UNC v. Denver -- NCAA Quarterfinal

[TNLAX]

Denver has a tough time scheduling the blue bloods of women lacrosse for one simple reason, it doesn’t benefit a “Blue blood” to add Denver to their schedule. it simple doesn’t. The Blue Bloods have everything to loss by playing Denver and nothing to gain at this point. A loss to Denver hurts the Blue Bloods and a win doesn’t help them. So if I am a coach it is easy to avoid playing them especially if it means a home/home games. UNC, for example doesn’t need to or want to fly to Denver for a game and Denver probably doesn’t want to sign up for a one game commitment to play at UNC if UNC won’t commit to travel out to Denver the following year. Replace UNC with any other Blue blood.

[Puck Swami]

Denver has a tough time scheduling the blue bloods of women lacrosse for one simple reason, it doesn’t benefit a “Blue blood” to add Denver to their schedule. it simple doesn’t. The Blue Bloods have everything to loss by playing Denver and nothing to gain at this point. A loss to Denver hurts the Blue Bloods and a win doesn’t help them. So if I am a coach it is easy to avoid playing them especially if it means a home/home games. UNC, for example doesn’t need to or want to fly to Denver for a game and Denver probably doesn’t want to sign up for a one game commitment to play at UNC if UNC won’t commit to travel out to Denver the following year. Replace UNC with any other Blue blood.

You have just made my point about RPI being a poor deciding selection factor, plus the sample size of games is too small.

[Mrs@inthe8m]

You have just made my point about RPI being a poor deciding selection factor, plus the sample size of games is too small.

I'm not saying RPI is perfect, but in recent years the quarterfinals is almost always the top 8 seeds, and the final four the top 4 seeds. That would not happen if RPI was a flawed way to seed the top 8 teams. If it were my decision, I would have put DU 4 and UNC 5; but, a 5 seed beating a 4 seed in a 5-4 game is not this proof of injustice you seem to think it is.

Making the final 4 is tougher path for any program not in the ACC and Big 10, so kudos to Denver for that accomplishment. Maybe it will help them add a better team or two to their OOC schedule. Sorry but most top programs are not going to start traveling to Colorado and California when they have plenty of good out of conference teams a bus ride away, and I don't think they are obligated to do so. It can't be a surprise to DU's coaching staff, players and parents that more travel will be involved for their program to compete at a high level.

[Puck Swami]

Maybe it will help them add a better team or two to their OOC schedule. Sorry but most top programs are not going to start traveling to Colorado and California when they have plenty of good out of conference teams a bus ride away, and I don't think they are obligated to do so. It can't be a surprise to DU's coaching staff, players and parents that more travel will be involved for their program to compete at a high level.

If they could add a better team or two, they would, even on the road. As I've pointed out previously, getting better teams on the schedule is almost impossible, as some programs won't schedule Denver. DU is competing at a high level already, beating nine ranked teams this year, travelling over 20,000 miles to 12 regular season away games in 8 different states and 11 of those games in the eastern time zone, two time zones from home. Five of the first six games were on the road and there were only 7 home games including all of Big East League play. What else do you want Denver to do? No other school in America does what Denver has to do already just to compete in this game. It would be nice if more blue bloods would at least schedule home games against Denver.

[Womenslaxxfan]

Maybe it will help them add a better team or two to their OOC schedule. Sorry but most top programs are not going to start traveling to Colorado and California when they have plenty of good out of conference teams a bus ride away, and I don't think they are obligated to do so. It can't be a surprise to DU's coaching staff, players and parents that more travel will be involved for their program to compete at a high level.

If they could add a better team or two, they would, even on the road. As I've pointed out previously, getting better teams on the schedule is almost impossible, as some programs won't schedule Denver. DU is competing at a high level already, beating nine ranked teams this year, travelling over 20,000 miles to 12 regular season away games in 8 different states and 11 of those games in the eastern time zone, two time zones from home. Five of the first six games were on the road and there were only 7 home games including all of Big East League play. What else do you want Denver to do? No other school in America does what Denver has to do already just to compete in this game. It would be nice if more blue bloods would at least schedule home games against Denver.

