NESCAC

[laxdad1434]

Bates was an interesting case in 2023. Finished the season 1-14, last in the NESCAC. Only win was a 24-2 shellacking of Maine Maritime ... a team that went 14-4, won the NACC and made the NCAA tournament.

A quick look at the Maine Maritime 2023 slate of opponents and related scores makes apparent that this speaks more to the overall weakness of their schedule than it does to any strength at the bottom of the NESCAC.

Interesting reaction.

Appropriate reaction, that is a horrible schedule/conference.

[ChopMan23]

I don't know Chlastawa, so no dog in the fight, but I wouldn't take the fact that he didn't start at Fairfield as proof that he wasn't good enough to do so. He was absolutely good enough to start, the kid was great.
There are dynamics in every program that impact who starts and how much a kid plays - he was coming into a program with established rhythms, relationships and connections between players and coaches built over years. I'm guessing that if you sent any kid from that Fairfield roster up to Bates he probably wouldn't have started either, at least not right away. Not saying guys don't transfer in to places and start, that happens obviously, but the fact that a kid didn't do that has very little to do, in my opinion, with his talent level.

This is bizarre. I’m going from defending my statement that he was the best player in their history (because he was) to now having to reiterate that I think his talent level was high.
I thought I was pretty clear that he was a stud.

….Chlastawa, the best player in Bates history
…he carried them to 7-3 in NESCAC
…he lead them in points, nearly doubling the production of their next best scorer
...Fantastic talent, and a pleasure to watch.

Fact is, in this very discussion, the aforementioned Duke players would ALL likely start IMMEDIATELY, upon arrival at Bates. So, while I understand what you’re saying about transferring and starting etc, there really is on some level a reflection on ___ (insert: talent, size, fit, skill, whatever) that comes into play.

NJIT'S starters would ALL start at Bates.

NJIT would lose to a majority of the top D3 teams.

NJIT, Bucknell, Sacred Heart, Monmouth, Hofstra, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Siena, all bottom 3rd teams will beat all NESCAC teams. Salisbury, CNU would be good games. Name me a current player in D3 that would impact a D1 team, not see time, make an impact.

Lets see.... Jude Brown, Taylor Jensen, Riley Mitchell, Michael Ayers, Jack dowd ? Not sure if he graduated yet. You also have Jack Boyden who is looking like he will be in the rotation at UVA. Ronan Jacoby, another NESCAC player, had 48pts in his year at Rutgers. Max Waldbaum who was an impact player at Jacksonville. Mason Kohn was just named captain at Cuse.... have to imagine he will be a starter. I think a plethora of lower tier D1 teams would love to have Will Byrne from Bowdoin.

[laxdad1434]

I don't know Chlastawa, so no dog in the fight, but I wouldn't take the fact that he didn't start at Fairfield as proof that he wasn't good enough to do so. He was absolutely good enough to start, the kid was great.
There are dynamics in every program that impact who starts and how much a kid plays - he was coming into a program with established rhythms, relationships and connections between players and coaches built over years. I'm guessing that if you sent any kid from that Fairfield roster up to Bates he probably wouldn't have started either, at least not right away. Not saying guys don't transfer in to places and start, that happens obviously, but the fact that a kid didn't do that has very little to do, in my opinion, with his talent level.

This is bizarre. I’m going from defending my statement that he was the best player in their history (because he was) to now having to reiterate that I think his talent level was high.
I thought I was pretty clear that he was a stud.

….Chlastawa, the best player in Bates history
…he carried them to 7-3 in NESCAC
…he lead them in points, nearly doubling the production of their next best scorer
...Fantastic talent, and a pleasure to watch.

Fact is, in this very discussion, the aforementioned Duke players would ALL likely start IMMEDIATELY, upon arrival at Bates. So, while I understand what you’re saying about transferring and starting etc, there really is on some level a reflection on ___ (insert: talent, size, fit, skill, whatever) that comes into play.

NJIT'S starters would ALL start at Bates.

NJIT would lose to a majority of the top D3 teams.

