The Nation's Financial Condition

[Seacoaster(1)]

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

Because that's the one thing your crew is known for: concern for the "feelings" of Democrats.

Mean Democrats make YA’s team fold and pay. Sure.

[youthathletics]

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

Because that's the one thing your crew is known for: concern for the "feelings" of Democrats.

Mean Democrats make YA’s team fold and pay. Sure.

Not mean at all, all they have to do is ask. Trump gave them damned near everything they asked for.

[a fan]

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

Because that's the one thing your crew is known for: concern for the "feelings" of Democrats.

Mean Democrats make YA’s team fold and pay. Sure.

Not mean at all, all they have to do is ask. Trump gave them damned near everything they asked for.

Right. The Republicans slipped on a banana peel, and asking Trump to spend trillions....and accidentally voted "for" all that spending".

And they did it to make friends with the Dems....the Dems you Republican voters keep telling us are commies.

Is this the Deep State at work again? Tricking your guys into voting for stuff they just don't want?

[old salt]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.
TGRs and CATS had 20% coupons.
Fidelity Magellan was the only 401(k) provider and administrator which made its manager famous when all he had was an endless supply of capital coming in and guaranteed government bonds paying 20% which doubled capital invested in 5 years.

Good times ahead, yup!

Those were crazy times. Fortunately, the loans on our first 2 homes were assumable, so we had some equity. That was before we were eligible for IRA's, TDA's & such. Still, our mortgage rate was higher than anything we could earn on investments, so our investment strategy was to pay down & then pay off our mortgage. Those were the days of retention bonuses for military pilots, so that's where the bonus money went. I continued to drive my grandfathers '65 Ford Econoline pickup & a my wife drove a used '75 Pinto station wagon. We paid off our mortgage in 3 years & have been ahead of the debt curve ever since. We bought some Fidelity Magellan. Money Market funds were pretty good then too.

Interesting what the Fed did today. The soft landing may be a further bit down the runway.
It will be interesting to see the impact on CD rates vs terms.

[youthathletics]

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

Because that's the one thing your crew is known for: concern for the "feelings" of Democrats.

Mean Democrats make YA’s team fold and pay. Sure.

Not mean at all, all they have to do is ask. Trump gave them damned near everything they asked for.

Right. The Republicans slipped on a banana peel, and asking Trump to spend trillions....and accidentally voted "for" all that spending".

And they did it to make friends with the Dems....the Dems you Republican voters keep telling us are commies.

Is this the Deep State at work again? Tricking your guys into voting for stuff they just don't want?

Birds of a feather!

[Farfromgeneva]

While the crowd that’s banging in everything Biden are making up hysteria and manufacturing worry behind reality…

If people want to beat their chest and lay down markers on the economy today and stop writing the book on Biden, I will be there to tell you what a knucklehead shortsighted goof you were for that. Things have held up surprisingly well so far and that’s good (though economics are sorta like the market, you still shouldn’t be a cheerleader as it pollutes thinking and decision making) but we are started a lot of the unwind of support to people in the last six months. Rent relief a moratoriums ended in June. Here’s a small datapoint at wouldn’t be reflected in broader economic data yet:

Student loan payments were suspended for 42 months from Covid. An absolute joke. Survey showed most people forgot the payment and filled their expense base as if it was permanently gone. Dumb by them but we’re sold a lot of stuff. The first month of repayment was Nov. 42% didn’t make payment. Of all borrowers in repayment. Nearly half.

Now, go look at consumer debt. Remember credit card interest rates were 8-13% and are now 18-24% for most.

I can continue but my point should be clear that we’ve messed with normal responsibilities so much and it’s still not entirely done being unwound and it’s clear how fragile the economy is despite the better than expected data. And a lot of things are only going to start showing in a quarter or two from here.

Latency folks. Ships don’t turn overnight. When you ignore that factor I will always be there to remind people. Keep your head down and stay flexible. Throwing your junk on the table has far more downside than upside. That is all.

We've been bracing...and preparing..... for the rough landing since we got the timing of the supply chain issues wrong. We did inventory just one day after the Covid shutdowns started in Spring of 2024. Put in our orders for everything from Botanicals to glass bottles. Best move we've ever made. Only thing was, we were off by when the supply chain issues would hit by two years. Lol. Missed the target, hit the tree.

