https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/05/ ... ver-again/
Biden’s Dangerous Misreading of ‘Never Again’
by THE EDITORS, May 8, 2024
Speaking at a Holocaust remembrance ceremony, President Biden addressed the slaughter of 6 million Jews by Nazis during World War II, which he then linked to the Hamas attacks of October 7. The same day, it was confirmed that his administration had paused delivery of lethal aid to Israel over its intention to invade Rafah — a necessary move to destroy Hamas and prevent future attacks.
While this would seem contradictory on the surface, one line from the speech makes it clear where Biden is coming from. “Never again,” Biden told the audience, “simply translated for me, means ‘never forget.’”
But “never again” requires taking actions today that may be politically difficult in real time.
In the wake of October 7, Biden seemed to understand that preventing further atrocities required supporting the efforts of Israelis to destroy those responsible. About a week after the massacres, Biden said that Hamas needed to be entirely eliminated. He said that the U.S. commitment to Israel’s security was “ironclad” and that he had Israel’s back.
But in the face of mounting political pressure from within his party to abandon his support for Israel, Biden buckled. For months, Biden has twisted Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s arm privately and lashed out publicly in an effort to prevent Israel from taking out Hamas’s remaining stronghold in Rafah, which is also believed to be the location of the hostages still being held. This week, as Israel took targeted action at the Rafah crossing along the border between Gaza and Egypt — the exact sort of limited engagement that the Biden team previously said they were okay with — administration officials disclosed that the U.S. had taken the dramatic step of pausing shipments of bombs that are ready to go to Israel.
While the initial move may be limited, on Wednesday night, Biden threatened Israel with a broader cutoff of ammunition. He told CNN, “If they go into Rafah, I’m not supplying the weapons that have been used historically to deal with Rafah, to deal with the cities — that deal with that problem.”
Until recently, the administration’s rhetoric has focused on a “major attack.” But National Security Council spokesman John Kirby now says that “we don’t support ground operations in Rafah that would put the majority or even any of the — the civilians there at any greater risk.”
Saying that absolutely no civilians can be put at any sort of heightened risk during an urban warfare campaign against an enemy that hides behind civilians as part of its war strategy is effectively the same thing as saying that Israel cannot be allowed to fight Hamas. What this means is that, in effect, it is now the policy of the Biden administration to leave Hamas in power.
Just before the limited Israeli incursion into Rafah, media organizations breathlessly ran with the headline that Hamas had accepted a “cease-fire.” It soon became clear that the terrorist group had actually released a completely untenable new proposal that, along with other outrageous demands, said 33 hostages to be traded in exchange for a cease-fire might include hostages who are dead.
It’s no surprise that Hamas is so dug in, given that Biden’s response every time Hamas rejects an offer is to ratchet up the pressure on Israel to make more concessions. And given that Biden is protecting Hamas from an Israeli operation in Rafah, the terrorist group is feeling no military pressure.
By pausing the transfer of bombs to Israel — with a clear threat of halting further aid — Biden is not only letting Hamas off the hook, but also emboldening Iran and its other terror proxies.
Under Biden’s formulation — in which “never again” means “never forget” — simply talking about the horrors of October 7 in the past tense is sufficient. But if “never again” actually means “never again,” then it requires supporting the world’s only Jewish state in its efforts to destroy the terrorist group that is responsible for that horrific attack so that it can never massacre Jews again.
Israel and Zionism
Re: Israel and Zionism
Biden doublespeak. With allies like Biden, who needs enemies ?
Re: Israel and Zionism
So what is your limit Salty?
80% civilian casualties? 90%?
How many schools and homes destroyed? All of them?
Whatever Bibi says? Without question or condition?
Just keep an unlimited flow of munitions no questions asked?
80% civilian casualties? 90%?
How many schools and homes destroyed? All of them?
Whatever Bibi says? Without question or condition?
Just keep an unlimited flow of munitions no questions asked?
Boycott stupid. If you ignore the gator troll, eventually he'll just go back under his bridge.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Plenty of questions are asked, before every action.
The IDF is taking unprecedented precautions to prevent civilian casualties.
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-ha ... s-in-gaza/
Israel is going to continue regardless. Withholding small diameter bombs & other precision guided munitions will only increase civilian casualties.
This is how we took down ISIS in Syria & Iraq. Where was the hand wringing then ?
Let the IDF finish this ASAP, eliminate Hamas & put Fatah in charge. That will result in the least long term bloodshed.
Evacuate the target areas or stay & die for Hamas.
The IDF is taking unprecedented precautions to prevent civilian casualties.
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-ha ... s-in-gaza/
Israel is going to continue regardless. Withholding small diameter bombs & other precision guided munitions will only increase civilian casualties.
This is how we took down ISIS in Syria & Iraq. Where was the hand wringing then ?
Let the IDF finish this ASAP, eliminate Hamas & put Fatah in charge. That will result in the least long term bloodshed.
Evacuate the target areas or stay & die for Hamas.