NJIT, Bucknell, Sacred Heart, Monmouth, Hofstra, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Siena, all bottom 3rd teams will beat all NESCAC teams. Salisbury, CNU would be good games. Name me a current player in D3 that would impact a D1 team, not see time, make an impact.

Lets see.... Jude Brown, Taylor Jensen, Riley Mitchell, Michael Ayers, Jack dowd ? Not sure if he graduated yet. You also have Jack Boyden who is looking like he will be in the rotation at UVA. Ronan Jacoby, another NESCAC player, had 48pts in his year at Rutgers. Max Waldbaum who was an impact player at Jacksonville. Mason Kohn was just named captain at Cuse.... have to imagine he will be a starter. I think a plethora of lower tier D1 teams would love to have Will Byrne from Bowdoin.

All fine examples, but they are the exception. There are over 200 D3 teams, 8000 players. The players you named were the best players for their respective D3 teams. Those teams did not have 20- 30 of those kids. That's is the make up of most D1 rosters. Most, if not all, were the best players on their HS team, not so in D3. Huge difference. Size, speed, talent as well.

[shorelax12]

I don't know Chlastawa, so no dog in the fight, but I wouldn't take the fact that he didn't start at Fairfield as proof that he wasn't good enough to do so. He was absolutely good enough to start, the kid was great.
There are dynamics in every program that impact who starts and how much a kid plays - he was coming into a program with established rhythms, relationships and connections between players and coaches built over years. I'm guessing that if you sent any kid from that Fairfield roster up to Bates he probably wouldn't have started either, at least not right away. Not saying guys don't transfer in to places and start, that happens obviously, but the fact that a kid didn't do that has very little to do, in my opinion, with his talent level.

This is bizarre. I’m going from defending my statement that he was the best player in their history (because he was) to now having to reiterate that I think his talent level was high.
I thought I was pretty clear that he was a stud.

….Chlastawa, the best player in Bates history
…he carried them to 7-3 in NESCAC
…he lead them in points, nearly doubling the production of their next best scorer
...Fantastic talent, and a pleasure to watch.

Fact is, in this very discussion, the aforementioned Duke players would ALL likely start IMMEDIATELY, upon arrival at Bates. So, while I understand what you’re saying about transferring and starting etc, there really is on some level a reflection on ___ (insert: talent, size, fit, skill, whatever) that comes into play.

NJIT'S starters would ALL start at Bates.

NJIT would lose to a majority of the top D3 teams.

NJIT, Bucknell, Sacred Heart, Monmouth, Hofstra, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Siena, all bottom 3rd teams will beat all NESCAC teams. Salisbury, CNU would be good games. Name me a current player in D3 that would impact a D1 team, not see time, make an impact.

Lets see.... Jude Brown, Taylor Jensen, Riley Mitchell, Michael Ayers, Jack dowd ? Not sure if he graduated yet. You also have Jack Boyden who is looking like he will be in the rotation at UVA. Ronan Jacoby, another NESCAC player, had 48pts in his year at Rutgers. Max Waldbaum who was an impact player at Jacksonville. Mason Kohn was just named captain at Cuse.... have to imagine he will be a starter. I think a plethora of lower tier D1 teams would love to have Will Byrne from Bowdoin.

All fine examples, but they are the exception. There are over 200 D3 teams, 8000 players. The players you named were the best players for their respective D3 teams. Those teams did not have 20- 30 of those kids. That's is the make up of most D1 rosters. Most, if not all, were the best players on their HS team, not so in D3. Huge difference. Size, speed, talent as well.

The list of "exceptions" keeps getting bigger. Also, you are now referring to all of D3, when the conversation was directed at the NESCAC. There is a big gap between the percentage of NESCAC players playing D1 vs. non-NESCAC players.

[laxdad1434]

I don't know Chlastawa, so no dog in the fight, but I wouldn't take the fact that he didn't start at Fairfield as proof that he wasn't good enough to do so. He was absolutely good enough to start, the kid was great.
There are dynamics in every program that impact who starts and how much a kid plays - he was coming into a program with established rhythms, relationships and connections between players and coaches built over years. I'm guessing that if you sent any kid from that Fairfield roster up to Bates he probably wouldn't have started either, at least not right away. Not saying guys don't transfer in to places and start, that happens obviously, but the fact that a kid didn't do that has very little to do, in my opinion, with his talent level.

