NCAA reorg imminent

[44WeWantMore]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

When I worked in Columbia years ago, nobody at USC wanted Clemson in the SEC. I suppose money talks.

[Farfromgeneva]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

When I worked in Columbia years ago, nobody at USC wanted Clemson in the SEC. I suppose money talks.

Yeah I am wondering if all these states are going to let this happen to their state universities. Baylor never should’ve been in Big 8/12 instead of SMU but for politics (Kay Bailey Hutchinson went to Baylor .

[44WeWantMore]

Technically Clemson, like FSU, and even NCSU, are state universities, but all* the people that matter in Columbia, and even in Tallahassee (where I also worked) and Raleigh went to USC, UF, and UNC.

* Slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean.

[Farfromgeneva]

Technically Clemson, like FSU, and even NCSU, are state universities, but all* the people that matter in Columbia, and even in Tallahassee (where I also worked) and Raleigh went to USC, UF, and UNC.

* Slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean.

Columbia is a great town. Almost took the job as treasurer for a bank HQd on gervais across from the publix in the mill building and down from the Capitol. Folks don’t understand that even in SEC/ACC land how sneaky smoking hot the girls at USC are. When the bank was a client, I’d get there for meetings early and drop down at a Starbucks in the train depot and pretend to read emails while just stalking the smokeshow parade. (Bank now merged w a FL bank I’m close with but just gig would’ve been at risk in the merger so glad I didn’t take it and move the family)

Funny story I have two purple and Orange Hobart ties. I’ll wear them on some road trips for meetings and this CEO in Greenville always asks if it’s a Clemson tie. LIU yeah sure, I’m ride or die clemson! So you going to sign that engagement letter and tell Sandler ONeill to pound sand since I swallowed my vomit and told you this dope tie is a Clemson one”

[InsiderRoll]

Technically Clemson, like FSU, and even NCSU, are state universities, but all* the people that matter in Columbia, and even in Tallahassee (where I also worked) and Raleigh went to USC, UF, and UNC.

* Slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean.

Columbia is a great town. Almost took the job as treasurer for a bank HQd on gervais across from the publix in the mill building and down from the Capitol. Folks don’t understand that even in SEC/ACC land how sneaky smoking hot the girls at USC are. When the bank was a client, I’d get there for meetings early and drop down at a Starbucks in the train depot and pretend to read emails while just stalking the smokeshow parade. (Bank now merged w a FL bank I’m close with but just gig would’ve been at risk in the merger so glad I didn’t take it and move the family)

Funny story I have two purple and Orange Hobart ties. I’ll wear them on some road trips for meetings and this CEO in Greenville always asks if it’s a Clemson tie. LIU yeah sure, I’m ride or die clemson! So you going to sign that engagement letter and tell Sandler ONeill to pound sand since I swallowed my vomit and told you this dope tie is a Clemson one”

[Farfromgeneva]

Technically Clemson, like FSU, and even NCSU, are state universities, but all* the people that matter in Columbia, and even in Tallahassee (where I also worked) and Raleigh went to USC, UF, and UNC.

* Slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean.

Columbia is a great town. Almost took the job as treasurer for a bank HQd on gervais across from the publix in the mill building and down from the Capitol. Folks don’t understand that even in SEC/ACC land how sneaky smoking hot the girls at USC are. When the bank was a client, I’d get there for meetings early and drop down at a Starbucks in the train depot and pretend to read emails while just stalking the smokeshow parade. (Bank now merged w a FL bank I’m close with but just gig would’ve been at risk in the merger so glad I didn’t take it and move the family)

Funny story I have two purple and Orange Hobart ties. I’ll wear them on some road trips for meetings and this CEO in Greenville always asks if it’s a Clemson tie. LIU yeah sure, I’m ride or die clemson! So you going to sign that engagement letter and tell Sandler ONeill to pound sand since I swallowed my vomit and told you this dope tie is a Clemson one”

Oh I’m atop the dirtbag Interpol list globally! I’m not just some runny dunk domestic criminal when it comes to sleaze.

[wgdsr]

what do you think cj stroud and the penn state guy think of the new deals? we know what smith thinks... they get $$, he's out:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/n ... 841167001/

“Do we do more down the road? Possibly,” Smith said. “And that will be discussed, but not in the form of pay-for-play. Otherwise, I'm out.”

Smith, naturally, has a salary of $1.5 million per year. But giving $50k to each out of state player at O State one penny more than tuition, room, and board is a bridge too far Smith.

Boy, what a moral guy.

Said it before, and I'll say it again: if you want to be amateur, great. Sign me up, and apply the math to everyone involved.