-
cradleandshoot
- Posts: 14247
- Joined: Fri Oct 05, 2018 4:42 pm
Re: Israel and Zionism
No questions as to why your Hamas friends are still hiding in their rat holes? They picked this fight for some unknown reason. They are getting their asses handed to them. If they decided to finish what they started there would not be civilians being killed. I'll say it again, WAR IS HELL. Hamas is deliberately hiding behind skirts and using civilians as human shields. Like so many other people...you don't get it. You act as if this is the first time innocent people have died from being caught in the middle of a conflict. Buckle your chin strap tighter counselor. The killing isn't over yet. It could end tomorrow if your Hamas friends would give it up for the sake of the deaths of innocent civilians that they are deliberately putting in harms way. You do understand that your Hamas friends don't give 2 chits about what happens to the Palestinian people. Lest you forget, the Palestinian people elected Hamas. It appears they are now having buyers remorse.
I use to be a people person until people ruined that for me.
-
PizzaSnake
- Posts: 4906
- Joined: Tue Mar 05, 2019 8:36 pm
Re: Israel and Zionism
"Hey, Friedman, but what about all the violence that Israeli settlers perpetrated against Palestinians and how Bibi Netanyahu deliberately built up Hamas and undermined the Palestinian Authority, which embraced Oslo?
Answer: That violence and those Netanyahu actions are awful and harmful to a two-state solution as well. That is why I am intensely both anti-Hamas and anti-Netanyahu. And if you oppose just one and not also the other, you should reflect a little more on what you are shouting at your protest or your anti-protest. Because no one has done more to harm the prospects of a two-state solution than the codependent Hamas and Netanyahu factions.
Hamas is not against the post-1967 occupation. It is against the existence of a Jewish state and believes there should be an Islamic state between the river and the sea. When protests on college campuses ignore that, they are part of the problem. Just as much as Israel supporters who ignore the fact that the far-right members in Netanyahu’s own coalition government are for a Jewish state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. How do I know? Because Netanyahu wrote it into the coalition agreement between himself and his far-right partners."
"The third reason that these protests have become part of the problem is that they ignore the view of many Palestinians in Gaza who detest Hamas’s autocracy. These Palestinians are enraged by precisely what these student demonstrations ignore: Hamas launched this war without permission from the Gazan population and without preparation for Gazans to protect themselves when Hamas knew that a brutal Israeli response would follow. In fact, a Hamas official said at the start of the war that its tunnels were for only its fighters, not civilians.
That is not to excuse Israel in the least for its excesses, but, again, it is also not to give Hamas a pass for inviting them.
My view: Hamas was ready to sacrifice thousands of Gazan civilians to win the support of the next global generation on TikTok. And it worked. But one reason it worked was a lack of critical thinking by too many in that generation — the result of a campus culture that has become way too much about what to think and not how to think.
I highly recommend a few different articles about how angry Gazans are at Hamas for starting this war without any goal in mind other than the fruitless task of trying to destroy Israel so Hamas’s leader, Yahya Sinwar, could get his personal revenge.
I was particularly struck by a piece in The National, a newspaper in Abu Dhabi, by Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a Palestinian American raised in Gaza. The headline is: “Israel’s War Has Killed 31 Members of My Family, Yet It’s Vital to Speak Out Against Hamas.” Alkhatib placed Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack in the context of the rising protests against its inept and autocrat rule that have broken out periodically in Gaza since 2019, under the banner of “We Want to Live.”"
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/opin ... -gaza.html
Answer: That violence and those Netanyahu actions are awful and harmful to a two-state solution as well. That is why I am intensely both anti-Hamas and anti-Netanyahu. And if you oppose just one and not also the other, you should reflect a little more on what you are shouting at your protest or your anti-protest. Because no one has done more to harm the prospects of a two-state solution than the codependent Hamas and Netanyahu factions.
Hamas is not against the post-1967 occupation. It is against the existence of a Jewish state and believes there should be an Islamic state between the river and the sea. When protests on college campuses ignore that, they are part of the problem. Just as much as Israel supporters who ignore the fact that the far-right members in Netanyahu’s own coalition government are for a Jewish state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. How do I know? Because Netanyahu wrote it into the coalition agreement between himself and his far-right partners."
"The third reason that these protests have become part of the problem is that they ignore the view of many Palestinians in Gaza who detest Hamas’s autocracy. These Palestinians are enraged by precisely what these student demonstrations ignore: Hamas launched this war without permission from the Gazan population and without preparation for Gazans to protect themselves when Hamas knew that a brutal Israeli response would follow. In fact, a Hamas official said at the start of the war that its tunnels were for only its fighters, not civilians.
That is not to excuse Israel in the least for its excesses, but, again, it is also not to give Hamas a pass for inviting them.
My view: Hamas was ready to sacrifice thousands of Gazan civilians to win the support of the next global generation on TikTok. And it worked. But one reason it worked was a lack of critical thinking by too many in that generation — the result of a campus culture that has become way too much about what to think and not how to think.
I highly recommend a few different articles about how angry Gazans are at Hamas for starting this war without any goal in mind other than the fruitless task of trying to destroy Israel so Hamas’s leader, Yahya Sinwar, could get his personal revenge.
I was particularly struck by a piece in The National, a newspaper in Abu Dhabi, by Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a Palestinian American raised in Gaza. The headline is: “Israel’s War Has Killed 31 Members of My Family, Yet It’s Vital to Speak Out Against Hamas.” Alkhatib placed Hamas’s Oct. 7 attack in the context of the rising protests against its inept and autocrat rule that have broken out periodically in Gaza since 2019, under the banner of “We Want to Live.”"
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/08/opin ... -gaza.html
"There is nothing more difficult and more dangerous to carry through than initiating changes. One makes enemies of those who prospered under the old order, and only lukewarm support from those who would prosper under the new."
