2024

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a fan
Posts: 19643
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: 2024

Post by a fan »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:18 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:09 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:13 pm Might as well put this here:

https://morningconsult.com/2022/11/16/t ... y-popular/
... republiCONs sure can pick important issues. :lol: :lol: please, please don't throw me in that briar patch ...
The charts are interesting, though, don’t you think? The GOP has really shaped its constituency’s views to focus on a lot of things that are unrelated to their immediate or direct wellbeing.
Which means their reps will give them exactly what they ask for for the next 6 years: nothing.

As they and their families fall further behind. Pretty sad.
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: 2024

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

a fan wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:03 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:18 pm
jhu72 wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 3:09 pm
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 1:13 pm Might as well put this here:

https://morningconsult.com/2022/11/16/t ... y-popular/
... republiCONs sure can pick important issues. :lol: :lol: please, please don't throw me in that briar patch ...
The charts are interesting, though, don’t you think? The GOP has really shaped its constituency’s views to focus on a lot of things that are unrelated to their immediate or direct wellbeing.
Which means their reps will give them exactly what they ask for for the next 6 years: nothing.

As they and their families fall further behind. Pretty sad.
And remain disgruntled and grieved. Really sad. This is one of the results of the gerrymandering too. Representatives with their constituents in their mutual, carefully curated echo chambers. A cycle we will not break until we change House districting.

On the issue of legislative priorities, there is an article in the Times -- a video format, so UI cannot post it effectively, or I would -- about the coming crisis among public school teachers. Watch this one circle the toilet bowl due to inaction by Congress, and bad action by the States (see Florida). I'm really happy I grew up when I did, and pretty sad and disappointed about the world I am handing over to my kids, one of whom is a public school teacher.
a fan
Posts: 19643
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Re: 2024

Post by a fan »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 6:11 pm On the issue of legislative priorities, there is an article in the Times -- a video format, so UI cannot post it effectively, or I would -- about the coming crisis among public school teachers.
it's already here! The Great Resignation hit the States like Florida and Colorado who think that it makes sense to pay teachers the same wages that unskilled workers get....and hit them hard.

Shortages, big time. Then you add in all the stupid red tape (as if there wasn't enough already) that Pete and his pals want to add to keep kids from hearing about gays or slavery? Who the F wants to deal with that for $40k per year? You can, no joke, make more money bagging groceries without having to deal with all the Karens in the world.
Typical Lax Dad
Posts: 34207
Joined: Mon Jul 30, 2018 12:10 pm

Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:48 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:13 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:04 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:44 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:16 pm Kind of a silly question a Fan. Alot of these chuckleheads from both parties tell us they have a plan. To paraphrase Iron Mike Tyson all these plans go right in the crapper the first time the said politician gets punched in the mouth by the other party. The difference between having a plan and being able to implement that plan is a chasm as wide and long as the Grand Canyon. It seems like every party has a plan to fix the problem at the southern border. Also called immigration reform. How have all of those plans worked out over the decades?? IMO not very well.
Well, sure.

But every party and politician has a platform. Well, until Trump showed up, and the Republicans decided for the first time that they didn't need one.

Look at Bernie's platform. Detailed what he would do, and even included how he believed he'd pay for it. We all know there's NO WAY he'd implement even three of the things on his list, because it's about Congress.

But what few simple things do I get from Bernie? I could go on and on, but.....

1. He believes in more taxes
2. He believes in investing in our Veteran's care
3. If he had his way, we'd have A LOT more Government services, in exchange for higher taxes that slants heavily toward the top 20% earners
4. he's pro Green New Deal (whatever that means this week)
5. he's REALLY aggressive in what he wants changed in America
6. his policies CLEARLY slant toward helping the working class....the bottom 75% or so earners.
7. he makes ZERO mention of foreign policy or active military actions. He's ENTIRELY focused on domestic issues, and the working class

That's a pretty good baseline to start with in understanding if you're generally for or against this guy's ideas if he's elected. And no, he can't do any of this stuff alone. It's about Congress.

