Coaching Carousel 2024

[lacrossemwj]

So 12 schools are listed and some of these are the best schools in the country - and there are others highly thought of that are tough to get in

BUT - there is a certain kind of girl that is a high level player- and I do believe that most of these girls can get into a bunch of the top 20,30,40 rpi lax schools.

A lot of these girls that are able to afford the kind of club lax needed to be recruited at high level schools can pay for many of these schools too.

I don’t know why - but this whole “use lacrosse to get into a school” is mostly a lie we keep telling ourselves in the club lax world. I guess the awesome opportunity to play d1 lax isn’t good enough for some people.

But that’s not getting in on your own, which was your original post. That’s getting in as a recruited athlete with full-pay paying parents, which is an entirely different ballgame.

[Dr. Tact]

In my admittedly limited experience some of the PL schools mentioned made some very questionable offers (certainly not all, as there are good players at all those schools). I didn’t see what they were seeing and I know I’m not the only person to have made that observation.

What I can tell you about a few Patriot league schools (Lehigh, Lafayette, HC) is that their academic standards are as high, if not higher, than Ivies. They are def recruiting from a smaller pool than many.

Give ma a break, what are those schools acceptance rates when compared to many of the better Lacrosse Schools ie NW, ND, UVA, Michigan etc. Higher than the Ivies is ridiculous.

For recruited athletes, it isn't. I can name one girl with a 28 ACT who had 2 Ivy Offers (Cornell, Columbia) but the coach couldnt get her into Lehigh. With Ivy Academic index, coaches are held to an average across a recruiting class. With some of the high academic Patriot schools, kids have to hit a minimum with no exceptions. So a superstar with low numbers can't be offset with a kid with 4.0/1600

Good grades for general students doesn’t make you special at an Ivy - they are looking for more. And I’m definitely biased (Go Big Red!) , but ivy or Lehigh has to be easiest choice in the world.

My D was apparently attractive to the two P ivies because she would help offset the AI. The lack of athletic $$ made it impossible for her to go there, but the impression i got was, her academic performance was more important than her lax skills alone. She learned about Gladwell's big fish small pond theory and that helped her get past the anxiety of not going ivy.

[BigRedChant]

So 12 schools are listed and some of these are the best schools in the country - and there are others highly thought of that are tough to get in

BUT - there is a certain kind of girl that is a high level player- and I do believe that most of these girls can get into a bunch of the top 20,30,40 rpi lax schools.

A lot of these girls that are able to afford the kind of club lax needed to be recruited at high level schools can pay for many of these schools too.

I don’t know why - but this whole “use lacrosse to get into a school” is mostly a lie we keep telling ourselves in the club lax world. I guess the awesome opportunity to play d1 lax isn’t good enough for some people.

But that’s not getting in on your own, which was your original post. That’s getting in as a recruited athlete with full-pay paying parents, which is an entirely different ballgame.

I apologize for the confusion. While there are certainly incredibly selective schools that play high level lacrosse - the kind of girls that play high level lacrosse often have good grades, AP classes, and some kind of leadership roles in their school. And while not everyone might be able to play at a Penn st, Maryland, Rutgers, Clemson, Richmond, Loyola, etc - take lacrosse away and almost all of them are the kind of student who gets accepted into those kind of schools.

[BigRedChant]

In my admittedly limited experience some of the PL schools mentioned made some very questionable offers (certainly not all, as there are good players at all those schools). I didn’t see what they were seeing and I know I’m not the only person to have made that observation.

What I can tell you about a few Patriot league schools (Lehigh, Lafayette, HC) is that their academic standards are as high, if not higher, than Ivies. They are def recruiting from a smaller pool than many.

Give ma a break, what are those schools acceptance rates when compared to many of the better Lacrosse Schools ie NW, ND, UVA, Michigan etc. Higher than the Ivies is ridiculous.

For recruited athletes, it isn't. I can name one girl with a 28 ACT who had 2 Ivy Offers (Cornell, Columbia) but the coach couldnt get her into Lehigh. With Ivy Academic index, coaches are held to an average across a recruiting class. With some of the high academic Patriot schools, kids have to hit a minimum with no exceptions. So a superstar with low numbers can't be offset with a kid with 4.0/1600

Good grades for general students doesn’t make you special at an Ivy - they are looking for more. And I’m definitely biased (Go Big Red!) , but ivy or Lehigh has to be easiest choice in the world.

