Big Ten 2019

[Cooter]

22-7 on the year after Marylands loss to notre dame. Losses to Loyola x2, towson, drexel, yale, notre dame, army.
Despite todays loss, I'd feel the best right now if I were a terp fan followed by penn state especially if they can beat cornell and then maybe hopkins. Everyone else has a lot of work to do w 5/6 teams having key ooc games next weekend and despite OSUs high ranking theres two tiers right now when you look at who they've beaten.

maryland albany 3/9 nova 3/16 unc 3/23 qw thus far colgate, richmond, navy
penn state cornell 3/8 qw-villanova
hopkins cuse 3/9 uva 3/23 quality wins thus far-princeton, unc

Ohio State denver 3/16, ND 3/23. Quality wins thus far-none
Rutgers-princeton 3/9 syracuse 3/16 quality wins thus far-none
michigan yale 3/10 notre dame 3/19 qw thus far-none

It seems a little early to be assess who is a quality win or not. None of the Big Ten's wins are over teams that I would expect to be in the top 10. I find it a little peculiar that you assume Princeton (1-2) is a quality win for JHU, while St.John's (2-2) with a win over High Point is not a quality win for Michigan. Boston U, who OSU beat, is actually (5-1). Despite, being 0-3 Penn might make the top 20 RPIs due to their tough schedule.

So in the end, I don't see your two tiers, and If I did Ohio State at 5-0 would be in the top 1 and JHU would be in the 2nd one.

[Lax1887]

22-7 on the year after Marylands loss to notre dame. Losses to Loyola x2, towson, drexel, yale, notre dame, army.
Despite todays loss, I'd feel the best right now if I were a terp fan followed by penn state especially if they can beat cornell and then maybe hopkins. Everyone else has a lot of work to do w 5/6 teams having key ooc games next weekend and despite OSUs high ranking theres two tiers right now when you look at who they've beaten.

maryland albany 3/9 nova 3/16 unc 3/23 qw thus far colgate, richmond, navy
penn state cornell 3/8 qw-villanova
hopkins cuse 3/9 uva 3/23 quality wins thus far-princeton, unc

Ohio State denver 3/16, ND 3/23. Quality wins thus far-none
Rutgers-princeton 3/9 syracuse 3/16 quality wins thus far-none
michigan yale 3/10 notre dame 3/19 qw thus far-none

It seems a little early to be assess who is a quality win or not. None of the Big Ten's wins are over teams that I would expect to be in the top 10. I find it a little peculiar that you assume Princeton (1-2) is a quality win for JHU, while St.John's (2-2) with a win over High Point is not a quality win for Michigan. Boston U, who OSU beat, is actually (5-1). Despite, being 0-3 Penn might make the top 20 RPIs due to their tough schedule.

So in the end, I don't see your two tiers, and If I did Ohio State at 5-0 would be in the top 1 and JHU would be in the 2nd one.

Rutgers also defeated St. John's whose only 2 losses are to Rutgers & Michigan. I don't see two Big Ten tiers either with Penn State coming back to earth losing to Yale and beating Penn by one. Maryland's one goal wins over Richmond and Penn show they're not beyond the reach of anyone else in the conference. Although I think Rutgers will struggle if their play maker and top scorer, Mullins, doesn't come.

[Cooter]

Rutgers seems to play decidedly better at home. I think they have dug themselves a little hole, losing home games to Army and Loyola, even though Army and Loyola are good teams. Rutgers plays Syracuse on the road and 3 of 5 Big Ten games on the road (JHU, PSU, OSU). If Rutgers makes the cut for the Big Ten tmt, then they get that at home.

[jimmywork]

Very quiet from this board. A lot of chest thumping early in the season about the conference being head and shoulders above the rest, maybe a 5 bid league. How many top 20 OOC wins does the team have through 6 weeks?

