***********The MIAA "A" Conference 2023**************

[Jumbo]

Hearing McD has 2 GP SR committed transfers.
BL has another SR committed transfer from GA.
And those are just the ones people are talking about.

And someone was trying to claim they don’t recruit.

[kramerica.inc]

I know, right?!



The league doesnt allow recruiting. But the big schools all have a coach affiliated with a specific middle school club lax program, a network of alums and assistant coaches at OTHER club programs, they encourage the best players from those teams to attend their high school, the coaches tour prospective parents, call them frequently, take them to dinner, answer questions about financial aid, and walk them through the application process. But they aren't "recruiting." They are just very helpful, is all. And it is just a coincidence that EVERY lacrosse team has an assistant coach who also works in the admissions office, so they can have access to and legally talk about transcripts/financial aid with parents or families interested in their lacrosse program.

But I will say it again. The MIAA does not really allow recruiting.

[MDlaxfan76]

I know, right?!



The league doesnt allow recruiting. But the big schools all have a coach affiliated with a specific middle school club lax program, a network of alums and assistant coaches at OTHER club programs, they encourage the best players from those teams to attend their high school, the coaches tour prospective parents, call them frequently, take them to dinner, answer questions about financial aid, and walk them through the application process. But they aren't "recruiting." They are just very helpful, is all. And it is just a coincidence that EVERY lacrosse team has an assistant coach who also works in the admissions office, so they can have access to and legally talk about transcripts/financial aid with parents or families interested in their lacrosse program.

But I will say it again. The MIAA does not really allow recruiting.

Boy, this is a long time discussion; makes for great off-season fodder...perhaps time for someone to post the MIAA's supposed rules again?

I found only this for "documents" https://miaasports.net/miaa-documents-2/

anyone have the "rules"?

[Terps22]

Your alma mater, mainly Biff Poggi, took the recruiting arms ace in the MIAA to a whole new level.

Gilman's admin turned a blind eye to Poggi for well over a decade as he bankrolled his football teams (no need to open up this can of worms). Naturally, this had a trickle-down effect, and other league schools began to put an emphasis on recruiting in other sports (lacrosse)

The reality is, that programs ebb and flow. A coaching staff comes and goes. When you step back and look across the "A" division in the modern era of the sport (let's say the past 6 years) and see which programs have routinely had a ton of team success won an MIAA title, made it to the MIAA finals, make it into the MIAA playoffs routinely) these programs really have one thing in common: exceptional coaching staffs. BL, McDonogh, Calvert Hall, and Saint Mary's have been routinely towards the top of the league.

Fast forward to today, it's clear that some school administrations and BOTs are more committed to athletic excellence than their peer schools and maybe a new arms race is set to begin.

[MDlaxfan76]

Your alma mater, mainly Biff Poggi, took the recruiting arms ace in the MIAA to a whole new level.

Gilman's admin turned a blind eye to Poggi for well over a decade as he bankrolled his football teams (no need to open up this can of worms). Naturally, this had a trickle-down effect, and other league schools began to put an emphasis on recruiting in other sports (lacrosse)

The reality is, that programs ebb and flow. A coaching staff comes and goes. When you step back and look across the "A" division in the modern era of the sport (let's say the past 6 years) and see which programs have routinely had a ton of team success won an MIAA title, made it to the MIAA finals, make it into the MIAA playoffs routinely) these programs really have one thing in common: exceptional coaching staffs. BL, McDonogh, Calvert Hall, and Saint Mary's have been routinely towards the top of the league.

Fast forward to today, it's clear that some school administrations and BOTs are more committed to athletic excellence than their peer schools and maybe a new arms race is set to begin.

No argument at all about Poggi and those excesses. Long time participants at LP and FL will recall my views on that topic!
But I don't think those excesses were remotely the trigger for others to do so.
That was already happening, and had been happening for years, including in our sport.
But he did push it extremely hard.

And Gilman ultimately pushed Poggi out as that program's excesses expanded beyond alumni/Admin support. Have we seen any other schools push out a highly winning coach and his staff? (McDonogh girls lax..., any other good examples?)

I did chuckle at the "modern era" being defined by last 6 years, whereas I quite agree that "programs ebb and flow". They do. Part of why I'd expect Gilman and Loyola and St. Paul's to return to the top ranks in lacrosse in due course.

Rather than chuckle though, I do cringe a bit at "athletic excellence" being the verbiage when what is really meant is winning championships, national top recognition. Same language was used to describe Gilman's football program, no height too high when seeking "excellence"...school with total HS boys less than 800 in top 15 nationally...at a premier academic school, not a "sports-first" academy.

But is it truly "excellence" that is being achieved through coaching? Or is it the sheer # of higher end athletes?

Under Poggi, there was certainly good coaching, heck sometimes 20 coaches listed...!
But the success, IMO, was because of the sheer # of high level recruits.

