American Educational System

[old salt]

Colorado has no one to blame but themselves.
https://co.chalkbeat.org/2022/8/19/2331 ... alty-study

Back when there were fewer professions open or welcoming to women, my future wife put herself through her final 2 years of undergrad college working as a lab tech at Ralston Purina then Monsanto, thanks to her grades in her first 2 years as a chem major. Had she completed her degree as a chem major, she would have been offered an entry level chemist job at either. She evaluated her career prospects, as a women in that profession, & she opted to become a public school teacher, knowing she was guaranteed a teaching job in our home school district from which we had graduated.
She readily admits that a major reason she chose teaching & it's lesser salary-- shorter working hours, more holidays & the ability to travel during the summer. Our school district paid less than the schools in neighboring StL County. Most of the faculty were from southern MO, AR & MS who moved north for better salaries & to be close to a big city. Back then, there were fewer school administrators, support staff & no school nurses. Dept Heads taught a full course load. There was no teachers union. Somehow, we managed to gain educations of sufficient quality to enter, earn scholarships & complete some of the most rigorous & competitive colleges. By the time we married, my wife had taught there for 3 years, earned her Masters, purchased & condo & a new Mustang, was making her payments & travelling summers & holidays (to visit me). She chose teaching, expecting to make less, for the job satisfaction, portability of finding employment if she moved & for a less competitive working environment. Over the years, watching her help handle our personal finances & building her animal rescue organization, network, & low cost vet clinic, I'm confident she could have built a thriving business, or thrived in a corporate environment . She'd have been a corporate killer, but she wouldn't do anything different if she could.

[a fan]

Colorado has no one to blame but themselves.
https://co.chalkbeat.org/2022/8/19/2331 ... alty-study

That's right! And you think this doesn't make my points for me?

As I just said: And for the record? I firmly believe that I AM the American Right. I'm sick of watching coastal elite libs get further and further ahead while I watch rural Colorado fall further and further behind. I want to pump the US's absurd GDP into their communities, and give them access to a world-class education, because that's where our next scientist, violin player, or great lacrosse player lives.

Right now? We're letting millions of American children and their potentials go to waste. I hate it.

So you already said spending money is dumb....so what's your solution?

Back when there were fewer professions open or welcoming to women, my future wife put herself through her final 2 years of undergrad college working as a lab tech at Ralston Purina then Monsanto, thanks to her grades in her first 2 years as a chem major. Had she completed her degree as a chem major, she would have been offered an entry level chemist job at either. She evaluated her career prospects, as a women in that profession, & she opted to become a public school teacher, knowing she was guaranteed a teaching job in our home school district from which we had graduated.
She readily admits that a major reason she chose teaching & it's lesser salary-- shorter working hours, more holidays & the ability to travel during the summer. Our school district paid less than the schools in neighboring StL County. Most of the faculty were from southern MO, AR & MS who moved north for better salaries & to be close to a big city. Back then, there were fewer school administrators, support staff & no school nurses. Dept Heads taught a full course load. There was no teachers union. Somehow, we managed to gain educations of sufficient quality to enter, earn scholarships & complete some of the most rigorous & competitive colleges. By the time we married, my wife had taught there for 3 years, earned her Masters, purchased & condo & a new Mustang, was making her payments & travelling summers & holidays (to visit me). She chose teaching, expecting to make less, for the job satisfaction, portability of finding employment if she moved & for a less competitive working environment. Over the years, watching her help handle our personal finances & building her animal rescue organization, network, & low cost vet clinic, I'm confident she could have built a thriving business, or thrived in a corporate environment . She'd have been a corporate killer, but she wouldn't do anything different if she could.

And my dad grew up on a small, poorly run Farm near Syracuse, and wound up at Harvard. His dad pulled him off the farm because he got a job making candles in Syracuse.

A, That was 50 years ago. Educational needs are entirely different in 2023, to put it midly.

B. You're describing two people out of a few thousand. Did everyone in your town go where you did for school and have your level of success?

[old salt]

Colorado has no one to blame but themselves.
https://co.chalkbeat.org/2022/8/19/2331 ... alty-study

That's right! And you think this doesn't make my points for me?

As I just said: And for the record? I firmly believe that I AM the American Right. I'm sick of watching coastal elite libs get further and further ahead while I watch rural Colorado fall further and further behind. I want to pump the US's absurd GDP into their communities, and give them access to a world-class education, because that's where our next scientist, violin player, or great lacrosse player lives.

Right now? We're letting millions of American children and their potentials go to waste. I hate it.