PSU: One (#3 Cornell)
Maryland: One (#19 Colgate)
OSU: None
JHU: None
Rutgers: None
Michigan: None

Compare that to the ACC:
Duke: Two (#8 Loyola, #11 Denver)
ND: Two (#6 Maryland, #11 Denver)
UVA: One (#16 Lehigh)
Cuse: Two (#17 JHU, #18 Army)
UNC: None

Or the Ivy League, who starts their season two weeks later:
Yale: One (#1 PSU)
Cornell: Two (#5 Towson, #16 Lehigh)

Beyond Penn State and JHU, looks like the rest of the league has had pretty soft early season schedules and has failed to win the few tough match-ups they have had.

[Hawkeye]

Compare that to the ACC:
Duke: Two (#8 Loyola, #11 Denver)
ND: Two (#6 Maryland, #11 Denver)
UVA: One (#16 Lehigh)
Cuse: Two (#17 JHU, #18 Army)
UNC: None

Alternatively, how many games have ACC teams lost to Sunshine Conference teams? Seems to balance out. To me, the Big Ten and ACC both look like 3 bid leagues now. Maybe 4, tops, for one of them.

[Cooter]

Very quiet from this board. A lot of chest thumping early in the season about the conference being head and shoulders above the rest, maybe a 5 bid league. How many top 20 OOC wins does the team have through 6 weeks?

You seem to be exaggerating a bit here.

PSU: One (#3 Cornell)
Maryland: One (#19 Colgate)
OSU: None
JHU: None
Rutgers: None
Michigan: None

Compare that to the ACC:
Duke: Two (#8 Loyola, #11 Denver)
ND: Two (#6 Maryland, #11 Denver)
UVA: One (#16 Lehigh)
Cuse: Two (#17 JHU, #18 Army)
UNC: None

Or the Ivy League, who starts their season two weeks later:
Yale: One (#1 PSU)
Cornell: Two (#5 Towson, #16 Lehigh)

Beyond Penn State and JHU, looks like the rest of the league has had pretty soft early season schedules and has failed to win the few tough match-ups they have had.

As you seem to be using the media poll, I would point out that Maryland, Duke, and PSU have all beaten #20 Penn.

[Wheels]

Very quiet from this board. A lot of chest thumping early in the season about the conference being head and shoulders above the rest, maybe a 5 bid league. How many top 20 OOC wins does the team have through 6 weeks?

PSU: One (#3 Cornell)
Maryland: One (#19 Colgate)
OSU: None
JHU: None
Rutgers: None
Michigan: None

Compare that to the ACC:
Duke: Two (#8 Loyola, #11 Denver)
ND: Two (#6 Maryland, #11 Denver)
UVA: One (#16 Lehigh)
Cuse: Two (#17 JHU, #18 Army)
UNC: None

Or the Ivy League, who starts their season two weeks later:
Yale: One (#1 PSU)
Cornell: Two (#5 Towson, #16 Lehigh)

Beyond Penn State and JHU, looks like the rest of the league has had pretty soft early season schedules and has failed to win the few tough match-ups they have had.

According to Massey (https://www.masseyratings.com/clax/ncaa-d1/ratings), Duke has played an easier schedule than Maryland, Penn St, or Hopkins. UVA, Syracuse, and Notre Dame have all played similar schedules to those 3 B1G schools. Ohio State has played a soft schedule, and it reflects in their national ranking despite being undefeated. The B1G will be a 4-bid league (Md, PSU, OSU, RU/JHU). The ACC...not so sure. Duke and Syracuse (given their zillion home games) will probably make the tournament, as will Notre Dame. You never know what UVA will do. I don't see UNC making it.

[Justafan]

Compare that to the ACC:
Duke: Two (#8 Loyola, #11 Denver)
ND: Two (#6 Maryland, #11 Denver)
UVA: One (#16 Lehigh)
Cuse: Two (#17 JHU, #18 Army)
UNC: None

Alternatively, how many games have ACC teams lost to Sunshine Conference teams? Seems to balance out. To me, the Big Ten and ACC both look like 3 bid leagues now. Maybe 4, tops, for one of them.

