Inside Lacrosse Top 50

[Sunnylax]

Again, in MHO the top 50 players in the college game should be reserved for the very, very best players. Draw specialists, who have marginal skills beyond the draw itself should not occupy a precious spot in the top 10. There are players ranked on this list in the teens and 20s who have blazing speed, can dodge, can feed, can score and can re-defend far, far better than M Jenner. Many should be ranked higher.

IL got it wrong.

Watch the games closely and you will see her quit in both the Maryland and ACC Notre Dame games on the circle when these critical games were on the line not when out of hand in the second half. One cannot simply look at the stats sheet.

Just because I played in college in the wooden crosse era (ha ha) doesn’t mean I don’t see what my eyes see on the field.

Happy holidays!

nice, totally agree!

[Sunnylax]

That’s why draw controls and draw control specialists are overrated.

Well, then why did you use draw controls as a metric to determine that CN was/is better than JO? Now, suddenly draw controls are overrated?

No contradiction that I can see. My whole issue is with lazy broadcasters constantly parroting to me that if you win the draw you win the game. I never said winning draws isn't important. My contention is they don't guarantee a win if a team ends up with more at the end of the game. Plus I demonstrated that when the chips were down against tough competition--Jenner didn't help Duke win in the least--so yes--draw specialists are overrated. And no one would ever classify The Great One as a draw specialist. Maddie Jenner? Draw Specialist. Katelyn Mashewske? Draw Specialist. Charlotte North? Attacker who does well on draws. The fact that North put up just as many points as JO and won draws makes her a more valuable player.

Not this past year. Not good enough to beat UNC...3 times & esp 2 biggest games ACCs and natty championship. You are always consumed with "as many points" it shouldn't just be a stats thing. The goal is to win not just put up stats.

+1000!!!!

[njbill]

Watch the games closely and you will see her quit in both the Maryland and ACC Notre Dame games on the circle when these critical games were on the line not when out of hand in the second half. One cannot simply look at the stats sheet.

I watched both games. It is complete and utter baloney to say that she quit. That’s a really serious (and false) accusation to make about a player, but I guess that’s your cup of tea.

There’s pretty obviously an agenda going on here. I’m going to try to figure out what it is.

Folks are entitled to their opinions which can sometimes be tainted or biased. So what. Doc has good reason to harbor ongoing resentment against a certain team for reasons known to him which he may or may not have shared with others. I don't blame him for an instant. He has every right to have that bias. I applaud him for it. After all, and I've said this multiple times, we're only talking about sports, and athletes playing sports. If momlax has an agenda against a certain player, and I'm neither confirming nor denying that she does, then so be it. She wouldn't be the first person on these boards who held a different opinion about a certain player. You should know that better than anyone, Bill.

Mom has now twice stated that Jenner “quit” as a fact, not an opinion. It would be bad enough if she were expressing this view as an opinion, but she has not qualified it as such and, indeed, has doubled down.

Short of accusing a player of cheating, saying someone quit is about as bad a thing as you can say about an athlete. Far, far worse than any opinion I have ever expressed about Charlotte North. I have never said she is a cheater or a quitter. Nor would I.

You should be able to see the difference.

I’m not trying to censor mom, but I am going to come down hard on her if this brand new poster keeps saying stuff that’s beyond the pale.

I suspect she is the parent of a current college player. Parents don’t sign up to post when their kid is in eighth grade or when their kid is out of college for five years. It seems clear to me that she has some type of agenda about Jenner. Maybe mom’s daughter was ranked below Jenner on the IL list and mom is not happy about that.

I have no problem with people having disagreements about the list. I do as well. People put way too much stock in lists of this nature. But it is an entirely different thing to call a player a quitter who is perhaps listed above your daughter on a list simply because you think your daughter is a better player.

Undercutting a player’s abilities to challenge their comparative position on a list is fair game. Calling them a quitter is not.

Lastly, mom is wrong. She is intentionally conflating Jenner perhaps being out played for portions of games with her quitting in those games. Also saying she was “totally dominated” is flat out wrong.

[Bart]

Terribly said. Anybody who watches the game should know she does the draw and plays attack. She does not play defense. She is a Top 10 player with just her amazing draw skills. Anything you get on offense is a bonus.

