Orange Duce

[a fan]

It is also now absolutely clear, in the record of a criminal trial, that Trump was doing personal and Trump Organization business in the White House (putting aside the grifting bribe center established a few blocks away). He spoke with his CFO "everyday." Signed checks on TO accounts and personal accounts for business everyday. Why doesn't anyone care? You know to a moral certainty that if Obama had done this -- operated a for-profit enterprise while sitting at the Resolute Desk -- the right would swallow their tongues in spasms of outrage. But the cult doesn't care because the orange chosen one is doing it? The corrosive effect of this guy, and his followers' stupefying indulgence for his conduct, is really off the charts.

Doesn't matter how many times you point this out. They've gone so far off the deep end, they think that indictments, getting caught in lies, and propping up a moron as President "stick it to the other side". As if we're talking about college football, or something.

Meanwhile, the working class that Trump and his supporters and apologist SWEAR is who Trump caters to, is royally F'ed like they have never been before.

Can anyone name an adult Republican with any sort of power that's going to take the wheel, and steer this party back to even just where Reagan was?

Nope. This will take DECADES to fix. We're already at year 12 of this sh(t.

[MDlaxfan76]

Maybe. Ideally, you'd like to go out on a high note. Start strong (they did with Pecker) and end strong. A paper witness would be blah. But you can't always orchestrate things as you'd necessarily like. Like your family, you can't pick your witnesses.

This might be a complete list of who the Judge read to the jurors.
https://www.justsecurity.org/94696/trum ... witnesses/

Long list but many probably wouldn't be prosecution witnesses.

Thanks. Maybe Melania will be the last witness.

I never was admitted in NY and never practiced criminal law. But at trials and hearings I had, you always knew who the other side was going to call next. They would tell you. You might start out before trial with a long list like the one you cited, but once you got into trial, you would be told who would or might be called the next day. Now, I did civil work and don't remember if that was simply courtesy or protocol. Don't remember it actually being in a pre-trial order.

What I have heard is that the prosecution successfully argued to the judge that they shouldn't be required to tell the defense whom they are going to call next because of the risk that Trump would tweet about the witness or get his goons to harass the witness or worse.

All reasonable fears, but why not a rule that the prosecution has to tell the defense team who is coming up, but that the defense can't tell anyone (including Trump, himself) other than lawyers on the team and their staff? In civil litigation, sometimes you would designate documents in discovery as being for "attorney's eyes only." In such case, the attorney couldn't show the document to the client. Don't know why they couldn't have a similar rule for witnesses here.

Maybe criminal practice in NY state courts is different. Just seems that it would put the other side at a real disadvantage to not know who is coming next, especially for the big witnesses like Pecker, Stormy, and Cohen. (I assume the same rule will apply when the defense is putting on their case.)

My hunch would be that the duty to the criminal defendant overrules an instruction not to tell him, so if he demands to know...and Trump had already demonstrated an unwillingness to not talk about witnesses and anyone else in ways potentially intimidating. The compromise was to tell them day before. It's not as if the defense doesn't know who everyone is...or the judge doesn't trust defense counsel, either...but my hunch would be matter of duty plus Trump's proven behavior.

I doubt that the rule goes the other way because there's been no such issue with the prosecution. But it might and that's fine.

Note, they gave more notice on Cohen. And let defense know they're not planning on calling McDougal anymore.

[njbill]

A court order would trump any “duty“ to the client.

Maybe things have changed towards the end of the prosecution case now, but earlier on the reporting was that the defense did not know who was coming next.

Now the prosecution says they will have two more witnesses, one of whom will be Cohen. Not sure who the other one is.

Hard for me to believe any rule on witnesses would not be reciprocal.

[Olderbarndog]

It is also now absolutely clear, in the record of a criminal trial, that Trump was doing personal and Trump Organization business in the White House (putting aside the grifting bribe center established a few blocks away). He spoke with his CFO "everyday." Signed checks on TO accounts and personal accounts for business everyday. Why doesn't anyone care? You know to a moral certainty that if Obama had done this -- operated a for-profit enterprise while sitting at the Resolute Desk -- the right would swallow their tongues in spasms of outrage. But the cult doesn't care because the orange chosen one is doing it? The corrosive effect of this guy, and his followers' stupefying indulgence for his conduct, is really off the charts.

My understanding of financial matters is pretty limited, of human nature much broader. So, if Mr. Trump had tapped his own piggy bank and paid in cash???? Just asking.

Honestly, not sure what you're asking.

OBdog may be asking whether it would be a crime to have paid Stormy directly out of his personal checking account, no go between, and not taken it as a business deduction or in any other way tried to hide what it was, a hush money payment? Not "legal services".

