Coaching Carousel 2022-2023

[Bart]

I appreciate all the outside the box thinking here.

But are we really suggesting The Ohio State University AD hire a 30 something man with no head coaching experience, who is currently coaching at the high school level, to be the next head coach of his Big Ten women’s lacrosse program? What kind of message, among others, does that send to all the female assistants/female mid major head coaches about their ability to climb the ladder? I thought athletics was the great meritocracy?

I am sure Deemer is great (actually I am not sure, just saying that to be diplomatic) but there are dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualifier and deserving of this job.

Remember the OSU AD let go of Amy for not meeting expectations. Sounds to me like he is taking it seriously there.

If I were him, I would drive to West Point NY or High Point NC and not leave until the head coach there signs on the dotted line. But what do I know?

Just don’t think there are “dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualified and deserving of this job”

There just are not that many really good college coaches out there IMHO.

. This is laughable. Sorry There are plenty of women coaches who are both good at their jobs and have way more experience than a HS coach who has 2.5 yrs of college experience. Here’s the trick….look past the D1 ranks. There are some excellent coaches at the D2 and D3 level that would be great in this position.

I know it wasn’t you who said it but excellence on the field does not correlate to excellence guiding the field. I see nothing but marginal qualifications for this person to take the reins of a big 10 lacrosse program.

[LaxPundit07]

Bart for President.

[LaxPundit07]

I appreciate all the outside the box thinking here.

But are we really suggesting The Ohio State University AD hire a 30 something man with no head coaching experience, who is currently coaching at the high school level, to be the next head coach of his Big Ten women’s lacrosse program? What kind of message, among others, does that send to all the female assistants/female mid major head coaches about their ability to climb the ladder? I thought athletics was the great meritocracy?

I am sure Deemer is great (actually I am not sure, just saying that to be diplomatic) but there are dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualifier and deserving of this job.

Remember the OSU AD let go of Amy for not meeting expectations. Sounds to me like he is taking it seriously there.

If I were him, I would drive to West Point NY or High Point NC and not leave until the head coach there signs on the dotted line. But what do I know?

Just don’t think there are “dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualified and deserving of this job”

There just are not that many really good college coaches out there IMHO.

I am sorry you feel that way. During my tenure in coaching, I worked with a number of coaches still in the game who were terrific and deserving of this opportunity. To see it go to a male with no head coaching experience who isn’t even coaching collegiately at the moment would be disappointing. If Ohio State fired Nick Myers, would they hire a female high school coach with no head coaching experience? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. So why don’t we think of hiring Deemer Class as being ridiculous?

The more I read your comment, the more irritated I get. Do you really believe there are not many good coaches out there? I know the world’s had a tough few years, but come on.

[TNLAX]

I appreciate all the outside the box thinking here.

But are we really suggesting The Ohio State University AD hire a 30 something man with no head coaching experience, who is currently coaching at the high school level, to be the next head coach of his Big Ten women’s lacrosse program? What kind of message, among others, does that send to all the female assistants/female mid major head coaches about their ability to climb the ladder? I thought athletics was the great meritocracy?

I am sure Deemer is great (actually I am not sure, just saying that to be diplomatic) but there are dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualifier and deserving of this job.

Remember the OSU AD let go of Amy for not meeting expectations. Sounds to me like he is taking it seriously there.

If I were him, I would drive to West Point NY or High Point NC and not leave until the head coach there signs on the dotted line. But what do I know?

Just don’t think there are “dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualified and deserving of this job”

There just are not that many really good college coaches out there IMHO.

I am sorry you feel that way. During my tenure in coaching, I worked with a number of coaches still in the game who were terrific and deserving of this opportunity. To see it go to a male with no head coaching experience who isn’t even coaching collegiately at the moment would be disappointing. If Ohio State fired Nick Myers, would they hire a female high school coach with no head coaching experience? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. So why don’t we think of hiring Deemer Class as being ridiculous?

The more I read your comment, the more irritated I get. Do you really believe there are not many good coaches out there? I know the world’s had a tough few years, but come on.

Please don’t be irritated. My comment is “ really good coaches”, not good coaches, there is a difference and it is why I used the word “really”.

We seem to be in agreement that the OSU job is a really good job opportunity offering high pay and exposure. Coaching in the Big10 is different than coaching in the ASUN.