My D was apparently attractive to the two P ivies because she would help offset the AI. The lack of athletic $$ made it impossible for her to go there, but the impression i got was, her academic performance was more important than her lax skills alone. She learned about Gladwell's big fish small pond theory and that helped her get past the anxiety of not going ivy.

I was trying to make a joke as a Cornell guy. The reality is that there are great experiences everywhere! Hope your daughter kicks butt wherever she decided on

[hmmm]

So 12 schools are listed and some of these are the best schools in the country - and there are others highly thought of that are tough to get in

BUT - there is a certain kind of girl that is a high level player- and I do believe that most of these girls can get into a bunch of the top 20,30,40 rpi lax schools.

A lot of these girls that are able to afford the kind of club lax needed to be recruited at high level schools can pay for many of these schools too.

I don’t know why - but this whole “use lacrosse to get into a school” is mostly a lie we keep telling ourselves in the club lax world. I guess the awesome opportunity to play d1 lax isn’t good enough for some people.

I don’t think it’s a lie at all. My daughter could have never gotten into those schools without lacrosse but she’s thriving at one for the last 3 years. Her goal was always to do just that. Use lax to get into a school she wouldn’t have otherwise. It’s exactly what she did.

[LarryGamLax]

Williamsburg is glorious, as is the W&M campus. I agree 100% that this program, given the academic profile of the school, proximity to lax hotbeds, and the ability to give athletic $$ sets them up for success. Hope it happens.

The last time they went to the NCAA Tournament...2001

The last time they had a winning season...2011

Last time they had 2 or more consecutive years of .500 or better...2008-11(Christine Halfpenny)

William & Mary used to be a great program(under HOFer, Feffie Barnhill) and then they seemed to stop caring.

There are a number of other similar schools to W&M that I don’t understand why they aren’t terribly successful. The Patriot League schools (taking out the service academies and Loyola) come to mind in particular.

I think location of PL Schools (Northeast), and academic requirements hurts the league overall. There are only so many talented lacrosse players with great academics. Why would you pick Bucknell/Lehigh over Hopkins/Duke?

Agree with this regarding location. Why play games on a small campus in icy 30 degree rainy weather when you can go play in the warmer weather? Although Lehigh seems to have a top 5-10 goalie that no one has ever heard of. So some kids don’t mind.

Pretty sure most of them are fully funded.

YOU may have never heard of her, but I am very familiar with her. She was a HS AA, if memory serves me correctly. She was pretty highly recruited. Maybe you need to "tap in"? Just because these athletes don't play at the Elite level of D1, that doesn't mean they can't play the game. Remember there are levels in each division. How many of you knew who Molly Laliberty was before the end of last season? Jane Earley? Did you know who Dylan Rhatigan was when she was at Mercer? Unless you are a real Lacrosse wonk, you probably didn't know...but now you do.

[610Lax]

In my admittedly limited experience some of the PL schools mentioned made some very questionable offers (certainly not all, as there are good players at all those schools). I didn’t see what they were seeing and I know I’m not the only person to have made that observation.

What I can tell you about a few Patriot league schools (Lehigh, Lafayette, HC) is that their academic standards are as high, if not higher, than Ivies. They are def recruiting from a smaller pool than many.

While the overall academic admission standards of an Ivy are higher than the Patriot and Ivy's are much more competitive to gain admission to, you are correct that some Patriot league schools are more difficult to get into as a lacrosse player than the Ivy's. As you stated, the Ivy's submit their class as a whole which allows the high GPA to offset one that is lower, while each individual player needs to gain admittance into PL schools, albeit at a somewhat lower criteria than a non-athlete.

But to say Lehigh, who gets about 15,000 applicants and accepts 3,800 students per class has a higher standard than Yale, Dartmouth or Harvard, who average 56,000 applicants for roughly 1800 kids per class would be incorrect.

Either way, if you child is going to a Patriot league school or an Ivy they're presented with an excellent academic opportunity.

