NESCAC

[Jumbo]

On another thread. BUT you don't need to bring attention to it. bunch of trolls.

You're on an online public forum where your post history is easily accessible. This isn't a vacuum. If you say a coach interviewed for a job people are going to try to figure out where he interviewed. It's not hard to figure out who/where you're affiliated with, that's not being a troll, that's being an intelligent person. If you aren't comfortable with those types of things being public knowledge think twice before you share private information in a public forum.

This is supposed to be a forum for people with similar interest to talk about thinks we all like. If the guy posted something and regrets it now. He can delete it. If he asked you to delete something also. Courtesy would be to delete it.

We all have info that we shouldn’t be posting online. Most of us avoid that temptation, but sometimes slip up. Maybe take the high road. ??

[laxdad30]

For the sake of this going away I will delete it. IF all the quotes are deleted as well.

[KingPrat]

And so continues the Trinity revolving door for Head Coaches

New Head Coach is hired with hope for building better team culture
Has some success compared to predecessor
Tries to fight against team/campus fraternity culture, loses
Winning and playoffs remain out of reach
Players become unsettled and start looking at grass on the other side of the fence
Coach raises expectations, tries to hold players accountable
Players revolt (<-- seems like we're here...)
Parents become involved, call for coach to be fired
AD takes notice as Trin is off the books and he wants to ensure major program/athletics donors remain happy
One final season of disastrous unrest/results
Coach fired

And repeat

It's too bad the culture at Trinity is what it is. Lot of fighting with fraternities, rushing, and etc. Has been a struggle for coaching staffs for years. And with so many lax alums who are both frat alums AND major donors, there is a certain understanding between the athletic dept and development that this continue to be a part of the team culture. I'm not saying that other teams don't have players that are involved in fraternities, but there is a different culture with the lax team that is, well, less "regulated" than other teams.

There is so much potential with the Trin lax program that has never been able to be harnessed for long periods of success. Few flash in the pan seasons, but nothing sustainable. Such a shame.

Maybe I'm wrong about Trinity's season this year, but not off to a great start if this is true.

[FairLax]

Interesting response, clearly you have been following the program. Do not understand how they keep getting it wrong. You would think Trinity would be a monster in this league, proximity to the hotbeds, very good school (admission standards that are a bit lower than a number of others in the league) and a school that has had a lot of athletic success in other sports. Is this a case of the coach being way over his skis or is it something else?

[NNELax]

Didn't the old coach commute to Trinity from Weston, MA???

[KingPrat]

Is this a case of the coach being way over his skis or is it something else?

I had a front-row seat to that process.

With the current financial structure of the program, I don't believe there is a coach that could step in there and have true success. IIRC, MLax is the only team sport at Trin that is 100% off the books, meaning they receive no funding from the athletic department budget. (Squash, wrestling, and maybe crew have similar structures) There is a small endowment that covers some of the costs, but the HC is fundraising a significant amount of money just to put gas in the bus.

There is a solid group of alumni who give to the program yearly, but you are also relying on families of current players to fill the piggy bank. When recruiting, there is a focus on talent, but there is also a focus on full-pay families - especially those who has the ability and willingness to give. I know there have been situations where a family has dangled a donation in front of the HC with contingencies - roster spot, playing time, etc.

I've said this for years, but the only way to truly create change at Trin is to take the massive fundraising burden off of the HC. I'm not saying that fundraising shouldn't be a part of the process, many programs use fundraising dollars to pay for trips, new equipment, etc. But at a school with an endowment like Trin's, this shouldn't be the case.

The last few staffs that have been there certainly have had their flaws, but this is the constant. I think it changes the whole mindset around the program if this were to come to fruition. But, with a 75 year history of doing it this way, not sure there's much motivation from the institution to change.

This is just my opinion, obviously...

[FairLax]

If that is truly the case, and I have zero reason to doubt you, then that is ridiculous, especially given a school like Trinity. Parents using their purse strings to influence playing time is crazy. If that is also known it is no wonder they have such large defections. I just would not think it would be seniors.

[DeepPocket]

I had a front-row seat to that process.

With the current financial structure of the program, I don't believe there is a coach that could step in there and have true success. IIRC, MLax is the only team sport at Trin that is 100% off the books, meaning they receive no funding from the athletic department budget. (Squash, wrestling, and maybe crew have similar structures) There is a small endowment that covers some of the costs, but the HC is fundraising a significant amount of money just to put gas in the bus.