This is bizarre. I’m going from defending my statement that he was the best player in their history (because he was) to now having to reiterate that I think his talent level was high.
I thought I was pretty clear that he was a stud.

….Chlastawa, the best player in Bates history
…he carried them to 7-3 in NESCAC
…he lead them in points, nearly doubling the production of their next best scorer
...Fantastic talent, and a pleasure to watch.

Fact is, in this very discussion, the aforementioned Duke players would ALL likely start IMMEDIATELY, upon arrival at Bates. So, while I understand what you’re saying about transferring and starting etc, there really is on some level a reflection on ___ (insert: talent, size, fit, skill, whatever) that comes into play.

NJIT'S starters would ALL start at Bates.

NJIT would lose to a majority of the top D3 teams.

NJIT, Bucknell, Sacred Heart, Monmouth, Hofstra, Fairfield, Quinnipiac, Siena, all bottom 3rd teams will beat all NESCAC teams. Salisbury, CNU would be good games. Name me a current player in D3 that would impact a D1 team, not see time, make an impact.

Lets see.... Jude Brown, Taylor Jensen, Riley Mitchell, Michael Ayers, Jack dowd ? Not sure if he graduated yet. You also have Jack Boyden who is looking like he will be in the rotation at UVA. Ronan Jacoby, another NESCAC player, had 48pts in his year at Rutgers. Max Waldbaum who was an impact player at Jacksonville. Mason Kohn was just named captain at Cuse.... have to imagine he will be a starter. I think a plethora of lower tier D1 teams would love to have Will Byrne from Bowdoin.

All fine examples, but they are the exception. There are over 200 D3 teams, 8000 players. The players you named were the best players for their respective D3 teams. Those teams did not have 20- 30 of those kids. That's is the make up of most D1 rosters. Most, if not all, were the best players on their HS team, not so in D3. Huge difference. Size, speed, talent as well.

The list of "exceptions" keeps getting bigger. Also, you are now referring to all of D3, when the conversation was directed at the NESCAC. There is a big gap between the percentage of NESCAC players playing D1 vs. non-NESCAC players.

There are 11 NESCAC schools, roughly 500 players, how many make an IMPACT for a D1 program. No doubt they will all be exceptions.

[smoova]

We see some version of this discussion every year. The top 5-6 NESCAC rosters are loaded (>80% based on the teams/players I know personally) with players who declined multiple, early offers from bottom-50 DI programs. There isn't a history of kids going from NESCACs to DI because (i) players have never before been afforded additional eligibility beyond what they could use in the NESCAC and (ii) when NESCAC players otherwise stop playing lacrosse before their eligibility expires, they (for obvious reasons) typically stay at the same school to graduate/take good jobs. The coaches at NJIT would kill kittens for a chance to commit any of the starters on the top NESCAC squads (and probably a number of the Bates starters as well). Heck, my son's club team had 3 starters commit to NESCACs before two backups committed to NJIT (and those two kids were in the early half of NJIT's commit class).

[pcowlax]

Amazing to have this same discussion annually. Out of the 8000 players in D3, very few of them could play at any D1 school, even NJIT. However, there is a huge disparity on quality in D3 (see the Bates-Maine Maritime score) and there is a reason the growing list (you could keep going with that, McCormack with 73 goals in 2 years at UVM, etc) of D3>D1 transfers who have thrived have come from a select group of schools. As others have said, those schools would all beat the bottom feeders of D1. Tufts would throttle NJIT by 15, few if any NJIT or similar school players would even see the field at a Tufts, Salisbury, CNU, Amherst, etc. The top 10 D3 teams would regularly beat the bottom third of D1, win somewhat less than half the time vs middle 3rd, lose almost all vs top third and get clobbered by top 10. That said, Duke is not NJIT. You couldn't just put O'Neil on Bates and have then win NESCAC, the D on the other teams again consist of many players who could have played D1 and they would swarm him. But O'Neil, Dyson Williams, Naso, Caputo, Brower and Leadmon? Sure. Not sure what that says about the relative strength of D3 vs D1 though.