Meanwhile.....where is the conservative counterpart from Republicans? There isn't one. I don't see one word, other than platitudes, about how Republicans will help the American working class get ahead.

You know my stances on this stuff-----I'm a frustrated Modern Conservative who wants the Federal Republicans to stop worrying about silly cultural stuff that they can't control, and focus on getting our middle class back to the top of the heap, globally. My Colorado Republicans? They're doing a generally fine job of that....actually governing, and providing a counter to more liberal policies.

That's what I want....a middle, reasonable government that pays it's bills. Not much to ask for, imho.
I can't give you any explanations as to why the Republicans keep making the same mistakes over and over. I'm still befuddled trying to figure out the game plan the Democrats who run NYS are trying to achieve. I know it involves huge sums of money being handed out like gumdrops. Gov. Hochul and Sen. Schumer are talking about a 100 billion dollar plan to help finance a computer chip manufacturing plant outside of Syracuse. There are not alot of details about this plan but there is certainly boundless optimism coming from the people supporting the project. It's only 100 billion dollars.. what could possibly go wrong?? At least there is a plan.
When you are ignorant and don’t read, you miss stuff like this:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/04/mic ... plant.html

The company said that the $5.5 billion in incentives from the state of New York over the life of the project, alongside anticipated federal grants and tax credits from the CHIPS and Science Act, "are critical to support hiring and capital investment."

If $100 billion from NYS is to “help”, what do you estimate the total value of the project to be? What are the Principals putting in?

More stuff Pyle won’t read: https://www.enr.com/articles/54776-inte ... oject-wave

I'm ignorant enough to know the people of NYS have been conned with this chit before. You remember King Andy and his corrupt plan called the Buffalo Billions. Let me guess there TLD... This time it will be different. In the King Andy era it was about state of the art optical technology. This time it will be about manufacturing computer chips. I read and understand very well TLD. You apparently have NO CLUE how this game of billion dollar gambits is played out in NYS. It never works out the way it is advertised. I'm guessing you would have felt the same optimism about the Buffalo Billions. I'm guessing using your criteria I didn't understand that chitshow either? No worry for me because this time it will be different. Get back to me when the first chip rolls off the assembly line ... somewhere around 2090.
You said $100 billion dollars was coming from NYS because of Schumer and Hochul. $100 billion. You are ignorant and don't know what you are talking about. Go dig a hole or peel some potatoes Pyle.
“I wish you would!”
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cradleandshoot
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Re: 2024

Post by cradleandshoot »

Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:23 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:48 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:13 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:04 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:44 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:16 pm Kind of a silly question a Fan. Alot of these chuckleheads from both parties tell us they have a plan. To paraphrase Iron Mike Tyson all these plans go right in the crapper the first time the said politician gets punched in the mouth by the other party. The difference between having a plan and being able to implement that plan is a chasm as wide and long as the Grand Canyon. It seems like every party has a plan to fix the problem at the southern border. Also called immigration reform. How have all of those plans worked out over the decades?? IMO not very well.
Well, sure.

But every party and politician has a platform. Well, until Trump showed up, and the Republicans decided for the first time that they didn't need one.

Look at Bernie's platform. Detailed what he would do, and even included how he believed he'd pay for it. We all know there's NO WAY he'd implement even three of the things on his list, because it's about Congress.

But what few simple things do I get from Bernie? I could go on and on, but.....

1. He believes in more taxes
2. He believes in investing in our Veteran's care
3. If he had his way, we'd have A LOT more Government services, in exchange for higher taxes that slants heavily toward the top 20% earners
4. he's pro Green New Deal (whatever that means this week)
5. he's REALLY aggressive in what he wants changed in America
6. his policies CLEARLY slant toward helping the working class....the bottom 75% or so earners.
7. he makes ZERO mention of foreign policy or active military actions. He's ENTIRELY focused on domestic issues, and the working class

That's a pretty good baseline to start with in understanding if you're generally for or against this guy's ideas if he's elected. And no, he can't do any of this stuff alone. It's about Congress.