Assuming it's clear that it was at least in part to prevent the story from coming out prior to the election, it would still have been a campaign violation unless it was reported as a donation of value to the campaign...which as candidate he's free to do. But he obviously didn't want public disclosure that he'd done it, which the campaign law transparency would have outed, eventually.

But if he didn't report it, campaign law violation...I don't recall whether misdemeanor or felony but nowhere as serious as what he did instead which was to go through all sorts of machinations to hide it.

The defense would have had the argument that this wasn't because of the election and, without all the subterfuge, that at least might have been plausible, albeit, hmmm. But the subterfuge makes this clearly an effort to deceive and makes all the defense arguments super questionable, whereas the testimony about intent to bury pre-election is much more compelling.

I think the grossing up so that Cohen could pay taxes on it is the by far most damning evidence of the intent to hide. Pretending it was payment for actual legal services is totally phony and obviously so. And that intent to hide what they'd done, which was to bury a story pre-election, as they'd done with another story, compounds greatly the offense.

Much clearer, much appreciated. Tx.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C4gbhoeR ... BiNWFlZA==

[MDlaxfan76]

A court order would trump any “duty“ to the client.

Maybe things have changed towards the end of the prosecution case now, but earlier on the reporting was that the defense did not know who was coming next.

Now the prosecution says they will have two more witnesses, one of whom will be Cohen. Not sure who the other one is.

Hard for me to believe any rule on witnesses would not be reciprocal.

Do I recall that telling the opposition who may be called during the trial is required, but when and in what order is only a courtesy? But a common courtesy?

But when the prosecution grew concerned with Trump's behavior towards the court personnel and family and the anger built on social media grew, they were concerned about witness intimidation...and said they wouldn't tell the defense anything, defense objected and asked judge to get involved...and prosecution agreed to disclose the night before calling a particular witness. Is that what went down?

Agreed, probably shouldn't expect anything different from defense if only out of pique.

[Typical Lax Dad]

But what about Hunter and the Biden crime syndicate??!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/11/us/t ... icago.html

[a fan]

But what about Hunter and the Biden crime syndicate??!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/11/us/t ... icago.html

You can't possibly think that a single Republican on the Forum, or elsewhere, will do anything other than blame the prosecutors for Trump not following our laws?

Rock bottom was passed YEARS ago with this crew.

[Typical Lax Dad]

But what about Hunter and the Biden crime syndicate??!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/11/us/t ... icago.html

You can't possibly think that a single Republican on the Forum, or elsewhere, will do anything other than blame the prosecutors for Trump not following our laws?

Rock bottom was passed YEARS ago with this crew.

The Biden DOJ is being weaponized. Show me the man….one of the Bush’s ran his investment practice out of our company. I wonder why Obama didn’t send his DOJ after the Bush family?

[cradleandshoot]

But what about Hunter and the Biden crime syndicate??!!

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/11/us/t ... icago.html

You can't possibly think that a single Republican on the Forum, or elsewhere, will do anything other than blame the prosecutors for Trump not following our laws?

Rock bottom was passed YEARS ago with this crew.

The Biden DOJ is being weaponized. Show me the man….one of the Bush’s ran his investment practice out of our company. I wonder why Obama didn’t send his DOJ after the Bush family?

Objection your honor, no relevance to reality.... Nobody gives a fig about the Obama DoJ. Nobody gives a fig about the Bush DoJ. What's in the rearview mirror is not important. Try and focus in the here and now.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.cnn.com/2024/05/11/politics ... index.html

[cradleandshoot]

Trump has one thing right. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to s**t.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Trump has one thing right. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to s**t.

So out of touch. Swamped by the wave of misinformation.

[cradleandshoot]

Trump has one thing right. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to s**t.

So out of touch. Swamped by the wave of misinformation.

Or more likely drowning in an ocean of FLP liberal bullchit. In little more than a week Uncle Joe misinformed us all about his teacher that was drafted by the Green Bay Packers and his Uncle Bosey was eaten by scuba diving cannibals and so on and so on and so and so on. What was your point again that had your panties all twisted up? I remember now... misinformation.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Trump has one thing right. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to s**t.

So out of touch. Swamped by the wave of misinformation.

Or more likely drowning in an ocean of FLP liberal bullchit. In little more than a week Uncle Joe misinformed us all about his teacher that was drafted by the Green Bay Packers and his Uncle Bosey was eaten by scuba diving cannibals and so on and so on and so and so on. What was your point again that had your panties all twisted up? I remember now... misinformation.