Re: Israel and Zionism
I thought this episode was excellent. https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/maki ... arfare-2-0
EPISODE 366
Urban Warfare 2.0
A Conversation with John Spencer
MAY 7, 2024
Sam Harris speaks with John Spencer about the reality of urban warfare and Israel's conduct in the war in Gaza. They discuss the nature of the Hamas attacks on October 7th, what was most surprising about the Hamas videos, the difficulty in distinguishing Hamas from the rest of the population, combatants as a reflection of a society's values, how many people have been killed in Gaza, the proportion of combatants and noncombatants, the double standards to which the IDF is held, the worst criticism that can be made of Israel and the IDF, intentions vs results, what is unique about the war in Gaza, Hamas's use of human shields, what it would mean to defeat Hamas, what the IDF has accomplished so far, the destruction of the Gaza tunnel system, the details of underground warfare, the rescue of hostages, how noncombatants become combatants, how difficult it is to interpret videos of combat, what victory would look like, the likely aftermath of the war, war with Hezbollah, Iran's attack on Israel, what to do about Iran, and other topics.
John Spencer is an award-winning scholar, professor, author, and combat veteran. He currently serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point, Co-Director of the Urban Warfare Project, and host of the Urban Warfare Project podcast. He is also a founding member of the International Working Group on Subterranean Warfare. John served 25 years in the U.S. Army, having held ranks from Private to Sergeant First Class and Second Lieutenant to Major. He was an active duty Army officer during two combat tours in Iraq.
His research focuses on military operations in dense urban areas, megacities, and urban and subterranean warfare. Spencer holds a Master of Policy Management from Georgetown University, and his writings have appeared in the Time magazine, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and many other publications. He is considered one of the world’s leading experts on urban warfare and has served as an advisor to everyone from top four-star generals to world leaders. He is the coauthor of Understanding Urban Warfare.
EPISODE 366
Urban Warfare 2.0
A Conversation with John Spencer
MAY 7, 2024
Sam Harris speaks with John Spencer about the reality of urban warfare and Israel's conduct in the war in Gaza. They discuss the nature of the Hamas attacks on October 7th, what was most surprising about the Hamas videos, the difficulty in distinguishing Hamas from the rest of the population, combatants as a reflection of a society's values, how many people have been killed in Gaza, the proportion of combatants and noncombatants, the double standards to which the IDF is held, the worst criticism that can be made of Israel and the IDF, intentions vs results, what is unique about the war in Gaza, Hamas's use of human shields, what it would mean to defeat Hamas, what the IDF has accomplished so far, the destruction of the Gaza tunnel system, the details of underground warfare, the rescue of hostages, how noncombatants become combatants, how difficult it is to interpret videos of combat, what victory would look like, the likely aftermath of the war, war with Hezbollah, Iran's attack on Israel, what to do about Iran, and other topics.
John Spencer is an award-winning scholar, professor, author, and combat veteran. He currently serves as the Chair of Urban Warfare Studies at the Modern War Institute at West Point, Co-Director of the Urban Warfare Project, and host of the Urban Warfare Project podcast. He is also a founding member of the International Working Group on Subterranean Warfare. John served 25 years in the U.S. Army, having held ranks from Private to Sergeant First Class and Second Lieutenant to Major. He was an active duty Army officer during two combat tours in Iraq.
His research focuses on military operations in dense urban areas, megacities, and urban and subterranean warfare. Spencer holds a Master of Policy Management from Georgetown University, and his writings have appeared in the Time magazine, The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, The Washington Post, and many other publications. He is considered one of the world’s leading experts on urban warfare and has served as an advisor to everyone from top four-star generals to world leaders. He is the coauthor of Understanding Urban Warfare.
Caddy Day
Caddies Welcome 1-1:15
Caddies Welcome 1-1:15
Re: Israel and Zionism
Agree with the sentiment with ISIS......the US does NOT have the high moral ground to lecture Israel.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 3:04 am Plenty of questions are asked, before every action.
The IDF is taking unprecedented precautions to prevent civilian casualties.
https://www.idf.il/en/mini-sites/the-ha ... s-in-gaza/
Israel is going to continue regardless. Withholding small diameter bombs & other precision guided munitions will only increase civilian casualties.
This is how we took down ISIS in Syria & Iraq. Where was the hand wringing then ?
Let the IDF finish this ASAP, eliminate Hamas & put Fatah in charge. That will result in the least long term bloodshed.
Evacuate the target areas or stay & die for Hamas.
Fatah can't be put in charge without help from a coalition. Netanyahu won't allow that. If you believe that you are right about Netanyahu's line of thinking in terms of "eliminating" Hamas?
His troops will occupy Gaza when the large operations are done.
Re: Israel and Zionism
The Biden admin has held up the shipping of 2000 lb bombs and 500 lb bombs to Israel. The US military sees no need for weapons of this size in a high density population conflict. Is an invitation for collateral damage. The US military has been saying this since the first month of the war! The American press has been reporting this since October! Israel did use weapons of this size over the past 8 months in Gaza. The US military claims they did not use weapons of this size, by in large, in lower density situations in the region, they are unnecessary.