[laxdadpat]

It's an amazing accomplishment to be accepted into any of the Ivies. They have the lowest acceptance rates along with MIT, Duke, Stanford, etc. It's a given that any of those school will provide amazing job opportunities for their students that keep their grades up. Kudos to any young women going to an Ivy, you are a select few! I have seen several girls my daughters know over the last few years get into an Ivy and not get accepted into some of the big popular state schools, it does happen fairly frequently, but most go the Ivy route. I have no idea what the Ivies acceptance criteria is, but checking boxes is absolutely part of the equation, not groundbreaking news here.
I can confidently say that going to a good school, getting good grades and playing lacrosse will open a lot of doors for any young woman. I have seen it work for my daughter that choose wanting to play over getting into the best possible school she could. At first, I completely questioned myself about how lacrosse may be the reason she settled for a school that was only being considered because of lacrosse. Going to college and practicing every day for 4 years requires an immense amount of energy and dedication. It's hard to put in all the work and not be rewarded with playing time for any motivated person. The Gladwin theory is valid, yet contradictory to the idea of constantly competing (going to school) with the best student leads to success. The problem arises here because everyone's definition of success is different.
I can happily report that great grades, the ability to take criticism(from coaches and bosses in the future), not being a snowflake and being much happier getting to play as opposed to the celebration squad led to several big-name summer internships opportunities and a confident young lady that has set herself up for success. The bottom line is there are many paths to be happy and successful.

[NutmegCrunch]

I am pretty confident that the great majority of girls that play high level lacrosse can get into almost all the schools that play mid to high level lacrosse on their own.

Lacrosse recruiting is more about what the coach is looking for/feeling … and some of these coaches are entirely unpredictable

Disagree about these kids getting in on their own. The college admissions landscape is the wild wild west these days. Of the top 25 lacrosse schools, students are not getting into Boston College, Northwestern, UVA OOS, Florida OOS, Michigan OOS, Yale, Johns Hopkins, Penn, Princeton, Stanford, USC, or Harvard these days without a serious hook.

Parents of high schoolers should read the book, "Who Gets In and Why: A Year Inside College Admissions" by Jeffrey Selingo. It was extremely enlightening about the current college admissions landscape and how/why the highly selective schools got that way. Students with very solid test scores and grades in challenging classes (AP, IB, etc.) will still need a "hook" in admissions for those schools - and when they do get in, they often find that there isn't any financial aid on offer.

That caliber of student will often get substantial merit aid (and potentially athletic aid) at a less-selective institution that may not offer Mom and Dad a prestigious decal to slap on the back of the family car, but will still provide an excellent undergraduate education.

[laxdadpat]

I posted Gladwin, my bad.

Malcolm Gladwell has written amazing books, I highly recommend them! Great reads, I doubt he reads this forum and will not be offended.

[Brownlax]

Williamsburg is glorious, as is the W&M campus. I agree 100% that this program, given the academic profile of the school, proximity to lax hotbeds, and the ability to give athletic $$ sets them up for success. Hope it happens.

The last time they went to the NCAA Tournament...2001

The last time they had a winning season...2011

Last time they had 2 or more consecutive years of .500 or better...2008-11(Christine Halfpenny)

William & Mary used to be a great program(under HOFer, Feffie Barnhill) and then they seemed to stop caring.

There are a number of other similar schools to W&M that I don’t understand why they aren’t terribly successful. The Patriot League schools (taking out the service academies and Loyola) come to mind in particular.

I think location of PL Schools (Northeast), and academic requirements hurts the league overall. There are only so many talented lacrosse players with great academics. Why would you pick Bucknell/Lehigh over Hopkins/Duke?

Agree with this regarding location. Why play games on a small campus in icy 30 degree rainy weather when you can go play in the warmer weather? Although Lehigh seems to have a top 5-10 goalie that no one has ever heard of. So some kids don’t mind.

Pretty sure most of them are fully funded.

YOU may have never heard of her, but I am very familiar with her. She was a HS AA, if memory serves me correctly. She was pretty highly recruited. Maybe you need to "tap in"? Just because these athletes don't play at the Elite level of D1, that doesn't mean they can't play the game. Remember there are levels in each division. How many of you knew who Molly Laliberty was before the end of last season? Jane Earley? Did you know who Dylan Rhatigan was when she was at Mercer? Unless you are a real Lacrosse wonk, you probably didn't know...but now you do.

Hailey Rhatigan

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Did you know who Dylan Rhatigan was when she was at Mercer?