Not on all if many coaches wish list.

You completely right. Very few coaches are going to want those 233 draw controls.

[Sunnylax]

Yes, today’s game is exponentially better!!!

Totally agree! I started playing the first year the plastic heads were an option for girls. I chose that over the wooden beast but there was still a learning curve with even that because of the NO pocket! I remember in HS, playing on football field with a track around it. I was fast so the goalie chucked it over my head, I scooped it up ran down the track cut back onto the field once I reached the offensive end. The boundary-less field was crazy! amongst other things.
Today's game is awesome!

[Sunnylax]

Terribly said. Anybody who watches the game should know she does the draw and plays attack. She does not play defense. She is a Top 10 player with just her amazing draw skills. Anything you get on offense is a bonus.

Not on all if many coaches wish list.

You completely right. Very few coaches are going to want those 233 draw controls.

Most of which she got from playing Detroit mercy, Cleveland st and all of the other dominant lax programs that Duke plays. And with all of those draw controls, how exactly did they help duke? did they win anything? ACC's,. NCAA's ? against good times, she doesn't necessarily dominate and when pressured after she gathers a draw, often loses it or throws a bad pass. Let's just say it, she klutzy.

[njbill]

And then there were the 10 draws she got against Syracuse, 10 she got against Notre Dame (regular season), 12 against Boston College (leading her team to an upset win), and 11 against North Carolina.

Yeah, she’s surely chopped liver.

[Bart]

Terribly said. Anybody who watches the game should know she does the draw and plays attack. She does not play defense. She is a Top 10 player with just her amazing draw skills. Anything you get on offense is a bonus.

Not on all if many coaches wish list.

You completely right. Very few coaches are going to want those 233 draw controls.

Most of which she got from playing Detroit mercy, Cleveland st and all of the other dominant lax programs that Duke plays. And with all of those draw controls, how exactly did they help duke? did they win anything? ACC's,. NCAA's ? against good times, she doesn't necessarily dominate and when pressured after she gathers a draw, often loses it or throws a bad pass. Let's just say it, she klutzy.

Complete and utter BS there. She averaged 11.65 dcg in the ACC the next highest was Meshewske at SU at 8.48 dcg. That is 3 chances per game more so score. But you are right.....those ACC teams are all crappy teams.

It is as simple as increased chances. That is it. You going to tell me that coaches would not want that? I will ask you to go out and show me one coach...1 that would not want a dominant draw player that on average gives them 3 more chances to score per game. In this entire conversation people conflate what was done and the chances to score. That is what a draw player give you...chances to score.

OH...btw, they did not play Detroit Mercy and Cleveland State does not even have a women's team.

[njbill]

OH...btw, they did not play Detroit Mercy and Cleveland State does not even have a women's team.

So Jenner got zero draw controls against those teams. Bench her!

[wlaxphan20]

Terribly said. Anybody who watches the game should know she does the draw and plays attack. She does not play defense. She is a Top 10 player with just her amazing draw skills. Anything you get on offense is a bonus.

Not on all if many coaches wish list.

You completely right. Very few coaches are going to want those 233 draw controls.

Most of which she got from playing Detroit mercy, Cleveland st and all of the other dominant lax programs that Duke plays. And with all of those draw controls, how exactly did they help duke? did they win anything? ACC's,. NCAA's ? against good times, she doesn't necessarily dominate and when pressured after she gathers a draw, often loses it or throws a bad pass. Let's just say it, she klutzy.

I disagree, mostly with the section I italicized, and think you might be misremembering and/or grossly exaggerating. She only had 19 TOs on the year. She shot 0.577 on 50 shots and was 5th on the team in points and 4th in goals. In conference, she is still 4th in goals and 5th in points, shot .542 on 25 shots, and only had 8 turnovers…

And not for nothing, didn’t she have the GWG over BC?

[DMac]

Yes, today’s game is exponentially better!!!