After reading this, why would anyone choose to play for Denver?????? Everything Denver has, other schools have. Without all the travel…..

[Puck Swami]

After reading this, why would anyone choose to play for Denver?????? Everything Denver has, other schools have. Without all the travel…..

Simple really. It's about personal growth.

Ask anyone who went to school more than a timezone or two away from where they grew up and they will likely tell you how much they grew as a result of that decision. Starting over in a new region of the county forces you to build networks, take risks and make friends faster. It makes you be more open, more curious and more resilient, as you do more on your own out of necessity. You can can start over and build your own story here, where nobody has already put you in a box.

The biggest thing that Denver offers the East Coast player, in my view, is the opportunity to "Go West" and self-actualize in way that is very hard to do if you stay in the in the east, where so many schools are so similar, parents are so close by, everything is very stratified and there is little need to grow outside your social comfort zone. Choosing a non-traditional pathway to academic growth and personal fullfillment by really going away to school challenges a student to grow more. Only 20% of students nationally choose this go-away path, but for those looking to really grow, it's an amazing option. I know this because I grew up on the East Coast and went to school at Denver, and when I talk to athletes and non-athletes who went here, the same story comes up over and over again. With 70% of the students at Denver coming from out of state, most are really searching for this....

[washedup]

Denver has a tough time scheduling the blue bloods of women lacrosse for one simple reason, it doesn’t benefit a “Blue blood” to add Denver to their schedule. it simple doesn’t. The Blue Bloods have everything to loss by playing Denver and nothing to gain at this point. A loss to Denver hurts the Blue Bloods and a win doesn’t help them. So if I am a coach it is easy to avoid playing them especially if it means a home/home games. UNC, for example doesn’t need to or want to fly to Denver for a game and Denver probably doesn’t want to sign up for a one game commitment to play at UNC if UNC won’t commit to travel out to Denver the following year. Replace UNC with any other Blue blood.

This may no longer be true, but I know at least one team in the top 20 that used to schedule games out west, but stopped doing so after some particularly rough games. This was about 15 years ago and so the women’s game has generally become far more physical, but the coach in question said at the time that they would hesitate to take their team back west until the officiating was more consistent and prepared for high-level games. I haven’t followed if this team has gone back west in recent years, but I think reffing was (and maybe still is?) a legitimate concern. Hard to put the burden on Denver to travel every time, but I do think teams are more open to playing them out east. And quality/consistency of officiating is also a larger issue in terms of growing the game, but that’s a topic for another day.

[Sunnylax]

After reading this, why would anyone choose to play for Denver?????? Everything Denver has, other schools have. Without all the travel…..

Simple really. It's about personal growth.

Ask anyone who went to school more than a timezone or two away from where they grew up and they will likely tell you how much they grew as a result of that decision. Starting over in a new region of the county forces you to build networks, take risks and make friends faster. It makes you be more open, more curious and more resilient, as you do more on your own out of necessity. You can can start over and build your own story here, where nobody has already put you in a box.

The biggest thing that Denver offers the East Coast player, in my view, is the opportunity to "Go West" and self-actualize in way that is very hard to do if you stay in the in the east, where so many schools are so similar, parents are so close by, everything is very stratified and there is little need to grow outside your social comfort zone. Choosing a non-traditional pathway to academic growth and personal fullfillment by really going away to school challenges a student to grow more. Only 20% of students nationally choose this go-away path, but for those looking to really grow, it's an amazing option. I know this because I grew up on the East Coast and went to school at Denver, and when I talk to athletes and non-athletes who went here, the same story comes up over and over again. With 70% of the students at Denver coming from out of state, most are really searching for this....

Many NE student/athletes experience the same moving to a southern school where traveling there is flight worthy.

[DMac]

After reading this, why would anyone choose to play for Denver?????? Everything Denver has, other schools have. Without all the travel…..

Simple really. It's about personal growth.