I don't think it does even itself out. By saying that, you are saying that High Point and Richmond are bad teams, hence they were bad losses. In my opinion, that is not true. I think many people are thinking teams are good or bad based off of their names or conferences and living in the past. The ACC and Big Ten from top to bottom are arguably still the best conferences in the country. What is different, is that there are now teams that are in the Southern Conference and other conferences that are not considered top tiered, that now have teams that are just as good as teams in the Big ten and ACC. That is hard for some people to accept because that means they are not as superior as they thought and want to be based off of the past.

There is just alot more talent out there now. Everyone looks at these player rankings in High School and where a kid committed too and thinks a player is good or bad off of that. After the top couple of players in each class in each position, you have a couple hundred kids that are very similar and very good. The early recruiting had something to do with it also. Also the reasons that some of these top tiered colleges took kids is flawed. Many different reasons. But the bottom line is that it is hard to tell what a good win or loss is or what a bad win or loss is until later in the season. Not just because it is a specific college in a specific conference.

[Hawkeye]

I don't think it does even itself out. By saying that, you are saying that High Point and Richmond are bad teams, hence they were bad losses. In my opinion, that is not true.

I've seen both teams play multiple games this season, in particular:
Duke/Richmond
MSM/Richmond

Bonny/High Point
High Point/Duke
High Point/Virginia
UMBC/High Point


I'm not impressed with either of them. One of them will win the SoCon and get in obviously, and I think it will be Richmond. If this happens, High Point may have done just enough to get an at-large bid - it depends on how the rest of the season plays out. I don't think either team is in the top 15 come the end of the year.

[jimmywork]

I don't think it does even itself out. By saying that, you are saying that High Point and Richmond are bad teams, hence they were bad losses. In my opinion, that is not true.

I've seen both teams play multiple games this season, in particular:
Duke/Richmond
MSM/Richmond

Bonny/High Point
High Point/Duke
High Point/Virginia
UMBC/High Point


I'm not impressed with either of them. One of them will win the SoCon and get in obviously, and I think it will be Richmond. If this happens, High Point may have done just enough to get an at-large bid - it depends on how the rest of the season plays out. I don't think either team is in the top 15 come the end of the year.

I've seen Hopkins and Rutgers play multiple games this season, in particular:
Towson/JHU
JHU/Loyola
Princeton/JHU
Syracuse/JHU

Rutgers/Army
Rutgers/Loyola
Rutgers/Princeton

I'm not impressed with either of them. JHU's defense is a liability. If they don't control the FO X, that unit will get exposed time and time again. Rutgers is solid in all areas and great in maybe only goaltending. Tough way to live relying on 15+ saves every game. Neither team has a quality win while Richmond and HP have combined for three. Keep thinking you are superior, these teams play better when everyone is doubting them.

[jimmywork]

The B1G will be a 4-bid league (Md, PSU, OSU, RU/JHU). The ACC...not so sure. Duke and Syracuse (given their zillion home games) will probably make the tournament, as will Notre Dame. You never know what UVA will do. I don't see UNC making it.

How you can you consider OSU a shoe in and be confident that one of RU/JHU will get a bid? We will know a lot more about OSU when they face their first real challenge this weekend. As for RU/JHU, do you really have a positive outlook on either team?

JHU's defense can't hold up unless they have a significant possession advantage and the offense is not playing up to its potential.

Besides Edelmann, Rutgers is the definition of average. They were outplayed in that Princeton game and were lucky to escape with the win. Offense was pitiful in the 6v6 and the defense got bailed out by an unreal goalie performance. Could easily see them go 0-2 this week.

[Wheels]

The B1G will be a 4-bid league (Md, PSU, OSU, RU/JHU). The ACC...not so sure. Duke and Syracuse (given their zillion home games) will probably make the tournament, as will Notre Dame. You never know what UVA will do. I don't see UNC making it.