Once that was aside, we started looking at the same stuff you are.....the ability of the consumer to purchase goods getting hit from a number of fronts, meaning the end of: rent abatement, direct cash from .gov, bailout cash to companies, et. al. i also think of all the unhealthy companies that would have ordinarily gone under during Covid, but got cash bailouts. Stands to reason that pent up failure would hit at some point.

2024 is likely to be a rough ride in my industry, and many others. IMHO. We're prepared for that, anyway. We'll see, and hope for the best.

Pandemic stimulus driven excess savings are expected to run out mid 2024. Citizens still have some extra from stimulus but it’s draining fast now. They still aren’t working with their base economics 3-4yrs later. Nobody knows what their expense base really is or how to manage it without intervention anymore.

The Rise and Fall of Pandemic Excess Savings
Hamza Abdelrahman and Luiz E. Oliveira
U.S. households built up savings at unprecedented rates following the strong fiscal response and lower consumer spending related to the pandemic. Despite recent rapid drawdowns of those funds, estimates suggest a substantial stock of excess savings remains in the aggregate economy. Since 2020, households across all income levels have held a historically large share of savings in cash or other easily accessible forms. Estimates suggest that those funds could be available to support personal spending at least into the fourth quarter of 2023.

Updated discussion as of November 8, 2023, in SF Fed Blog
Monthly data updates available at Pandemic-Era Excess Savings

Pandemic-related fiscal support resulted in a sizable increase in disposable income in the overall U.S. economy at a time when health-related economic closures and social distancing led to a significant drop in household spending. As a result, aggregate personal savings rose rapidly, far beyond its pre-pandemic trend and much higher than in previous recessions.

In this Economic Letter, we examine how household saving patterns since the onset of the pandemic recession compare with previous recessions. We show that households rapidly accumulated unprecedented levels of excess savings—defined as the difference between actual savings and the pre-recession trend—relative to previous recessions. Moreover, despite a rapid drawdown of savings in recent months, there is still a large stock of aggregate excess savings in the economy—some $500 billion. The distribution and allocation of excess savings and wealth across the income distribution suggest that households on average, including those at the lower end of the distribution, continue to have considerably more liquid funds at their disposal compared with the pre-pandemic period. We expect that these excess savings could continue to support consumer spending at least into the fourth quarter of 2023. This outlook is uncertain depending on, for example, whether households have developed a preference for higher savings, significantly shifted their spending patterns, or substituted other sources of income for the expired pandemic-era cash inflows.

Fiscal spending and excess savings following recessions

The fiscal response to the onset of the pandemic was swift and significant. Between 2020 and 2021, the federal government launched several stimulus packages that injected about $5 trillion into the U.S. economy at a time when many people had seen their household incomes dwindle (Bureau of Labor Statistics 2023; Congressional Budget Office 2020, 2021).

Figure 1 shows the sizable fiscal action in the pandemic relative to other recessions. We measure this as growth in real nondefense discretionary fiscal outlays over a period of two years, starting in the fiscal year in which each recession began according to the National Bureau of Economic Research (NBER), relative to the two years preceding the recession onset. Discretionary spending includes all financial obligations by the federal government that are authorized by congressional budgetary or spending acts, including fiscal stimulus packages that are introduced in response to economic downturns. By contrast, nondiscretionary spending refers to government benefits such as Social Security and Medicare. The growth in fiscal spending during the pandemic period, in nominal and real terms, was far beyond growth associated with other post-1970 recessions.

Figure 1
Fiscal spending growth following onset of recessions

Fiscal spending growth following onset of recessions
Source: Congressional Budget Office.
Note: Growth in inflation-adjusted nondefense discretionary government spending over the first two years following the onset of a recession as defined by the NBER, relative to the two fiscal years preceding it. For simplicity, the two recessions in the early 1980s are combined.

The pandemic-related financial support to U.S. households included direct assistance such as stimulus checks, expanded unemployment insurance benefits and coverage, and child tax credits. Indirect assistance to households included the Paycheck Protection Program and several rounds of national and local eviction moratoriums, which helped people keep their jobs and housing. Those programs injected funds into households and relieved expenses, resulting in a striking increase in disposable income in the U.S. economy. Simultaneously, health-related social distancing and business closures combined to deliver a steep decline in consumer spending through 2020 and into 2021. As a result, overall personal savings rose rapidly during the pandemic, far beyond what the economy would have accumulated without such shocks, as indicated by the pre-pandemic trend.