Why have so few teams in the past 20 years been contenders for a Natiional Championship? Is it the lack of talent on the field or is it lack of really good coaching? There are lots of really good schools that have women’s lacrosse programs but only a small handful have won National Championships.

For what it is worth, I don’t have the skill sets to be a really good coach or even a good coach and I respect the people who are doing a good job in the college ranks and all levels of the game.

[LaxPundit07]

[quote=LaxPundit07 post_id=467991 time=<a href="tel:1684973255">1684973255</a> user_id=1401]
[quote=LaxPundit07 post_id=467963 time=<a href="tel:1684968307">1684968307</a> user_id=1401]
[quote=TNLAX post_id=467902 time=<a href="tel:1684960301">1684960301</a> user_id=2712]
[quote=LaxPundit07 post_id=467850 time=<a href="tel:1684952639">1684952639</a> user_id=1401]
I appreciate all the outside the box thinking here.

But are we really suggesting The Ohio State University AD hire a 30 something man with no head coaching experience, who is currently coaching at the high school level, to be the next head coach of his Big Ten women’s lacrosse program? What kind of message, among others, does that send to all the female assistants/female mid major head coaches about their ability to climb the ladder? I thought athletics was the great meritocracy?

I am sure Deemer is great (actually I am not sure, just saying that to be diplomatic) but there are dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualifier and deserving of this job.

Remember the OSU AD let go of Amy for not meeting expectations. Sounds to me like he is taking it seriously there.

If I were him, I would drive to West Point NY or High Point NC and not leave until the head coach there signs on the dotted line. But what do I know?

Just don’t think there are “dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualified and deserving of this job”

There just are not that many really good college coaches out there IMHO.
[/quote]

I am sorry you feel that way. During my tenure in coaching, I worked with a number of coaches still in the game who were terrific and deserving of this opportunity. To see it go to a male with no head coaching experience who isn’t even coaching collegiately at the moment would be disappointing. If Ohio State fired Nick Myers, would they hire a female high school coach with no head coaching experience? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. So why don’t we think of hiring Deemer Class as being ridiculous?
[/quote]

The more I read your comment, the more irritated I get. Do you really believe there are not many good coaches out there? I know the world’s had a tough few years, but come on.
[/quote]

Please don’t be irritated. My comment is “ really good coaches”, not good coaches, there is a difference and it is why I used the word “really”.

We seem to be in agreement that the OSU job is a really good job opportunity offering high pay and exposure. Coaching in the Big10 is different than coaching in the ASUN.

Why have so few teams in the past 20 years been contenders for a Natiional Championship? Is it the lack of talent on the field or is it lack of really good coaching? There are lots of really good schools that have women’s lacrosse programs but only a small handful have won National Championships.

For what it is worth, I don’t have the skill sets to be a really good coach or even a good coach and I respect the people who are doing a good job in the college ranks and all levels of the game.
[/quote]

Ok that is fair. And I hear you.

I think there are some really good coaches laying in the weeds. Top assistants, head coaches at mid majors and top tier D2s and D3s. I hope there are opportunities for them.

[Bart]

Please don’t be irritated. My comment is “ really good coaches”, not good coaches, there is a difference and it is why I used the word “really”.

We seem to be in agreement that the OSU job is a really good job opportunity offering high pay and exposure. Coaching in the Big10 is different than coaching in the ASUN.

Why have so few teams in the past 20 years been contenders for a Natiional Championship? Is it the lack of talent on the field or is it lack of really good coaching? There are lots of really good schools that have women’s lacrosse programs but only a small handful have won National Championships.

For what it is worth, I don’t have the skill sets to be a really good coach or even a good coach and I respect the people who are doing a good job in the college ranks and all levels of the game.

Ok that is fair. And I hear you.

I think there are some really good coaches laying in the weeds. Top assistants, head coaches at mid majors and top tier D2s and D3s. I hope there are opportunities for them.

What defines a "really good coach"?

[TNLAX]

Please don’t be irritated. My comment is “ really good coaches”, not good coaches, there is a difference and it is why I used the word “really”.

We seem to be in agreement that the OSU job is a really good job opportunity offering high pay and exposure. Coaching in the Big10 is different than coaching in the ASUN.