Re: Israel and Zionism
Do you have a source for this theory ? Are you certain that these munitions are used as just "dumb" bombs, that they are not configured as precision guided munitions with the installation of JDAM kits & as "bunker busters" with delayed fusing to collapse tunnels & limit the above ground blast damage area ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 12:52 pm The Biden admin has held up the shipping of 2000 lb bombs and 500 lb bombs to Israel. The US military sees no need for weapons of this size in a high density population conflict. Is an invitation for collateral damage. The US military has been saying this since the first month of the war! The American press has been reporting this since October! Israel did use weapons of this size over the past 8 months in Gaza. The US military claims they did not use weapons of this size, by in large, in lower density situations in the region, they are unnecessary.
Re: Israel and Zionism
No not for some theory. Yes for the truth. Go back to this thread, the very beginning and look for my discussions of the US military position on 2000 lb bombs. You will find sources.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:40 pmDo you have a source for this theory ? Are you certain that these munitions are used as just "dumb" bombs, that they are not configured as precision guided munitions with the installation of JDAM kits & as "bunker busters" with delayed fusing to collapse tunnels & limit the above ground blast damage area ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 12:52 pm The Biden admin has held up the shipping of 2000 lb bombs and 500 lb bombs to Israel. The US military sees no need for weapons of this size in a high density population conflict. Is an invitation for collateral damage. The US military has been saying this since the first month of the war! The American press has been reporting this since October! Israel did use weapons of this size over the past 8 months in Gaza. The US military claims they did not use weapons of this size, by in large, in lower density situations in the region, they are unnecessary.
Re: Israel and Zionism
...or you could simply link the source that you are basing your post upon. This is a 155 page thread. Got a page number ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:53 pmNo not for some theory. Yes for the truth. Go back to this thread, the very beginning and look for my discussions of the US military position on 2000 lb bombs. You will find sources.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:40 pmDo you have a source for this theory ? Are you certain that these munitions are used as just "dumb" bombs, that they are not configured as precision guided munitions with the installation of JDAM kits & as "bunker busters" with delayed fusing to collapse tunnels & limit the above ground blast damage area ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 12:52 pm The Biden admin has held up the shipping of 2000 lb bombs and 500 lb bombs to Israel. The US military sees no need for weapons of this size in a high density population conflict. Is an invitation for collateral damage. The US military has been saying this since the first month of the war! The American press has been reporting this since October! Israel did use weapons of this size over the past 8 months in Gaza. The US military claims they did not use weapons of this size, by in large, in lower density situations in the region, they are unnecessary.
Re: Israel and Zionism
... that would involve me doing the work for you, where you were not interested enough in taking up the discussion when it was originally presented.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:55 pm...or you could simply link the source that you are basing your post on.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:53 pmNo not for some theory. Yes for the truth. Go back to this thread, the very beginning and look for my discussions of the US military position on 2000 lb bombs. You will find sources.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:40 pmDo you have a source for this theory ? Are you certain that these munitions are used as just "dumb" bombs, that they are not configured as precision guided munitions with the installation of JDAM kits & as "bunker busters" with delayed fusing to collapse tunnels & limit the above ground blast damage area ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 12:52 pm The Biden admin has held up the shipping of 2000 lb bombs and 500 lb bombs to Israel. The US military sees no need for weapons of this size in a high density population conflict. Is an invitation for collateral damage. The US military has been saying this since the first month of the war! The American press has been reporting this since October! Israel did use weapons of this size over the past 8 months in Gaza. The US military claims they did not use weapons of this size, by in large, in lower density situations in the region, they are unnecessary.
Re: Israel and Zionism
It would involve you providing the specific source upon which you base your assertion on the specific use of these specific weapons.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:58 pm... that would involve me doing the work for you, where you were not interested enough in taking up the discussion when it was originally presented.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:55 pm...or you could simply link the source that you are basing your post on.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:53 pmNo not for some theory. Yes for the truth. Go back to this thread, the very beginning and look for my discussions of the US military position on 2000 lb bombs. You will find sources.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 1:40 pmDo you have a source for this theory ? Are you certain that these munitions are used as just "dumb" bombs, that they are not configured as precision guided munitions with the installation of JDAM kits & as "bunker busters" with delayed fusing to collapse tunnels & limit the above ground blast damage area ?jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 12:52 pm The Biden admin has held up the shipping of 2000 lb bombs and 500 lb bombs to Israel. The US military sees no need for weapons of this size in a high density population conflict. Is an invitation for collateral damage. The US military has been saying this since the first month of the war! The American press has been reporting this since October! Israel did use weapons of this size over the past 8 months in Gaza. The US military claims they did not use weapons of this size, by in large, in lower density situations in the region, they are unnecessary.
Like thIs = https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u ... r-82898638
U.S. Sends Israel 2,000-Pound Bunker Buster Bombs for Gaza War
After sending massive bombs, artillery shells, U.S. also urges Israel to limit civilian casualties
Re: Israel and Zionism
All that does is validate what I've been saying.
We did not hear that from Austin until the campus protests began & the doublespeak began.
We didn't hear that when we provided all these munitions after 10/7.
Biden wants to have it both ways.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u ... r-82898638
The surge of arms, including roughly 15,000 bombs and 57,000 artillery shells, began shortly after the Oct. 7 attack and has continued in recent days, the officials said. The U.S. hasn’t previously disclosed the total number of weapons it sent to Israel nor the transfer of 100 BLU-109, 2,000-pound bunker buster bombs.