How you can you consider OSU a shoe in and be confident that one of RU/JHU will get a bid? We will know a lot more about OSU when they face their first real challenge this weekend. As for RU/JHU, do you really have a positive outlook on either team?

JHU's defense can't hold up unless they have a significant possession advantage and the offense is not playing up to its potential.

Besides Edelmann, Rutgers is the definition of average. They were outplayed in that Princeton game and were lucky to escape with the win. Offense was pitiful in the 6v6 and the defense got bailed out by an unreal goalie performance. Could easily see them go 0-2 this week.

The B1G is shaping up for another 2017 season. Ohio St is doing their odd year good, even year bad thing. Maryland and PSU are really good. A 2-3 RU team in the B1G with wins over Princeton, Syracuse, and Lehigh probably has a strong enough SOS and RPI to get in. Obviously, they need to win that game @Cuse and beat Lehigh, so you're right: this is a pivotal week for RU. If there's a ton of chaos in the B1G where you get multiple 3-2 teams, you'll get 4 bids. Hopkins doesn't look good to me, but they have a puncher's chance against a team like RU. The JHU-RU game is probably for that 4th spot in the B1G tournament given what we've seen so far on the field this season.

[Hawkeye]

Keep thinking you are superior, these teams play better when everyone is doubting them.

My team is currently 8-0 and heading toward the MCLA playoffs. I have no association with the Big Ten, ACC lacrosse, or Johns Hopkins. This isn't "we," as you imply.

We're discussing 4 teams that most likely won't be playing come the third week of May. Bottom line. Keep it up with the personal attacks. It's an effective strategy!

P.S.: You just compared the likely fourth and fifth best teams in the Big Ten to the likely best and second best teams in the Sunshine Conference. Very telling indeed!

If Sunshine Conference teams care how much I, anyone else on this message board, or the establishment doubts them, they will struggle even more than I suspect. I'm very firm in my belief that Richmond and/or High Point will get absolutely rolled come the tournament, forward that bulletin board material to them, please. Hopefully it motivates them (you seem to imply that they need extra motivation to play well). It would be nice to see a local team besides Duke/UNC win something for a change.

[calourie]

As of right now Michigan Hopkins and Rutgers look like they need to either finish out their OOC games with wins or play themselves into the BIG tourney, and get at least one quality win out of that deal to not be precariously positioned as far as an NCAA bid goes. OSU would solidify their status greatly (including a potential NCAA seed) with a win versus DU or Notre Dame, but otherwise will have to make at least some noise in the conference to keep themselves off the bubble. PSU and Maryland are likely to have strong cases to be seeded in the big dance unless they implode completely between now and season's end. As for the High Point-Richmond discussion the only SoCon team I see with a chance for an at large would be High Point, and even they could ill afford to lose to anyone but Richmond between now and the end of the season and still be in that position. The NCAA Lacrosse Selection Committee seems to have a bit more leeway to judge borderline teams than in most sports, and perhaps they will weigh High Points victories over Duke and UVA as enough of a difference maker to include them even with an additional loss but a set back of that nature would for sure leave them with a very anxious selection Sunday.

[Cooter]

I tend to agree with you.
PSU, UMd, and OSU are in good shape for the NCAA tmt at the moment. All have nice records. PSU is in the best shape with their quality win over Cornell.
The other 3 teams are sort of bubble out right now.

Rutgers has put themselves into a position where they need to win at least 1 game and probably 2 games against good teams: Syracuse (3/16), OSU, JHU, or PSU on the road. If Rutgers can beat Maryland on their home turf maybe just 1 of those. Rutgers plays Lehigh tonight and also has a game with Hofstra (3/23), both home games.

Johns Hopkins has 3 home OOC games coming up MSM (tonight), Delaware, and then Virginia. Hopkins really needs to take all three. Hopkins has 3 away games in Big Ten play: Michigan, PSU, and Maryland.

Michigan has an away game with Marquette this Saturday and a home game with Delaware the next weekend which they need to win. In between, they have home game with Notre Dame (next Tuesday), which would be a big win if they could pull it off. They get JHU, OSU, and PSU at home in Big Ten play.