Meanwhile.....where is the conservative counterpart from Republicans? There isn't one. I don't see one word, other than platitudes, about how Republicans will help the American working class get ahead.

You know my stances on this stuff-----I'm a frustrated Modern Conservative who wants the Federal Republicans to stop worrying about silly cultural stuff that they can't control, and focus on getting our middle class back to the top of the heap, globally. My Colorado Republicans? They're doing a generally fine job of that....actually governing, and providing a counter to more liberal policies.

That's what I want....a middle, reasonable government that pays it's bills. Not much to ask for, imho.
I can't give you any explanations as to why the Republicans keep making the same mistakes over and over. I'm still befuddled trying to figure out the game plan the Democrats who run NYS are trying to achieve. I know it involves huge sums of money being handed out like gumdrops. Gov. Hochul and Sen. Schumer are talking about a 100 billion dollar plan to help finance a computer chip manufacturing plant outside of Syracuse. There are not alot of details about this plan but there is certainly boundless optimism coming from the people supporting the project. It's only 100 billion dollars.. what could possibly go wrong?? At least there is a plan.
When you are ignorant and don’t read, you miss stuff like this:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/04/mic ... plant.html

The company said that the $5.5 billion in incentives from the state of New York over the life of the project, alongside anticipated federal grants and tax credits from the CHIPS and Science Act, "are critical to support hiring and capital investment."

If $100 billion from NYS is to “help”, what do you estimate the total value of the project to be? What are the Principals putting in?

More stuff Pyle won’t read: https://www.enr.com/articles/54776-inte ... oject-wave

I'm ignorant enough to know the people of NYS have been conned with this chit before. You remember King Andy and his corrupt plan called the Buffalo Billions. Let me guess there TLD... This time it will be different. In the King Andy era it was about state of the art optical technology. This time it will be about manufacturing computer chips. I read and understand very well TLD. You apparently have NO CLUE how this game of billion dollar gambits is played out in NYS. It never works out the way it is advertised. I'm guessing you would have felt the same optimism about the Buffalo Billions. I'm guessing using your criteria I didn't understand that chitshow either? No worry for me because this time it will be different. Get back to me when the first chip rolls off the assembly line ... somewhere around 2090.
You said $100 billion dollars was coming from NYS because of Schumer and Hochul. $100 billion. You are ignorant and don't know what you are talking about. Go dig a hole or peel some potatoes Pyle.
Gomer Pyle was a US Marine. I was a paratrooper in the United States Army. Look up what the difference is between the Marines and the US Army. Do you know how long it has been since trainees in the military have ever had to peel a potato? If your going to use outdated analogies try and keep it real home boy...
We don't make mistakes, we have happy accidents.
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Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:51 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 7:23 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Fri Nov 18, 2022 5:48 pm
Typical Lax Dad wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:13 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 6:04 pm
a fan wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:44 pm
cradleandshoot wrote: Thu Nov 17, 2022 5:16 pm Kind of a silly question a Fan. Alot of these chuckleheads from both parties tell us they have a plan. To paraphrase Iron Mike Tyson all these plans go right in the crapper the first time the said politician gets punched in the mouth by the other party. The difference between having a plan and being able to implement that plan is a chasm as wide and long as the Grand Canyon. It seems like every party has a plan to fix the problem at the southern border. Also called immigration reform. How have all of those plans worked out over the decades?? IMO not very well.
Well, sure.

But every party and politician has a platform. Well, until Trump showed up, and the Republicans decided for the first time that they didn't need one.

Look at Bernie's platform. Detailed what he would do, and even included how he believed he'd pay for it. We all know there's NO WAY he'd implement even three of the things on his list, because it's about Congress.

But what few simple things do I get from Bernie? I could go on and on, but.....