The airlift of hundreds of millions of dollars in munitions, primarily on C-17 military cargo planes flying from the U.S. to Tel Aviv, shows the diplomatic challenge facing the Biden administration. The U.S. is urging its top ally in the region to consider preventing large-scale civilian casualties while supplying many of the munitions deployed.
Some security analysts say the weapons transfers could undercut the administration’s pressure on Israel to protect civilians.
“It seems inconsistent with reported exhortations from Secretary Blinken and others to use smaller-diameter bombs,” said Brian Finucane, a senior adviser at the nonprofit International Crisis Group, and a former attorney-advisor at the State Department.
Among the munitions the U.S. has transferred to Israel are more than 5,000 Mk82 unguided or “dumb” bombs, more than 5,400 Mk84 2,000 pound warhead bombs, around 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs, and approximately 3,000 JDAMs, which turn unguided bombs into guided “smart” bombs, according to an internal U.S. government list of the weapons described to The Wall Street Journal by U.S. officials.
The BLU-109 bunker buster carries a 2,000 pound warhead and is designed to penetrate a concrete shelter. The U.S. military also used the bombs in the Gulf war and the war in Afghanistan.
Military analysts say the transfer of large bombs to Israel illustrates the choices facing the Israeli military as it attempts to wipe out Hamas in Gaza, a tiny, densely populated ribbon of land that is home to more than two million Palestinians. Israel urged more than a million civilians to leave the northern part of the Gaza Strip to give its military a freer hand there, but tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians have remained in the area.
The U.S. has transferred about 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs to Israel to help dislodge Hamas from Gaza;
In Gaza, Hamas’s military wing also uses a vast network of underground tunnels, which Israel could attempt to strike with the bunker busters, analysts say. The tunnels however lie beneath Gaza’s urban landscape of apartment blocks, schools, hospitals, and other civilian buildings.
The U.S. has also sent Israel roughly 57,000 155mm artillery shells—a key munition the U.S. has also provided Ukraine since the 2022 Russian invasion—along with thousands of other artillery shells and various small arms.
Even before the war in Gaza began, 155mm artillery rounds were in such short supply that the U.S. has reached deep into its global stockpiles and turned to allies South Korea and Japan, among other countries, to provide more to Ukraine.
Re: Israel and Zionism
... NO it says JDAM kits don't make much difference in limiting collateral damage.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 2:21 pmAll that does is validate what I've been saying.
We did not hear that from Austin until the campus protests began & the doublespeak began.
We didn't hear that when we provided all these munitions after 10/7.
Biden wants to have it both ways.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u ... r-82898638
The surge of arms, including roughly 15,000 bombs and 57,000 artillery shells, began shortly after the Oct. 7 attack and has continued in recent days, the officials said. The U.S. hasn’t previously disclosed the total number of weapons it sent to Israel nor the transfer of 100 BLU-109, 2,000-pound bunker buster bombs.
The airlift of hundreds of millions of dollars in munitions, primarily on C-17 military cargo planes flying from the U.S. to Tel Aviv, shows the diplomatic challenge facing the Biden administration. The U.S. is urging its top ally in the region to consider preventing large-scale civilian casualties while supplying many of the munitions deployed.
Some security analysts say the weapons transfers could undercut the administration’s pressure on Israel to protect civilians.
“It seems inconsistent with reported exhortations from Secretary Blinken and others to use smaller-diameter bombs,” said Brian Finucane, a senior adviser at the nonprofit International Crisis Group, and a former attorney-advisor at the State Department.
Among the munitions the U.S. has transferred to Israel are more than 5,000 Mk82 unguided or “dumb” bombs, more than 5,400 Mk84 2,000 pound warhead bombs, around 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs, and approximately 3,000 JDAMs, which turn unguided bombs into guided “smart” bombs, according to an internal U.S. government list of the weapons described to The Wall Street Journal by U.S. officials.
The BLU-109 bunker buster carries a 2,000 pound warhead and is designed to penetrate a concrete shelter. The U.S. military also used the bombs in the Gulf war and the war in Afghanistan.
Military analysts say the transfer of large bombs to Israel illustrates the choices facing the Israeli military as it attempts to wipe out Hamas in Gaza, a tiny, densely populated ribbon of land that is home to more than two million Palestinians. Israel urged more than a million civilians to leave the northern part of the Gaza Strip to give its military a freer hand there, but tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians have remained in the area.
The U.S. has transferred about 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs to Israel to help dislodge Hamas from Gaza;
In Gaza, Hamas’s military wing also uses a vast network of underground tunnels, which Israel could attempt to strike with the bunker busters, analysts say. The tunnels however lie beneath Gaza’s urban landscape of apartment blocks, schools, hospitals, and other civilian buildings.
The U.S. has also sent Israel roughly 57,000 155mm artillery shells—a key munition the U.S. has also provided Ukraine since the 2022 Russian invasion—along with thousands of other artillery shells and various small arms.
Even before the war in Gaza began, 155mm artillery rounds were in such short supply that the U.S. has reached deep into its global stockpiles and turned to allies South Korea and Japan, among other countries, to provide more to Ukraine.
Sure blame it on Austin.The 2,000-pound bomb has multiple variants — some are designed to penetrate deep, underground targets while others detonate above ground and cause widespread damage. Depending on the variant, and whether the munition is dropped in an open or urban area, its blast radius can be as far as a quarter mile away or a much more confined area.
The bombs are “dumb” or unguided bombs but can be turned into more precise weapons with the addition of Joint Direct Attack Munition kits, or JDAM kits which add a tail fin and navigation.
