Preview of South Quarterfinal - Stone/Tampa

[RedFromMI]

#1 seed Limestone Saints (18-0) hosting #4 seed Tampa Spartans (15-5)

Tampa was dominating in their win over #5 seed Wingate to get here.

The Saints had their worst season since the NCAA made DII lacrosse split into regions and the South was guaranteed entry into the tournament. And the Saints were there every year - until the wheels came off last year, and the 11-8 record that ensued. But the second game of the season turned out nothing like expected - 18-7 over then #4 Lenoir-Rhyne which started a streak of four wins over ranked opponents (Saint Leo, Mercyhurst, and Queens).
#13 Rockhurst came into Gaffney on a Monday afternoon and left hurting with a 16-3 loss. Then Seton Hill (#9 at the time) who like Queens was able to almost take the victory - falling short by one after trailing by four late. The Saints were beginning to roll - taking out #18 Catawba 24-7, then meeting up with Belmont Abbey and coming from 3 behind to outscore the Crusaders 9-1 to finish their first meeting with a 15-10 victory. The Saints edged Mount Olive by a pair, and Belmont Abbey again in the Conference Carolinas tournament by four, before finishing the season with a victory 18-11 over the then once beaten and #4 Indianapolis team to finish the regular season undefeated - only the second time in history the Saints made it through the regular season unblemished.

Computer ratings:

Limestone: Fanlax - #1/#3 SOS, masseyratings.com (not including Wednesday's first round games) - #1/#6 SOS, KRACH - #1, and if played like regular season, a 98.4% chance of winning (since this is the postseason, toss that one out...)

Tampa: Fanlax - #12/#5 SOS, masseyratings.com - #11/#5 SOS, KRACH - #15.

For the Spartans - check out the preview of the first round Tampa/Wingate game for the team numbers. For the Saints, offense is ranked #1 in the nation at 17.94 GPG. D is #4 at 8.11 GPG. (Scoring margin exceeds all other DII teams by over 2 GPG (Le Moyne #2 in this category). Man-up O is #20 (34.3% success), and man-down D is #18 at 73.6% successful. Nine players scored 10+ this season, led by co-offensive player of the year Larson Sundown (62, 35) with Clark Walter (40,10) and Tyler Papa (45, 20) major contributors. Danny Forren in goal gives up 8.10 GAA with a 58.2% save percentage. FO duty is shared by Christopher Parrot (259 attempts, 71.8% win rate) and Dakota Kirsch-Downs (191 attempts, 73.3 % win rate).

Two deans of college lacrosse coaching lead these teams, and they have met (with this playoff matchup) now yearly for some years. Rory Whipple has coached at a number of teams, including three DII startup programs (Bryant, now DI), Florida Southern, and Tampa. He is one of a few college lacrosse coaches with over 300 career wins as a head coach. But until last year, Tampa had never beaten the Saints and so carry a 1-9 record into this game (last year's game was the lone victory at 12-10). Coaching experience is not in question - and while numbers say the Saints have this one, it will really be war out there Saturday. Tampa finally shook off the inability to beat the Saints - can they do it again? Can the Saints win faceoffs against Dickerson (not last year...). In my mind - only a slight edge to the Saints here...(home, and all those offensive weapons).

[Pitt12]

Should be a battle. I like Limestone taking this one to get revenge for last year!

[Rick24]

I think the records speak volumes here. Saints at home notch a solid (high single-digit) win.

[RedFromMI]

Great game - won in 2 OT by the Saints on a sweet goal by Clark Walter. Saints looked doomed early - after getting the opening goal at less than a minute in, Tampa put together five straight scores and dominated possession behind a 7-2 margin on faceoffs in the first quarter by Ross Dickerson (he lost the first FO by violation, and only one other to Dakota Kirsch-Downs late in the first quarter. At the end of the first it was 6-2.