1. He believes in more taxes
2. He believes in investing in our Veteran's care
3. If he had his way, we'd have A LOT more Government services, in exchange for higher taxes that slants heavily toward the top 20% earners
4. he's pro Green New Deal (whatever that means this week)
5. he's REALLY aggressive in what he wants changed in America
6. his policies CLEARLY slant toward helping the working class....the bottom 75% or so earners.
7. he makes ZERO mention of foreign policy or active military actions. He's ENTIRELY focused on domestic issues, and the working class

That's a pretty good baseline to start with in understanding if you're generally for or against this guy's ideas if he's elected. And no, he can't do any of this stuff alone. It's about Congress.

Meanwhile.....where is the conservative counterpart from Republicans? There isn't one. I don't see one word, other than platitudes, about how Republicans will help the American working class get ahead.

You know my stances on this stuff-----I'm a frustrated Modern Conservative who wants the Federal Republicans to stop worrying about silly cultural stuff that they can't control, and focus on getting our middle class back to the top of the heap, globally. My Colorado Republicans? They're doing a generally fine job of that....actually governing, and providing a counter to more liberal policies.

That's what I want....a middle, reasonable government that pays it's bills. Not much to ask for, imho.
I can't give you any explanations as to why the Republicans keep making the same mistakes over and over. I'm still befuddled trying to figure out the game plan the Democrats who run NYS are trying to achieve. I know it involves huge sums of money being handed out like gumdrops. Gov. Hochul and Sen. Schumer are talking about a 100 billion dollar plan to help finance a computer chip manufacturing plant outside of Syracuse. There are not alot of details about this plan but there is certainly boundless optimism coming from the people supporting the project. It's only 100 billion dollars.. what could possibly go wrong?? At least there is a plan.
When you are ignorant and don’t read, you miss stuff like this:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2022/10/04/mic ... plant.html

The company said that the $5.5 billion in incentives from the state of New York over the life of the project, alongside anticipated federal grants and tax credits from the CHIPS and Science Act, "are critical to support hiring and capital investment."

If $100 billion from NYS is to “help”, what do you estimate the total value of the project to be? What are the Principals putting in?

More stuff Pyle won’t read: https://www.enr.com/articles/54776-inte ... oject-wave

I'm ignorant enough to know the people of NYS have been conned with this chit before. You remember King Andy and his corrupt plan called the Buffalo Billions. Let me guess there TLD... This time it will be different. In the King Andy era it was about state of the art optical technology. This time it will be about manufacturing computer chips. I read and understand very well TLD. You apparently have NO CLUE how this game of billion dollar gambits is played out in NYS. It never works out the way it is advertised. I'm guessing you would have felt the same optimism about the Buffalo Billions. I'm guessing using your criteria I didn't understand that chitshow either? No worry for me because this time it will be different. Get back to me when the first chip rolls off the assembly line ... somewhere around 2090.
You said $100 billion dollars was coming from NYS because of Schumer and Hochul. $100 billion. You are ignorant and don't know what you are talking about. Go dig a hole or peel some potatoes Pyle.
Gomer Pyle was a US Marine. I was a paratrooper in the United States Army. Look up what the difference is between the Marines and the US Army. Do you know how long it has been since trainees in the military have ever had to peel a potato? If your going to use outdated analogies try and keep it real home boy...
Now you know what you are talking about…..home slice.
“I wish you would!”
elonmuskrockefeller
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:56 pm

Re: 2024

Post by elonmuskrockefeller »

The 2024 Senate battle has begun and the electoral map does not favor Democrats.

Democrats face an uphill battle to maintain their Senate majority in 2024.

While Democrats pulled off a better than expected night on Nov. 8th, the party will face tremendous headwinds in maintaining their razor-thin Senate majority come 2024. Democrats will be defending 23 of the 34 Senate seats up for grabs next cycle. Of their 23 seats up for election, seven are in states won by former President Donald Trump in either 2016 or 2020.