The accumulated difference between actual savings and the pre-pandemic trend can be interpreted as the stock of excess savings in the overall economy. Figure 2 defines the pre-pandemic trend as the forward-looking, out-of-sample projection implied by a linear regression on monthly aggregate personal savings for the 48 months leading to the onset of the pandemic recession. We estimate that accumulated excess savings, in nominal terms, totaled around $2.1 trillion through August 2021, when it peaked (green area).

Figure 2
Aggregate personal savings versus the pre-pandemic trend

Aggregate personal savings versus the pre-pandemic trend
Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis and authors’ calculations.
Note: Excess savings calculated as the accumulated difference in actual de-annualized personal savings and the trend implied by data for the 48 months leading up to the first month of the 2020 recession as defined by the NBER.

After August 2021, aggregate personal savings dipped below the pre-pandemic trend, signaling an overall drawdown of pandemic-related excess savings. The drawdown to on household savings was initially slow, averaging $34 billion per month from September to December 2021. It then accelerated, averaging about $100 billion per month throughout 2022, before moderating slightly to $85 billion per month in the first quarter of 2023. Cumulative drawdowns reached $1.6 trillion as of March 2023 (red area), implying there is approximately $500 billion of excess savings remaining in the aggregate economy. Should the recent pace of drawdowns persist—for example, at average rates from the past 3, 6, or 12 months—aggregate excess savings would likely continue to support household spending at least into the fourth quarter of 2023. This outlook can be possibly extended into 2024 and beyond if, for instance, drawdown rates moderate or household preferences for savings increase.

This dynamic in excess savings associated with the pandemic period is remarkably unlike any past recessions. Figure 3 plots the monthly accumulation of excess savings since the onset of past recessions, where each of their respective pre-recession trends are calculated in the same way as described earlier for the pandemic episode.

Figure 3
Aggregate excess savings following onset of recessions

Aggregate excess savings following onset of recessions
Source: Bureau of Economic Analysis and authors’ calculations.
Note: Excess savings calculated as the accumulated difference between actual personal savings and the trend implied by data for the 48 months leading up to the first month of each recession as defined by the NBER. For simplicity, the two recessions in the early 1980s are combined.

The rapid accumulation and subsequent drawdown of excess savings following the onset of the pandemic recession contrasts sharply with the gradual increase in excess savings observed in past recessions. For many recessions, excess savings appears to plateau after three or four years instead of quickly reverting toward their respective pre-recession trends, as seen in the post-pandemic curve. One exception is the Great Financial Crisis of 2008, which was followed by an extended period of personal savings rising above trend. Voinea and Loungani (2022) attribute this rise to households slowly making up for the wealth and asset values lost during the 2008 crisis. The stark contrast between the pandemic recession and prior recessions holds true when the data are adjusted for inflation, as well as when we look at excess savings as a share of trend savings or as percent changes from pre-recession periods.

Household savings across the income distribution

How widely excess savings are spread across households of different income levels is difficult to pin down, mainly due to whether estimation models rely primarily on pre-pandemic data or pandemic-era assumptions. Barnes et al. (2022) summarize different estimates of savings across the income distribution, which arranges households from lowest to highest incomes and divides them into percentile groups. Overall, estimates suggest the two lowest groups in the income distribution hold between 4% and 29% of the total stock of excess savings, while the highest income group holds between 32% and 67%. Estimates that depend more heavily on pre-pandemic data reflect relatively low historic saving rates for lower-income households, resulting in a smaller estimated share of the total stock of excess savings for these households. Conversely, other studies model how changes in work income, spending, and targeted fiscal support may have affected household saving patterns during the height of the pandemic. In general terms, those models move away from historically low savings at the lower end of the income distribution and, hence, estimate a higher share for low-income households.

Regarding asset allocation, households have kept more of their financial assets in liquid holdings and investments—defined as currency, checkable deposits, time deposits, short-term investments, and money market fund shares—since the start of the pandemic. This seems particularly true for people at the lower end of the income distribution, as shown in Figure 4. According to Distributional Financial Accounts (DFA) data, which are quarterly estimates of the distribution of U.S. household wealth published by the Federal Reserve Board of Governors, households in the lowest group of the income distribution kept 33% of their financial assets in liquid investments in the fourth quarter of 2022, compared with 24% in the four years leading up to the pandemic (Board of Governors 2023). For the highest income group, liquid assets as a percentage of total financial assets grew from 13% to 15% over the same period, as shown in Figure 4.

