Give him a break, there is a "Wesleyan," and a bunch of other Wesleyans too, e.g., ILL. OH, VA.jerseyman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:48 pm18 and 20 are the same schoolReturnOfTheWAC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:41 pm I think this is a pretty fair
1. RIT
2. Salisbury
3. Tufts
4. Lynchburg
5. CNU
6. York
7. Franklin & Marshall
8. St. John Fisher
9. Williams
10. Cabrini
11. Stevens
12. Colorado College
13. Cortland
14. Ursinus
15. Stevenson
16. St Lawrence
17. Denison
18. Wesleyan
19. Gettysburg
20. Wesleyan
21. Washington and Lee
22. Dickinson
23. Illinois Wesleyan
24. Trinity
25.Union
2022 Pre Season Top 20
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Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
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- Joined: Sun Dec 27, 2020 12:12 pm
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
My mistake OWU at 20Unknown Participant wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:14 pmGive him a break, there is a "Wesleyan," and a bunch of other Wesleyans too, e.g., ILL. OH, VA.jerseyman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:48 pm18 and 20 are the same schoolReturnOfTheWAC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:41 pm I think this is a pretty fair
1. RIT
2. Salisbury
3. Tufts
4. Lynchburg
5. CNU
6. York
7. Franklin & Marshall
8. St. John Fisher
9. Williams
10. Cabrini
11. Stevens
12. Colorado College
13. Cortland
14. Ursinus
15. Stevenson
16. St Lawrence
17. Denison
18. Wesleyan
19. Gettysburg
20. Wesleyan
21. Washington and Lee
22. Dickinson
23. Illinois Wesleyan
24. Trinity
25.Union
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
A much more relevant and fair list I think... though I'm still not a believer in the "other" Wesleyans... I think OWU & IWU would lose by 10 to most of these teams... and Denison lost to Centre last year... granted, it was Covid, teams may not have been complete, etc. - I think Middlebury belongs there too... but, yes, they haven't played, covid, etc....ReturnOfTheWAC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:36 amMy mistake OWU at 20Unknown Participant wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:14 pmGive him a break, there is a "Wesleyan," and a bunch of other Wesleyans too, e.g., ILL. OH, VA.jerseyman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:48 pm18 and 20 are the same schoolReturnOfTheWAC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:41 pm I think this is a pretty fair
1. RIT
2. Salisbury
3. Tufts
4. Lynchburg
5. CNU
6. York
7. Franklin & Marshall
8. St. John Fisher
9. Williams
10. Cabrini
11. Stevens
12. Colorado College
13. Cortland
14. Ursinus
15. Stevenson
16. St Lawrence
17. Denison
18. Wesleyan
19. Gettysburg
20. Wesleyan
21. Washington and Lee
22. Dickinson
23. Illinois Wesleyan
24. Trinity
25.Union
Just looking at strength of schedule... tough to put those teams in there...
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Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
I wouldn’t be surprised to see the Dutchman shock some people. They have a ton of maturity on their roster (especially offensively) and they play the schedule to prove some people wrong.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
As much as it pains me to say …. I’m less certain of what to expect from Denison this year. Clearly they get on this PreSeason Top 20 solely on the back of the work Coach Caravana and likes of his 2012-2020 teams put in - those teams were legit and you knew what to expect. The way last year ended and now a completely new coaching staff gives me pause. In addition, Denison’s roster will have no 5th and 6th year players so they will be at a disadvantage against the top of the pyramid until the extra eligibility rules run out. This staff and team needs to earn their spot in the Top 20 - and they’ll have a chance to prove they belong early with games against W&L, Stevenson, Lynchburg and Dickinson. I hope they continue the progress and maintain the respect the recent teams had earned and these young guys (and especially the new HC) continue to measure up. Go Big Red!UpperCorner wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 12:01 pmA much more relevant and fair list I think... though I'm still not a believer in the "other" Wesleyans... I think OWU & IWU would lose by 10 to most of these teams... and Denison lost to Centre last year... granted, it was Covid, teams may not have been complete, etc. - I think Middlebury belongs there too... but, yes, they haven't played, covid, etc....ReturnOfTheWAC wrote: ↑Tue Jan 04, 2022 5:36 amMy mistake OWU at 20Unknown Participant wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 10:14 pmGive him a break, there is a "Wesleyan," and a bunch of other Wesleyans too, e.g., ILL. OH, VA.jerseyman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 9:48 pm18 and 20 are the same schoolReturnOfTheWAC wrote: ↑Mon Jan 03, 2022 1:41 pm I think this is a pretty fair
1. RIT
2. Salisbury
3. Tufts
4. Lynchburg
5. CNU
6. York
7. Franklin & Marshall
8. St. John Fisher
9. Williams
10. Cabrini
11. Stevens
12. Colorado College
13. Cortland
14. Ursinus
15. Stevenson
16. St Lawrence
17. Denison
18. Wesleyan
19. Gettysburg
20. Wesleyan
21. Washington and Lee
22. Dickinson
23. Illinois Wesleyan
24. Trinity
25.Union
Just looking at strength of schedule... tough to put those teams in there...