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/2024-s ... -democrats
njbill
Posts: 7516
Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2018 1:35 am

Re: 2024

Post by njbill »

Too early to predict about 2024.

If Manchin runs, he'll win. Seems incongruous given the ruby red nature of the state, but he's been winning state-wide races as a D since forever. If he doesn't run (and don't forget, he's a spring chicken by Senate standards), then the Rs take this seat.

Tester and Brown are very strong candidates and as incumbents will be favored.

Sinema is not a strong candidate who may get primaried by a stronger Dem. Notwithstanding the efforts of anti-democracy candidates like Kari Lake, AZ is trending blue. Dems have a good shot at holding this seat.

But, yes, the overall math is tough for Ds in the Senate 2024. But we're about to pick up no. 51 so we have a bit of a buffer. And remember, Kamala will still be the tie breaker, if necessary, from 2025 to 2027.
elonmuskrockefeller
Posts: 291
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2022 12:56 pm

Re: 2024

Post by elonmuskrockefeller »

njbill wrote: Mon Nov 21, 2022 8:24 pm Too early to predict about 2024.

If Manchin runs, he'll win. Seems incongruous given the ruby red nature of the state, but he's been winning state-wide races as a D since forever. If he doesn't run (and don't forget, he's a spring chicken by Senate standards), then the Rs take this seat.

Tester and Brown are very strong candidates and as incumbents will be favored.

Sinema is not a strong candidate who may get primaried by a stronger Dem. Notwithstanding the efforts of anti-democracy candidates like Kari Lake, AZ is trending blue. Dems have a good shot at holding this seat.

But, yes, the overall math is tough for Ds in the Senate 2024. But we're about to pick up no. 51 so we have a bit of a buffer. And remember, Kamala will still be the tie breaker, if necessary, from 2025 to 2027.



2024 Math is tough for D's but I agree that they have some easy winners, including Manchin, that the article doesn't really do justice for. Manchin will win WVa in a sleepwalk, assuming he wants to run...I don't think he wants any more of this DC nonsense.

Someone, think it was FFG, pointed out someone I skip past too easily, and he's right. Brian Kemp might be someone to keep an eye on. I'd agree he doesn't excite the anti-R vote like Desantis. And he won a tough state easily. I like the guy.
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HooDat
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Re: 2024

Post by HooDat »

a fan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:18 pm
elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am 'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.
Those are all moderate positions.

elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.
You're starting to troll again.....turn it down , or the deal's off.

Infrastructure. That was America first. So was the Chips act. What was the last pro-America bill...as in: this helps the working class...that the R's have passed?
afan - curious that you don't seem to think the Keystone pipeline and domestic oil and gas production count as infrastructure? They certainly create/support working class jobs. Or did I misunderstand your point?
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
a fan
Posts: 19643
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: 2024

Post by a fan »

HooDat wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:22 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:18 pm
elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am 'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.
Those are all moderate positions.

elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.
You're starting to troll again.....turn it down , or the deal's off.

Infrastructure. That was America first. So was the Chips act. What was the last pro-America bill...as in: this helps the working class...that the R's have passed?
afan - curious that you don't seem to think the Keystone pipeline and domestic oil and gas production count as infrastructure? They certainly create/support working class jobs. Or did I misunderstand your point?
Look at a map of the lines and proposed lines. We're talking about Keystone XL. XL is about getting Canadian oil to the Gulf for export. Has nothing to do with domestic anything. TC Energy...owner of the lines.... is a Canadian company.

If you'll recall, a Congressman challenged the Keystone exec on the stand, claiming XL was about American energy independence. Congressman said "great, sign a document guaranteeing that it will all stay in the US". The Keystone exec demurred, obviously. Smart Congressman, deflating BS claims.