In the second quarter, Stone put together a pair of goals to cut the margin to two, but Tampa answered both and after trading goals the halftime score was 9-5. Tampa dominated possession the entire half...Saints scored three in a row over the first half of the 3rd quarter and trail by one, but Tampa was able to answer one goal to make it a two goal game going into the fourth quarter. Saints get a pair including their second man-up goal to tie it at 10, and with 2:52 left Jake Mosher McGraw got his sixth goal of the day to perhaps put the game out of reach, given that Tampa won the ensuing FO on a violation. Tampa hit the post with a shot, Stone clears, and then turns the ball right back. Twenty-six second left, Hommel for the Saints knocks the ball loose, keeper Danny Forren scoops it up and gets the ball up fast - ball is knocked loose but Larson Sundown scoops it up and finds Brian Huyghue standing on the edge of the crease who has no problem tying it a 16 seconds left. Final shot by Tampa goes right into the Saint's keeper's crosse, and the game goes to OT.

In first OT, Tampa looks like they have the game winner on a diving shot by Andrew Kew, but it is waved off - ruled a dive into the crease toward the goal mouth. Dual penalties (one each way) but the Saint's penalty is only 30 seconds while Kew's is a minute, but the Saints have two misses before Tampa gets a final shot right into the keeper's stick to close out the first OT.

Second OT opens with only the second FO violation by Dickerson (who was 18 of 26 at the X), and the Saints get the game winner on a feed from Huyghue to Clark Walter right in front of the goal. Feed was somewhat off - Walter reaches out high and behind and grabs it - then swings low for the scoop shot and the final goal.

Kew was (2, 1) for his final game with the Spartans. Mosher McGraw (6, 0) to lead the scoring. Vetter held to (1, 1) and Wright (2, 0). Saints D held Tampa to just two goals after the halftime break. Huyghue was (3,1), Sundown was (1, 4). Papa was (4, 0) and Walter a hat trick including the game winner.

Next up is Indianapolis, who have to make the trip back to the Carolinas next week again.

[Pitt12]

Red,
As usual when Tampa has lost in Gaffney there has been a lot of chatter about the officiating. Especially the goal that was waived off in OT. What did it look like live? I have seen the replay and it looked like a very tough call.
I say to Tampa fans if they had taken care of business during the regular season and not lost 5 games they might of had a home playoff game. They also blew 6-2, 9-5, and 11-10 leads with 16 seconds left. What are your thoughts?

[laxfan4all]

Nice recap on games Red...That being said, let's address the elephant in the room.

Sad that the officials decided this game, and wrong call at that. Kew's waved off goal in overtime should have counted and game over.

#1 - Officials called that he dove towards the goal mouth and made contact with the goalie. He started his dive from behind GLE making it physically impossible to be towards the goal mouth. His body was heading up field away from the goal.

#2 - Officials called a push from behind during the dive. Also called diving towards the goal and making contact with the goalie. If there was a push – which was called – Then the push is what resulted in him entering the crease. If there was no push, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He would have never even landed in the crease at all.

#3 - The contact with the goalie first resulted from the push. Goalie also stepped out of the crease while Kew had already left his feet, resulting in the contact. Without the push, or goalie stepping out, contact would never have been made.

Here is the video of the play
t.co/xLFH1fRKTZ

If link doesn't work, copy and paste into a new window

On another note: The officials uncalled for, and unprofessional actions after the game where a disgrace. As walking by Tampa fans, he just couldn't help but throw a dig, and said "welcome to Gaffney" while sticking out his tongue. No place in the NCAA for an official like that

[Laxwarrior]

While camera angle can make it difficult to tell, based on goalie position I don't think Kew was below GLE.

[Laxwarrior]

here is the video link on twitter. https://twitter.com/DIILacrosse/status/ ... 8505987072

your #3 point is wrong. Goalie never stepped out of crease. In fact he is standing right by the post when Kew makes contact with him.

based on that I'm calling #fakenews on the comment about the refs.