Hailey Rhatigan

Brother of Hailey. Played for the UMass Lowell River Hawks a few years back.

[Brownlax]

Did you know who Dylan Rhatigan was when she was at Mercer?

Hailey Rhatigan

Brother of Hailey. Played for the UMass Lowell River Hawks a few years back.

The quote was - Dylan Rhatigan from Mercer. Not her Brother. And her name is Hailey.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Did you know who Dylan Rhatigan was when she was at Mercer?

Hailey Rhatigan

Brother of Hailey. Played for the UMass Lowell River Hawks a few years back.

The quote was - Dylan Rhatigan from Mercer. Not her Brother. And her name is Hailey.

0:03 clip

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Did you know who Dylan Rhatigan was when she was at Mercer?

Hailey Rhatigan

Brother of Hailey. Played for the UMass Lowell River Hawks a few years back.

The quote was - Dylan Rhatigan from Mercer. Not her Brother. And her name is Hailey.

I know all about Hailey Rhatigan--one of my all-time favorite players. I've written extensively on her since she began making a name for herself at Northwestern. The below is just one example where I devoted some "ink" to her greatness as a player:

viewtopic.php?p=489721#p489721

[BigRedChant]

To connect this discussion with this thread about coaching … I would be willing to bet that the majority of successful coaches also demonstrate a high level of respect for the players they are recruiting. The fact is, many of these are incredible young women.

I would also bet that a decent number of these coaches that struggle might lean more towards the idea that “you are lucky to play for me” than “I am fortunate to coach you”. Many of the families that have gone through the recruiting process have horror stories - a definite sign to me of not really respecting these young women.

[LaxDadMax]

To connect this discussion with this thread about coaching … I would be willing to bet that the majority of successful coaches also demonstrate a high level of respect for the players they are recruiting. The fact is, many of these are incredible young women.

I would also bet that a decent number of these coaches that struggle might lean more towards the idea that “you are lucky to play for me” than “I am fortunate to coach you”. Many of the families that have gone through the recruiting process have horror stories - a definite sign to me of not really respecting these young women.

Not sure that is fair, though there are some both successful and unsuccessful who both value and don't value their players.

From a parent's perspective, the biggest two factors i've seen which differentiate a successful coach from an unsuccessful one are 1) the ability to have a program vision which goes beyond Xs and Os and 2) ability to delegate and build out a high-performing staff.

I've found that being a great assistant has very little to do with being a great head coach. Great coaches empower their coordinators and focus on "big picture" things.

Say what you want about KAH, but noone is better at developing a staff who owns 90% of what happens on the field than she is.

[Bystanders]

In my admittedly limited experience some of the PL schools mentioned made some very questionable offers (certainly not all, as there are good players at all those schools). I didn’t see what they were seeing and I know I’m not the only person to have made that observation.

What I can tell you about a few Patriot league schools (Lehigh, Lafayette, HC) is that their academic standards are as high, if not higher, than Ivies. They are def recruiting from a smaller pool than many.

While the overall academic admission standards of an Ivy are higher than the Patriot and Ivy's are much more competitive to gain admission to, you are correct that some Patriot league schools are more difficult to get into as a lacrosse player than the Ivy's. As you stated, the Ivy's submit their class as a whole which allows the high GPA to offset one that is lower, while each individual player needs to gain admittance into PL schools, albeit at a somewhat lower criteria than a non-athlete.

But to say Lehigh, who gets about 15,000 applicants and accepts 3,800 students per class has a higher standard than Yale, Dartmouth or Harvard, who average 56,000 applicants for roughly 1800 kids per class would be incorrect.

Either way, if you child is going to a Patriot league school or an Ivy they're presented with an excellent academic opportunity.

Not all Ivies, PL or NESCACs are the same. You can’t compare Harvard and Cornell, or Bucknell and Loyola, or Williams and Trinity.The hardest schools to get into as a laxer are MIT, Williams, Amherst, followed by some of the Ivies, mix in some high end other leagues (Stanford, Vandy), then maybe there’s a debate between low end Ivies and high end Patriot.

[Relax77]

Lehigh with a good showing today.

[Dr. Tact]

Lehigh with a good showing today.

Hasn't been much excitement with that program since Dickey left.