That said, I had/have no problem with it being built. Although, as I've pointed out multiple times, if I were in charge of Keystone, I would have simply built the first pipeline (have a look for yourself) with space for a second line adjacent to the first. You already have the permits and right of way. And it would be done by now. XL is a short cut, that's it.
Typical Lax Dad
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Re: 2024

Post by Typical Lax Dad »

a fan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:35 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:22 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:18 pm
elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am 'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.
Those are all moderate positions.

elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.
You're starting to troll again.....turn it down , or the deal's off.

Infrastructure. That was America first. So was the Chips act. What was the last pro-America bill...as in: this helps the working class...that the R's have passed?
afan - curious that you don't seem to think the Keystone pipeline and domestic oil and gas production count as infrastructure? They certainly create/support working class jobs. Or did I misunderstand your point?
Look at a map of the lines and proposed lines. We're talking about Keystone XL. XL is about getting Canadian oil to the Gulf for export. Has nothing to do with domestic anything. TC Energy...owner of the lines.... is a Canadian company.

If you'll recall, a Congressman challenged the Keystone exec on the stand, claiming XL was about American energy independence. Congressman said "great, sign a document guaranteeing that it will all stay in the US". The Keystone exec demurred, obviously. Smart Congressman, deflating BS claims.

That said, I had/have no problem with it being built. Although, as I've pointed out multiple times, if I were in charge of Keystone, I would have simply built the first pipeline (have a look for yourself) with space for a second line adjacent to the first. You already have the permits and right of way. And it would be done by now. XL is a short cut, that's it.
Politicians telling folks why they need to be upset because the XL pipeline isn’t being built are relying on the populous not paying attention to facts.
“I wish you would!”
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HooDat
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Re: 2024

Post by HooDat »

a fan wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:35 pm
HooDat wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 12:22 pm
a fan wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:18 pm
elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am 'moderate to center right'? Kelly?


Voted 3x to ban fracking.

Voted 4x against Keystone XL pipeline.

97% lifetime rating from League of Conservation Voters (Green New Deal group).

Voted for Biden's entire inflationary agenda.

Voted with Biden 98% of the time.
Those are all moderate positions.

elonmuskrockefeller wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:38 am Like nearly every Democrat once in the Senate, they vote lockstep the America-last agenda.
You're starting to troll again.....turn it down , or the deal's off.

Infrastructure. That was America first. So was the Chips act. What was the last pro-America bill...as in: this helps the working class...that the R's have passed?
afan - curious that you don't seem to think the Keystone pipeline and domestic oil and gas production count as infrastructure? They certainly create/support working class jobs. Or did I misunderstand your point?
Look at a map of the lines and proposed lines. We're talking about Keystone XL. XL is about getting Canadian oil to the Gulf for export. Has nothing to do with domestic anything. TC Energy...owner of the lines.... is a Canadian company.

If you'll recall, a Congressman challenged the Keystone exec on the stand, claiming XL was about American energy independence. Congressman said "great, sign a document guaranteeing that it will all stay in the US". The Keystone exec demurred, obviously. Smart Congressman, deflating BS claims.

That said, I had/have no problem with it being built. Although, as I've pointed out multiple times, if I were in charge of Keystone, I would have simply built the first pipeline (have a look for yourself) with space for a second line adjacent to the first. You already have the permits and right of way. And it would be done by now. XL is a short cut, that's it.
Oil is a global commodity - it is going to go where ever in the world pays the highest net dollar. Of course the Keystone exec couldn't guarantee where a barrel of oil will stay in the US. That was pure theater on the part of the Congressman.

But the jobs: building and maintaining the pipeline, as well as manning the terminals and port facilities are real, high paying blue collar jobs. The US will also collect lots of nice taxes on the oil sales.
STILL somewhere back in the day....

...and waiting/hoping for a tinfoil hat emoji......
a fan
Posts: 19643
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:05 pm

Re: 2024

Post by a fan »

HooDat wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:00 pm Oil is a global commodity - it is going to go where ever in the world pays the highest net dollar. Of course the Keystone exec couldn't guarantee where a barrel of oil will stay in the US. That was pure theater on the part of the Congressman.
No, he was RESPONDING to the claim that XL would make it so we're self sufficient, and don't need to import oil. So called "energy independence".