So you already said spending money is dumb....so what's your solution?

Back when there were fewer professions open or welcoming to women, my future wife put herself through her final 2 years of undergrad college working as a lab tech at Ralston Purina then Monsanto, thanks to her grades in her first 2 years as a chem major. Had she completed her degree as a chem major, she would have been offered an entry level chemist job at either. She evaluated her career prospects, as a women in that profession, & she opted to become a public school teacher, knowing she was guaranteed a teaching job in our home school district from which we had graduated.
She readily admits that a major reason she chose teaching & it's lesser salary-- shorter working hours, more holidays & the ability to travel during the summer. Our school district paid less than the schools in neighboring StL County. Most of the faculty were from southern MO, AR & MS who moved north for better salaries & to be close to a big city. Back then, there were fewer school administrators, support staff & no school nurses. Dept Heads taught a full course load. There was no teachers union. Somehow, we managed to gain educations of sufficient quality to enter, earn scholarships & complete some of the most rigorous & competitive colleges. By the time we married, my wife had taught there for 3 years, earned her Masters, purchased & condo & a new Mustang, was making her payments & travelling summers & holidays (to visit me). She chose teaching, expecting to make less, for the job satisfaction, portability of finding employment if she moved & for a less competitive working environment. Over the years, watching her help handle our personal finances & building her animal rescue organization, network, & low cost vet clinic, I'm confident she could have built a thriving business, or thrived in a corporate environment . She'd have been a corporate killer, but she wouldn't do anything different if she could.

And my dad grew up on a small, poorly run Farm near Syracuse, and wound up at Harvard. His dad pulled him off the farm because he got a job making candles in Syracuse.

A, That was 50 years ago. Educational needs are entirely different in 2023, to put it midly.

B. You're describing two people out of a few thousand. Did everyone in your town go where you did for school and have your level of success?

I say again, CO has no one to blame but themselves. Charity begins at home. It's not other states populations responsibility to make up for CO residents paying less. You wanna see my MD state & local income & property tax bills ? Were state & local taxes a factor in your return to CO ?

My HS best friend (& FB teammate) gained entry to West Point, graduated & earned a commission.
obtw, his parents were school teachers from MS, recruited to teach in our district by our Supt, who also hailed from MS.
We had numerous classmates complete college & go on to successful professional careers.

[a fan]

I say again, CO has no one to blame but themselves. Charity begins at home.

How many more times do you plan on making my point for me?

All you're telling me is that you don't know what to do about failing schools, and you don't actually care about your fellow Americans in rural America, where the tax base is nowhere big enough to pay for anything but below-par education.

That's fine. We can move on.

It's not other states populations responsibility to make up for CO residents paying less.

That's a completely fair view. The problem is, this doesn't comport with reality, and smaller States with lower GDP take far, far more money from Federal coffers than they get.

Did you notice how much money was earmarked for Rural America in the Biden Infrastructure Bill? Do you think the people of West Virginia can pay for bridges, dams, road, hospitals, etc. without Federal help?

You wanna see my MD state & local income & property tax bills ?

Oh, I get it. Again, you're making my points for me over and over and over.

What you're telling me is: rich counties get great schools, poor ones don't.

And you're okay with that. And that's fine.

This is why you can't tell me how to fix America's educational problems. You haven't a clue, and don't want the Federal government to step in like they did with the GI Bill.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Colorado has no one to blame but themselves.
https://co.chalkbeat.org/2022/8/19/2331 ... alty-study

That's right! And you think this doesn't make my points for me?

As I just said: And for the record? I firmly believe that I AM the American Right. I'm sick of watching coastal elite libs get further and further ahead while I watch rural Colorado fall further and further behind. I want to pump the US's absurd GDP into their communities, and give them access to a world-class education, because that's where our next scientist, violin player, or great lacrosse player lives.

Right now? We're letting millions of American children and their potentials go to waste. I hate it.

So you already said spending money is dumb....so what's your solution?