This would mean that you cap pay for all Athletics Department employees at out of state room, board, and tuition.

How happy would Mr. Morals here be with a $50k per year salary to adhere to "amateur principles" that he's pretending to care about?

I have NO CLUE why kids at these schools aren't suing for wages after reading the Alston decision, and after seeing this epic TV deals.

it's really amazing. as this started to evolve... o'bannon, money manziel, so many others... my 1st thoughts were it'll eventually kill olympic sports. not great. not long after, i woke up one morning probably or was watching some idiot blather on and said... wait-a-minute...

on multiple school chat boards, tons of folks railing on nil and free no fault transfer rules. it's 70/30 unless a program is all in and winning the battles. no one will take these guys to task except judges.

[HowieT3]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

[Essexfenwick]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

[cltlax]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

[InsiderRoll]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

[youthathletics]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

ESPN can change that and may very well be picking that scab to get of of the deal...thus helping the ACC schools argue the GoR is invalid. I believe I read something along those lines a few months back. Trying to find it....

[wgdsr]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

regardless that your math is way off... it's for the schools' media rights at any new conference. the breakaway schools get nada, the acc gets it. the acc conference would also get to keep all of their share of the old contract.

so with new b1g/sec deals, the price just went up... for the acc schools in any breach, that is. any schools ditching out would get zippy no matter what.

[DocBarrister]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

Isn’t this the same rumor reported by various news sources in July?

DocBarrister

[DocBarrister]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

regardless that your math is way off... it's for the schools' media rights at any new conference. the breakaway schools get nada, the acc gets it. the acc conference would also get to keep all of their share of the old contract.

so with new b1g/sec deals, the price just went up... for the acc schools in any breach, that is. any schools ditching out would get zippy no matter what.

The ACC itself will need to break the most recent agreement. Just not enough money for the conference to remain a viable competitor to the SEC or Big Ten. Once the ACC opens to renegotiations, everything, including the GOR, will likely be on the table.

Not my opinion or prediction. This is straight from the ACC Commissioner, Jim Phillips:

Phillips said Wednesday the league continues to analyze pathways forward -- from expansion, partnerships with the Pac-12, or shifting to an imbalanced revenue distribution model that could provide more money to schools more invested in football.

"Everything is on the table," Phillips said. "We're looking at our TV contract. We're in engagement almost daily with our partners at ESPN. We've come together to have some discussions about what would be the next iteration for the ACC. It doesn't mean we're not going to make a move, but all options are on the table."

https://www.espn.com/college-football/s ... atform=amp

Should note that “imbalanced revenue distribution” could mean more money for football powers like FSU and Clemson and less money for schools like UVA or UNC.


DocBarrister

[wgdsr]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

regardless that your math is way off... it's for the schools' media rights at any new conference. the breakaway schools get nada, the acc gets it. the acc conference would also get to keep all of their share of the old contract.

so with new b1g/sec deals, the price just went up... for the acc schools in any breach, that is. any schools ditching out would get zippy no matter what.

The ACC itself will need to break the most recent agreement. Just not enough money for the conference to remain a viable competitor to the SEC or Big Ten. Once the ACC opens to renegotiations, everything, including the GOR, will likely be on the table.

DocBarrister

so they have 3 months? you said the acc would be done by year end. tick, tock.

ya know, not everybody is focused exclusively on $30-40 million when schools bring in 9 figures, not lower half 8.

and i thought they were just gonna let schools off the hook and go so they could look cool and maybe bring in tulane down the road? bold new strategy, cotton.

[InsiderRoll]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

regardless that your math is way off... it's for the schools' media rights at any new conference. the breakaway schools get nada, the acc gets it. the acc conference would also get to keep all of their share of the old contract.

so with new b1g/sec deals, the price just went up... for the acc schools in any breach, that is. any schools ditching out would get zippy no matter what.

I don’t think you have the full picture.

Let’s say Clemson leaves the ACC for SEC. The ACC can only retain rights to Clemson home games, or they can shelf the rights. But they’d be leaving money on the shelf. The SEC would still own the broadcast rights to Clemsons SEC road games, which adds value. Clemson would get a share of that revenue. The SEC is renegotiating their deal, and if ESPN wins that they’ll retain the rights of both leagues. They have as much power and influence in this as either league does. Even if the ACC can get 50% of Clemsons earnings after leaving plus the penalty, Clemson still makes out with more.

If you’ve been around any ACC coaches in any sport lately (lacrosse being a affluent exception), they are getting crushed recruiting. They simply don’t have the resources to keep up with the ACC and B1G money. It will force athletic departments from leagues like the PAC-12 and ACC to send every available dollar to football. They will consider dropping sports to do that. That is exactly the situation UCLA faced this summer.