[choochooCharlie]

We see some version of this discussion every year. The top 5-6 NESCAC rosters are loaded (>80% based on the teams/players I know personally) with players who declined multiple, early offers from bottom-50 DI programs. There isn't a history of kids going from NESCACs to DI because (i) players have never before been afforded additional eligibility beyond what they could use in the NESCAC and (ii) when NESCAC players otherwise stop playing lacrosse before their eligibility expires, they (for obvious reasons) typically stay at the same school to graduate/take good jobs. The coaches at NJIT would kill kittens for a chance to commit any of the starters on the top NESCAC squads (and probably a number of the Bates starters as well). Heck, my son's club team had 3 starters commit to NESCACs before two backups committed to NJIT (and those two kids were in the early half of NJIT's commit class).

No dog in this fight either. While I’m sure they would get the offers based on their tangibles, I’m not sure a player with the academic profile to get in to a Tufts, Amherst, Wesleyan, Williams, etc, would even apply to ____ (don’t want to hurt feelings, so insert most bottom 50 DIs). You all know a lot more than lacrosse goes into picking a school. I find it much more likely they might have applied to some very big name Ivies and not gotten an offer (Or “wanted to go to a campus with a smaller feel” )

[laxdad1434]

Amazing to have this same discussion annually. Out of the 8000 players in D3, very few of them could play at any D1 school, even NJIT. However, there is a huge disparity on quality in D3 (see the Bates-Maine Maritime score) and there is a reason the growing list (you could keep going with that, McCormack with 73 goals in 2 years at UVM, etc) of D3>D1 transfers who have thrived have come from a select group of schools. As others have said, those schools would all beat the bottom feeders of D1. Tufts would throttle NJIT by 15, few if any NJIT or similar school players would even see the field at a Tufts, Salisbury, CNU, Amherst, etc. The top 10 D3 teams would regularly beat the bottom third of D1, win somewhat less than half the time vs middle 3rd, lose almost all vs top third and get clobbered by top 10. That said, Duke is not NJIT. You couldn't just put O'Neil on Bates and have then win NESCAC, the D on the other teams again consist of many players who could have played D1 and they would swarm him. But O'Neil, Dyson Williams, Naso, Caputo, Brower and Leadmon? Sure. Not sure what that says about the relative strength of D3 vs D1 though.

Delusional take. How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports? Do you think the best D3 football, Basketball, baseball team could beat the worst D1 program? It' ain't happening. In football Cortland isn't beating Kent Sate, Akron, La Tech, ECU or UMass. The speed, size, talent gap is the same in lacrosse. The best middie in D3 is a D1 washout. He's a great player, and aside from Jude Brown the best I've seen. But, NJIT, Monmouth, Siena, Quinnipiac, etc., would crush NESCAC schools. I know all you NESCAC folk get butt hurt real easy but wake the "F" up.

[carbs-asada]

We see some version of this discussion every year. The top 5-6 NESCAC rosters are loaded (>80% based on the teams/players I know personally) with players who declined multiple, early offers from bottom-50 DI programs. There isn't a history of kids going from NESCACs to DI because (i) players have never before been afforded additional eligibility beyond what they could use in the NESCAC and (ii) when NESCAC players otherwise stop playing lacrosse before their eligibility expires, they (for obvious reasons) typically stay at the same school to graduate/take good jobs. The coaches at NJIT would kill kittens for a chance to commit any of the starters on the top NESCAC squads (and probably a number of the Bates starters as well). Heck, my son's club team had 3 starters commit to NESCACs before two backups committed to NJIT (and those two kids were in the early half of NJIT's commit class).

I mean finally somebody who knows what he's talking about. I swear to God some of you don't know anything about how college lax works

[Laxxal22]

Amazing to have this same discussion annually.