Figure 4
Household financial asset allocations by liquidity type

Household financial asset allocations by liquidity type
Source: Distributional Financial Accounts and authors’ calculations.
Note: Liquid assets include currency, checkable deposits, time deposits, short-term investments, and money market shares. Illiquid financial assets include long-term and less-accessible investments.

The underlying DFA data suggest that households in the lowest-income group generally experienced steady growth in the dollar value of their total financial holdings from 2016 to 2019, in both inflation-adjusted and nominal terms. Since then, a drop in the dollar value of long-term less-accessible illiquid assets was partially offset by low-income households owning more liquid funds. Conversely, for the highest-income group, although illiquid financial holdings depreciated somewhat in 2022, both asset types generally grew in value before and since the pandemic began.

Data on checking accounts confirm that households have generally held larger cash balances for more than two years following the onset of the pandemic. For example, data by the JPMorgan Chase Institute (Wheat and Deadman 2022) show that median cash balances remained elevated through the middle of 2022 for all income groups relative to pre-pandemic balances. Compared with mid-2019 levels, inflation-adjusted data show that households in the lowest fourth of the income distribution held 41% more in their checking accounts, while those in the highest income group held 29% more.

Overall, a range of data sources and model-based estimates suggests that households across the income distribution continue to hold more liquid funds than in the pre-pandemic period.

Conclusion

U.S. households accumulated excess savings at an unprecedented speed following the onset of the pandemic recession, relative to other post-1970 recessions. Despite recent rapid drawdowns of those savings, a large amount—around $500 billion—remains in the overall economy.

A great deal of uncertainty surrounds precisely how the savings are distributed across household income levels and in what kind of assets they are being kept. Nonetheless, data on household assets and checking account balances support the view that households across the income distribution generally have considerably more liquid funds at their disposal compared with the pre-pandemic period.

Overall, we expect the aggregate stock of excess savings will continue to support consumer spending at least into the fourth quarter of 2023. However, uncertainty also surrounds this outlook, including the possibilities that households may now have a higher appetite for savings, significantly shift their spending habits, or receive other sources of income that offset the expired pandemic-era cash inflows.

Hamza Abdelrahman
Economic Analyst, Economic Research Department, Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco

Luiz E. Oliveira
Senior Associate Economist, Economic Research Department, Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco

References

Barnes, Mitchell, Wendy Edelberg, Sara Estep, and Moriah Macklin. 2022. Bolstered Balance Sheets: Assessing Household Finances since 2019. Report (March), The Hamilton Project, Brookings.

Bureau of Labor Statistics. 2022. “Effects of the Coronavirus COVID‐19 Pandemic (CPS).” Labor Force Statistics from the Current Population Survey, November 2.

Congressional Budget Office. 2020. “The Budgetary Effects of Laws Enacted in Response to the 2020 Coronavirus Pandemic, March and April 2020.” June.

Congressional Budget Office. 2021. “The Budgetary Effects of Laws Enacted in Response to the 2020-2021 Coronavirus Pandemic, December 2020 and March 2021.” September.

Voinea, Liviu, and Prakash Loungani. 2022. “Excess Savings Are Recession-Specific and Compensatory: Evidence from the U.S.” Intereconomics 57(4), pp. 233–237.

Wheat, Chris, and Erica Deadman. 2022. “Household Pulse through June 2022: Gains for Most, but Not All.” JPMorgan Chase Institute.

[Farfromgeneva]

Today a report from the Bureau of Economic Analysis showed strong economic growth of 3.3% in the U.S. in the fourth quarter of 2023, setting growth for the year at 3.1% (by comparison, in the first three years of Trump’s term, before the pandemic, growth was 2.5%). A year ago, economists projected that the U.S. would have a recession in 2023, and forecast growth of 0.2%.

Meanwhile, unemployment remains low, wages are high, and inflation is receding. As Gabriel T. Rubin put it in the Wall Street Journal today, “The final three months of the year looked a lot like the soft landing Fed officials are seeking to achieve.”

There is a major political story behind this impressive economic one. Since 1981, lawmakers have insisted that cutting taxes, regulation, and the social safety net would create much faster and more efficient growth than was possible under the system in place between 1933 and 1981.


What Recession? Growth Ended Up Accelerating in 2023
Economy expanded 3.1% from a year earlier due to strong consumer spending and hiring
https://www.wsj.com/economy/gdp-us-econ ... ticle_pos5

hmmm, crickets from the right wing posters...