Don't make those claims if you don't want to be called out for it. It's BS. I'd like nothing more than to not take a single drop of energy from the ME. Sign me up. That's not what these oil execs are about. They want money. Period.
HooDat wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:00 pm But the jobs: building and maintaining the pipeline, as well as manning the terminals and port facilities are real, high paying blue collar jobs. The US will also collect lots of nice taxes on the oil sales.
They'll collect SOME taxes. Not on the exports...and again that's what this entire project is about.

But lets keep the context of the conversation: Petey was claiming that shutting down XL was "lefty". Nope. PLENTY of fairly unreasonable environmentalists on the right and in the center. NIMBY crosses all political differences. :lol: ;)

Again: I'm all for the XL. Build away! But next time, run it adjacent to the old line.....saves millions on operational costs as well!
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: 2024

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

Interesting:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... districts/

"House Democrats are in need of a leader who can champion moderates in the party in battleground districts. Thankfully, they have Abigail Spanberger.

The Virginia Democrat won reelection in her swing seat in November — despite her district’s lines being redrawn and Republicans placing her high on their list of incumbents to target — by a stunning 4.6 points. That’s even greater than her nearly two-point margin of victory in 2020.

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Spanberger has been a vocal advocate for her colleagues in competitive seats who strain at times to differentiate themselves from more progressive national figures. So in the wake of the midterms, her caucus created a new post — battleground leadership representative — and promptly elected her to it.

Roll Call reports, “Only battleground Democrats — defined as caucus members who were on the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee’s Frontline and Red to Blue candidate lists at the end of the cycle — were allowed to run or vote in the election.” Spanberger won by a reported 33-20 vote margin over Rep. Matt Cartwright (D-Pa.).

Eight colleagues explained their support for her in a letter: “To make the intent of this new position a reality, we need a Representative who will unashamedly be the voice of Battlegrounders in the rooms where our agenda is steered and the conversations where strategic decisions are made.” They added that this representative must “understand the needs of our communities and make our message, a Democratic message, accessible to voters who may have never voted for a Democrat before” and “work collaboratively across the Caucus to build coalitions that advance democratic policies while ensuring we can be competitive — and win — in battleground seats across the country.”

Spanberger certainly fits that description. She has not been shy about chiding the caucus’s most left-wing members, castigating the “defund the police” tag line after her narrow win in 2020. And in the run-up to the midterms, she pushed hard against leadership for failing to put a bipartisan measure on the floor for a vote to ban individual stock ownership for members of Congress and their spouses. (That vote still hasn’t happened.)

In a written statement after her win, she vowed to use her “knowledge of the priorities of the Virginians I represent — and Americans across the country — to help the Democratic Caucus make informed decisions, get things done, and better serve Americans of all backgrounds and who hold a variety of viewpoints.”-

What might that look like? Ethics reform not only for Congress but also for the Supreme Court will likely rank high on her priorities. She will also likely favor a no-nonsense message on crime and immigration, support abortion rights and focus on bread-and-butter economic issues — a winning formula for Democrats in tough races.

Moderate Democrats — the ones who actually flipped seats and defended toss-up districts in the midterms — made a smart choice in choosing Spanberger, says Jim Kessler, executive vice president of the centrist Democratic think tank Third Way. “She is absolutely fearless, consistently wins tough races and is widely respected by her colleagues. She will not hesitate to be heard by Democratic House Leadership or the Caucus.” He adds, “In an environment where the majority rests on the fate of House moderates, it is essential that her voice by front and center in the Caucus.”

If Democrats manage to net about five wins in 2024, they would be back in the majority. That victory would run through districts where Democrats narrowly held on in 2022 and others where Republicans eked out wins but remain vulnerable. In both types of districts, Democrats who will be vying for those seats in 2024 will have to persuade some independents and Republicans to split their ballot.