It's always darkest before the dawn. I feel like we get to this point right after the season and right before the preseason (for every league other than the NESCAC) begins.

[carbs-asada]

Amazing to have this same discussion annually. Out of the 8000 players in D3, very few of them could play at any D1 school, even NJIT. However, there is a huge disparity on quality in D3 (see the Bates-Maine Maritime score) and there is a reason the growing list (you could keep going with that, McCormack with 73 goals in 2 years at UVM, etc) of D3>D1 transfers who have thrived have come from a select group of schools. As others have said, those schools would all beat the bottom feeders of D1. Tufts would throttle NJIT by 15, few if any NJIT or similar school players would even see the field at a Tufts, Salisbury, CNU, Amherst, etc. The top 10 D3 teams would regularly beat the bottom third of D1, win somewhat less than half the time vs middle 3rd, lose almost all vs top third and get clobbered by top 10. That said, Duke is not NJIT. You couldn't just put O'Neil on Bates and have then win NESCAC, the D on the other teams again consist of many players who could have played D1 and they would swarm him. But O'Neil, Dyson Williams, Naso, Caputo, Brower and Leadmon? Sure. Not sure what that says about the relative strength of D3 vs D1 though.

Delusional take. How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports? Do you think the best D3 football, Basketball, baseball team could beat the worst D1 program? It' ain't happening. In football Cortland isn't beating Kent Sate, Akron, La Tech, ECU or UMass. The speed, size, talent gap is the same in lacrosse. The best middie in D3 is a D1 washout. He's a great player, and aside from Jude Brown the best I've seen. But, NJIT, Monmouth, Siena, Quinnipiac, etc., would crush NESCAC schools. I know all you NESCAC folk get butt hurt real easy but wake the "F" up.

Did you seriously just compare the parity of college football and basketball to lacrosse?? This has nothing to do with NESCAC fanboys but everything to do with your lack of knowledge about anything related to college lacrosse. This may be the worst take I've ever heard. Hit the books and learn something before coming with terrible takes

[Laxxal22]

Delusional take. How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports?

If you have to ask this question then you know very little about the sport and its history.

[smoova]

How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports?

The whooshing sound we all heard was @laxdad1434's credibility leaving the forum as he pressed "Submit" on that post.

[laxdad1434]

We see some version of this discussion every year. The top 5-6 NESCAC rosters are loaded (>80% based on the teams/players I know personally) with players who declined multiple, early offers from bottom-50 DI programs. There isn't a history of kids going from NESCACs to DI because (i) players have never before been afforded additional eligibility beyond what they could use in the NESCAC and (ii) when NESCAC players otherwise stop playing lacrosse before their eligibility expires, they (for obvious reasons) typically stay at the same school to graduate/take good jobs. The coaches at NJIT would kill kittens for a chance to commit any of the starters on the top NESCAC squads (and probably a number of the Bates starters as well). Heck, my son's club team had 3 starters commit to NESCACs before two backups committed to NJIT (and those two kids were in the early half of NJIT's commit class).

I mean finally somebody who knows what he's talking about. I swear to God some of you don't know anything about how college lax works

Every situation is different with kids and the schools. Not every family can afford NESCAC schools. NJIT you have to be 100% academics 1st, its smack dab in the middle of Newark, 6am practice followed by lift and usually 1-2 night classes, it's not the typical college experience. Other than the best athletic facilities around, it's not a big draw to most kids. Brainiac athletes and kids that are D1 or bust tend to end up there. That being said, they would destroy NESCAC schools.

[laxdad1434]

Delusional take. How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports?

If you have to ask this question then you know very little about the sport and its history.

Wow...enlighten me on the the difference.