Why have so few teams in the past 20 years been contenders for a Natiional Championship? Is it the lack of talent on the field or is it lack of really good coaching? There are lots of really good schools that have women’s lacrosse programs but only a small handful have won National Championships.

For what it is worth, I don’t have the skill sets to be a really good coach or even a good coach and I respect the people who are doing a good job in the college ranks and all levels of the game.

Ok that is fair. And I hear you.

I think there are some really good coaches laying in the weeds. Top assistants, head coaches at mid majors and top tier D2s and D3s. I hope there are opportunities for them.

What defines a "really good coach"?

That's the million dollar questions and why we are having the discussion.

We will all have a different definition. Winning national championships? Graduating girls you recruit? High team GPA? Offering your players an opportunity to grow and mature into fine young women who will be leaders in the community and business world? A combination of all of these things?

My daughter graduated from Vanderbilt and played for Cathy Sweezey. Cathy at one point helped lead the team to a Final Four appearance but later in her tenure she wasn't winning as much and the AD decided not to renew her contract. Cathy always had a team of young women who graduated and had high GPA's and represented the school and the program in a tremendous fashion. I think Cathy was a good coach.

There are a few individuals out there that can do all of the above and constantly have a team that wins a few games each year in the NCAA tournament. Maybe that is how I would define a really good coach.

Mind you, you a player doesn't need to play on a winning team or play in a National Championship to better themselves as a human being or as a lacrosse player.

[LaxDadMax]

I appreciate all the outside the box thinking here.

But are we really suggesting The Ohio State University AD hire a 30 something man with no head coaching experience, who is currently coaching at the high school level, to be the next head coach of his Big Ten women’s lacrosse program? What kind of message, among others, does that send to all the female assistants/female mid major head coaches about their ability to climb the ladder? I thought athletics was the great meritocracy?

I am sure Deemer is great (actually I am not sure, just saying that to be diplomatic) but there are dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualifier and deserving of this job.

Remember the OSU AD let go of Amy for not meeting expectations. Sounds to me like he is taking it seriously there.

If I were him, I would drive to West Point NY or High Point NC and not leave until the head coach there signs on the dotted line. But what do I know?

Just don’t think there are “dozens of other female coaches out there way more qualified and deserving of this job”

There just are not that many really good college coaches out there IMHO.

I am sorry you feel that way. During my tenure in coaching, I worked with a number of coaches still in the game who were terrific and deserving of this opportunity. To see it go to a male with no head coaching experience who isn’t even coaching collegiately at the moment would be disappointing. If Ohio State fired Nick Myers, would they hire a female high school coach with no head coaching experience? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. So why don’t we think of hiring Deemer Class as being ridiculous?

The more I read your comment, the more irritated I get. Do you really believe there are not many good coaches out there? I know the world’s had a tough few years, but come on.

Please don’t be irritated. My comment is “ really good coaches”, not good coaches, there is a difference and it is why I used the word “really”.

We seem to be in agreement that the OSU job is a really good job opportunity offering high pay and exposure. Coaching in the Big10 is different than coaching in the ASUN.

Why have so few teams in the past 20 years been contenders for a Natiional Championship? Is it the lack of talent on the field or is it lack of really good coaching? There are lots of really good schools that have women’s lacrosse programs but only a small handful have won National Championships.

For what it is worth, I don’t have the skill sets to be a really good coach or even a good coach and I respect the people who are doing a good job in the college ranks and all levels of the game.

I have no inside info, but I know the culture and mindset at OSU, especially for non-revenue sports. I will be shocked if their new hire isn't an existing top 20 head coach. This will likely be one of the highest paying job in women's lacrosse and OSU will use that to get the right person.

My guess is that Spallina, Kelly and Klaes are at the top of their list, though I agree none of them are likely to want to leave their own situations which pretty guarantees them lifetime employment.

I think more likely candidates are Halfpenny (which I've mentioned before), Tumulo, Adams and Drummond.

[watcherinthewoods]

Anyone for Alex Kehoe at St. Joe's?