Totally agree! I started playing the first year the plastic heads were an option for girls. I chose that over the wooden beast but there was still a learning curve with even that because of the NO pocket! I remember in HS, playing on football field with a track around it. I was fast so the goalie chucked it over my head, I scooped it up ran down the track cut back onto the field once I reached the offensive end. The boundary-less field was crazy! amongst other things.
Today's game is awesome!

This is why, IMO, the explosion of girls playing wlax is what it is and it aint stopping any time soon . Yesteryear's game didn't attract nearly the number of girls that today's game does. It was such a restrictive game with all the whistles, stop and go, repositioning, and fustercluck of bodies on the draw. Lookin' a lot like mlax today, ladies....doubt it'll be too long before it's a 10v10 game too.

Bart and co. are dead nuts on the money, Jenner was an absolute force who was a nightmare for any opposing coach and a wet dream for any coach who could get her. Nope, not the most agile or fleet of foot but an absolute force nonetheless. I always felt she should have been used more on the O end of the field, I would have found a way to get that big body the ball in front of the cage more often and let her shoot. To knock her is kind of nuts, I'll take her any day.

[njbill]

Yeah, the game has come a long way. I wasn’t watching when it was 11 on 11, but can you imagine trying to run an offense against 11 defenders? Also all 11 could crash the draw circle on the draw. Last year someone posted a gif from Braveheart, which had me laughing for days.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Watch the games closely and you will see her quit in both the Maryland and ACC Notre Dame games on the circle when these critical games were on the line not when out of hand in the second half. One cannot simply look at the stats sheet.

I watched both games. It is complete and utter baloney to say that she quit. That’s a really serious (and false) accusation to make about a player, but I guess that’s your cup of tea.

There’s pretty obviously an agenda going on here. I’m going to try to figure out what it is.

Folks are entitled to their opinions which can sometimes be tainted or biased. So what. Doc has good reason to harbor ongoing resentment against a certain team for reasons known to him which he may or may not have shared with others. I don't blame him for an instant. He has every right to have that bias. I applaud him for it. After all, and I've said this multiple times, we're only talking about sports, and athletes playing sports. If momlax has an agenda against a certain player, and I'm neither confirming nor denying that she does, then so be it. She wouldn't be the first person on these boards who held a different opinion about a certain player. You should know that better than anyone, Bill.

Mom has now twice stated that Jenner “quit” as a fact, not an opinion. It would be bad enough if she were expressing this view as an opinion, but she has not qualified it as such and, indeed, has doubled down.

Short of accusing a player of cheating, saying someone quit is about as bad a thing as you can say about an athlete. Far, far worse than any opinion I have ever expressed about Charlotte North. I have never said she is a cheater or a quitter. Nor would I.

You should be able to see the difference.

I’m not trying to censor mom, but I am going to come down hard on her if this brand new poster keeps saying stuff that’s beyond the pale.

I suspect she is the parent of a current college player. Parents don’t sign up to post when their kid is in eighth grade or when their kid is out of college for five years. It seems clear to me that she has some type of agenda about Jenner. Maybe mom’s daughter was ranked below Jenner on the IL list and mom is not happy about that.

I have no problem with people having disagreements about the list. I do as well. People put way too much stock in lists of this nature. But it is an entirely different thing to call a player a quitter who is perhaps listed above your daughter on a list simply because you think your daughter is a better player.

Undercutting a player’s abilities to challenge their comparative position on a list is fair game. Calling them a quitter is not.

Lastly, mom is wrong. She is intentionally conflating Jenner perhaps being out played for portions of games with her quitting in those games. Also saying she was “totally dominated” is flat out wrong.

I recall a certain member who used to frequent these boards, completely ripping two players, who were playing at the time, and may still be, to such a degree that both their fathers got involved to defend their daughters. There were plenty of negative and slanderous comments made at the time. I don’t recall reading anybody standing up for either of these young women, although I could be wrong. I remember standing up for one of them. My point being, there have been instances of making character criticisms about players here in the past. I may have to go back and research it but if memory serves, I don’t remember reading any protests coming from you when these other players were slandered as to their character—which is fine. But I don’t agree with you insulting momlax to defend Jenner. One does not justify the other; or as they say in other circles—two wrongs don’t make a right. I think people have the right to express their opinions on this public forum without being bullied or intimidated or insulted. Disagreeing with momlax and engaging in a civil debate with her is one thing, but what you’re doing is something else. That’s just my two cents.

