Progressive Ideology

[PizzaSnake]

Civil disobedience has an honorable history in the USA.

Vandalism not so honorable, violence not so honorable.

Seems to me that differentiation matters. Just as not all 10,000 on Jan 6 did more than trespass on restricted outdoor grounds, and perhaps chant stupid or hateful things, so too most of these protesters have not done worse as well.

But like many other such events, some do worse. And some much worse. And deserve appropriate repercussions, whether within an educational community, which is a matter of privilege not right, or criminally.

Certainly there would be justification to treat those from outside the college community differently than those within. They are criminally trespassing if don’t leave on request, whereas a college student really isn’t though they may be breaching code of conduct or other rules of campus. Vandalism and violence are criminal, period.

Certainly, attempts to deescalate are preferable as long as that effort is not abused by those seeking to escalate. But trying to do so is important when the ultimate power is so unbalanced. So, at least try, while being clear eyed about who the opposition to such efforts may be.

In this matter, apparently there are not insignificant numbers of agitators and participants who are not students of that campus nor any direct connection.

Clear those out.

Conjecture or is there some factual basis? If factual, what is sample size and mechanism?

History. The Pro-Palestinian "from the river to the sea" thing didn't arrive on campus ten minutes ago. Also, arrest records showing non-students.

So, arrest records? Sample size? How were individuals selected for arrest?

Without knowing these and more, there is no basis for conclusory statements.

By the by, I do not condone agitation, but, who gets to define what agitation is versus a shared perspective?

You? Me?

By your logic, were the non-violent civil rights protestors of the ‘60s guilty and subject to beatings, arrest and detention for say, the crime of impeding commerce in the areas of the protest?

Need to be careful where the lines are drawn.

Quixotic.

Joe

I see no windmills here.

Wretched. That work better?

Joe

Not sure what your point is. Please expound and I’ll let you know.

If this is just a “hit-and-run” comment rather than an invitation to discussion, so be it.

[a fan]

Individuals will decide for themselves. There is no monopoly on the Overton Window.

That logic arrives at "we are nation of laws, not men". So we're in agreement.

In your example, "The South" (to simplify the discussion) was breaking Federal law. Again, we're in agreement here.

This is how society’s and norms evolve. Usually in non-linear, abrupt shifts as stored impetus is released. Like an earthquake. This one is overdue and will be pretty high on the Richter scale…

I have no clue what you mean by "this one" is overdue. What does "this one" refer to?

[MDlaxfan76]

Civil disobedience has an honorable history in the USA.

Vandalism not so honorable, violence not so honorable.

Seems to me that differentiation matters. Just as not all 10,000 on Jan 6 did more than trespass on restricted outdoor grounds, and perhaps chant stupid or hateful things, so too most of these protesters have not done worse as well.

But like many other such events, some do worse. And some much worse. And deserve appropriate repercussions, whether within an educational community, which is a matter of privilege not right, or criminally.

Certainly there would be justification to treat those from outside the college community differently than those within. They are criminally trespassing if don’t leave on request, whereas a college student really isn’t though they may be breaching code of conduct or other rules of campus. Vandalism and violence are criminal, period.

Certainly, attempts to deescalate are preferable as long as that effort is not abused by those seeking to escalate. But trying to do so is important when the ultimate power is so unbalanced. So, at least try, while being clear eyed about who the opposition to such efforts may be.

In this matter, apparently there are not insignificant numbers of agitators and participants who are not students of that campus nor any direct connection.

Clear those out.

Conjecture or is there some factual basis? If factual, what is sample size and mechanism?

Just watching the reporting on CNN today, which has begun to be more specific on numbers of students at the particular school and who was not...and some not students anywhere. Some places almost all students, some a very mixed bag. For instance, Columbia had a whole bunch of City College students arrested, more than actual Columbia students, and they had identified some outside people from groups they'd been watching.

To my mind, just a few actual agitators from outside is "not insignificant". It's an actual issue. Doesn't take students off the hook for actual bad behaviors, but get any outsiders out...

I don't think any of us are claiming some specific percentage of the protestors generally are from the outside of the particular college (which is not general public property) and its actual community, so this just about ANYONE's actions and words from outside reflecting on that community as if the "students" (a minority of students in any case) were those making the most or worst noise or agitating for violence...

BTW, this is NOT the sort of thing like blaming Jan 6 on Antifa or the FBI...they're actually arresting folks in the moment and are identifying them. And we're getting numbers filtering out not long after.

[lagerhead]

What's old is new again. Columbia and others divested after these protests.

Where are the masks and Keffiyeh‘s hiding their faces and identities in these?

[Typical Lax Dad]

What's old is new again. Columbia and others divested after these protests.

Where are the masks and Keffiyeh‘s hiding their faces and identities in these?

Like this?

[lagerhead]

What's old is new again. Columbia and others divested after these protests.

Where are the masks and Keffiyeh‘s hiding their faces and identities in these?

Like this?

Abhorant, wanting to hide his or her identity.

Edited grammar matters

[Typical Lax Dad]

What's old is new again. Columbia and others divested after these protests.

Where are the masks and Keffiyeh‘s hiding their faces and identities in these?

Like this?

Abhorant wanting to hide his or her identity.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Was certainly a lot harder to easily identify someone from a photo and have an online (or offline) mob go after them and their family 40 years ago.

Nazis and white supremacist groups like to post flyers and put up random graffiti around here. I try my best to take it down or get the city to fix it, but I certainly don't want those groups knowing my identity.

[JoeMauer89]

Individuals will decide for themselves. There is no monopoly on the Overton Window.

That logic arrives at "we are nation of laws, not men". So we're in agreement.

In your example, "The South" (to simplify the discussion) was breaking Federal law. Again, we're in agreement here.

This is how society’s and norms evolve. Usually in non-linear, abrupt shifts as stored impetus is released. Like an earthquake. This one is overdue and will be pretty high on the Richter scale…

I have no clue what you mean by "this one" is overdue. What does "this one" refer to?

a fan,

Alarmist, broken record. Don't waste time.

Joe

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.wivb.com/news/local-news/bu ... alo-state/

I wonder if their job offers will be pulled?

[cradleandshoot]

Was certainly a lot harder to easily identify someone from a photo and have an online (or offline) mob go after them and their family 40 years ago.

Nazis and white supremacist groups like to post flyers and put up random graffiti around here. I try my best to take it down or get the city to fix it, but I certainly don't want those groups knowing my identity.

I'm thinking back to 2015 when my wife and I visited Italy. We ended our visit in Milan. My favorite moment was a very laid back tour of La Scala Opera House. Interesting thing about Milan. I noticed this by what I saw with my own eyes. It is was not uncommon to see some buildings in Milan still adorned with those Nazi eagle statues. It was not uncommon to see graffiti that disparaged America. When I asked our tour guide about the animosity and how Nazi era statues still exist today she replied in her polite British accent. Milan was the breeding ground for Benito Mussolini. There are die hard Mussolini advocates still today.