Athletes Unlimited 2022

[DMac]

My feed just went dark. Nothing.

Were you on it early enough to see who was picked first?

[njbill]

Feed is back.

They call this a snake draft. If they really wanted to snake somebody, one of the goalie captains would select Britt Reed and leave Sam Aluzzo with only back up goalies. But I guess there is a ladies agreement not to do that.

[njbill]

My feed just went dark. Nothing.

Were you on it early enough to see who was picked first?

You may have seen this by now, but see my post upthread. Ans. North.

My feed has gone in and out. Sometimes dark, sometimes fine, sometimes frozen, sometimes no audio. Ugh.

[DMac]

Looks like K. Wood is back?
That's good news for T Johansen if she's back at 100%.

[njbill]

They have an asterisk next to Wood's name. Don't know what that means.

[DMac]

My feed just went dark. Nothing.

Were you on it early enough to see who was picked first?

You may have seen this by now, but see my post upthread. Ans. North.

My feed has gone in and out. Sometimes dark, sometimes fine, sometimes frozen, sometimes no audio. Ugh.

Thanks, must be Glynn didn't want her shooting at her. We'll see how that works out.
Johansen have second pick?

[njbill]

Hopefully this shows all the picks. Glynn drafted first, then Johansen, then Apuzzo, then Moreno. Snake means Moreno drafted first in second round. Etc. etc.

https://auprosports.com/lacrosse/

[DMac]

Thanks. Glynn made Johansen very happy with that pick, I'd bet.
Very glad Trenchard and North are on opposing teams, that's a fun
match up to watch. We'll see if North comes up with anything new
v her this go round, Trenchard gave her all she wanted in their last
meeting. As I noted earlier, methinks Charolette is going to want to
move up on that leader's board in a big way in the last three games,
will be interesting to see how much team ball she plays v me ball.

[admin]

no personal attacks.

[Can Opener]

no personal attacks.

Thank you. I am grateful for the reminder. I did not appreciate being referred to today as a "Boston Burnout" or (earlier in this thread) a "Boston Brat" in response to substantive posts. I hope that this type of behavior can be curbed.

[Can Opener]

I’m back. You’re welcome.

I have not followed this league as closely as you have, but I have watched enough games to know that it is not accurate to say “then the ball goes to North who holds it for 15-20 seconds or so while she dodges back-and-forth trying to probe for an opening.” That is not a fair or accurate representation of her work. I took the time to go through Sunday’s game in detail, which I selected because it was admittedly not one of her best. (I couldn’t find Saturday’s game on ESPN.) You may be surprised to know that her touches worked out as follows:
* 34 touches
* 22 passes
* 9 shots (3 goals)
* 3 turnovers
She had 6 possessions of her 34 (18%) that exceeded 10 seconds. Those 6 possessions were of the following length in seconds: 15, 16, 11, 13, 11 & 16. Her average possession was 5.9 seconds and her average possession other than the 6 cited above was 4.2 seconds.

While we are correcting the record, it is also not accurate to say: “North's shot is relatively slowly developing with the crow hops and big windups.” Other than on a FPS, the very large majority of her shots do not involve crow hops. Happy to be educated otherwise if you can point me to video clips of her crow hops.

BTW, North currently leads the league in traditional points with 23 goals and 10 assists. She is second in the league in goals behind Gilbert who has 24 goals – although that excellent player has only 1 assist and no 2-pointers. North is third in the league in assists. She also leads the league with 5 2-point goals. Her shooting percentage is on par with the best offensive players in the league at 37%. If you factor in the effect of 2-pointers, which produced 28 “goals” (23 regular points + 5 extra points), her shooting percentage jumps to 45% which I am 90% certain is the best in the league if you apply the same math to others. Again, happy to be corrected if I am missing something.

Another drive-by post from the Can man. Once a month or so, when the moon is full. Now folks see why I had to take out that restraining order against you. I promise myself not to respond to each and every garbage post, but I give in from time to time, as now.

You seem obsessed with providing the “North can do no wrong” narrative. I’ll even out the picture. Yes, I have leveled some criticisms at North this AU season, but I have said a number of positive things about her which you conveniently ignore. But such is your way.