Keep up the good work!!! Things are looking up so much it's time for well deserved tax increase.

Of course there is 0.6 growth….how could there not be, inflation has caused the price to go up for most everything, while labor and the cost of manufacturing goods has not matched. I’d certainly want 2.5% growth without the inflationary costs of the past few years….anyone that would is FOS.

Good thing you're not an economist...kinda like Salty talking about the law...or telling us about how Trump has an Ivy MBA...

The growth is in real GDP, which is already inflation adjusted.

By comparison, Trump's 4 years were 1.8% real GDP growth avg annually whereas Biden's is 3.4% so far.

Now, that's not entirely fair as Trump's real GDP growth was crushed by the pandemic.

Taking a longer view is more helpful.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GDPC1

Even more interesting is the per capita real GDP over the past 10 years or longer:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/A939RX0Q048SBEA

Don't believe anyone who tells you our economy isn't robust and resilient, amazingly so IMO.

And we outperform the world on the regular.

No one needs to be an economist to fully understand the difference of how people are living now vs then and how their dollar works for them.

I’m stoked we never hit (official) recession, the fed limped is along. Maybe we should thank Russia for going to war with Ukraine?

I take it that you're positing that our sending military equipment to Ukraine and the manufacture of modern replacements is driving our economic growth. Do you know the proportion of the economic activity that is the incremental spend on this equipment?

But yes, the Russian invasion exacerbated inflation due to increased energy and food costs. Energy has come back down as markets have adjusted, including the US producing far more energy than at any prior time, including per capita. Food is still impacted, but Ukraine's success in breaking the Russian embargo is helping somewhat...but big food producing areas are still impacted.

But the big inflation impact was the disruption of Covid. Despite the big drop in economic activity in the first year of Covid, inflation spiked radically...and kept on going...it's coming down now to near normal levels, but not disinflation. Fortunately wages have been rising even faster, though that too has been an inflation source.

I see housing costs, especially for first time home buyers, family move up buyers, and renters more generally, to be the biggest inflation impact that's problematically sticky. Big jump in housing costs during covid pre increases in rates. It deserves its own discussion as there are several ways that could increase for-sale supply faster than just the market dynamics, though would need legislative support which is nearly impossible right now. We're probably going to have to just live with this for awhile but it's crazy how hard it is for young people versus the boomer era much less our parents'.

I just threw up on your last paragraph. If you think about the mythological irrational sales pitch and subsidization of home ownership (renters aren’t homeless) all over the board from 30yr fixed unlike the rest of the world offering horrible negative convexity given the mid price prepayment option value. HUR/CRA has caused a million and one problems while making commercial
Mortgage bankers rich by simply getting a HUD MAP license. Mortgage tax interest deduction is a huge wealth transfer from renters to owners. There’s many more egregious examples such that anyone who read an abstract of an abstract of our involvement in housing would think that more intervention is exactly the wrong
Place here.

[Farfromgeneva]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.

One thing I've learned is that the 1%ers running Congress will NEVER let that happen again. Not a chance.

I don't see how we get out of this....we have an entire American political party that refuses to stop spending, and refuses to raise taxes.

And the Dems are obviously not far behind.

Wait.....I thought MD and Brooklyn were just thrilled at the state of our economy, and this was just yesterday.

Debt increase under Biden is some of the lowest we've had in 60+ years percentage-wise.

Economy's doing decent, but we absolutely need to reign in our debt. Trump's not gonna do it, as he did the exact opposite.

How’s he doing with respect to permanent opex and FCF? Can’t talk about feel or debt without contextualizing it with cash flow numbers.

[Farfromgeneva]

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

Because that's the one thing your crew is known for: concern for the "feelings" of Democrats.

Mean Democrats make YA’s team fold and pay. Sure.

Not mean at all, all they have to do is ask. Trump gave them damned near everything they asked for.

Right. The Republicans slipped on a banana peel, and asking Trump to spend trillions....and accidentally voted "for" all that spending".

And they did it to make friends with the Dems....the Dems you Republican voters keep telling us are commies.

Is this the Deep State at work again? Tricking your guys into voting for stuff they just don't want?

I got your smoking banana peels

https://youtu.be/gJZJsKgtbd8?si=lprKsG8GLd1NC9lh

[MDlaxfan76]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.

One thing I've learned is that the 1%ers running Congress will NEVER let that happen again. Not a chance.

I don't see how we get out of this....we have an entire American political party that refuses to stop spending, and refuses to raise taxes.