Back when there were fewer professions open or welcoming to women, my future wife put herself through her final 2 years of undergrad college working as a lab tech at Ralston Purina then Monsanto, thanks to her grades in her first 2 years as a chem major. Had she completed her degree as a chem major, she would have been offered an entry level chemist job at either. She evaluated her career prospects, as a women in that profession, & she opted to become a public school teacher, knowing she was guaranteed a teaching job in our home school district from which we had graduated.
She readily admits that a major reason she chose teaching & it's lesser salary-- shorter working hours, more holidays & the ability to travel during the summer. Our school district paid less than the schools in neighboring StL County. Most of the faculty were from southern MO, AR & MS who moved north for better salaries & to be close to a big city. Back then, there were fewer school administrators, support staff & no school nurses. Dept Heads taught a full course load. There was no teachers union. Somehow, we managed to gain educations of sufficient quality to enter, earn scholarships & complete some of the most rigorous & competitive colleges. By the time we married, my wife had taught there for 3 years, earned her Masters, purchased & condo & a new Mustang, was making her payments & travelling summers & holidays (to visit me). She chose teaching, expecting to make less, for the job satisfaction, portability of finding employment if she moved & for a less competitive working environment. Over the years, watching her help handle our personal finances & building her animal rescue organization, network, & low cost vet clinic, I'm confident she could have built a thriving business, or thrived in a corporate environment . She'd have been a corporate killer, but she wouldn't do anything different if she could.

And my dad grew up on a small, poorly run Farm near Syracuse, and wound up at Harvard. His dad pulled him off the farm because he got a job making candles in Syracuse.

A, That was 50 years ago. Educational needs are entirely different in 2023, to put it midly.

B. You're describing two people out of a few thousand. Did everyone in your town go where you did for school and have your level of success?

I say again, CO has no one to blame but themselves. Charity begins at home. It's not other states populations responsibility to make up for CO residents paying less. You wanna see my MD state & local income & property tax bills ? Were state & local taxes a factor in your return to CO ?

My HS best friend (& FB teammate) gained entry to West Point, graduated & earned a commission.
obtw, his parents were school teachers from MS, recruited to teach in our district by our Supt, who also hailed from MS.
We had numerous classmates complete college & go on to successful professional careers.

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

[a fan]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

[old salt]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

That's funny. With my brother still running the family grocery business & my sister living across the highway from the new HS, I'm in as close touch with my hometown schoolmates as I am with my USNA classmates. My wife just returned from BWI, picking up her sister, who flew in from StL for a weeks visit to our Ocean City timeshare, as she does twice a year. Keep making your clueless assumptions.

It was a rural farm community becoming a x-burb un-zoned blue collar bedroom commuter.
Fri was the biggest day of the week in the grocery store. Lots of UAW paychecks cashed every wk.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

[old salt]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

More clueless assumptions & baseless projections.

A JuCo opened in our county two years before my class graduated & grew rapidly. An AA degree transferred all credits to any MO state U, including UMSL (a commuter university in StL) & Missouri School of Mines (now Missouri Tech) in nearby Rolla. Mizzou was just a 2-3 hr drive away.
That's where most of my schoolmates got their college degrees. Most of us were first generation college grads -- typical of the early boomer gen.

Any able bodied 16 year old male could get a UAW job at the nearby Chrysler plant, which would still be there waiting for them after they returned from enlisting or being drafted.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

More clueless assumptions & baseless projections.

A JuCo opened in our county two years before my class graduated & grew rapidly. An AA degree transferred all credits to any MO state U, including UMSL (a commuter university in StL) & Missouri School of Mines (now Missouri Tech) in nearby Rolla. Mizzou was just a 2-3 hr drive away.
That's where most of my schoolmates got their college degrees. Most of us were first generation college grads -- typical of the early boomer gen.

Any able bodied 16 year old male could get a UAW job at the nearby Chrysler plant, which would still be there waiting for them after they returned from enlisting or being drafted.

Was that an “average” community? My sister worked UAW…BTW. The statistics were what they were. College was a privilege.

[DMac]

.....and those abled bodies were able to pass the physical (which really aint all that hard) when enlisting or being drafted.
This is a damn sad situation.

A new study from the Pentagon shows that 77% of young Americans would not qualify for military service without a waiver due to being overweight, using drugs or having mental and physical health problems.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/202 ... 20problems.

[NattyBohChamps04]

Colorado has no one to blame but themselves.
https://co.chalkbeat.org/2022/8/19/2331 ... alty-study

That's right! And you think this doesn't make my points for me?

As I just said: And for the record? I firmly believe that I AM the American Right. I'm sick of watching coastal elite libs get further and further ahead while I watch rural Colorado fall further and further behind. I want to pump the US's absurd GDP into their communities, and give them access to a world-class education, because that's where our next scientist, violin player, or great lacrosse player lives.

Right now? We're letting millions of American children and their potentials go to waste. I hate it.

So you already said spending money is dumb....so what's your solution?

More Colorado shenanigans

A Colorado school board was taken over by Trump-loving conservatives. Now nearly half its high-school teachers are bailing.

