wgdsr wrote: ↑Sun Dec 10, 2023 12:18 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:35 pm
wgdsr wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 5:09 pm
youthathletics wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 2:32 pm
Laxdad3 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 12:59 pm
Laxbuck wrote: ↑Sat Dec 09, 2023 6:52 am
Elite clampers get paid well. College coaches would rather spend that money on players who are on the field all of the time. Proposal was supported by a significant majority of D1 coaches
I would refer back to my original post, the majority of college coaches voted to ban the faceoff in 1979 and it was a disaster. They should read their lax history.
As for being paid well, most college lax players actually get very little money. The majority of the conferences split 12 scholarships among 40-50 players. It is not a money thing.
No matter how much they tinker, you can’t regulate one team having a better player than another team. It never works. The FO is a great part of the game,
a close game that requires a FO win is not replicated in any other sport…mess with it at your peril.
Shortsighted view, IMO. I have coached for decades and officiated. The F/O is likely the most challenging event to officiate, next to the stupid ass goal mouth debacle.
But your last part speaks volumes and is the reason 'WHY' all the attention. No single game/point, should come down to earning possession based off of a poorly / inconsistent officiated dead-ball restart by two single players where there is often a clear advantage/disadvantage and no other players on the field can support that effort. You can't use the goalie as a counter-argument, because he has 6 guys in front of him, and you cant argue a lefty attackman b/c you still have 6 defenders and a goalie that collectively impact that sequence of events.
Again.....the game still needs the F/O and I'm not advocating against it, just simplify the damn thing to allow two men to to fight it out w/out too much concern for the mechanics of the setup (leaning, hands, illegal bent head, etc-etc).
Just my 2 cents....
bad take, ya. it doesn't come.down to 1 v 1. wings and disrupting disadvantaged fogo is WAY undercoached. plus... you now have the shot clock as a defender.
[YA --> It is 1v1, if the clamper can possess in a split second of the whistle before a wing even gets two steps underway]
disrupt the fogo. win gbs. beat your man in and double. pressure the worst offensive player on the field. cut off outlets. recruit better. care about winning them back and coach for it. officiating on it for college seems to be fine.
[YA --> 1st you are not allowed to contact the FOGO and stick unless they are up with the ball, so closer-in wings only come into play IF the FOGO first wins the clamp or they allow contact on stick while in the FO scrum...which is the point we are discussing, no?. 2nd. And I agree 110%, far too many coaches are clueless or are just neutral and would rather just play 6v6, recruit better is a lame excuse IMO, you know full well the handful/top list of FOGO's are not going to mid majors and less, unless they have some rare exceptions to do so....its often out the coaches control. 3rd --> I'll concede the officiating for D1...thereafter and HS, luck of the draw.]
have 2 state titles and would likely have 4-5 if not for faceoffs, so it's not like i'm biased.
[YA -->have 1 and likely 3, and then short an additional chance by 1 game and a 1 point...so I feel ya]
this smacks of politicians. the people want it and are sick of coaches sticking their nose in. instead of doing what the people want, they do what they think gets them re-elected. every coach voting for this ish is remembering the game or 2 that ended their season because their genius wasn't allowed to change the outcome... while conveniently forgetting all the games they had the upper hand. it's dumb, lazy and weak.
bring the wings in 5 yards and you solve all the whining. a clamp vs a rake is a few people raising the white flag for the whole lacrosse community. lame.
[YA --> I'd be okay with giving this a shot as well, I'd just be concerned we'd end up w/FOGO's getting blown up as they turn/pivot to exit, like a defenseless receiver, then wings are in closer in full sprint.]
Appreciate the convo. Tough loss for Navy today...but expected.
not sure what u mean that you can't have contact with the stick to disrupt. you absolutely can, anything they can see as a hold or a pin will be called, but outside of that checking from the front or under is allowed.
i don't know how to debate your positions here. you say it's 1 v 1 bc it can be so quick, you say you want it to be more guys (i think?), but you also say you'd be concerned if the wings are closer to be able to play/hit a fogo. which one is it? what are we legislating? is it supposed to be 50/50 or something? maybe like foosball we should roll the ball out from a pitching machine in the box. but then the home team would have an advantage because they'd know which way the field is tilted, so i dunno.
this whole thing is silly. the 5:1 coaches approval rate is confirmation that this is all about coaches wanting their high-level strategery to win out. as that is nowhere near the ratio of fans thinking this is necessitated. if we asked fans this offseason "hey, what rules need changing?", the answer sure as hell wouldn't be "let's do faceoffs from the 70s, but only a fraction of the options. you know, bc we haven't mixed them up in awhile."
We are discussing simplifying the faceoff, so there is far less ambiguity in the mechanics and dominance in a 1v1 situation with a clamp. When you introduced added discussion points about wings, the conversation took a turn.
Clarification: You are correct and I was not clear. The wings can contact a players stick while in the act of facing off with their stick, my point was that it is awfully tough to do so while in a scrum and NOT contacting any of the players body...which is why we seldom see it and just allow the two to duke it out. But the argument still stands....this is what they are advocating for, more of a scrum vs, a dominating FO player that can tilt a game by playing make it take it.
Its 1v1 for a scrum with more guys involved. But when its 1v1 and the FO guy is gone in a split second b/c he is far more talented, all those extra guys are insignificant. If you moved the wings in and there is quick rake out, when the FO player scoops and turns, it is far more likely that the FO player can get blown up by a wing player in full stride. I was just playing out your scenario of wings moved in closer. I personally would prefer the wings be moved in to add more stress and strategy to the 3v3 FO unit.
My heels are not dug in on this, my argument is how I can clearly see that this is all a point of contention. You and I have had this conversation before.....there is not another sport where you can play make it take it, other than volleyball, and even then, at least the ball is put into play by a serve to the to the other team.....not a spike from above the net.