Ohio State has Denver at home and Notre Dame away. In the Big Ten, OSU gets two Big Ten home games: Rutgers and Maryland.

Maryland has Villanova and UNC at home to finish up the OOC schedule. Maryland get 3 home games in the Big Ten: PSU, Michigan, and JHU.

Penn State has just one OOC game remaining at Cleveland State. They get 3 home games in the Big Ten: OSU, JHU, and Rutgers.

[Hawkeye]

The other 3 teams are sort of bubble out right now.

Johns Hopkins has 3 home OOC games coming up MSM (tonight), Delaware, and then Virginia. Hopkins really needs to take all three.

Assuming that Hopkins doesn't mess around and lose one of the "gimmie" games this week (is there still such a thing?), I think the UVA game likely decides their tournament fate. I think we pretty much agree on that one.

[FannOLax]

The other 3 teams are sort of bubble out right now.

Johns Hopkins has 3 home OOC games coming up MSM (tonight), Delaware, and then Virginia. Hopkins really needs to take all three.

Assuming that Hopkins doesn't mess around and lose one of the "gimmie" games this week (is there still such a thing?), I think the UVA game likely decides their tournament fate. I think we pretty much agree on that one.

Unfortunately, I can imagine Hop winning the UVa game and not getting into the tourney. Let's say JHU win the next three home games, including UVa; that puts the Jays at 5-3. From there, let's say JHU wins its home Big 10 games (Rutgers and OSU) and loses its road ones (Michigan, Maryland and PSU); that would put JHU at 7-6 and by no means a lock to get an NCAA bid. Short of the AQ, I'd say that Hop... well, it could be really tough to make the NCAAs.

[Hawkeye]

Unfortunately, I can imagine Hop winning the UVa game and not getting into the tourney. Let's say JHU win the next three home games, including UVa; that puts the Jays at 5-3. From there, let's say JHU wins its home Big 10 games (Rutgers and OSU) and loses its road ones (Michigan, Maryland and PSU); that would put JHU at 7-6 and by no means a lock to get an NCAA bid. Short of the AQ, I'd say that Hop... well, it could be really tough to make the NCAAs.

Yes, I can definitely see that too. I just have a feeling that the UVA game is make or break for Hopkins as far as any chance at an at-large bid goes. Based on nothing but a gut feeling.

To me, heading into conference play at 5-3 with your best win being UVA feels significantly different than 4-4 with your best win being Princeton.

[Cooter]

The other 3 teams are sort of bubble out right now.

Johns Hopkins has 3 home OOC games coming up MSM (tonight), Delaware, and then Virginia. Hopkins really needs to take all three.

Assuming that Hopkins doesn't mess around and lose one of the "gimmie" games this week (is there still such a thing?), I think the UVA game likely decides their tournament fate. I think we pretty much agree on that one.

Unfortunately, I can imagine Hop winning the UVa game and not getting into the tourney. Let's say JHU win the next three home games, including UVa; that puts the Jays at 5-3. From there, let's say JHU wins its home Big 10 games (Rutgers and OSU) and loses its road ones (Michigan, Maryland and PSU); that would put JHU at 7-6 and by no means a lock to get an NCAA bid. Short of the AQ, I'd say that Hop... well, it could be really tough to make the NCAAs.

They could still have a Big Ten tmt game; a 2-3 record can make the Big Ten tmt.

If they lose to UVa to be 4-4, and go 2-3 in the Big Ten, then they would probably be done - unless they got into the Big Ten tmt and won it.

[FannOLax]

And if Hop wins its next three, including UVa, snatches an away win at Michigan (loses at PSU and MD, beats Rutgers and OSU) but loses in the Big 10 semi, that would put the Blue Jays at 8-6, very much like 2016 when JHU got in (much to the frustration of Rutgers folks). Were that to happen again in 2019, I'm not sure that the UVa win would tip the scales to get Hop into the dance.