That added kit enables troops to guide the munition to a target, rather than simply dropping it from a fighter jet onto the ground. The kits make the weapons more precise, but in a densely populated urban environment, a JDAM kit is not going to make much of a difference — a precise hit will still have the reach to kill unintended bystanders.
It's not your continual gas lighting that is the problem.Re: Israel and Zionism
The JDAM puts the bomb on the precise point targeted. The fuzing detonates the bomb underground, reducing the surface blast damage radius. Israel warns the Gazans on where the bombs will be dropped. The targets are in the portion Raffa in which they've been warned to evacuate.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 2:27 pm... NO it says JDAM kits don't make much difference in limiting collateral damage.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 2:21 pmAll that does is validate what I've been saying.
We did not hear that from Austin until the campus protests began & the doublespeak began.
We didn't hear that when we provided all these munitions after 10/7.
Biden wants to have it both ways.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u ... r-82898638
The surge of arms, including roughly 15,000 bombs and 57,000 artillery shells, began shortly after the Oct. 7 attack and has continued in recent days, the officials said. The U.S. hasn’t previously disclosed the total number of weapons it sent to Israel nor the transfer of 100 BLU-109, 2,000-pound bunker buster bombs.
The airlift of hundreds of millions of dollars in munitions, primarily on C-17 military cargo planes flying from the U.S. to Tel Aviv, shows the diplomatic challenge facing the Biden administration. The U.S. is urging its top ally in the region to consider preventing large-scale civilian casualties while supplying many of the munitions deployed.
Some security analysts say the weapons transfers could undercut the administration’s pressure on Israel to protect civilians.
“It seems inconsistent with reported exhortations from Secretary Blinken and others to use smaller-diameter bombs,” said Brian Finucane, a senior adviser at the nonprofit International Crisis Group, and a former attorney-advisor at the State Department.
Among the munitions the U.S. has transferred to Israel are more than 5,000 Mk82 unguided or “dumb” bombs, more than 5,400 Mk84 2,000 pound warhead bombs, around 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs, and approximately 3,000 JDAMs, which turn unguided bombs into guided “smart” bombs, according to an internal U.S. government list of the weapons described to The Wall Street Journal by U.S. officials.
The BLU-109 bunker buster carries a 2,000 pound warhead and is designed to penetrate a concrete shelter. The U.S. military also used the bombs in the Gulf war and the war in Afghanistan.
Military analysts say the transfer of large bombs to Israel illustrates the choices facing the Israeli military as it attempts to wipe out Hamas in Gaza, a tiny, densely populated ribbon of land that is home to more than two million Palestinians. Israel urged more than a million civilians to leave the northern part of the Gaza Strip to give its military a freer hand there, but tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians have remained in the area.
The U.S. has transferred about 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs to Israel to help dislodge Hamas from Gaza;
In Gaza, Hamas’s military wing also uses a vast network of underground tunnels, which Israel could attempt to strike with the bunker busters, analysts say. The tunnels however lie beneath Gaza’s urban landscape of apartment blocks, schools, hospitals, and other civilian buildings.
The U.S. has also sent Israel roughly 57,000 155mm artillery shells—a key munition the U.S. has also provided Ukraine since the 2022 Russian invasion—along with thousands of other artillery shells and various small arms.
Even before the war in Gaza began, 155mm artillery rounds were in such short supply that the U.S. has reached deep into its global stockpiles and turned to allies South Korea and Japan, among other countries, to provide more to Ukraine.
Sure blame it on Austin.The 2,000-pound bomb has multiple variants — some are designed to penetrate deep, underground targets while others detonate above ground and cause widespread damage. Depending on the variant, and whether the munition is dropped in an open or urban area, its blast radius can be as far as a quarter mile away or a much more confined area.
The bombs are “dumb” or unguided bombs but can be turned into more precise weapons with the addition of Joint Direct Attack Munition kits, or JDAM kits which add a tail fin and navigation.
That added kit enables troops to guide the munition to a target, rather than simply dropping it from a fighter jet onto the ground. The kits make the weapons more precise, but in a densely populated urban environment, a JDAM kit is not going to make much of a difference — a precise hit will still have the reach to kill unintended bystanders.
Austin is saying what he's been told to say, trying to rationalize why Biden is now withholding military aid to Israel after blaming the (R)'s in Congress for delaying it. Austin also told Congress that US Army soldiers constructing the pier to Gaza are not US "boots on the ground".
Re: Israel and Zionism
I understand perfectly what the JDAM can do. It still expends 2000 lbs of energy which has to go somewhere. Less (but no where near zero) goes horizontal than goes vertical in bunker buster mode. Makes a deeper hole but also kicks more into the air that can go farther (more vertical energy). The kit doesn't degrade the total energy of the munition. That which goes horizontal is still significant.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 2:38 pmThe JDAM puts the bomb on the precise point targeted. The fuzing detonates the bomb underground, reducing the surface blast damage radius. Israel warns the Gazans on where the bombs will be dropped. The targets are in the portion Raffa in which they've been warned to evacuate.jhu72 wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 2:27 pm... NO it says JDAM kits don't make much difference in limiting collateral damage.old salt wrote: ↑Thu May 09, 2024 2:21 pmAll that does is validate what I've been saying.
We did not hear that from Austin until the campus protests began & the doublespeak began.