Not that Gilman hadn't always recruited/attracted athletes who saw the school as an academic and socio-economic opportunity, but that the goal had explicitly shifted from getting to a selective college opportunity and career to getting to a top football school and potentially NFL ...and the sheer # of such recruited.

Not taking anything away from any coaching staff's capabilities to actually "coach", I think the reality is that some schools have committed to winning through more total talent, and some have taken less aggressive approaches. Recruiting is the #1 path being taken, rather than relying on natural affinity to a particular school, family ties, academic fit, etc. from within the school's local community. Much more aggressive, and from a much wider ranging area.

The question I had was whether the MIAA has any actual rules or even 'principles' any more or have the schools abandoned any pretense of regulation?

[kramerica.inc]

Still depends on the school.
Seeing a lot of different approaches in the league right now. You can put almost every team in the conference squarely in one of these categories:

Out of town boarders (from around the country)
Playing keep-away from the competition
One-year rentals
Recruiting nonstop early via middle school
Local talent lockdown
Regional big-spending
Coaching well, what you get

The top programs are doing at least a couple of these things.

[get it to x]

Still depends on the school.
Seeing a lot of different approaches in the league right now. You can put almost every team in the conference squarely in one of these categories:

Out of town boarders (from around the country)
Playing keep-away from the competition
One-year rentals
Recruiting nonstop early via middle school
Local talent lockdown
Regional big-spending
Coaching well, what you get

The top programs are doing at least a couple of these things.

Not sure there is a way to do a "local talent lockdown", although St. Mary's had it for a while in Anne Arundel. The proximity of the Baltimore schools makes it tough. I think the club pipeline is as important as anything, especially if the coaching philosophy is consistent at each level.

[kramerica.inc]

I have a 24 and 28. And the local lockdowns are definitely happening North and South of Baltimore. The landscape has changed in just a few short years between my kids.

The Baltimore schools no longer are getting that slow trickle of kids from neighboring counties with Sev, Spal and JC really improving and investing in their programs.

Those teams seem to be doing a good job developing kids and local families have taken notice.

I think it’s just another factor driving the large programs to go outside the region and maybe get those big name 1 year rentals. If you have the resources like McD and BL, can you blame them?

[Slim]

Whether the resources or not, it still stinks for kids already in the pipeline and farm system at a school like CHC, BL & McD to get bumped by short-term hired guns. That homegrown factor was the beauty of the league for so long, however I understand changing tides...

I guess these schools are supporting the claim that Baltimore/Annapolis is not the hotbed area it once was, and the high school game is becoming less regional. These schools have followed some club models in recent times.

[kramerica.inc]

There is still lots of homegrown flavor in the league, it's just happening at different schools now. It's really only a few schools that are bringing in outside help.

Yes, it stinks for those kids already in the pipeline, but these are often the same parents/kids that chose the school because they wanted to "play for the best."

They got their wish.

It just didn't end the way they hoped and include their sons in the box score.

[Turnandrake]

Whether the resources or not, it still stinks for kids already in the pipeline and farm system at a school like CHC, BL & McD to get bumped by short-term hired guns. That homegrown factor was the beauty of the league for so long, however I understand changing tides...

I guess these schools are supporting the claim that Baltimore/Annapolis is not the hotbed area it once was, and the high school game is becoming less regional. These schools have followed some club models in recent times.

When the local big donors stop giving to schools cause outside kids are playing and their kids are not. things will change back.

[MDlaxfan76]

I have a 24 and 28. And the local lockdowns are definitely happening North and South of Baltimore. The landscape has changed in just a few short years between my kids.

The Baltimore schools no longer are getting that slow trickle of kids from neighboring counties with Sev, Spal and JC really improving and investing in their programs.

Those teams seem to be doing a good job developing kids and local families have taken notice.

I think it’s just another factor driving the large programs to go outside the region and maybe get those big name 1 year rentals. If you have the resources like McD and BL, can you blame them?

What do you mean by "local lockdowns"..simply that kids who have options to go to their local program typically choose to do so if that program (and school) is sufficiently competitive?

And yeah, I don't think the league philosophy (at least as it used to be) was about "one year rentals". Nor PG's.

[kramerica.inc]

I have a 24 and 28. And the local lockdowns are definitely happening North and South of Baltimore. The landscape has changed in just a few short years between my kids.

The Baltimore schools no longer are getting that slow trickle of kids from neighboring counties with Sev, Spal and JC really improving and investing in their programs.

Those teams seem to be doing a good job developing kids and local families have taken notice.

I think it’s just another factor driving the large programs to go outside the region and maybe get those big name 1 year rentals. If you have the resources like McD and BL, can you blame them?

What do you mean by "local lockdowns"..simply that kids who have options to go to their local program typically choose to do so if that program (and school) is sufficiently competitive?

And yeah, I don't think the league philosophy (at least as it used to be) was about "one year rentals". Nor PG's.