A new school board quickly enacted its agenda in Woodland Park. Now teachers are leaving and the board faces growing opposition, including from lifelong GOP voters.

Some interesting stuff in the article about gutting mental health resources. You hear that all these school shootings are a "mental health" thing from Republicans. Yet they're against mental health resources in schools. That dog don't hunt.

[old salt]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

More clueless assumptions & baseless projections.

A JuCo opened in our county two years before my class graduated & grew rapidly. An AA degree transferred all credits to any MO state U, including UMSL (a commuter university in StL) & Missouri School of Mines (now Missouri Tech) in nearby Rolla. Mizzou was just a 2-3 hr drive away.
That's where most of my schoolmates got their college degrees. Most of us were first generation college grads -- typical of the early boomer gen.

Any able bodied 16 year old male could get a UAW job at the nearby Chrysler plant, which would still be there waiting for them after they returned from enlisting or being drafted.

Was that an “average” community? My sister worked UAW…BTW.

It was below average compared to neighboring StL County suburb communities & south StL neighborhoods & school districts.
Many commuters (mostly blue collar) settled in the northern part of our county because it was unzoned & had lower taxes.
After the largest Chrysler plant in the us opened just north of our county line, a massive (but well maintained) trailer park opened just inside our county line. It attracted many UAW families from IN that moved with the Chrysler plant & attracted many families from further out in rural MO due to the availability of new UAW jobs, which were competing with the draft & enlistments for workers.

It was on par with the rural farm & mining counties & older Mississippi River towns to our south & west.
Our HS athletic conference was named the Mineral Area Conference.
In our HS gym, I saw Bill Bradley play for the Crystal City Hornets. The town was named for the PPG glassworks there.
The glassworks recruited my maternal ancestors from England because they were experienced glass makers.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

More clueless assumptions & baseless projections.

A JuCo opened in our county two years before my class graduated & grew rapidly. An AA degree transferred all credits to any MO state U, including UMSL (a commuter university in StL) & Missouri School of Mines (now Missouri Tech) in nearby Rolla. Mizzou was just a 2-3 hr drive away.
That's where most of my schoolmates got their college degrees. Most of us were first generation college grads -- typical of the early boomer gen.

Any able bodied 16 year old male could get a UAW job at the nearby Chrysler plant, which would still be there waiting for them after they returned from enlisting or being drafted.

Was that an “average” community? My sister worked UAW…BTW.

It was below average compared to neighboring StL County suburb communities & south StL neighborhoods & school districts.
Many commuters (mostly blue collar) settled in the northern part of our county because it was unzoned & had lower taxes.
After the largest Chrysler plant in the us opened just north of our county line, a massive (but well maintained) trailer park opened just inside our county line. It attracted many UAW families from IN that moved with the Chrysler plant & attracted many families from further out in rural MO due to the availability of new UAW jobs, which were competing with the draft & enlistments for workers.

It was on par with the rural farm & mining counties & older Mississippi River towns to our south & west.
Our HS athletic conference was named the Mineral Area Conference.
I saw Bill Bradley play for the Crystal City Hornets. The town was named for the PPG glassworks there.
The glassworks recruited my maternal ancestors from England because they were experienced glass makers.

The ecosystem around auto industry and government bases was a boon to some communities. Seemed like a lot of kids in your community went to college compared to the rest of the country. There is always someone poorer (and weathier) but odds are more people were poorer. College was a privilege back then….still is in some ways but less so. Anyway, I am sure those were good days. I witnessed it myself. In addition to my sister being a UAW member, many family members were. Folks could claw their way up….before “unions are bad” propaganda provided cover to move jobs abroad. Lazy folk in the cities, which is were many of these plants were, don’t want to work hard yada yada yada….. more profits went to fewer people. I imagine Ferguson was nicer when
Jobs were plentiful?

[a fan]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

More clueless assumptions & baseless projections.

A JuCo opened in our county two years before my class graduated & grew rapidly. An AA degree transferred all credits to any MO state U, including UMSL (a commuter university in StL) & Missouri School of Mines (now Missouri Tech) in nearby Rolla. Mizzou was just a 2-3 hr drive away.
That's where most of my schoolmates got their college degrees. Most of us were first generation college grads -- typical of the early boomer gen.

Any able bodied 16 year old male could get a UAW job at the nearby Chrysler plant, which would still be there waiting for them after they returned from enlisting or being drafted.