Ask anyone who went to school more than a timezone or two away from where they grew up and they will likely tell you how much they grew as a result of that decision. Starting over in a new region of the county forces you to build networks, take risks and make friends faster. It makes you be more open, more curious and more resilient, as you do more on your own out of necessity. You can can start over and build your own story here, where nobody has already put you in a box.

The biggest thing that Denver offers the East Coast player, in my view, is the opportunity to "Go West" and self-actualize in way that is very hard to do if you stay in the in the east, where so many schools are so similar, parents are so close by, everything is very stratified and there is little need to grow outside your social comfort zone. Choosing a non-traditional pathway to academic growth and personal fullfillment by really going away to school challenges a student to grow more. Only 20% of students nationally choose this go-away path, but for those looking to really grow, it's an amazing option. I know this because I grew up on the East Coast and went to school at Denver, and when I talk to athletes and non-athletes who went here, the same story comes up over and over again. With 70% of the students at Denver coming from out of state, most are really searching for this....

Nice pitch. Was a Navy recruiter for nearly four years, used much the same pitch only you might end up in Subic Bay.
Never once missed quota.
GO NAVY!!!!

[Sunnylax]

After reading this, why would anyone choose to play for Denver?????? Everything Denver has, other schools have. Without all the travel…..

Simple really. It's about personal growth.

Ask anyone who went to school more than a timezone or two away from where they grew up and they will likely tell you how much they grew as a result of that decision. Starting over in a new region of the county forces you to build networks, take risks and make friends faster. It makes you be more open, more curious and more resilient, as you do more on your own out of necessity. You can can start over and build your own story here, where nobody has already put you in a box.

The biggest thing that Denver offers the East Coast player, in my view, is the opportunity to "Go West" and self-actualize in way that is very hard to do if you stay in the in the east, where so many schools are so similar, parents are so close by, everything is very stratified and there is little need to grow outside your social comfort zone. Choosing a non-traditional pathway to academic growth and personal fullfillment by really going away to school challenges a student to grow more. Only 20% of students nationally choose this go-away path, but for those looking to really grow, it's an amazing option. I know this because I grew up on the East Coast and went to school at Denver, and when I talk to athletes and non-athletes who went here, the same story comes up over and over again. With 70% of the students at Denver coming from out of state, most are really searching for this....

Nice pitch. Was a Navy recruiter for nearly four years, used much the same pitch only you might end up in Subic Bay.
Never once missed quota.
GO NAVY!!!!

[Old Bay addict]

WHAT was that call on Denver?!?!?! BWW clearly PLOWED through the pick ... flattened the Curry with her feet set and position established ... and the ball went to UNC!?!?! WTH!?!?!

can't set a blind pick. not like bball.

Was not blind ... she was facing the player. Horrible call.

yes it was and she was not given room to move. so not horrible

At the end it seemed to me that UNC’s lack of experienced players, no one willing to step up, and poor game planning by levy/McCool doomed the heels . #14 on D a weak link all season. But overall D and goalie did their jobs . Only player willing to muscle through to score was long. Next year they get the top recruit and don’t lose any key players . In theory they should be good.

Hard to say anything really negative about the UNC defense, and I don't, respectfully, think singling out Lawton is entirely fair. UNC goalie made timely stops. Defense held a good, well-coached team with good athletes to five goals. If there is a story that is negative for UNC, it is offense and the inability to crack a very good zone. Certainly in-game coaching has something to do with that. But I tend to hand it to Denver, rather than take UNC players or staff to task. JMO.

So you are then saying - you think UNC coaching staff had them prepared offensively ? I don’t think they made any in game adjustments . Move wurtz up top, move Reilly behind. Take out sconnone and put in Motice. Coaches made no in game adjustments . And their “heir apparent” didn’t take one shot. It only aggravates me because of all the hype . JMO

Well, not exactly. Here is part of what I said:

"If there is a story that is negative for UNC, it is offense and the inability to crack a very good zone. Certainly in-game coaching has something to do with that. "

So, yes, the UNC staff gets a little of my opprobrium. If the idea was to get the Denver zone out of shape a bit, create space and shooting space opportunities, I'll say this: there was very little motion, particularly a weave from the elbows and top might've helped and was certainly worth a try. It was a little perplexing.