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- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
The polls start by predicting NCAA tournament field, and slowly morph into accurate power rankings by the end of the season.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:07 pm+1UpperCorner wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:07 pm I've said it before and I'll say it again - the D-III tournament in it's current form is a joke... no tournament games should end in 30-1 scores. Lets get the teams in the tournament that belong there... and i believe some of these teams are in their "Top 20" for the simple fact that they made the tournament - whether they belonged there or not...
It's poll equity (vs equality.) To "grow the game."
It's the whole AQ conversation.
It's been this way for 20+ years. It's just getting more pronounced and noticeable with more bad conferences getting AQs.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
It's disappointing that a slavish devotion to "growing the game" at the DIII level is causing folks to view the first couple rounds of the DIII tournament as a participation trophy event. But, when teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day are excluded in favor of teams that lose in the early rounds by 10+ goals, it's hard to take the process seriously. It certainly happens in DI, but to a far lesser extent.kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 8:41 amThe polls start by predicting NCAA tournament field, and slowly morph into accurate power rankings by the end of the season.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 6:07 pm+1UpperCorner wrote: ↑Thu Dec 30, 2021 2:07 pm I've said it before and I'll say it again - the D-III tournament in it's current form is a joke... no tournament games should end in 30-1 scores. Lets get the teams in the tournament that belong there... and i believe some of these teams are in their "Top 20" for the simple fact that they made the tournament - whether they belonged there or not...
It's poll equity (vs equality.) To "grow the game."
It's the whole AQ conversation.
It's been this way for 20+ years. It's just getting more pronounced and noticeable with more bad conferences getting AQs.
The interesting question for me is: in an age when many schools sponsor teams primarily because of the tuition revenue that players provide, why does the NCAA need to bastardize the DIII tournament in order to "grow the game"? It's not like removing/modifying the AQ system would impact those schools' decision to sponsor programs ...
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- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
Many of these teams are using lacrosse like Stevenson did to grow male (or female) enrollment and tuition income.
When Stevenson rebranded from a longtime 2-year women's finishing school (Villa Julie) into a 4 year coed, the top 2 jobs of the lacrosse coach was to 1) grow male enrollment and 2) grow tuition revenue.
Coaching lacrosse wasn't really on the list. So when VJ became Stevenson, every hs male, juco transfer or kid with a lax stick got a letter/call. That was what, 15 years ago? And if you notice, Villa Julie/Stevenson has never had roster limits or made cuts. EVER. They had what, 70 kids rostered last year?
Because it's a revenue/enrollment driver. Kids want to play college sports, even if it's just saying that they made a roster. Stevenson knows that. It's worth the cost of an extra practice uniform/JV coach to get a kid's full-boat tuition.
It's what many schools are doing. I think the NCAA AQ in these meh conferences are just an added incentive for these schools in non-hotbed areas to add programs. They can say they have another "NCAA tournament participant" program ... and that may hold some weight to the AD/College Admin's decision to add this "weird" sport. But those of us that follow it closely know many AQs are not worth much.
When Stevenson rebranded from a longtime 2-year women's finishing school (Villa Julie) into a 4 year coed, the top 2 jobs of the lacrosse coach was to 1) grow male enrollment and 2) grow tuition revenue.
Coaching lacrosse wasn't really on the list. So when VJ became Stevenson, every hs male, juco transfer or kid with a lax stick got a letter/call. That was what, 15 years ago? And if you notice, Villa Julie/Stevenson has never had roster limits or made cuts. EVER. They had what, 70 kids rostered last year?
Because it's a revenue/enrollment driver. Kids want to play college sports, even if it's just saying that they made a roster. Stevenson knows that. It's worth the cost of an extra practice uniform/JV coach to get a kid's full-boat tuition.
It's what many schools are doing. I think the NCAA AQ in these meh conferences are just an added incentive for these schools in non-hotbed areas to add programs. They can say they have another "NCAA tournament participant" program ... and that may hold some weight to the AD/College Admin's decision to add this "weird" sport. But those of us that follow it closely know many AQs are not worth much.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
I'd love to get an honest answer from an AD at a Region V school about whether the AQ plays any role in their decision to continue to sponsor the sport.kramerica.inc wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:34 amThey can say they have another "NCAA tournament participant" program ... and that may hold some weight to the AD/College Admin's decision to add this "weird" sport. But those of us that follow it closely know many AQs are not worth much.