There is a solid group of alumni who give to the program yearly, but you are also relying on families of current players to fill the piggy bank. When recruiting, there is a focus on talent, but there is also a focus on full-pay families - especially those who has the ability and willingness to give. I know there have been situations where a family has dangled a donation in front of the HC with contingencies - roster spot, playing time, etc.

I've said this for years, but the only way to truly create change at Trin is to take the massive fundraising burden off of the HC. I'm not saying that fundraising shouldn't be a part of the process, many programs use fundraising dollars to pay for trips, new equipment, etc. But at a school with an endowment like Trin's, this shouldn't be the case.

The last few staffs that have been there certainly have had their flaws, but this is the constant. I think it changes the whole mindset around the program if this were to come to fruition. But, with a 75 year history of doing it this way, not sure there's much motivation from the institution to change.

This is just my opinion, obviously...

Wow. That’s unfortunate for both the coach (no guaranteed support) and the players (no realistic prospect of success).

It’s also interesting to hear a real first hand account. Because some on here broad stroke the NESCACs, in what has to be an intentionally condescending manner, as “the haves” as far as program support, assistant salaries etc.. Guess it isn’t post game lobster tails for all the NESCACs...

[pcowlax]

That is shocking to hear. How the hell did that come to pass that MLax is not school supported? I can guarantee you that if WLax was non-funded but men's was there would such a Title IX ruckus that the AD might be publicly executed. Crew is often almost a hybrid varsity/club team so no surprise there. Whoever has been funneling the NIL cash to squash for the past 20 years clearly has not had any problems. But lacrosse is a core sport at NESCAC schools. I had never heard about this but does go a long way towards explain why what should be a powerhouse program has always scuffled along. Great insight.

[UpperCorner22]

I had a front-row seat to that process.

With the current financial structure of the program, I don't believe there is a coach that could step in there and have true success. IIRC, MLax is the only team sport at Trin that is 100% off the books, meaning they receive no funding from the athletic department budget. (Squash, wrestling, and maybe crew have similar structures) There is a small endowment that covers some of the costs, but the HC is fundraising a significant amount of money just to put gas in the bus.

There is a solid group of alumni who give to the program yearly, but you are also relying on families of current players to fill the piggy bank. When recruiting, there is a focus on talent, but there is also a focus on full-pay families - especially those who has the ability and willingness to give. I know there have been situations where a family has dangled a donation in front of the HC with contingencies - roster spot, playing time, etc.

I've said this for years, but the only way to truly create change at Trin is to take the massive fundraising burden off of the HC. I'm not saying that fundraising shouldn't be a part of the process, many programs use fundraising dollars to pay for trips, new equipment, etc. But at a school with an endowment like Trin's, this shouldn't be the case.

The last few staffs that have been there certainly have had their flaws, but this is the constant. I think it changes the whole mindset around the program if this were to come to fruition. But, with a 75 year history of doing it this way, not sure there's much motivation from the institution to change.

This is just my opinion, obviously...

Wow. That’s unfortunate for both the coach (no guaranteed support) and the players (no realistic prospect of success).

It’s also interesting to hear a real first hand account. Because some on here broad stroke the NESCACs, in what has to be an intentionally condescending manner, as “the haves” as far as program support, assistant salaries etc.. Guess it isn’t post game lobster tails for all the NESCACs...

Wow - this answers a lot of questions about why there's, as someone else said, a football team sized squad of gold helmets on the sidelines... doesn't explain that they never raise the level of play there though - you would think with that many players they could put a decent squad on the field. They peaked in 2019? Seems to me that coaching staff can't recruit in the NESCAC. Paying for playing time - that's insane - could explain why seniors are bugging out if they've had enough. I have heard marginal things from players who have been recruited there. My son played on a club team with a couple players there. Going to do some searching.

All of this while Bowdoin has completely turned their program around, Bates new coach looking very promising, Conn on the up-swing, Hamilton looking solid, Amherst after their troubles still doing well, Williams & Colby have work to do but from a good spot, Middlebury & Wesleyan solid, and Tufts, well, they are probably still Tufts. Of course, maybe other teams have their issues too.

[FairLax]

Very interesting take on the whole situation. The league appears to be as strong as ever and teams that are even slightly dysfunctional run the risk of getting run over. Have re-read the thread and maybe it is none of anyone's business, but I do not really see any reason for the exodus of all these upperclassmen. Simply not liking your coach is an odd reason, how many athletes truly like their coach? Coaches are not in the popularity business, they are there to win and that is it.

