entering the goal and prior to his own release of the ball. Close examination of the video clip on a computer shows this. This was not a case of not enough information to overturn the call. It was clear. There are only two ways the referees could have missed this call, 1) the equipment they were using or 2) they didn't want for human reasons having to do with blame for changing the outcome of the game. They were going to take that blame in either case, I could not be avoided. Perhaps they had a preference for which side of the blame they thought more acceptable.

Some have said the crease lines should be a color capable of showing better contrast - this is a good idea, but again not necessary in this case. The correct call could have been made as the coloring stood. Trying to do this analysis on inferior equipment or in the glare of the sun could cause problems.

No matter the reason - they missed the call! MLB does a much better job with video review, they use first rate video equipment in a darkened room where glare is not an issue and remove the human factor by making the call remotely (an individual who will not take heat from a coach in his face).

The other possibility is stop doing video review if you are not going to commit to doing the best job you can.

There's one maddening and completely avoidable aspect of video review that has made it a disaster across the sports where it's been applied (with one exception). That is, making the technology subject to the call on the field. Why should the call on the field matter? Presumably, you're reviewing plays that are subject to a high rate of error when called in real-time. Let the technology make the call. Oherwise, you end up with a situation where there is an image of the guy stepping on the crease (objective) that is over-ridden by a human official getting to decide whether that should make him reverse his call (subjective).

Premier League soccer and the NFL are good examples of how this has made the sport worse. Professional tennis, on the other hand, gets it right. Humans aren't involved in line calls anymore. The technology decides. Easy.

I agree. The technology is ready in some cases. One place that they should turn the game over to the computers is baseball balls and strikes. Ball and strike umps are real breasts ( ), or at least the computer has shown them to be.

You would have to say that to this point, the use of video review in college lacrosse has been a failed experiment.

[tech37]

Anyone else think the Hop defense was gassed?

[jhu72]

Anyone else think the Hop defense was gassed?

... yes, but no more so than UVA.

[coda]

Hop let one slip. You have to be questioning overall philosophy going into a shell before the 4th quarter even starts.

Correct, totally let one slip. UVAs offense could not finish to save their life. The fact that Cormier missed his first 10 shots, all normally dunks for him, most with his hands free, was like hitting the lottery. That and Lars starting a goalie who he admitted wasn’t seeing the ball all week in practice, should have been enough of an advantage to get Hop a win.

Cormier was being face guarded all game, and had 3 guys on him ever time he touched the ball, that is why Boyden had 3 goals, Shelly had 3 goals, and Millon had 3 goals, now your going to say the all time leading goal scorer in NCAA history can't finish? good call...

Hopkins clearly chose to have someone on Cormier's hands at all times, at the expense letting others (especially Boyden) get shots. It wasn't a bad strategy. Almost worked.

I guess you don’t know ball as well…

LOL. I'm not sure I would use "face-guarding", but they also didn't slide off of Cormier much, if at all. But since you really "know ball", maybe you can walk me through the slide scheme?

No problem.

Here is a link to the game, takes 5 minutes to watch all the shots: https://youtu.be/HziQBOwshY4?si=PYQFIJP75vM8jsyk

Will break down the first half for you:
Q1 10:30: Wide open on front pipe, hit crossbar
Q1 4:45: Open on high crease, hits left pipe
Q1 4:41: Wide open on front pipe, save Irelan
Bonus 4:28 - that slash on Shellenberger is very very soft
Q2 9:55- Dodges to middle, shoots from 9yds wide
Q2 2:57: Man Up, wide open look from the lower left corner, hits left pipe
Q2 1:36: Irelan out of the cage, cormier catches on the back pipe and misses a wide open net

They slid off Cormier, left him open continuously, he just didn’t make them pay (and hit a lot of pipes). Watch those clips and tell me otherwise…

I understand that Cormier got shots. He did not get his usual fill of open mid-range looks resulting from his defender sliding to the ball. My point is that the Hopkins rarely slid from him and that he was a point of emphasis. One the first shot, they set an off-ball pick on the crease and the Hopkins SSDM screws up and doesn't switch it. No slide. The second shot he is bracketed by two poles; its a great feed by Millon, but there's really no time-and-room. He gets the shot off regardless but it is contested. Third shot Hopkins defender is ball-watching off the restart. No slide. The fourth shot, Cormier is doubled, tries to swim the double, and manages to get off a weak contested shot. Fifth shot is man-up, agree this is the type of look that he usually cans. Sixth shot, Shellenberger hangs up his defender, he finds Cormier when Ierlan goes behind to play the hang-up, but Cormier has Raposo's stick in his hands an the shot hits Ierlan when he's several feet wide of the cage.

Again, JHU made it a point to limit the number of time-and-room shots that Cormier can destroy you with. Some of that was bracketing him on the crease, some was not sliding off of him (there's a reason you didn't hear Szuluk's name that much). His goal was one of the few real time-and-room looks he got the entire game.

This is probably a case of where its more like 50/50. Cormier missed some shot, but Hopkins was face guarding him at times. That probably threw him off his game. You make a shooter uncomfortable and that can have a lasting effect, even when he is open later.

[HopFan16]

Anyone else think the Hop defense was gassed?

Everyone on the field was

Didn't help that they lost Brett Martin, their best SSDM and energy guy, at the most crucial stretch of the game. That's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes

[tech37]

Anyone else think the Hop defense was gassed?

... yes, but no more so than UVA.

hmmm...4th qtr production may say otherwise

[primitiveskills]

Anyone else think the Hop defense was gassed?

I think everyone was gassed by the second overtime. Well, except for #1 in blue.

[primitiveskills]

Anyone else think the Hop defense was gassed?

Everyone on the field was

Didn't help that they lost Brett Martin, their best SSDM and energy guy, at the most crucial stretch of the game. That's the way the cookie crumbles sometimes

Any word on Martin? Looked bad. Crappy way to go out for a guy that was so good for so long.