It’s a good thing you are a salesman and not a lawyer as your arguments are full of holes and have more bluster than Johnny Most. I actually am a lawyer. Not sure why this is a criticism. For starters, you are commenting on a different game than I was. I was primarily referring to the Saturday game; you the Sunday game. Apples and oranges. You have included as “possessions” simple touches where she is merely passing the ball around the horn. Those touches are irrelevant to the point I was making. I didn’t say North holds the ball for 15-20 secs every single time she touches it, but by your own “handiwork,” she held the ball for over ten seconds six times. So thanks for proving my point that she holds it way too long. As I mentioned, I don't have access to the Saturday film, but you seem to say that the Sunday film proves your point because CN held the ball for more than 10 seconds several times. If 10 seconds is the arbitrary standard of acceptable possession time for a talented dodger, she exceeded that limit by a sum total of 22 seconds in a 40-minute game. If the proposed standard is 7 seconds, then she held it for 40 seconds too long. Um, okaaaay. And? Dodging is part of the game of lacrosse. North is one of the best dodgers in AU. Dodging takes longer than passing or instantly shooting. Some folks may not like dodging, but it has propelled North to the leading point scorer in this league.

Plus you failed to compare her to other players, none of whom hold the ball anywhere nearly as long as North does. Of course, I know why you omitted that comparison. It’s because North holds the ball much longer than anyone else does. Sorry. I don't have time to chart every player on her team. But see above about dodging taking more time. That may not be an issue with no shot clock, but it is a big issue with a 60 sec clock.

North doesn’t crow hop? She doesn’t have big windups? Huh? No need for videos. I think we can take judicial notice. The best source of highlight goals is here: https://www.instagram.com/charlottenorth8/ I don't see any crow hops, but I may be missing something. Crow hopping is certainly not CN's go-to move.

Yes, she is near the top in goals and near the top in assists. Not surprising as she possesses the ball more and takes more shots than anyone else. I have commented that her feeding has improved this year, but you make no mention of that because it doesn’t fit your narrative.

I don’t know where you get your info on two point goals. I couldn’t find it. But your argument (which you assert with “90% certainty”) that a 45% shooting percentage would be the highest in the league is 100% wrong as five other players have shooting percentages higher than 45% without even factoring in two point goals.

You also fail to mention that she leads the league in shots and is second in shots missed. Her shooting percentage is poor under any measure. It is not poor by the standards of AU. Among the top 15 goal scorers in AU (those with 10 or more goals), the overall shooting percentage is 33.9%. North ranks above that average with 37.1%. Only Kent and Gilbert shoot above 40%. If you include everyone with 6 or more goals, the shooting percentage is also 33.9%. It's a different league with different talent and different rules from the NCAA. It's not a surprise that the results are different. To get a full picture of North's shooting effectiveness, you have to factor in the 2-point shot where she leads the league. Obviously, this creates an incentive to take lower likelihood shots from outside that are rewarded in the form of double points. Would you rather have a player who shoots 50% on 100 shots from inside the arc or 30% on 100 shots from outside the arc? I don't think I explained this idea very well in my original post. I was just trying to apply some math to say instead of using goals/shots, using points/shots can offer a different and possibly fuller picture. I don't have time to calculate the entire league, but if you just compare North to the top 15 goal scorers, she would have the top "adjusted" shooting percentage of 45%. Sorry -- just trying to make a nerdy stats point here. Not the worst in the league, but way down the list and certainly far worse than one would expect from a player some call The Great One.

And of course no mention that North is well down the list in DCs. We used to hear a lot from you about her draw collecting process. What happened? I’ll tell you. She was a good draw collector in college, but pretty pedestrian (at best) once she reached a higher level of competition. She had few, if any, DCs in the World Cup and has hardly any in AU. Why? Because the WC coaches and her AU teammates/coaches believe there are better centers to put on the draw.

I guess I am not surprised at your silence on her WC performance. To steal from Vince Lombardi, the gold medal game wasn’t everything. It was the only thing. It was the ONLY game that mattered in the WC. What did North do? She shot 2 for 9 (.222). Horrible. Treanor also had a bad shooting game, but had two assists. Had the US lost the game (something someone on this board who shall go unnamed said was unfathomable), it would have primarily been on North’s shoulders (secondarily on Treanor’s). North should thank her lucky stars that McCool (3 for 3), Cummings (2 for 2), and Apuzzo (3 second half goals) saved her bacon. We are discussing AU.