We didn't hear that when we provided all these munitions after 10/7.
Biden wants to have it both ways.
https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/u ... r-82898638
The surge of arms, including roughly 15,000 bombs and 57,000 artillery shells, began shortly after the Oct. 7 attack and has continued in recent days, the officials said. The U.S. hasn’t previously disclosed the total number of weapons it sent to Israel nor the transfer of 100 BLU-109, 2,000-pound bunker buster bombs.
The airlift of hundreds of millions of dollars in munitions, primarily on C-17 military cargo planes flying from the U.S. to Tel Aviv, shows the diplomatic challenge facing the Biden administration. The U.S. is urging its top ally in the region to consider preventing large-scale civilian casualties while supplying many of the munitions deployed.
Some security analysts say the weapons transfers could undercut the administration’s pressure on Israel to protect civilians.
“It seems inconsistent with reported exhortations from Secretary Blinken and others to use smaller-diameter bombs,” said Brian Finucane, a senior adviser at the nonprofit International Crisis Group, and a former attorney-advisor at the State Department.
Among the munitions the U.S. has transferred to Israel are more than 5,000 Mk82 unguided or “dumb” bombs, more than 5,400 Mk84 2,000 pound warhead bombs, around 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs, and approximately 3,000 JDAMs, which turn unguided bombs into guided “smart” bombs, according to an internal U.S. government list of the weapons described to The Wall Street Journal by U.S. officials.
The BLU-109 bunker buster carries a 2,000 pound warhead and is designed to penetrate a concrete shelter. The U.S. military also used the bombs in the Gulf war and the war in Afghanistan.
Military analysts say the transfer of large bombs to Israel illustrates the choices facing the Israeli military as it attempts to wipe out Hamas in Gaza, a tiny, densely populated ribbon of land that is home to more than two million Palestinians. Israel urged more than a million civilians to leave the northern part of the Gaza Strip to give its military a freer hand there, but tens if not hundreds of thousands of civilians have remained in the area.
The U.S. has transferred about 1,000 GBU-39 small diameter bombs to Israel to help dislodge Hamas from Gaza;
In Gaza, Hamas’s military wing also uses a vast network of underground tunnels, which Israel could attempt to strike with the bunker busters, analysts say. The tunnels however lie beneath Gaza’s urban landscape of apartment blocks, schools, hospitals, and other civilian buildings.
The U.S. has also sent Israel roughly 57,000 155mm artillery shells—a key munition the U.S. has also provided Ukraine since the 2022 Russian invasion—along with thousands of other artillery shells and various small arms.
Even before the war in Gaza began, 155mm artillery rounds were in such short supply that the U.S. has reached deep into its global stockpiles and turned to allies South Korea and Japan, among other countries, to provide more to Ukraine.
Sure blame it on Austin.The 2,000-pound bomb has multiple variants — some are designed to penetrate deep, underground targets while others detonate above ground and cause widespread damage. Depending on the variant, and whether the munition is dropped in an open or urban area, its blast radius can be as far as a quarter mile away or a much more confined area.
The bombs are “dumb” or unguided bombs but can be turned into more precise weapons with the addition of Joint Direct Attack Munition kits, or JDAM kits which add a tail fin and navigation.
That added kit enables troops to guide the munition to a target, rather than simply dropping it from a fighter jet onto the ground. The kits make the weapons more precise, but in a densely populated urban environment, a JDAM kit is not going to make much of a difference — a precise hit will still have the reach to kill unintended bystanders.
Austin is saying what he's been told to say, trying to rationalize why Biden is now withholding military aid to Israel after blaming the (R)'s in Congress for delaying it.
You can get precision guided munitions in a smaller size and also with non-bunker buster shaped charge. 2000 lbs is not the only choice, bunker buster is not the only mode. Israel was not using the 2K munitions purely or even mostly as bunker busters prior. Israel made a choice!!
Biden is limiting their choice.
By the way, Austen was not the source of the information in the article I quoted. The information is attributed to "Ryan Brobst, a senior research analyst at the Foundation for the Defense of Democracies' Center on Military and Political Power."
PS: Bibi's response, "we can go it alone". No big deal. Ok by me.
Re: Israel and Zionism
...Biden is limiting more than their choice of a specific munition on a specific target.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/i ... erm=second
Israel Must Finish Hamas — Even without Biden’s Support
This is a grotesque betrayal of an ally during time of war — an ally Biden claimed has his “ironclad” support. But from the Israeli perspective, Biden’s decision cannot prevent the nation from its necessary goal of destroying Hamas.
Biden’s threat certainly will need to change Israeli battle plans, as the IDF will now have to consider tactically how to invade Rafah without U.S. support while still leaving enough in the tank to counter the threats from Hezbollah and Iran itself. A change in plans could very well lead to a more bloody conflict, with more IDF troops in harm’s way and more Palestinian casualties (as Biden would be cutting off deliveries of precision bombs if he follows through on his threats).
Whatever it takes, however, it is crucial for the survival of Israel to go it alone if necessary.
Right now, thanks to Biden’s actions, all of Israel’s enemies are emboldened. Iran, and its proxies, see that U.S. support for Israel is shaky. Hamas has no reason to negotiate to free hostages, because Biden is protecting the terrorist group from Israeli action on its remaining stronghold in Rafah. The IDF war effort in Gaza is flailing, with Hamas retaking areas previously held by Israel as Biden has pressured Israel into retreating from them, citing humanitarian concerns. It’s been months since there has been sustained military pressure on Hamas.