Here’s the math:

The average ACC TV payout is 17million. The estimated SEC/B1G payout is 78million annually. It is not sustainable for the ACC to keep up. Clemson, UNC, UVA, and FSU are smart enough to know that if they wait 14 years, then they will be left behind forever. They will find a way or risk losing the ability to compete.

Then there’s NIL and it’s impact on recruiting. The average annual NIL earnings for an SEC athlete are $53,000. While the ACC average is $28,000. They are simply falling behind in recruiting and cannot afford to keep up. They will lose coaches and athletes rapidly if they can no longer provide resources at the rate the SEC can.

[DocBarrister]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

regardless that your math is way off... it's for the schools' media rights at any new conference. the breakaway schools get nada, the acc gets it. the acc conference would also get to keep all of their share of the old contract.

so with new b1g/sec deals, the price just went up... for the acc schools in any breach, that is. any schools ditching out would get zippy no matter what.

I don’t think you have the full picture.

Let’s say Clemson leaves the ACC for SEC. The ACC can only retain rights to Clemson home games, or they can shelf the rights. But they’d be leaving money on the shelf. The SEC would still own the broadcast rights to Clemsons SEC road games, which adds value. Clemson would get a share of that revenue. The SEC is renegotiating their deal, and if ESPN wins that they’ll retain the rights of both leagues. They have as much power and influence in this as either league does. Even if the ACC can get 50% of Clemsons earnings after leaving plus the penalty, Clemson still makes out with more.

If you’ve been around any ACC coaches in any sport lately (lacrosse being a affluent exception), they are getting crushed recruiting. They simply don’t have the resources to keep up with the ACC and B1G money. It will force athletic departments from leagues like the PAC-12 and ACC to send every available dollar to football. They will consider dropping sports to do that. That is exactly the situation UCLA faced this summer.

Here’s the math:

The average ACC TV payout is 17million. The estimated SEC/B1G payout is 78million annually. It is not sustainable for the ACC to keep up. Clemson, UNC, UVA, and FSU are smart enough to know that if they wait 14 years, then they will be left behind forever. They will find a way or risk losing the ability to compete.

Then there’s NIL and it’s impact on recruiting. The average annual NIL earnings for an SEC athlete are $53,000. While the ACC average is $28,000. They are simply falling behind in recruiting and cannot afford to keep up. They will lose coaches and athletes rapidly if they can no longer provide resources at the rate the SEC can.

He doesn’t have a clue.

ACC is working hard to stay competitive. I suspect they are continuing to explore all their options.

One thing ACC cannot do is stay put in their current media deal. As you note, ACC’s GOR makes things complicated, but it doesn’t necessarily preclude schools from leaving the ACC if the ACC cannot provide a better deal for the ACC football powers.

DocBarrister

[Essexfenwick]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

The GOR is 75 million exit fee and all media money share in the new conference goes to the ACC until 2036

[InsiderRoll]

Hearing some strong chatter from people inside ACC athletic departments that UVA, UNC, FSU and Clemson are likely heading to the SEC. If that does come about then then we could see ACC lacrosse fizzle out. Obviously they don’t have an AQ so it doesn’t really effect them but it would be sad to see the ACC no longer sponsor lacrosse.

If that does happen, it's not happening before the expiration of the ACC's Grant of Rights in 2036. In all the movements between conferences that have occurred, none were done before a particular Grant of Rights expired. No school or gaining conference has challenged the GoR concept in court, probably because their lawyers pretty much all told them they'd lose.

The ACC is sooooo screwed. Doesn’t say much about the intelligence of those institutions just making a wild deal in abject panic.

Sooooo screwed 14 years from now?

Actually the SEC would be writing them into their upcoming TV negotiations. These athletic departments are likely going to eat the $35million/year penalty for 14 years because the incoming revenue would still be 2x what they make now, even after the penalty. The ACC is on the verge of collapse, don’t expect a contract to hold up vs big money.

The GOR is 75 million exit fee and all media money share in the new conference goes to the ACC until 2036

The GOR only exists if the ESPN deal still exists. ESPN will likely retain SEC rights and can strengthen that deal by assisting in realignment. They can and likely will be persuaded to dissolve their deal with the ACC. The legal penalties they will face are drops in the bucket of what is to come from realignment.

And no they don’t get all of the media rights, only media rights for games they would’ve had the rights to. i.e. Clemson at Alabama football rights are owned by the SEC, they can payout Clemson legally for those games.