[laxdad1434]

Amazing to have this same discussion annually. Out of the 8000 players in D3, very few of them could play at any D1 school, even NJIT. However, there is a huge disparity on quality in D3 (see the Bates-Maine Maritime score) and there is a reason the growing list (you could keep going with that, McCormack with 73 goals in 2 years at UVM, etc) of D3>D1 transfers who have thrived have come from a select group of schools. As others have said, those schools would all beat the bottom feeders of D1. Tufts would throttle NJIT by 15, few if any NJIT or similar school players would even see the field at a Tufts, Salisbury, CNU, Amherst, etc. The top 10 D3 teams would regularly beat the bottom third of D1, win somewhat less than half the time vs middle 3rd, lose almost all vs top third and get clobbered by top 10. That said, Duke is not NJIT. You couldn't just put O'Neil on Bates and have then win NESCAC, the D on the other teams again consist of many players who could have played D1 and they would swarm him. But O'Neil, Dyson Williams, Naso, Caputo, Brower and Leadmon? Sure. Not sure what that says about the relative strength of D3 vs D1 though.

Delusional take. How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports? Do you think the best D3 football, Basketball, baseball team could beat the worst D1 program? It' ain't happening. In football Cortland isn't beating Kent Sate, Akron, La Tech, ECU or UMass. The speed, size, talent gap is the same in lacrosse. The best middie in D3 is a D1 washout. He's a great player, and aside from Jude Brown the best I've seen. But, NJIT, Monmouth, Siena, Quinnipiac, etc., would crush NESCAC schools. I know all you NESCAC folk get butt hurt real easy but wake the "F" up.

Did you seriously just compare the parity of college football and basketball to lacrosse?? This has nothing to do with NESCAC fanboys but everything to do with your lack of knowledge about anything related to college lacrosse. This may be the worst take I've ever heard. Hit the books and learn something before coming with terrible takes

Another say nothing...what's the difference?

[WhoButJerrySandles]

We see some version of this discussion every year. The top 5-6 NESCAC rosters are loaded (>80% based on the teams/players I know personally) with players who declined multiple, early offers from bottom-50 DI programs. There isn't a history of kids going from NESCACs to DI because (i) players have never before been afforded additional eligibility beyond what they could use in the NESCAC and (ii) when NESCAC players otherwise stop playing lacrosse before their eligibility expires, they (for obvious reasons) typically stay at the same school to graduate/take good jobs. The coaches at NJIT would kill kittens for a chance to commit any of the starters on the top NESCAC squads (and probably a number of the Bates starters as well). Heck, my son's club team had 3 starters commit to NESCACs before two backups committed to NJIT (and those two kids were in the early half of NJIT's commit class).

I mean finally somebody who knows what he's talking about. I swear to God some of you don't know anything about how college lax works

Every situation is different with kids and the schools. Not every family can afford NESCAC schools. NJIT you have to be 100% academics 1st, its smack dab in the middle of Newark, 6am practice followed by lift and usually 1-2 night classes, it's not the typical college experience. Other than the best athletic facilities around, it's not a big draw to most kids. Brainiac athletes and kids that are D1 or bust tend to end up there. That being said, they would destroy NESCAC schools.

If you gave the same kids the choice between Tufts or other top NESCAC schools they would choose the NESCAC. Cant imagine these "Brainiac athletes" love practicing at 6am plus lifts just to get whalloped every game.

[Laxxal22]

Delusional take. How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports?

If you have to ask this question then you know very little about the sport and its history.

Wow...enlighten me on the the difference.

We've all tried and it's proven impossible. If this a troll job I respect the commitment.

If you want an impartial view though go luck at the 2024 recruiting classes of NJIT vs. the top 4-5 NESCAC teams. Who has more 3-star recruits? I don't believe that IL is the end-all-be-all, but they certainly don't have a New England bias.

[laxdad1434]

Delusional take. How is lacrosse any different from any other top college sports?

If you have to ask this question then you know very little about the sport and its history.

Wow...enlighten me on the the difference.

We've all tried and it's proven impossible. If this a troll job I respect the commitment.

If you want an impartial view though go luck at the 2024 recruiting classes of NJIT vs. the top 4-5 NESCAC teams. Who has more 3-star recruits? I don't believe that IL is the end-all-be-all, but they certainly don't have a New England bias.

Jude Brown had "0" stars, are you really going to quote me BS IL subjective ratings? You know you can buy them right?

Explain the differences between lacrosse and the other major college sports...I'll wait.