[maddox511]

What defines a really good coach? See Janine Tucker, Cathy Reese, Carl Runk, John Wooden, Anson Dorrance, etc. Have played for one of these coaches and coached for another. Fair but firm. Personable and caring. Puts players above self. True to self and character. The same person when the crap hits the fan as when things are peachy. Able to navigate the politics of higher education without compromising their convictions. Open to criticism from all avenues, including parents, players, peers, bosses and fan. Not taking anything personal while willing to have open dialogue if needed. Most important, but encompassing all that has been said > always the student, respectful of their "superiors" but empowering to their "subordinates" (including assistant coaches and players), genuine, and paramount to it all = HUMBLE!!

If you want to find the best coach, forget about their gender, race or age or even their pedigree. Find out if they play mind games with their players. At halftime in losing efforts, do they accuse their players of not trying hard enough or "making me look bad" or do they take "extreme accountability"? (See Jocko Wilink)
Do they coach the kids in front of them or are they so concerned with making a name for themselves and climbing the ladder that they view their current situation as a "stepping stone" or resume builder?

I'll leave it at that for now, but there is definitely more to unravel.

[wlaxphan20]

What defines a really good coach? See Janine Tucker, Cathy Reese, Carl Runk, John Wooden, Anson Dorrance, etc. Have played for one of these coaches and coached for another. Fair but firm. Personable and caring. Puts players above self. True to self and character. The same person when the crap hits the fan as when things are peachy. Able to navigate the politics of higher education without compromising their convictions. Open to criticism from all avenues, including parents, players, peers, bosses and fan. Not taking anything personal while willing to have open dialogue if needed. Most important, but encompassing all that has been said > always the student, respectful of their "superiors" but empowering to their "subordinates" (including assistant coaches and players), genuine, and paramount to it all = HUMBLE!!

If you want to find the best coach, forget about their gender, race or age or even their pedigree. Find out if they play mind games with their players. At halftime in losing efforts, do they accuse their players of not trying hard enough or "making me look bad" or do they take "extreme accountability"? (See Jocko Wilink)
Do they coach the kids in front of them or are they so concerned with making a name for themselves and climbing the ladder that they view their current situation as a "stepping stone" or resume builder?

I'll leave it at that for now, but there is definitely more to unravel.

Have read Dorrance’s books about the culture he created at UNC & the competitive cauldron. Really enjoyed it!

[lacrossenut99]

Like the Klaes and Kelly options. Make them say no.

If they go outside the box, how much to get Taylor Cummings to move to Columbus?

[Can Opener]

What defines a really good coach? See Janine Tucker, Cathy Reese, Carl Runk, John Wooden, Anson Dorrance, etc. Have played for one of these coaches and coached for another. Fair but firm. Personable and caring. Puts players above self. True to self and character. The same person when the crap hits the fan as when things are peachy. Able to navigate the politics of higher education without compromising their convictions. Open to criticism from all avenues, including parents, players, peers, bosses and fan. Not taking anything personal while willing to have open dialogue if needed. Most important, but encompassing all that has been said > always the student, respectful of their "superiors" but empowering to their "subordinates" (including assistant coaches and players), genuine, and paramount to it all = HUMBLE!!

If you want to find the best coach, forget about their gender, race or age or even their pedigree. Find out if they play mind games with their players. At halftime in losing efforts, do they accuse their players of not trying hard enough or "making me look bad" or do they take "extreme accountability"? (See Jocko Wilink)
Do they coach the kids in front of them or are they so concerned with making a name for themselves and climbing the ladder that they view their current situation as a "stepping stone" or resume builder?

I'll leave it at that for now, but there is definitely more to unravel.

Yes to all of this. I would simplify the top 5 criteria as:
1. Run a clean program
2. Recruit
3. Recruit
4. Recruit
5. Communicate and build relationships in a way that appeals to this generation of student athletes

[wlaxphan20]

Like the Klaes and Kelly options. Make them say no.

If they go outside the box, how much to get Taylor Cummings to move to Columbus?

I don’t think she’s looking to coach in college, but I don’t know her personally. She’s recently married, owns a home in MD, and seems happy with the HC position at McDonogh, her own brand, color commentating, doing private lessons, etc. But I guess you should never say never?

[@inthe8m]

Where is Deemer Class hiding out? He left his job as assistant at USC a year or so ago . Maybe this job is intriguing to him?

No offense to Deemer here, but the fact that the first person you can think of is a former assistant coach that has been out of the game for 2 years is borderline insulting to the womens coaches in the game. Ohio State is a top 5 paying job in women’s lacrosse. They should have their pick of rising assistants or established head coaches. This reminds me of the laxallstars tweet from a few year ago that listed a random male volunteer for BC as a candidate for the Clemson job.