Oh, and all of that time you wasted a few months ago about that exhibition game – you were focusing on the wrong goal. The one I was referring to was when North failed to pass to an open teammate on the doorstep and instead dodged through and around about three defenders. Yes, she scored, but MY TAKE on the post goal celebration is that her teammates were chastising her for failing to make the pass. You, of course, claim that was a LIE. What is it with you Boston Burnouts? Do they not teach vocabulary up there? You don’t know the definition of “lie.” Your twin Beanie Boy doesn’t know the definition of “slander.” I have explained this in detail before. There was no chastising. The "open teammate on the doorstep" reacted to North's goal at 11:24 by thrusting her arms in the air and running straight to North to hug her. I make mistakes all the time. It's not that hard to admit them. The full thread is here: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=388022#p388022

I have said North is a good scorer. Best attacker currently in the game? No. Best in AU. No. Treanor and Apuzzo (AU) are clearly better attackers. I suspect even you would agree with that. North is in the second tier of active attackers with Scane, Gilbert, Ortega, and Ohlmiller; and maybe others depending on your views.

As I said in one of my posts, she gets too much hype for her level of ability. She is a top wlax player, but not the best or even at the tippy top. Indisputably, McCool, Cummings, Treanor, and Apuzzo are better players. I would add Mastroianni and Arsenault to the list, and probably a couple of defenders and a goalie, though some may disagree.

North is not at the Tiger Woods/Michael Jordan level, yet she gets that level of hype. Right now in AU, Apuzzo should be getting the most pub, not North. To the network’s credit, they have appreciably cut down on the North hysteria as the season has progressed.

North has three more games this weekend and then goes dark for an undetermined amount of time -- at least until next summer and maybe a lot longer if AU doesn’t survive. College is the premier showcase for wlax and next year there will be a new kid on the block. Maybe Scane, maybe Belle Smith, maybe someone else. Someone else will be the new big name. Talk will begin with fall ball. North won’t fade away entirely, but she won’t be the “face” of the sport next spring. That’s just the way it is and has always been.

Oh goodness. I posted a few stats and I get "garbage," "restraining order," "Boston Burnout," "salesman," "more bluster than Johnny Most," and "Beanie Boy" (whatever that means). As for the substance of the matter, I have better ways to spend my time than whacking all of the moles presented. A few key points are in red above.

[Bart]

IMO, she has not held the ball nearly as much as she had at BC but there are a heck of a lot more really really good players out there and she needs not carry the load. She seems to be seeing the field better and if that part of her game matures to the next level look out. I do not know what her BC coach preached to her regarding scoring and what not but what I see this summer is a player who is maturing into a more complete and complimentary attacker rather than a pure scorer(which she was/is really good at).

Now it is my turn to quibble with you about words. I would delete "nearly." I would also say that the 60 sec vs. 90 sec shot clock materially impacts the amount of time North can hold the ball in AU. Yes, her teammates are better in AU. Also less willing to allow someone younger and newer (a rookie as our Joe says) to dominate the ball.

I don't see that she is seeing the field any differently or really maturing, but if you do, I won't argue. As I have said, her feeding has improved. Maybe that is what you mean by "seeing the field" and "maturing." Yes, look out if she ever learns to, and does, feed when she has opportunities. In the 6x6 world of AU, when she is doubled or tripled, someone -- a very able scorer -- is open. She should be passing almost all the time when that happens instead of eating up clock trying to beat double teams when defenders can sit in shooting space.

Fair point. Can not disagree. Yes, what you speak of is what I see in her maturing. Maturation takes time.

I do not know what her college coaches has told her, what or how to style her game. Shoot first and pass later? It could be exactly what BC asked her to do but I am not in practice and no clue how they structured their offense. From 10,000 feet above it seems they structured it for her to go to the goal and score. Do I know that for certain? Nope but I would bet she was doing exactly what her coaching staff asked of her. Either way it worked.

[Bart]

Thanks. Glynn made Johansen very happy with that pick, I'd bet.
Very glad Trenchard and North are on opposing teams, that's a fun
match up to watch. We'll see if North comes up with anything new
v her this go round, Trenchard gave her all she wanted in their last
meeting. As I noted earlier, methinks Charolette is going to want to
move up on that leader's board in a big way in the last three games,
will be interesting to see how much team ball she plays v me ball.

I think this is the beauty of the point system, if there is any. If you look at the current leaders the top have very high win points and MVP points. You do not get a ton of those with pure me ball. Team does better....you get more points. I do not think an individual player can make up a ton of points in a weekend by purely playing me ball and scoring. Your team has to win to get the big points. I also would wonder how much MVP love a player would get if she were playing me ball.