[wlaxphan20]

Watch the games closely and you will see her quit in both the Maryland and ACC Notre Dame games on the circle when these critical games were on the line not when out of hand in the second half. One cannot simply look at the stats sheet.

I watched both games. It is complete and utter baloney to say that she quit. That’s a really serious (and false) accusation to make about a player, but I guess that’s your cup of tea.

There’s pretty obviously an agenda going on here. I’m going to try to figure out what it is.

Folks are entitled to their opinions which can sometimes be tainted or biased. So what. Doc has good reason to harbor ongoing resentment against a certain team for reasons known to him which he may or may not have shared with others. I don't blame him for an instant. He has every right to have that bias. I applaud him for it. After all, and I've said this multiple times, we're only talking about sports, and athletes playing sports. If momlax has an agenda against a certain player, and I'm neither confirming nor denying that she does, then so be it. She wouldn't be the first person on these boards who held a different opinion about a certain player. You should know that better than anyone, Bill.

Mom has now twice stated that Jenner “quit” as a fact, not an opinion. It would be bad enough if she were expressing this view as an opinion, but she has not qualified it as such and, indeed, has doubled down.

Short of accusing a player of cheating, saying someone quit is about as bad a thing as you can say about an athlete. Far, far worse than any opinion I have ever expressed about Charlotte North. I have never said she is a cheater or a quitter. Nor would I.

You should be able to see the difference.

I’m not trying to censor mom, but I am going to come down hard on her if this brand new poster keeps saying stuff that’s beyond the pale.

I suspect she is the parent of a current college player. Parents don’t sign up to post when their kid is in eighth grade or when their kid is out of college for five years. It seems clear to me that she has some type of agenda about Jenner. Maybe mom’s daughter was ranked below Jenner on the IL list and mom is not happy about that.

I have no problem with people having disagreements about the list. I do as well. People put way too much stock in lists of this nature. But it is an entirely different thing to call a player a quitter who is perhaps listed above your daughter on a list simply because you think your daughter is a better player.

Undercutting a player’s abilities to challenge their comparative position on a list is fair game. Calling them a quitter is not.

Lastly, mom is wrong. She is intentionally conflating Jenner perhaps being out played for portions of games with her quitting in those games. Also saying she was “totally dominated” is flat out wrong.

I recall a certain member who used to frequent these boards, completely ripping two players, who were playing at the time, and may still be, to such a degree that both their fathers got involved to defend their daughters. There were plenty of negative and slanderous comments made at the time. I don’t recall reading anybody standing up for either of these young women, although I could be wrong. I remember standing up for one of them. My point being, there have been instances of making character criticisms about players here in the past. I may have to go back and research it but if memory serves, I don’t remember reading any protests coming from you when these other players were slandered as to their character—which is fine. But I don’t agree with you insulting momlax to defend Jenner. One does not justify the other; or as they say in other circles—two wrongs don’t make a right. I think people have the right to express their opinions on this public forum without being bullied or intimidated or insulted. Disagreeing with momlax and engaging in a civil debate with her is one thing, but what you’re doing is something else. That’s just my two cents.

The biggest difference being, the poster you are referring to was being critical of actual play and not character, even though they were wrongly accused of doing so by the parents (and by you). And when asked, you weren’t even able to provide actual proof of the poster “slandering character”, just accusations. https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=380522#p380522

[njbill]

I recall a certain member who used to frequent these boards, completely ripping two players, who were playing at the time, and may still be, to such a degree that both their fathers got involved to defend their daughters. There were plenty of negative and slanderous comments made at the time. I don’t recall reading anybody standing up for either of these young women, although I could be wrong. I remember standing up for one of them. My point being, there have been instances of making character criticisms about players here in the past. I may have to go back and research it but if memory serves, I don’t remember reading any protests coming from you when these other players were slandered as to their character—which is fine. But I don’t agree with you insulting momlax to defend Jenner. One does not justify the other; or as they say in other circles—two wrongs don’t make a right. I think people have the right to express their opinions on this public forum without being bullied or intimidated or insulted. Disagreeing with momlax and engaging in a civil debate with her is one thing, but what you’re doing is something else. That’s just my two cents.