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- Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 9:01 pm
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
My personal thought is that it IS worth something because many of the ADs at these non-hotbed D3 schools aren't really paying close attention to lacrosse competition. All they know are the basics- Is the team over .500? Good team GPA? No distracting discipline problems?
If you're good, they wont bother you. These ADs at midwest colleges just don't know the lax landscape. All they hear is that their school qualified for the NCAA tournament. That's good enough as a "sign of success" for them. They aren't expected to be ranked in a top 20 power poll or competing for NCAA titles.
If you're good, they wont bother you. These ADs at midwest colleges just don't know the lax landscape. All they hear is that their school qualified for the NCAA tournament. That's good enough as a "sign of success" for them. They aren't expected to be ranked in a top 20 power poll or competing for NCAA titles.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
^ very interesting points - thank you for the discussion.
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- Posts: 1220
- Joined: Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:46 pm
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
Preseason Top 20 - Good for every ensuing year.
1) Defending National Champion
2) Salisbury if they didn’t win previous championship.
3) Tufts/RIT if they didn’t win national championship.
4-15) Same teams as final poll only slightly rearranged.
16) Interchangeable middle of pack NESCAC team.
17) Cortland/Stevenson
18-19) Midwest/Pool B team to seem like I like growing the game.
20) Blue blood program that hasn’t been great for a long time but has a lot of posters on forum.
1) Defending National Champion
2) Salisbury if they didn’t win previous championship.
3) Tufts/RIT if they didn’t win national championship.
4-15) Same teams as final poll only slightly rearranged.
16) Interchangeable middle of pack NESCAC team.
17) Cortland/Stevenson
18-19) Midwest/Pool B team to seem like I like growing the game.
20) Blue blood program that hasn’t been great for a long time but has a lot of posters on forum.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
So who is the next team to break in? I would start by saying that 2022 will be an interesting year as several of the schools mentioned have several upperclassmen returning. I feel like Salisbury has more holes to fill than just about everyone ranked around them, there is no doubt that they will find their footing by the end of the year but there seem to be a couple of teams nipping at their heels and if York is bracketed in the south that would make the southern bracket very tough as I have York slightly ahead of both Lynchburg and CNU, but either way 4 of the top 6 would be in the southInsiderRoll wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:11 pm Preseason Top 20 - Good for every ensuing year.
1) Defending National Champion
2) Salisbury if they didn’t win previous championship.
3) Tufts/RIT if they didn’t win national championship.
4-15) Same teams as final poll only slightly rearranged.
16) Interchangeable middle of pack NESCAC team.
17) Cortland/Stevenson
18-19) Midwest/Pool B team to seem like I like growing the game.
20) Blue blood program that hasn’t been great for a long time but has a lot of posters on forum.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
AQ's are common among all sports though, so I don't know why you think that 2-3 conferences should gobble up 80% of the bids for the post season tournament because they're from traditional programs. There's some mismatches of course, but when you've had teams like Southern Virginia beating W&L (2021), Centre bouncing Dennison (2021), and even Berry College having recent 1-2 goal losses to Salisbury, CNU, & Colorado College the idea that there's such a gap that these teams can't knock off the heavyweights on any given day is ignoring how much the landscape is changing.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:17 amIt's disappointing that a slavish devotion to "growing the game" at the DIII level is causing folks to view the first couple rounds of the DIII tournament as a participation trophy event. But, when teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day are excluded in favor of teams that lose in the early rounds by 10+ goals, it's hard to take the process seriously. It certainly happens in DI, but to a far lesser extent.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
I'm not concerned with tradition, but I dislike excluding teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day. I believe "championship" tournaments should be an assembly of the most competitive teams. Consider how many conferences give conference tournament AQs to new conference members, just because they are new. As far as I am aware, this awkward charity only exists at the national tournament level.droliver wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:16 pmAQ's are common among all sports though, so I don't know why you think that 2-3 conferences should gobble up 80% of the bids for the post season tournament because they're from traditional programs. There's some mismatches of course, but when you've had teams like Southern Virginia beating W&L (2021), Centre bouncing Dennison (2021), and even Berry College having recent 1-2 goal losses to Salisbury, CNU, & Colorado College the idea that there's such a gap that these teams can't knock off the heavyweights on any given day is ignoring how much the landscape is changing.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:17 amIt's disappointing that a slavish devotion to "growing the game" at the DIII level is causing folks to view the first couple rounds of the DIII tournament as a participation trophy event. But, when teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day are excluded in favor of teams that lose in the early rounds by 10+ goals, it's hard to take the process seriously. It certainly happens in DI, but to a far lesser extent.