I could see OSU looking at the following (figuring the Liza Kelly’s and Shelley Klaes of the world say no) :

Head Coach
Gina Oliver from Cinci (alum/HOF)
Meredith Black from Marquette
Munday from USC (actual head coach)
Joe Spallina (doubt he will leave the Island)
Michelle Tumolo (does she capitalize on the successful season)
Allison Kwolek (not enough fanfare for her job at Clemson)

Assistants
Dana Dobbie
Lauri Kenis (home run hire in my opinion)
Phil Barnes

I’m sure there is a dark horse name out there that I am forgetting but this is the type of name they will get.

I don’t think Kwolek would leave Clemson after one season of coaching, but you never know. I also know she is battling cancer and has a daughter, so between doctors and school I’m sure it would be hard to move again after 2 years or so

Kwoleck leave Clemson for osu?? In what universe is osu a better lacrosse opportunity than Clemson??

Osu—Columbus. Bad weather. Big 10 which isn’t as good a conference as the ACC. A tradition of lacrosse mediocrity.

Clemson is an acc school and is giving kwolek huge support, a dedicated facility and a huge push to succeed. In spartenburg, which not only is a beautiful campus but also has great weather—and is in the south which is a big draw versus Ohio.

I predict clemson will be a perennial top 20 program starting in 3-4 years.

I would not say the same thing of OSU….

Clemson is nowhere near Spartanburg...

Joe

And, if you're going to choose a random city in Upstate SC, Greenville is a lot closer to Clemson than Spartanburg.

A lot closer, nicer, bigger, and <insert any other positive adjective here> ... makes me doubt someone's knowledge of what Clemson (the city) is really like.

I will also add that OSU's athletic department could buy and sell Clemson's athletic depart two to three times over. Clemson's athletic department was actually in a world of hurt financially until Dabo Swinney started winning. In fact, a big part of why Swinney was hired/promoted after Clemson fired Tommy Bowden was due to Clemson not having the money to attract a proven coach.

re: Clemson softball early success - apples and oranges versus lacrosse. SC is geographically located in and near a softball hotbed area/s - it is actually shocking that they did not already have a softball team (see previously mentioned financial issues). SC is not really located anywhere near any lacrosse hotbeds.

[PhanLax99]

Anyone for Alex Kehoe at St. Joe's?

This is a great name to bring up! Has a done a fantastic job their and has shown the ability to get the most out of her team. Fantastic option for OSU!

[championxxx]

Would love to see OSU consider Janine Tucker

[wlaxphan20]

Like the Klaes and Kelly options. Make them say no.

If they go outside the box, how much to get Taylor Cummings to move to Columbus?

I don’t think she’s looking to coach in college, but I don’t know her personally. She’s recently married, owns a home in MD, and seems happy with the HC position at McDonogh, her own brand, color commentating, doing private lessons, etc. But I guess you should never say never?

I take this back, based on her last Instagram post Cummings just resigned as the Mcdonogh HC

[watcherinthewoods]

Like the Klaes and Kelly options. Make them say no.

If they go outside the box, how much to get Taylor Cummings to move to Columbus?

I don’t think she’s looking to coach in college, but I don’t know her personally. She’s recently married, owns a home in MD, and seems happy with the HC position at McDonogh, her own brand, color commentating, doing private lessons, etc. But I guess you should never say never?

I take this back, based on her last Instagram post Cummings just resigned as the Mcdonogh HC

The plot has definitely thickened https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/high-sch ... v9ySFxc_Jo

[Seacoaster(1)]

Like the Klaes and Kelly options. Make them say no.

If they go outside the box, how much to get Taylor Cummings to move to Columbus?

I don’t think she’s looking to coach in college, but I don’t know her personally. She’s recently married, owns a home in MD, and seems happy with the HC position at McDonogh, her own brand, color commentating, doing private lessons, etc. But I guess you should never say never?

I take this back, based on her last Instagram post Cummings just resigned as the Mcdonogh HC

The plot has definitely thickened https://www.usalaxmagazine.com/high-sch ... v9ySFxc_Jo

Cummings and Alice Mercer at Ohio State?