Looking at it from the outside, 4 goals is embarrassing for Carolina no matter the defense. In 2021 and 2022 they had an overwhelming amount of talent on offense, that probably covered up some offensive strategy/coaching flaws. Rumor mill said 2021 offensive chemistry was altered with unnecessary personnel decisions. If the memory serves me, they beat BC with a running clock early in the season, and then lost to them in the final four. Katrina Dowds jettison was probably also a part of the problem on offense. They were the best team in women’s lacrosse from 2020 to 2022 and could’ve won three straight take away the Covid year if Dowd is running the offense. . Agree 100% of experience plays a part of it and big games. Hall was the only 2018 that played a significant role this year, and she plays D. Hillmans nagging injuries, Newman, season, ending injury, and the departure of Wareheim as a veteran offensive zone buster all played a part with the lack of big game experience. Those young players will get better, and they’ll be tough again next year reloading with more recruits and transfers. Interested to see how the big seven ACC possibly pulling out will impact Carolinas lacrosse recruiting, because that conference is hands-down, the best women’s lacrosse in the country. Will top level kids still go there if they’re in another conference?

[Seacoaster(1)]

[/quote]

Interested to see how the big seven ACC possibly pulling out will impact Carolinas lacrosse recruiting, because that conference is hands-down, the best women’s lacrosse in the country. Will top level kids still go there if they’re in another conference?
[/quote]

Pulling out? Can you explain what this means?

[watcherinthewoods]

Interested to see how the big seven ACC possibly pulling out will impact Carolinas lacrosse recruiting, because that conference is hands-down, the best women’s lacrosse in the country. Will top level kids still go there if they’re in another conference?
[/quote]

Pulling out? Can you explain what this means?
[/quote]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... r-reports/

[wlaxphan20]

Interested to see how the big seven ACC possibly pulling out will impact Carolinas lacrosse recruiting, because that conference is hands-down, the best women’s lacrosse in the country. Will top level kids still go there if they’re in another conference?

Pulling out? Can you explain what this means?
[/quote]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... r-reports/
[/quote]


This piqued my interest when the rumors first came out. I’m assuming they would remain affiliate members of the ACC for lacrosse if allowed, or more intriguingly, look to get the sport sponsored by the SEC of enough ACC teams move to that conference - would certainly be interesting for Florida and Vanderbilt as well. But I think that’s a long shot…and personally, I’d like to see the ACC remain intact.

[watcherinthewoods]

There is big money on the table. One of the last things they are considering/discussing are the potential consequences for non-rev sports.

[wlaxphan20]

There is big money on the table. One of the last things they are considering/discussing are the potential consequences for non-rev sports.

Oh absolutely. None of these moves are made with non-rev sports in mind. Just interested to see how non-revenue sports adjust after decisions are made.

[BryanLax]

Interested to see how the big seven ACC possibly pulling out will impact Carolinas lacrosse recruiting, because that conference is hands-down, the best women’s lacrosse in the country. Will top level kids still go there if they’re in another conference?

Pulling out? Can you explain what this means?
[/quote]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... r-reports/
[/quote]
If they go to the Big 10... I would doubt this would hurt them at all in recruiting. It might actually improve especially if they go with UVA, Clemson and a Florida school. Not saying that is what is going to happen... but it might actually hurt the remaining ACC schools more.

Like what if UNC, UVA, Clemson and Miami go to the BIG 10; FSU & VT go to the SEC; NC State, GTech, UL, and Pitt go to the Big 12. Syracuse, Duke, BC and Wake... what would they do? Would they try the Big East? AAC? In that case the WLax schools like Syracuse, Duke and BC would be hurt more.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Interested to see how the big seven ACC possibly pulling out will impact Carolinas lacrosse recruiting, because that conference is hands-down, the best women’s lacrosse in the country. Will top level kids still go there if they’re in another conference?

Pulling out? Can you explain what this means?
[/quote]

https://www.cbssports.com/college-footb ... r-reports/
[/quote]

Watcher, thanks. I don’t follow this stuff.