Ripping a player’s play on the field and calling her a quitter are two entirely different things. Maybe you don’t see the line there. I do. Some posters denigrate Jenner’s play. I don’t agree with those comments, but criticizing her play on the field is fair game.

I don’t recall any defamatory remarks about players’ character.

How about if I called North a quitter? How about if I said she quit in the 4th quarter of the NC game? Or how about if I said she is a cheater, that her strength comes from her use of performance enhancing drugs? I haven’t said those things and wouldn’t. I absolutely don’t believe North is a quitter or a cheater or that she uses PEDs. I’m simply writing that to illustrate a point. If I said those things about North, however, you and CO would flip your lids. You’d come down on me like a ton of bricks. And rightly so.

Don’t get tripped up about “opinion.” First, as I said, mom stated these things as facts; there was no qualifying “IMO.” But more importantly, it doesn’t much matter. You’d feel pretty much the same way if I said North is a cheater or a quitter as you would if I said in my opinion she’s a quitter or a cheater.

You don’t like me “insulting” mom? Fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Defend her as you are doing. Posters get insulted all the time on this board. You insult them. I insult them. You have insulted me. I have insulted you. It’s inherent in participating in an online forum. You have even reported my posts to admin. Just yesterday you reported one of my posts. I think that was below the belt. You don’t. C’est la vie.

I don’t like mom calling Jenner a quitter. Has anyone on this board ever called another player a "quitter"? Not that I recall. First and foremost, she has absolutely no basis for doing so. And she is dead wrong as anyone with two functioning eyes (even one) could see.

Do you think Jenner “quit” in those two games? Or was she just perhaps outplayed for portions of the games? The latter may be a fair comment. The former is dirty pool. I believe the comment was driven by the fact that IL ranked mom’s daughter below Jenner. Classic case of sour grapes. That's my opinion.

[DMac]

Yeah, the game has come a long way. I wasn’t watching when it was 11 on 11, but can you imagine trying to run an offense against 11 defenders? Also all 11 could crash the draw circle on the draw. Last year someone posted a gif from Braveheart, which had me laughing for days.

The first wlax game I saw was a brief experience. Was long before Tupperware sticks were even a thought and not too long after seeing mlax for the first time (had my very own stick about an hour after that experience...blew me away). The only thing I liked about the wlax experience was the skirts and hair, the game itself was more than I could take. Am still very thankful to the rules committee for the changes they made. It aint your grandma's lacrosse no more!!!

[Sunnylax]

Terribly said. Anybody who watches the game should know she does the draw and plays attack. She does not play defense. She is a Top 10 player with just her amazing draw skills. Anything you get on offense is a bonus.

Not on all if many coaches wish list.

You completely right. Very few coaches are going to want those 233 draw controls.

Most of which she got from playing Detroit mercy, Cleveland st and all of the other dominant lax programs that Duke plays. And with all of those draw controls, how exactly did they help duke? did they win anything? ACC's,. NCAA's ? against good times, she doesn't necessarily dominate and when pressured after she gathers a draw, often loses it or throws a bad pass. Let's just say it, she klutzy.

Complete and utter BS there. She averaged 11.65 dcg in the ACC the next highest was Meshewske at SU at 8.48 dcg. That is 3 chances per game more so score. But you are right.....those ACC teams are all crappy teams.

It is as simple as increased chances. That is it. You going to tell me that coaches would not want that? I will ask you to go out and show me one coach...1 that would not want a dominant draw player that on average gives them 3 more chances to score per game. In this entire conversation people conflate what was done and the chances to score. That is what a draw player give you...chances to score.

OH...btw, they did not play Detroit Mercy and Cleveland State does not even have a women's team.

No sh***t Cleveland St doesn't have a team. sarcasm, insert any cream puff school. looking up their schedule is not something I care to do but do know they play some low tier schools. I don't really give a hoot about her stats on draw because she does turn the ball over often and also trips over her feet often. And no, ACC schools aren't crappy, and I guarantee there are plenty of coaches that would have little interest in her.