Democrats might get an assist from MAGA incumbents who engage in obnoxious or destructive stunts, or a flawed GOP nominee. But Democrats will also need a positive message. On that, Spanberger is well-positioned to lend a hand."
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MDlaxfan76
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Re: 2024

Post by MDlaxfan76 »

That's a very good step for the Dems and she's certainly an impressive advocate.

Hope they listen to her. We'll all be better off (except for hard right-wing R's) if they do.

The ethics thing has been a huge miss and really ought to be an easy win...I'd squeeze it through now, make R's take a vote...but they probably won't. Pretty disgusting that they haven't.

My son has been saying for well over a year that the Dem agenda should be to pick each of the issues/policies that have 60+% national support, especially those issues which have 55+% support in battleground states/districts and hammer those.

That includes the obvious ones like Roe-level reproductive rights, marriage equality protection (including inter-racial!), smart-climate, smart-infrastructure, and also ones like ethics, starting with their own...

Stay away from issues/policies/slogans that don't get at least 50+% support.

But also find the positions in which that higher level of support in battlegrounds can be achieved in areas where R's have been focusing, eg. funding public safety, funding immigration reform and enforcement capacities, SCOTUS...reform/ethics...

Makes sense to me.

BTW, this is what I'd want the GOP to be doing if they had their heads remotely screwed on straight. Unfortunately, looks like that won't be the case in the MAGA dominated GOP House for the next 2 years.
Farfromgeneva
Posts: 23826
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Re: 2024

Post by Farfromgeneva »

Get paid

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party

Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation

Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET

”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”

The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.

Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
Now I love those cowboys, I love their gold
Love my uncle, God rest his soul
Taught me good, Lord, taught me all I know
Taught me so well, that I grabbed that gold
I left his dead ass there by the side of the road, yeah
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: 2024

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party

Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation

Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET

”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”

The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.

Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
Positioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.
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RedFromMI
Posts: 5079
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Re: 2024

Post by RedFromMI »

Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party

Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation

Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET

”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”

The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.

Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
Positioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.
It is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...
Seacoaster(1)
Posts: 5294
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2022 6:49 am

Re: 2024

Post by Seacoaster(1) »

RedFromMI wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:41 am
Seacoaster(1) wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:55 am
Farfromgeneva wrote: Fri Dec 09, 2022 7:35 am Get paid

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema Leaves Democratic Party

Lawmaker from Arizona had often disagreed with leadership on major legislation

Eliza CollinsDec. 9, 2022 7:00 am ET

”I have joined the growing numbers of Arizonans who reject party politics by declaring my independence from the broken partisan system in Washington,” she wrote in an opinion article in the Arizona Republic. “I registered as an Arizona independent.”

The news sent a jolt through Washington just days after Democrats won their 51st seat in the chamber after winning a special election in Georgia, and the move raised questions about whether she would continue to caucus with the party, like independents Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Angus King of Maine. Ms. Sinema had sometimes forced changes to major party policies, and had faced regular criticism from Democratic activists.

Ms. Sinema was elected to the Senate in 2018 after serving in the U.S. House of Representatives and in Arizona’s state legislature. She was the first Democrat to win the state in 30 years. But her stances on major Democratic priorities had raised the possibility of a primary challenger.
Positioning herself early for the reelection run. She would have been primaried by a Democrat, so she is staking out the "Independent" geography to avoid the fight and split the vote in the general. She only does strategic things aimed at herself.
It is doubtful she will win as an independent - she is roundly hated within D circles in AZ, and running as an independent will only lead to a three way race in which she has a good chance of finishing third...
I don't disagree. She has alienated most Democrats, and is not palatable to the AZ GOP (maybe the craziest State apparatus in the Country), and kind of stands for nothing in particular.

https://twitter.com/NateSilver538/statu ... 4895201281
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