You're moving the goalposts around because you want to argue. I wrote "didn't fare as well as you did post graduation". You telling me that every kid you graduated with attended an Academy, got a nice paying job after your service, and have what you have in your bank account?

Of course not. You're getting annoyed again...and steering the conversation away from the topic at hand.

And it's because you don't know what to do about America's failed education standards. And that's fine.

[a fan]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

Yup.

At Columbine HS, all the kids I knew even remotely well had two parents, both with college degrees. Littleton back then had three big employers: Lockheed Martin, Johns Mansville, and the Federal Center (my dad). Ken Caryl Ranch? A large planned community tucked into Littleton's foothills? Literally owned by Johns Mansville. It was an active Ranch from its founding in 1971, with cattle and the whole deal.

A lot of young engineers and managers were parents at our school. Result? Everyone I knew well went to a college. Most CU, CSU, Metro Denver, U of N Colorado. A few, like my fellow AP kids hit Ivies or their caliber. Wasn't a rich kid school then....upper middle class to middle class. No one was poor. All the finance kids and CEO's kids lived in Cherry Creek.

We were not average. Most of us started on 2nd base. A few, 3rd. Don't remember any kids that had already hit a home run without ever working.

[PizzaSnake]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

Yup.

At Columbine HS, all the kids I knew even remotely well had two parents, both with college degrees. Littleton back then had three big employers: Lockheed Martin, Johns Mansville, and the Federal Center (my dad). Ken Caryl Ranch? A large planned community tucked into Littleton's foothills? Literally owned by Johns Mansville. It was an active Ranch from its founding in 1971, with cattle and the whole deal.

A lot of young engineers and managers were parents at our school. Result? Everyone I knew well went to a college. Most CU, CSU, Metro Denver, U of N Colorado. A few, like my fellow AP kids hit Ivies or their caliber. Wasn't a rich kid school then....upper middle class to middle class. No one was poor. All the finance kids and CEO's kids lived in Cherry Creek.

We were not average. Most of us started on 2nd base. A few, 3rd. Don't remember any kids that had already hit a home run without ever working.

"he was born on third base and thought he hit a triple."

[Typical Lax Dad]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

Yup.

At Columbine HS, all the kids I knew even remotely well had two parents, both with college degrees. Littleton back then had three big employers: Lockheed Martin, Johns Mansville, and the Federal Center (my dad). Ken Caryl Ranch? A large planned community tucked into Littleton's foothills? Literally owned by Johns Mansville. It was an active Ranch from its founding in 1971, with cattle and the whole deal.

A lot of young engineers and managers were parents at our school. Result? Everyone I knew well went to a college. Most CU, CSU, Metro Denver, U of N Colorado. A few, like my fellow AP kids hit Ivies or their caliber. Wasn't a rich kid school then....upper middle class to middle class. No one was poor. All the finance kids and CEO's kids lived in Cherry Creek.

We were not average. Most of us started on 2nd base. A few, 3rd. Don't remember any kids that had already hit a home run without ever working.

I didn’t know anyone with parents that went to college.

[DMac]

You know that about all your friends parents?
Couldn't begin to tell you how many parents I knew who went to college or not, minus a few.

[a fan]

Must have been a decent community given the country’s drop out rate and college attendance numbers in those days.

Or he didn't spend time with the folks who didn't fare as well as he did post graduation......

College graduation rates increased from 11% to 13.6% in the 1960s and most were of means. As I suspected, not “average” Americans from average communities.

Yup.

At Columbine HS, all the kids I knew even remotely well had two parents, both with college degrees. Littleton back then had three big employers: Lockheed Martin, Johns Mansville, and the Federal Center (my dad). Ken Caryl Ranch? A large planned community tucked into Littleton's foothills? Literally owned by Johns Mansville. It was an active Ranch from its founding in 1971, with cattle and the whole deal.

A lot of young engineers and managers were parents at our school. Result? Everyone I knew well went to a college. Most CU, CSU, Metro Denver, U of N Colorado. A few, like my fellow AP kids hit Ivies or their caliber. Wasn't a rich kid school then....upper middle class to middle class. No one was poor. All the finance kids and CEO's kids lived in Cherry Creek.

We were not average. Most of us started on 2nd base. A few, 3rd. Don't remember any kids that had already hit a home run without ever working.

I didn’t know anyone with parents that went to college.

My mother's father was the first. GI Bill, University of Maryland M Eng,....every kid would to go college whether they wanted to or not. My parents, Cornell & Syracuse for undergrad.

To me, that means I started on 2nd base. Some would say 3rd.