I have enjoyed watching Trenchard play this summer. She had done a good job on everyone she has covered.

[njbill]

CO, what is irksome is that you think it’s OK to call me a liar (multiple times), a creep (multiple times), a hater, weird, and on and on, and to suggest I defame people like Joe McCarthy did. You believe those are appropriate things to say to a poster, that they comport with forum rules. Yet when I call you “Boston Burnout” (which seems much less inflammatory than what you have said), you think that runs afoul of FanLax rules and report my post to the administrator. That ain’t right. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. That is what I object to in your posts. But moving on.

You said some time ago you were sending out “sales” brochures or emails. I assumed you were a salesman.

My post was written on Saturday, following Saturday’s AU game. It obviously had nothing to do with Sunday’s game which was the following day. You chose to micro-investigate Sunday’s game. What you found supports the point I made about North holding the ball too long, which I think she does. You disagree. I think she shoots too much. You disagree. Her lengthy dodging contributes to the amount of time she holds the ball. That point seems irrefutable to me. But you seem to disagree.

Who has said they don’t “like” North’s dodging? Not me. Not anyone I can think of. I am simply saying it adds to the amount of time she holds the ball, which it indisputably does.

Whether or not you have the “time” to look at other players, it’s obvious North holds the ball a lot longer than anyone else does. That may not be of much consequence with no shot clock, but it can be significant with a 60 sec clock. You disagree?

You don’t see North taking crow hops? Huh? Not every shot, but frequently. How about her two pointers? Her FP shots? No crow hops? All I see is still photos on the Instagram link you posted. No videos. But then I don’t have the special access to her Instagram account that you seem to have.

37% is a bad shooting percentage. Period. End of story. Yes, others in the league are shooting poorly as well. If everyone in the class gets an F on a test, it’s OK if your kid does too?

My initial post was about Saturday’s AU game. It was directed to someone else. You then injected yourself. In my response to you, I added some comments beyond AU. If you don’t care to respond, that is your prerogative.

Again, you are focusing on the wrong goal from that exhibition game about two months ago. I don't know how many times I can tell you that.

[Sunnylax]

Thanks. Glynn made Johansen very happy with that pick, I'd bet.
Very glad Trenchard and North are on opposing teams, that's a fun
match up to watch. We'll see if North comes up with anything new
v her this go round, Trenchard gave her all she wanted in their last
meeting. As I noted earlier, methinks Charolette is going to want to
move up on that leader's board in a big way in the last three games,
will be interesting to see how much team ball she plays v me ball.

I think this is the beauty of the point system, if there is any. If you look at the current leaders the top have very high win points and MVP points. You do not get a ton of those with pure me ball. Team does better....you get more points. I do not think an individual player can make up a ton of points in a weekend by purely playing me ball and scoring. Your team has to win to get the big points. I also would wonder how much MVP love a player would get if she were playing me ball.

I have enjoyed watching Trenchard play this summer. She had done a good job on everyone she has covered.

Yes, agree that Trenchard takes on the best opposing attacker each week and gives all of them a difficult time.

[Can Opener]

I realize that this isn't the most exciting form of reader entertainment, but hey, it's the off season and there's not much else in the way of lacrosse banter right now. I have said this many times, so apologies for repeating myself, but it bears repetition. I have never said CN is the best college, USA or AU athlete of all time. I do not "drool" over her. The large majority of my posts are either defending her against unfair attacks or posting objective stats, accomplishments and video links. I do not understand the motivation of a seemingly bright man with deep knowledge of the sport to relentlessly post negative things about a young female athlete who is idolized by the next generation of women. That does not help to grow the game and honor the creators. More specifically, a few points and observations are below.

CO, what is irksome is that you think it’s OK to call me a liar (multiple times), a creep (multiple times), a hater, weird, and on and on, and to suggest I defame people like Joe McCarthy did. You believe those are appropriate things to say to a poster, that they comport with forum rules. Yet when I call you “Boston Burnout” (which seems much less inflammatory than what you have said), you think that runs afoul of FanLax rules and report my post to the administrator. That ain’t right. What’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. That is what I object to in your posts. But moving on.

You said some time ago you were sending out “sales” brochures or emails. I assumed you were a salesman.