I can see how Joe's exaggerations and storytelling must adversely affect your life. So better try authoritarians for a while.

[cradleandshoot]

Trump has one thing right. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to s**t.

So out of touch. Swamped by the wave of misinformation.

Or more likely drowning in an ocean of FLP liberal bullchit. In little more than a week Uncle Joe misinformed us all about his teacher that was drafted by the Green Bay Packers and his Uncle Bosey was eaten by scuba diving cannibals and so on and so on and so and so on. What was your point again that had your panties all twisted up? I remember now... misinformation.

I can see how Joe's exaggerations and storytelling must adversely affect your life. So better try authoritarians for a while.

Joe can sure spin a yarn now can't he? What did you say about authoritarian? You have no concerns about Joes incessant verbal abuse and degrading and insulting his own staff? That is a classic sign of not only an authoritarian type but a strait up rectal orifice as well. FTR counselor how frequently do you now or ever have verbally abused and degraded the people who work for you? Except for yours truly I don't think your the type of boss that would verbally abuse an employee. FTR I don't think trump is any different. In trumps own words it isn't personal it's business. I'm guessing that if trump wins in November it will get real personal with the mother of all vendettas to be implemented.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Trump has one thing right. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to s**t.

So out of touch. Swamped by the wave of misinformation.

Or more likely drowning in an ocean of FLP liberal bullchit. In little more than a week Uncle Joe misinformed us all about his teacher that was drafted by the Green Bay Packers and his Uncle Bosey was eaten by scuba diving cannibals and so on and so on and so and so on. What was your point again that had your panties all twisted up? I remember now... misinformation.

I can see how Joe's exaggerations and storytelling must adversely affect your life. So better try authoritarians for a while.

Joe can sure spin a yarn now can't he? What did you say about authoritarian? You have no concerns about Joes incessant verbal abuse and degrading and insulting his own staff? That is a classic sign of not only an authoritarian type but a strait up rectal orifice as well. FTR counselor how frequently do you now or ever have verbally abused and degraded the people who work for you? Except for yours truly I don't think your the type of boss that would verbally abuse an employee.

You really are an example. What is your strange fixation with Biden's supposed treatment of his staff? The stuff you fix on is very odd. You're odd.

[cradleandshoot]

Trump has one thing right. Everything Joe Biden touches turns to s**t.

So out of touch. Swamped by the wave of misinformation.

Or more likely drowning in an ocean of FLP liberal bullchit. In little more than a week Uncle Joe misinformed us all about his teacher that was drafted by the Green Bay Packers and his Uncle Bosey was eaten by scuba diving cannibals and so on and so on and so and so on. What was your point again that had your panties all twisted up? I remember now... misinformation.

I can see how Joe's exaggerations and storytelling must adversely affect your life. So better try authoritarians for a while.

Joe can sure spin a yarn now can't he? What did you say about authoritarian? You have no concerns about Joes incessant verbal abuse and degrading and insulting his own staff? That is a classic sign of not only an authoritarian type but a strait up rectal orifice as well. FTR counselor how frequently do you now or ever have verbally abused and degraded the people who work for you? Except for yours truly I don't think your the type of boss that would verbally abuse an employee.

You really are an example. What is your strange fixation with Biden's supposed treatment of his staff? The stuff you fix on is very odd. You're odd.

Easy peasy counselor, how you treat your people is a reflection on who you are. Do you think Obama verbally abused his staff on a regular basis? Do you think GWB verbally abused his staff on a regular basis? Do you think trump verbally abused his staff on a regular basis? Yes he did but he verbally abuses anyone on any given day. That refects as equally on trump as it does with Biden IMO. Hence one of the reasons I will not vote for either candidate. I may be odd counselor but I'm not dense like you are. You'll turn a blind eye in a heartbeat if you don't like what your seeing. All you see is kind, sweet and loveable Uncle Joe. Come to think of it your pretty damn odd in your right. Enjoy the rest of your day counselor.

[Seacoaster(1)]

How do you know Biden "abuses his staff on a daily basis"?

[cradleandshoot]

How do you know Biden "abuses his staff on a daily basis"?

Because it has been widely reported and includes members of his own staff. Have you tried doing a Google search there counselor? I hope your better prepared than this when you go to court? The results are there for you to read should you choose to do so. What it shows is kind, sweet and loveable Uncle Joe isn't what or who he portrays to be to the American people. If your fine with it then I'm fine with it. Otherwise...GET THE F**K OUT OF MY OFFICE ... I think about ALL of the lectures I've been given on this forum about civility. I guess the POTUS can exempt himself from civility?