And the Dems are obviously not far behind.

Wait.....I thought MD and Brooklyn were just thrilled at the state of our economy, and this was just yesterday.

I certainly didn't use the word "thrilled", I'm simply not in the doom and gloom "American carnage" crowd we get at Trump rallies and right wing media.

I also believe in our system of regulated capitalism, which enables and powers innovation and prosperity that is the envy of most of the world.

The US economy has been remarkably resilient through an enormous shock due to Covid. We have significantly outperformed the rest of the developed world and way ahead of the less developed world. We should be pretty darn pleased to be here rather than a heck of a lot of other places in the world.

That doesn't mean we don't face big challenges. The federal debt is worrisome.

I was opposed to the massive tax cuts for wealthiest Americans and large corporations (though I benefited) during a period of time when the economy was chugging along just fine and on an excellent trajectory without that extra goosing. Added a heck of a lot to the federal debt and continues to create an unhealthy widening gap between the top 0.1% and the 99.9%, much less the top 1% and the bottom 40%. Seems socially unstable to me.

[NattyBohChamps04]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.

One thing I've learned is that the 1%ers running Congress will NEVER let that happen again. Not a chance.

I don't see how we get out of this....we have an entire American political party that refuses to stop spending, and refuses to raise taxes.

And the Dems are obviously not far behind.

Wait.....I thought MD and Brooklyn were just thrilled at the state of our economy, and this was just yesterday.

Debt increase under Biden is some of the lowest we've had in 60+ years percentage-wise.

Economy's doing decent, but we absolutely need to reign in our debt. Trump's not gonna do it, as he did the exact opposite.

It's up the Dems.

Said that over a decade ago: there is NO WAY a R POTUS is going to cut spending. There is also NO WAY a R POTUS will raise taxes. The entire leadership and their base that's enjoying all this borrowed money should be embarrassed by their actions in my lifetime.

1953....the last time a R POTUS cut spending from one year to the next. Chew on that. It's an astonishing factoid given their nonstop rhetoric about how "Government is bad".

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

There were also the times where R's contolled the Senate, the House, and the Presidency under W and Trump and didn't have to listen to the D's...

[a fan]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.

One thing I've learned is that the 1%ers running Congress will NEVER let that happen again. Not a chance.

I don't see how we get out of this....we have an entire American political party that refuses to stop spending, and refuses to raise taxes.

And the Dems are obviously not far behind.

Wait.....I thought MD and Brooklyn were just thrilled at the state of our economy, and this was just yesterday.

Debt increase under Biden is some of the lowest we've had in 60+ years percentage-wise.

Economy's doing decent, but we absolutely need to reign in our debt. Trump's not gonna do it, as he did the exact opposite.

It's up the Dems.

Said that over a decade ago: there is NO WAY a R POTUS is going to cut spending. There is also NO WAY a R POTUS will raise taxes. The entire leadership and their base that's enjoying all this borrowed money should be embarrassed by their actions in my lifetime.

1953....the last time a R POTUS cut spending from one year to the next. Chew on that. It's an astonishing factoid given their nonstop rhetoric about how "Government is bad".

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

There were also the times where R's contolled the Senate, the House, and the Presidency under W and Trump and didn't have to listen to the D's...

That's when Trump passed not one, not two, but THREE massive spending bills....all using borrowed money....long before Covid arrived.

And I called this out as it happened. Wanna take a guess as to how the Forum's Republicans reacted?

[cradleandshoot]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.

One thing I've learned is that the 1%ers running Congress will NEVER let that happen again. Not a chance.

I don't see how we get out of this....we have an entire American political party that refuses to stop spending, and refuses to raise taxes.

And the Dems are obviously not far behind.

Wait.....I thought MD and Brooklyn were just thrilled at the state of our economy, and this was just yesterday.

Debt increase under Biden is some of the lowest we've had in 60+ years percentage-wise.

Economy's doing decent, but we absolutely need to reign in our debt. Trump's not gonna do it, as he did the exact opposite.

It's up the Dems.

Said that over a decade ago: there is NO WAY a R POTUS is going to cut spending. There is also NO WAY a R POTUS will raise taxes. The entire leadership and their base that's enjoying all this borrowed money should be embarrassed by their actions in my lifetime.

1953....the last time a R POTUS cut spending from one year to the next. Chew on that. It's an astonishing factoid given their nonstop rhetoric about how "Government is bad".