Were Israel forced by Biden to abandon its campaign against Hamas, it would be putting its population at risk from future attacks from Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah. It would signal utter helplessness and vulnerability. Hamas will have shown that it can pull off any attack on Israel, no matter how ghastly, and as long as it digs in under major population centers, it can survive.
If, instead, Israel were to go ahead with a major assault on Rafah now, it would help reestablish momentum in the war, and demonstrate that Israel is dedicated to routing out Hamas and is willing to do so at the risk of a loss in U.S. support. It would also send a powerful signal to Iran, for the future, that Israel is willing to take care of business even without support of the U.S.
More fundamentally, this is a crucial test of Israel’s national identity. Israel takes a lot of pride in being a sovereign nation. Israelis argue that the lesson of the Holocaust was that Jews cannot depend on others to rescue them, that they have to be prepared to fight for their survival even if they have to do so alone. Sacrificing Jewish security out of fear of reprimand from Joe Biden would seriously undermine this vision of Israel.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/m ... joe-biden/
Menachem Begin Warned Us about Joe Biden
In 1982, at a closed-door meeting of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Biden had threatened Begin with cutting off military aid for Israel’s offensive campaign in Lebanon. As Tevi Troy noted in the Wall Street Journal, the story went that Begin responded in fiery outrage:
" Don’t threaten us with cutting off aid to give up our principles. I’m not a Jew with trembling knees. I am a proud Jew with 3,700 years of civilized history. Nobody came to our aid when we were dying in the gas chambers and ovens. Nobody came to our aid when we were striving to create our country. We paid for it. We fought for it. We died for it. We will stand by our principles. We will defend them. And, when necessary, we will die for them again, with or without your aid."
Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.
But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.
Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/i ... erm=second
Israel Must Finish Hamas — Even without Biden’s Support
This is a grotesque betrayal of an ally during time of war — an ally Biden claimed has his “ironclad” support. But from the Israeli perspective, Biden’s decision cannot prevent the nation from its necessary goal of destroying Hamas.
Biden’s threat certainly will need to change Israeli battle plans, as the IDF will now have to consider tactically how to invade Rafah without U.S. support while still leaving enough in the tank to counter the threats from Hezbollah and Iran itself. A change in plans could very well lead to a more bloody conflict, with more IDF troops in harm’s way and more Palestinian casualties (as Biden would be cutting off deliveries of precision bombs if he follows through on his threats).
Whatever it takes, however, it is crucial for the survival of Israel to go it alone if necessary.
Right now, thanks to Biden’s actions, all of Israel’s enemies are emboldened. Iran, and its proxies, see that U.S. support for Israel is shaky. Hamas has no reason to negotiate to free hostages, because Biden is protecting the terrorist group from Israeli action on its remaining stronghold in Rafah. The IDF war effort in Gaza is flailing, with Hamas retaking areas previously held by Israel as Biden has pressured Israel into retreating from them, citing humanitarian concerns. It’s been months since there has been sustained military pressure on Hamas.
Were Israel forced by Biden to abandon its campaign against Hamas, it would be putting its population at risk from future attacks from Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollah. It would signal utter helplessness and vulnerability. Hamas will have shown that it can pull off any attack on Israel, no matter how ghastly, and as long as it digs in under major population centers, it can survive.
If, instead, Israel were to go ahead with a major assault on Rafah now, it would help reestablish momentum in the war, and demonstrate that Israel is dedicated to routing out Hamas and is willing to do so at the risk of a loss in U.S. support. It would also send a powerful signal to Iran, for the future, that Israel is willing to take care of business even without support of the U.S.
More fundamentally, this is a crucial test of Israel’s national identity. Israel takes a lot of pride in being a sovereign nation. Israelis argue that the lesson of the Holocaust was that Jews cannot depend on others to rescue them, that they have to be prepared to fight for their survival even if they have to do so alone. Sacrificing Jewish security out of fear of reprimand from Joe Biden would seriously undermine this vision of Israel.
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/m ... joe-biden/
Menachem Begin Warned Us about Joe Biden
In 1982, at a closed-door meeting of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Biden had threatened Begin with cutting off military aid for Israel’s offensive campaign in Lebanon. As Tevi Troy noted in the Wall Street Journal, the story went that Begin responded in fiery outrage:
" Don’t threaten us with cutting off aid to give up our principles. I’m not a Jew with trembling knees. I am a proud Jew with 3,700 years of civilized history. Nobody came to our aid when we were dying in the gas chambers and ovens. Nobody came to our aid when we were striving to create our country. We paid for it. We fought for it. We died for it. We will stand by our principles. We will defend them. And, when necessary, we will die for them again, with or without your aid."
Forty-two years later, Joe Biden has learned nothing.
But we have learned who Joe Biden truly is. That he is doing exactly what he threatened Begin with over four decades ago suggests that Biden’s actions in pledging to withhold weaponry for an Israeli offensive into Rafah, however surprising they might seem to some, are drawn from a long-standing outlook toward Israel. In other words, Biden threatening to cut off aid to the Jewish state if it takes measures against its enemies is a feature, rather than a bug, of his decades-old policy.
Menachem Begin saw clearly. We can’t say we weren’t warned.
Re: Israel and Zionism
... of course the national review and Menachem Begin (a well known 20th century Zionist terrorist).