[UpperCorner22]

Very interesting take on the whole situation. The league appears to be as strong as ever and teams that are even slightly dysfunctional run the risk of getting run over. Have re-read the thread and maybe it is none of anyone's business, but I do not really see any reason for the exodus of all these upperclassmen. Simply not liking your coach is an odd reason, how many athletes truly like their coach? Coaches are not in the popularity business, they are there to win and that is it.

I would argue that most athletes like their coach - or at least respect them. I understand that they are there to win, and they ain't gettin it done in Hartford. And if any of that pay for play business is real, I would understand the exodus and the lack of respect for the coach 100%. You are correct that this conference is getting tougher and tougher. That's only going to continue - and it's fun to watch. Watching Bowdoin play and how they've been coached is amazing. I think from watching them they are the most synchronized team out there. Tufts may have some better players - but they don't play as a team like Bowdoin. That's only going to continue. Let's see where Bates is in 3 years! Teams that don't follow this model are going to get crushed. But I'm blabbing on. Good day.

[SneaksBeac]

Coaches are not in the popularity business, they are there to win and that is it.

Outside of a few institutions that is not the case at the D3 level.

The majority of the schools in D3 (including the majority if not all of the NESCAC) are actually in the business of recruiting, retaining, and growing young men. If that leads to winning great, but if it leads to a higher happier enrollment of student-athletes, then even better. At the end of the Day winning is extremely important to every single coach who is paid to do so. But that being said if you asked every single one of them what is MOST important to them, winning would be secondary to a lot of different things.

[boredatwork]

Coaches are not in the popularity business, they are there to win and that is it.

Outside of a few institutions that is not the case at the D3 level.

The majority of the schools in D3 (including the majority if not all of the NESCAC) are actually in the business of recruiting, retaining, and growing young men. If that leads to winning great, but if it leads to a higher happier enrollment of student-athletes, then even better. At the end of the Day winning is extremely important to every single coach who is paid to do so. But that being said if you asked every single one of them what is MOST important to them, winning would be secondary to a lot of different things.

I think coaches get into the profession to win, but lacrosse and all athletics is turning into a bed filler at most schools

[FairLax]

All really good points and a very interesting discussion. Not sure I agree in full but respect the thoughts and opinions. I also agree that Bates is moving in the right direction. Hiring Annino was a tremendous move. Again, just my opinion, it is important to hire coaches who know the NESCAC and have experience either as a player or coach in the league. Annino checks that box, not to mention his most recent stint at Johns Hopkins. Now compare that background to that of the Trinity coach and we are talking apples to oranges. Nothing against Bates, but Trinity should not be taking a back seat to Bates in any sport, especially lacrosse.

[laxdad1434]

Why does Trinity do well in Football but not Lacrosse? Most Lacrosse players I know played Football. Why are programs from the same school going in the opposite direction?

[UpperCorner22]

Why does Trinity do well in Football but not Lacrosse? Most Lacrosse players I know played Football. Why are programs from the same school going in the opposite direction?

Sounds like coaching. Or lack thereof in mens lacrosse.

[FairLax]

Laxdad, you are probably correct in that many hs football players also have played lacrosse but not many play both at the college level so not really sure it is relevant that the football program is so good. What is relevant though is that from reading some of these posts it is pretty clear that the lacrosse program is apparently the red headed step child. Also apparent is that there is a coaching issue that is outside of x's and o's and the students are making the decision to step away which is a shame.

[Jumbo]

Laxdad, you are probably correct in that many hs football players also have played lacrosse but not many play both at the college level so not really sure it is relevant that the football program is so good. What is relevant though is that from reading some of these posts it is pretty clear that the lacrosse program is apparently the red headed step child. Also apparent is that there is a coaching issue that is outside of x's and o's and the students are making the decision to step away which is a shame.

I think the amount of kids playing both lacrosse and football in high school, varies by region. In the mid Atlantic, not many kids play both. Looking at my sons team last year, starting kids that also played football . All 3 defenders, 1 defensive middie, one offensive middie. So 5 of the starting 14

[Unknown Participant]

Why does Trinity do well in Football but not Lacrosse? Most Lacrosse players I know played Football. Why are programs from the same school going in the opposite direction?

The hockey team is also really good. in my view, the most talented Nescac team this year.