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

There were also the times where R's contolled the Senate, the House, and the Presidency under W and Trump and didn't have to listen to the D's...

That's when Trump passed not one, not two, but THREE massive spending bills....all using borrowed money....long before Covid arrived.

And I called this out as it happened. Wanna take a guess as to how the Forum's Republicans reacted?

Who where those rascals that passed all of those spending bills for trump to sign? Usually those spending bills spread the glaze all over the hog. Gotta have enough pork for everybody gathered around to share.

[youthathletics]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.

One thing I've learned is that the 1%ers running Congress will NEVER let that happen again. Not a chance.

I don't see how we get out of this....we have an entire American political party that refuses to stop spending, and refuses to raise taxes.

And the Dems are obviously not far behind.

Wait.....I thought MD and Brooklyn were just thrilled at the state of our economy, and this was just yesterday.

Debt increase under Biden is some of the lowest we've had in 60+ years percentage-wise.

Economy's doing decent, but we absolutely need to reign in our debt. Trump's not gonna do it, as he did the exact opposite.

It's up the Dems.

Said that over a decade ago: there is NO WAY a R POTUS is going to cut spending. There is also NO WAY a R POTUS will raise taxes. The entire leadership and their base that's enjoying all this borrowed money should be embarrassed by their actions in my lifetime.

1953....the last time a R POTUS cut spending from one year to the next. Chew on that. It's an astonishing factoid given their nonstop rhetoric about how "Government is bad".

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

There were also the times where R's contolled the Senate, the House, and the Presidency under W and Trump and didn't have to listen to the D's...

That's when Trump passed not one, not two, but THREE massive spending bills....all using borrowed money....long before Covid arrived.

And I called this out as it happened. Wanna take a guess as to how the Forum's Republicans reacted?

Who where those rascals that passed all of those spending bills for trump to sign? Usually those spending bills spread the glaze all over the hog. Gotta have enough pork for everybody gathered around to share.

Exactly....but it's the r's fault, remember...it has to be.

[a fan]

Fellas, keep your eye on the ball.

One party claims they think government is bad, spending is out of control, and taxes are too high. Republicans.

The other claims that government is good, and we need MORE programs that help the working class and poor, and we need to RAISE taxes. Dems.


Get it? If the Republicans (and their voters) were claiming that Government is good, and spending needs to go up? I wouldn't hassle them for, you know, raising spending every chance they get. Trumpy made the Government 66% bigger in just 4 years.

It's the Republican hypocrisy that's the problem, fellas. Not the actual spending.

So either: stop claiming government is bad, and spending is bad, or......cut spending every time a R gets in the White House or Congress.

Pick one. Don't care which. Savvy? Last time a R POTUS cut spending (for the 100th time) was 1953....what needs to happen for R voters to figure out they are being lied to about "government is bad" "spending is bad"?? We're coming up on 100 years of this lie---R voters STILL haven't caught on.

Ya guys need me to break out the puppets, or something?

[MDlaxfan76]

I can't wait to find out how US $34T in sovereign debt, $1T in consumer debt, good jobs numbers, terrible layoff numbers, interest rate movements, housing inventory being bought by hedgers, and 25% plus commercial building vacancies are going to affect US and world economy in 2024.

Got through 17%-21% prime rate when I started working in late 70's early 80's.
My first mortgage rate was an adjustable rate 17% with a 5% cap that could go up no more than 2% per annum.

One thing I've learned is that the 1%ers running Congress will NEVER let that happen again. Not a chance.

I don't see how we get out of this....we have an entire American political party that refuses to stop spending, and refuses to raise taxes.

And the Dems are obviously not far behind.

Wait.....I thought MD and Brooklyn were just thrilled at the state of our economy, and this was just yesterday.

Debt increase under Biden is some of the lowest we've had in 60+ years percentage-wise.

Economy's doing decent, but we absolutely need to reign in our debt. Trump's not gonna do it, as he did the exact opposite.

It's up the Dems.

Said that over a decade ago: there is NO WAY a R POTUS is going to cut spending. There is also NO WAY a R POTUS will raise taxes. The entire leadership and their base that's enjoying all this borrowed money should be embarrassed by their actions in my lifetime.

1953....the last time a R POTUS cut spending from one year to the next. Chew on that. It's an astonishing factoid given their nonstop rhetoric about how "Government is bad".

That’s because the r’a always cave to d’a and give them all the money they want, otherwise they cry and blame the r’s everything wrong with America therafter.