My post was written on Saturday, following Saturday’s AU game. It obviously had nothing to do with Sunday’s game which was the following day. You chose to micro-investigate Sunday’s game. What you found supports the point I made about North holding the ball too long, which I think she does. You disagree. I think she shoots too much. You disagree. Her lengthy dodging contributes to the amount of time she holds the ball. That point seems irrefutable to me. But you seem to disagree. I think we agree that CN is a good dodger. I think we agree that dodging is an important part of the game. I think we agree that dodging takes more time to set up and execute than passing or quickly shooting. It seems we are debating a couple of seconds on a handful of possessions per game. You think she's messing up the offense; I think she's creating offense. We are not going to convince each other that 3-5 seconds in either direction proves our respective points.

Who has said they don’t “like” North’s dodging? Not me. Not anyone I can think of. I am simply saying it adds to the amount of time she holds the ball, which it indisputably does.

Whether or not you have the “time” to look at other players, it’s obvious North holds the ball a lot longer than anyone else does. That may not be of much consequence with no shot clock, but it can be significant with a 60 sec clock. You disagree?

You don’t see North taking crow hops? Huh? Not every shot, but frequently. How about her two pointers? Her FP shots? No crow hops? All I see is still photos on the Instagram link you posted. No videos. But then I don’t have the special access to her Instagram account that you seem to have. I do not have special access. The Instagram link (https://www.instagram.com/charlottenorth8/) is filled with videos of CN scoring without crow hops. If YouTube is more your thing, below are the only three CN highlight clips that I see on the AU YouTube account. None of them show crow hops.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxZBtF5Oos8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TahMs6O0IFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORsNHF7AQQ0
As I mentioned in my original post, she does crow hop in her FPS. We agree on that. I was originally responding to this statement you made on page 2 of this thread: "North's shot is relatively slowly developing with the crow hops and big windups. All a defender has to do is jump into shooting space as she is winding up." The vast majority of her non-FPS goals do not involve a crow hop. To imply otherwise is misleading. CN has flaws, but a habitual reliance on crow hops is not one of them.

37% is a bad shooting percentage. Period. End of story. Yes, others in the league are shooting poorly as well. If everyone in the class gets an F on a test, it’s OK if your kid does too? If a teacher gives 6th graders a calculus test and my child gets 10% of the answers correct, I would be thrilled. You can say over and over that 37% is bad, but for that to be true it has to be bad relative to some standard. By NCAA standards, yes, 37% is not impressive. Because AU has no SS, no 3 seconds, a 2-point line, and MUCH looser foul calls on defense, it is not surprising that shooting productivity is down. In 2021, the league shot 37.1%. Apuzzo, Treanor and Cummings all shot below 40%. This year the league is shooting 32.7%. Apuzzo, whose game I love, is shooting 30%. Rather than criticize her, you said on Sunday: "Sam Apuzzo is playing the best lacrosse in this league this summer."

My initial post was about Saturday’s AU game. It was directed to someone else. You then injected yourself. In my response to you, I added some comments beyond AU. If you don’t care to respond, that is your prerogative.

Again, you are focusing on the wrong goal from that exhibition game about two months ago. I don't know how many times I can tell you that. I have now posted multiple times explaining that none of her three goals drew a reprimand from her teammates. Pick any goal you'd like. Details are here: https://fanlax.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=388022#p388022

[DMac]

Game day reminder, first one at 1730 hrs on the U.
Team Apuzzo v Team Johansen.

Second one on the Deuce at 2000 hrs.
Team Moreno v Team Glynn
(Trenchard v North)

[DMac]

Damn, looking very intense to start the final three games, girls mean business.
Waters with two good saves, one on Sam A, the other on Gilbert. Sam A then
hits Griffin for a goal. Now Apuzzo buries one. 2-0 Apuzzo.

[DMac]

O'Donnell, nice feed from Cordingley while cutting to the cage.
3-0 end of 1. Waters keeping T Johanson in the game, T Apuzzo
looking pretty unbeatable in Q 1. Apuzzo might be looking a
little more Malinoi-ish today than GSD-ish.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buX-RaEG3YA

[DMac]

Didn't take Aldave long to score after she hit the field for her pro debut.
Typical Aldave, hit in front of the cage as the shot clock is near zero,
quick stick goal. 4-0.
T Apuzzo making T Johansen work their tails off to get a shot off,
when they do they're 0-10.