We are not going to all agree but I think we will all agree that having to separate lists for the women and men is much better.

[wlaxphan20]

Terribly said. Anybody who watches the game should know she does the draw and plays attack. She does not play defense. She is a Top 10 player with just her amazing draw skills. Anything you get on offense is a bonus.

Not on all if many coaches wish list.

You completely right. Very few coaches are going to want those 233 draw controls.

Most of which she got from playing Detroit mercy, Cleveland st and all of the other dominant lax programs that Duke plays. And with all of those draw controls, how exactly did they help duke? did they win anything? ACC's,. NCAA's ? against good times, she doesn't necessarily dominate and when pressured after she gathers a draw, often loses it or throws a bad pass. Let's just say it, she klutzy.

Complete and utter BS there. She averaged 11.65 dcg in the ACC the next highest was Meshewske at SU at 8.48 dcg. That is 3 chances per game more so score. But you are right.....those ACC teams are all crappy teams.

It is as simple as increased chances. That is it. You going to tell me that coaches would not want that? I will ask you to go out and show me one coach...1 that would not want a dominant draw player that on average gives them 3 more chances to score per game. In this entire conversation people conflate what was done and the chances to score. That is what a draw player give you...chances to score.

OH...btw, they did not play Detroit Mercy and Cleveland State does not even have a women's team.

No sh***t Cleveland St doesn't have a team. sarcasm, insert any cream puff school. looking up their schedule is not something I care to do but do know they play some low tier schools. I don't really give a hoot about her stats on draw because she does turn the ball over often and also trips over her feet often. And no, ACC schools aren't crappy, and I guarantee there are plenty of coaches that would have little interest in her.

We are not going to all agree but I think we will all agree that having to separate lists for the women and men is much better.

IDK, 19 TOs on the season and 8 in-conference just doesn’t seem like “a lot” to me.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I recall a certain member who used to frequent these boards, completely ripping two players, who were playing at the time, and may still be, to such a degree that both their fathers got involved to defend their daughters. There were plenty of negative and slanderous comments made at the time. I don’t recall reading anybody standing up for either of these young women, although I could be wrong. I remember standing up for one of them. My point being, there have been instances of making character criticisms about players here in the past. I may have to go back and research it but if memory serves, I don’t remember reading any protests coming from you when these other players were slandered as to their character—which is fine. But I don’t agree with you insulting momlax to defend Jenner. One does not justify the other; or as they say in other circles—two wrongs don’t make a right. I think people have the right to express their opinions on this public forum without being bullied or intimidated or insulted. Disagreeing with momlax and engaging in a civil debate with her is one thing, but what you’re doing is something else. That’s just my two cents.

Ripping a player’s play on the field and calling her a quitter are two entirely different things. Maybe you don’t see the line there. I do. Some posters denigrate Jenner’s play. I don’t agree with those comments, but criticizing her play on the field is fair game.

I don’t recall any defamatory remarks about players’ character.

How about if I called North a quitter? How about if I said she quit in the 4th quarter of the NC game? Or how about if I said she is a cheater, that her strength comes from her use of performance enhancing drugs? I haven’t said those things and wouldn’t. I absolutely don’t believe North is a quitter or a cheater or that she uses PEDs. I’m simply writing that to illustrate a point. If I said those things about North, however, you and CO would flip your lids. You’d come down on me like a ton of bricks. And rightly so.

Don’t get tripped up about “opinion.” First, as I said, mom stated these things as facts; there was no qualifying “IMO.” But more importantly, it doesn’t much matter. You’d feel pretty much the same way if I said North is a cheater or a quitter as you would if I said in my opinion she’s a quitter or a cheater.

You don’t like me “insulting” mom? Fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Defend her as you are doing. Posters get insulted all the time on this board. You insult them. I insult them. You have insulted me. I have insulted you. It’s inherent in participating in an online forum. You have even reported my posts to admin. Just yesterday you reported one of my posts. I think that was below the belt. You don’t. C’est la vie.

I don’t like mom calling Jenner a quitter. Has anyone on this board ever called another player a "quitter"? Not that I recall. First and foremost, she has absolutely no basis for doing so. And she is dead wrong as anyone with two functioning eyes (even one) could see.