I mean there were always a number of quality AA and Harford Co kids headed to Baltimore County schools. There are much less of those kids today. With Severn, AS and JC all upping their lax programs, those kids aren't leaving their counties any more.
One year rentals were never really used in the MIAA. And the league rules don't really allow PGs due to age. But we are living in a world where the transfer portal mentality is en vogue. So now we are seeing high profile, committed HS seniors from non hotbed areas wanting to test the meddle in the MIAA for their senior year.

[MDlaxfan76]

I have a 24 and 28. And the local lockdowns are definitely happening North and South of Baltimore. The landscape has changed in just a few short years between my kids.

The Baltimore schools no longer are getting that slow trickle of kids from neighboring counties with Sev, Spal and JC really improving and investing in their programs.

Those teams seem to be doing a good job developing kids and local families have taken notice.

I think it’s just another factor driving the large programs to go outside the region and maybe get those big name 1 year rentals. If you have the resources like McD and BL, can you blame them?

What do you mean by "local lockdowns"..simply that kids who have options to go to their local program typically choose to do so if that program (and school) is sufficiently competitive?

And yeah, I don't think the league philosophy (at least as it used to be) was about "one year rentals". Nor PG's.

I mean there were always a number of quality AA and Harford Co kids headed to Baltimore County schools. There are much less of those kids today. With Severn, AS and JC all upping their lax programs, those kids aren't leaving their counties any more.
One year rentals were never really used in the MIAA. And the league rules don't really allow PGs due to age. But we are living in a world where the transfer portal mentality is en vogue. So now we are seeing high profile, committed HS seniors from non hotbed areas wanting to test the meddle in the MIAA for their senior year.

Personally, I applaud the notion that kids are finding great schools and lax programs to play for without having to travel far. If that's truly happening more than previously in AA and Harford county, great. But I think there may simply be more total kids. I don't recall many, perhaps not more than a couple per year, who made an impact by traveling such distances to play for north Baltimore schools. (I just didn't understand the term "lockdown" as it seems to me that a few kids may still travel, certainly could.)

Same philosophy re one year transfers, whether boarding at the school or with a coach, etc. Don't like it. It's not necessary for kids to achieve their college ambitions, and the kids who have developed together of years with the expectation of playing as a team for their high school, don't get the same culminating HS experience.

Re PG's, "against the rules", but who is actually enforcing rules these days? what rules?

[kramerica.inc]

There are certainly more kids total. But the kids who were travelling were often making an impact. Those kids seem to be sticking local. And at least a handful this year were good enough to be multi-year starters and/or all conference performers in the league. That bodes well for Severn and others.

It seems like now, the less impactful kids are travelling, looking for specific opportunities.

The league does have and enforce rules with regard to age, transfer elgibility etc. But it's really only as good as the self-reported forms and the people reading the forms/enforcing the rules. The league will investigate if it gets a complaint.

[Terps22]

wait so some of the MIAA members are testing the waters with PG players?

what a joke if that is the case, all for what?

[MDlaxfan76]

wait so some of the MIAA members are testing the waters with PG players?

what a joke if that is the case, all for what?

I wasn't claiming that to be the case(yet), but rather was speculating about where the line is (where are the rules?) when we know there are kids coming into schools for one last year of HS ball, already committed to college. Have they only played 3 years of HS ball? any 4 year players???

My issue is that there's so little transparency around all this, and it seems that the ethos is supporting more and more aggressive recruiting.

PS, Kram's more tuned into all this than I am, certainly the Harford county etc elements as well.

[kramerica.inc]

There aren't PGs in the conference, yet. I say yet because the line keeps getting pushed. And some of these schools are really desperate to win.

I'm more disappointed with the schools, many of which used to be fine academic institutions, allowing the lacrosse tail to wag the dog.

There used to be the occasional holdback, mostly at one school. But it was usually because of documented academic or behavior/maturity problems. Now there are holdbacks everywhere. Lots of them. It's everywhere. But incredibly rampant at schools that have a middle school component. Often required for kids coming from any public school. Student unseen.

There used to be just one school in conference that had boarding students. But it was only because they have a unique academic model. Now half the conference schools have boarders, dorms, or host student/athletes from around the region/nation.

Good for the 3-4 schools who are still mostly committed to doing things above board, the right way. Mostly.

[MDlaxfan76]

I agree 100% with your sentiments, Kram.

And yes, there's a spectrum of complicity...which means all are under pressure to do more...and more...

It's a great example of why regulation is needed.

Gets back to my questions: where and what are the rules?
Who enforces, if anyone?

I haven't been able to find them on the web, though I recall being able to do so perhaps a decade ago...

[Turnandrake]

The league is what it is. Best in the country loaded with D1 commits all over the field. Holdbacks Boarders transfers all makes for high level lacrosse. Think any kid that plays in this league will have a head start at the next level compared to most.