[laxfan4all]

Don't know what your looking at. Forren clearly leaves his feet towards Kew, while 2 defenders are pushing him into the crease. Dive was also in no way towards the goal mouth. He was heading up field

[Pitt12]

here is the video link on twitter. https://twitter.com/DIILacrosse/status/ ... 8505987072

your #3 point is wrong. Goalie never stepped out of crease. In fact he is standing right by the post when Kew makes contact with him.

based on that I'm calling #fakenews on the comment about the refs.

I also don’t see the goalie outside the crease?

[Laxwarrior]

Here is a goalie coach explanation. part of the article has some slides to educate refs. based on those slide, it looks like the refs made the correct call. https://laxgoalierat.com/how-to-defend-the-dive/

[Pitt12]

Don't know what your looking at. Forren clearly leaves his feet towards Kew, while 2 defenders are pushing him into the crease. Dive was also in no way towards the goal mouth. He was heading up field

I am obviously biased but I don’t see Forren going at Kew.

[laxfan4all]

Fact of the matter remains. Whether Forren stepped out or not. Kew's Dive was heading up field from GLE, away from Goal mouth. Even according to the Goalie coach explanation, that is a goal. Officials called the Defenseman for the push in the back which resulted in Kew entering the crease. If no push, Kew never enters the crease or makes contact. You can't have both

[JBFortunato]

Nice recap on games Red...That being said, let's address the elephant in the room.

Sad that the officials decided this game, and wrong call at that. Kew's waved off goal in overtime should have counted and game over.

#1 - Officials called that he dove towards the goal mouth and made contact with the goalie. He started his dive from behind GLE making it physically impossible to be towards the goal mouth. His body was heading up field away from the goal.

#2 - Officials called a push from behind during the dive. Also called diving towards the goal and making contact with the goalie. If there was a push – which was called – Then the push is what resulted in him entering the crease. If there was no push, we wouldn't be having this conversation. He would have never even landed in the crease at all.

#3 - The contact with the goalie first resulted from the push. Goalie also stepped out of the crease while Kew had already left his feet, resulting in the contact. Without the push, or goalie stepping out, contact would never have been made.

Here is the video of the play
t.co/xLFH1fRKTZ

If link doesn't work, copy and paste into a new window

On another note: The officials uncalled for, and unprofessional actions after the game where a disgrace. As walking by Tampa fans, he just couldn't help but throw a dig, and said "welcome to Gaffney" while sticking out his tongue. No place in the NCAA for an official like that

Agreed, that official should never work another NCAA game again. The call was questionable, and the actions of the official as you describe them were a disgrace. Kids work too hard over the course of a long season, and in Kew's case, college career, to have it all decided by a bad call. I really hate when that happens, for everyone involved.

[RedFromMI]

Don't know what your looking at. Forren clearly leaves his feet towards Kew, while 2 defenders are pushing him into the crease. Dive was also in no way towards the goal mouth. He was heading up field

What I see in the video was Kew stepping toward the goal line on the dodge, and not making it all the way to GLE (maybe a foot away for his right foot), then one step away from the GLE as he is moving toward the far edge of the crease. Last step is parallel to GLE/goal line and that is the dive, with his body more or less parallel to goal line. Neither toward or away from goal mouth, and given the rule is dive must be away from goal mouth, correct call.

I also think that while the called push forced more contact with the goalie, Kew would have entered the crease on his own, hence the dive flag.

[admin]

Just putting a better link: https://twitter.com/DIILacrosse/status/ ... 72/video/1.

[Laxwarrior]

On the bright side, Tampa will have a few extra few weeks to practice their crease dives in preparation for next season!

[laxfan4all]

No need to practice. that one was just fine. Good luck to the remaining teams

[topcat430]

I think there will be a review of the rule and whether it should stay in. Too much for the refs to look at. Saw many a goal this year waved off and some that should have been that weren't. And then there is the issue of the "and 1" penalty....

[admin]

Maybe I missed something but did this laxgoalierat piece speak to a d-man pushing the diver?