There were also the times where R's contolled the Senate, the House, and the Presidency under W and Trump and didn't have to listen to the D's...

That's when Trump passed not one, not two, but THREE massive spending bills....all using borrowed money....long before Covid arrived.

And I called this out as it happened. Wanna take a guess as to how the Forum's Republicans reacted?

Who where those rascals that passed all of those spending bills for trump to sign? Usually those spending bills spread the glaze all over the hog. Gotta have enough pork for everybody gathered around to share.

Exactly....but it's the r's fault, remember...it has to be.

I thought it was always the Dems fault when spending goes up massively?

Seriously, I objected to the combination of the tax cuts coupled with the massive spending under Trump...as a fiscal conservative R. That definitely ain't on the Dems.

[cradleandshoot]

Fellas, keep your eye on the ball.

One party claims they think government is bad, spending is out of control, and taxes are too high. Republicans.

The other claims that government is good, and we need MORE programs that help the working class and poor, and we need to RAISE taxes. Dems.


Get it? If the Republicans (and their voters) were claiming that Government is good, and spending needs to go up? I wouldn't hassle them for, you know, raising spending every chance they get. Trumpy made the Government 66% bigger in just 4 years.

It's the Republican hypocrisy that's the problem, fellas. Not the actual spending.

So either: stop claiming government is bad, and spending is bad, or......cut spending every time a R gets in the White House or Congress.

Pick one. Don't care which. Savvy? Last time a R POTUS cut spending (for the 100th time) was 1953....what needs to happen for R voters to figure out they are being lied to about "government is bad" "spending is bad"?? We're coming up on 100 years of this lie---R voters STILL haven't caught on.

Ya guys need me to break out the puppets, or something?

I prefer sock puppets with little buttons for their eyes
Our nation didn't arrive at 34 trillion dollars in debt because the lame brains in DC were being overly thrifty. Whether the American people are paying attention to any of this is anybodys guess. DC suffers from the same malady most teenagers do. They want what they want and want it right now.

[youthathletics]

Fellas, keep your eye on the ball.

One party claims they think government is bad, spending is out of control, and taxes are too high. Republicans.

The other claims that government is good, and we need MORE programs that help the working class and poor, and we need to RAISE taxes. Dems.


Get it? If the Republicans (and their voters) were claiming that Government is good, and spending needs to go up? I wouldn't hassle them for, you know, raising spending every chance they get. Trumpy made the Government 66% bigger in just 4 years.

It's the Republican hypocrisy that's the problem, fellas. Not the actual spending.

So either: stop claiming government is bad, and spending is bad, or......cut spending every time a R gets in the White House or Congress.

Pick one. Don't care which. Savvy? Last time a R POTUS cut spending (for the 100th time) was 1953....what needs to happen for R voters to figure out they are being lied to about "government is bad" "spending is bad"?? We're coming up on 100 years of this lie---R voters STILL haven't caught on.

Ya guys need me to break out the puppets, or something?

Puppets would be funny....ever seen the movie Team America? Friggen hillarious. Three Types of People [ sound down around kids and clients]

[Farfromgeneva]

Fellas, keep your eye on the ball.

One party claims they think government is bad, spending is out of control, and taxes are too high. Republicans.

The other claims that government is good, and we need MORE programs that help the working class and poor, and we need to RAISE taxes. Dems.


Get it? If the Republicans (and their voters) were claiming that Government is good, and spending needs to go up? I wouldn't hassle them for, you know, raising spending every chance they get. Trumpy made the Government 66% bigger in just 4 years.

It's the Republican hypocrisy that's the problem, fellas. Not the actual spending.

So either: stop claiming government is bad, and spending is bad, or......cut spending every time a R gets in the White House or Congress.

Pick one. Don't care which. Savvy? Last time a R POTUS cut spending (for the 100th time) was 1953....what needs to happen for R voters to figure out they are being lied to about "government is bad" "spending is bad"?? We're coming up on 100 years of this lie---R voters STILL haven't caught on.

Ya guys need me to break out the puppets, or something?

Puppets would be funny....ever seen the movie Team America? Friggen hillarious. Three Types of People [ sound down around kids and clients]

https://youtu.be/df4M5PeUkUc?si=q015TRqBQ8478fSO

[Farfromgeneva]

Don’t forget knee high park

https://www.cc.com/video/b4ylib/chappel ... uncensored

“I beat my meat like it owes me money”