Do you think Jenner “quit” in those two games? Or was she just perhaps outplayed for portions of the games? The latter may be a fair comment. The former is dirty pool. I believe the comment was driven by the fact that IL ranked mom’s daughter below Jenner. Classic case of sour grapes. That's my opinion.

Addressing wlaxphan20 here as well:

The father of one of the players used the word “denigrate”. Whether that constitutes slander or insult or whatever—the player’s father used that word. The other player who was trashed was slandered. I’m not going to exhume that post just to prove my point.

Whatever the circumstances were, I don’t agree that people should be bullied or insulted because their opinion isn’t appreciated or is deemed slander or whatever. If they are and I read it—I will report it and let admin rule on what is insulting or deemed a personal attack.

[8meterPA]

I recall a certain member who used to frequent these boards, completely ripping two players, who were playing at the time, and may still be, to such a degree that both their fathers got involved to defend their daughters. There were plenty of negative and slanderous comments made at the time. I don’t recall reading anybody standing up for either of these young women, although I could be wrong. I remember standing up for one of them. My point being, there have been instances of making character criticisms about players here in the past. I may have to go back and research it but if memory serves, I don’t remember reading any protests coming from you when these other players were slandered as to their character—which is fine. But I don’t agree with you insulting momlax to defend Jenner. One does not justify the other; or as they say in other circles—two wrongs don’t make a right. I think people have the right to express their opinions on this public forum without being bullied or intimidated or insulted. Disagreeing with momlax and engaging in a civil debate with her is one thing, but what you’re doing is something else. That’s just my two cents.

Ripping a player’s play on the field and calling her a quitter are two entirely different things. Maybe you don’t see the line there. I do. Some posters denigrate Jenner’s play. I don’t agree with those comments, but criticizing her play on the field is fair game.

I don’t recall any defamatory remarks about players’ character.

How about if I called North a quitter? How about if I said she quit in the 4th quarter of the NC game? Or how about if I said she is a cheater, that her strength comes from her use of performance enhancing drugs? I haven’t said those things and wouldn’t. I absolutely don’t believe North is a quitter or a cheater or that she uses PEDs. I’m simply writing that to illustrate a point. If I said those things about North, however, you and CO would flip your lids. You’d come down on me like a ton of bricks. And rightly so.

Don’t get tripped up about “opinion.” First, as I said, mom stated these things as facts; there was no qualifying “IMO.” But more importantly, it doesn’t much matter. You’d feel pretty much the same way if I said North is a cheater or a quitter as you would if I said in my opinion she’s a quitter or a cheater.

You don’t like me “insulting” mom? Fine. You are entitled to your opinion. Defend her as you are doing. Posters get insulted all the time on this board. You insult them. I insult them. You have insulted me. I have insulted you. It’s inherent in participating in an online forum. You have even reported my posts to admin. Just yesterday you reported one of my posts. I think that was below the belt. You don’t. C’est la vie.

I don’t like mom calling Jenner a quitter. Has anyone on this board ever called another player a "quitter"? Not that I recall. First and foremost, she has absolutely no basis for doing so. And she is dead wrong as anyone with two functioning eyes (even one) could see.

Do you think Jenner “quit” in those two games? Or was she just perhaps outplayed for portions of the games? The latter may be a fair comment. The former is dirty pool. I believe the comment was driven by the fact that IL ranked mom’s daughter below Jenner. Classic case of sour grapes. That's my opinion.

Addressing wlaxphan20 here as well:

The father of one of the players used the word “denigrate”. Whether that constitutes slander or insult or whatever—the player’s father used that word. The other player who was trashed was slandered. I’m not going to exhume that post just to prove my point.

Whatever the circumstances were, I don’t agree that people should be bullied or insulted because their opinion isn’t appreciated or is deemed slander or whatever. If they are and I read it—I will report it and let admin rule on what is insulting or deemed a personal attack.

while you are chatting with Admin today with the daily snitching report, can you please also point out to them that you have violated your own agreed upon terms...you are only allowed to post on your own thread and no where else. You seem to have significantly violated those terms.

thank you.