I do think @kramerica is right: the AQ system is in place to save some programs from the chopping block. Given the "full-pay heads-in-beds" model employed by many DIII programs, I think the AQ is unnecessary, but my opinion doesn't matter to the NCAA. That said, I'd be chagrined if I played on an AQ team that got spanked out of the tourney.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
I'll say it... every NESCAC team could beat half the AQ's by a minimum 10 goals... giving AQ's to these random conferences because you might have someone win a game? Thats ludicrous... prove it in the regular season by playing OOC games. If your conference lost in the tourney last year by more than 15-20 goals - perhaps that conference should not have an AQ. There are more than 40 D3 conferences... far fewer D1 conferences. At some point you have to face reality that some of these teams do not belong in the tourney.smoova wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:05 amI'm not concerned with tradition, but I dislike excluding teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day. I believe "championship" tournaments should be an assembly of the most competitive teams. Consider how many conferences give conference tournament AQs to new conference members, just because they are new. As far as I am aware, this awkward charity only exists at the national tournament level.droliver wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:16 pmAQ's are common among all sports though, so I don't know why you think that 2-3 conferences should gobble up 80% of the bids for the post season tournament because they're from traditional programs. There's some mismatches of course, but when you've had teams like Southern Virginia beating W&L (2021), Centre bouncing Dennison (2021), and even Berry College having recent 1-2 goal losses to Salisbury, CNU, & Colorado College the idea that there's such a gap that these teams can't knock off the heavyweights on any given day is ignoring how much the landscape is changing.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:17 amIt's disappointing that a slavish devotion to "growing the game" at the DIII level is causing folks to view the first couple rounds of the DIII tournament as a participation trophy event. But, when teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day are excluded in favor of teams that lose in the early rounds by 10+ goals, it's hard to take the process seriously. It certainly happens in DI, but to a far lesser extent.
I do think @kramerica is right: the AQ system is in place to save some programs from the chopping block. Given the "full-pay heads-in-beds" model employed by many DIII programs, I think the AQ is unnecessary, but my opinion doesn't matter to the NCAA. That said, I'd be chagrined if I played on an AQ team that got spanked out of the tourney.
Yes - we should grow the game - and its hard to argue that the game is not growing - but offering tourney spots to undeserving programs at the expense of real, solid programs that would make a great tourney - is not the answer.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
NESCAC downfall has begun, mark my words. The poisoning of the university by outside influences and pretentious student athletes has finally caught up to them. All eyes turn to the Liberty League as the top conference.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
The fact of the matter is these schools and these conferences pay yearly dues to the NCAA just like the NESCAC schools do. The NCAA sets up tournament play the same way in other sports like football, soccer, and basketball. If a conference has enough schools to qualify for an AQ, the conference sends a representative school. It does help grow the game and expand the geography across the country.UpperCorner wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:11 amI'll say it... every NESCAC team could beat half the AQ's by a minimum 10 goals... giving AQ's to these random conferences because you might have someone win a game? Thats ludicrous... prove it in the regular season by playing OOC games. If your conference lost in the tourney last year by more than 15-20 goals - perhaps that conference should not have an AQ. There are more than 40 D3 conferences... far fewer D1 conferences. At some point you have to face reality that some of these teams do not belong in the tourney.smoova wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:05 amI'm not concerned with tradition, but I dislike excluding teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day. I believe "championship" tournaments should be an assembly of the most competitive teams. Consider how many conferences give conference tournament AQs to new conference members, just because they are new. As far as I am aware, this awkward charity only exists at the national tournament level.droliver wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:16 pmAQ's are common among all sports though, so I don't know why you think that 2-3 conferences should gobble up 80% of the bids for the post season tournament because they're from traditional programs. There's some mismatches of course, but when you've had teams like Southern Virginia beating W&L (2021), Centre bouncing Dennison (2021), and even Berry College having recent 1-2 goal losses to Salisbury, CNU, & Colorado College the idea that there's such a gap that these teams can't knock off the heavyweights on any given day is ignoring how much the landscape is changing.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:17 amIt's disappointing that a slavish devotion to "growing the game" at the DIII level is causing folks to view the first couple rounds of the DIII tournament as a participation trophy event. But, when teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day are excluded in favor of teams that lose in the early rounds by 10+ goals, it's hard to take the process seriously. It certainly happens in DI, but to a far lesser extent.
I do think @kramerica is right: the AQ system is in place to save some programs from the chopping block. Given the "full-pay heads-in-beds" model employed by many DIII programs, I think the AQ is unnecessary, but my opinion doesn't matter to the NCAA. That said, I'd be chagrined if I played on an AQ team that got spanked out of the tourney.
Yes - we should grow the game - and its hard to argue that the game is not growing - but offering tourney spots to undeserving programs at the expense of real, solid programs that would make a great tourney - is not the answer.
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
Grow the game, grow the bracket. Seed the top 8 or 12, then play-in all teams, including AQs. The field of teams might approach 40, but that's OK. The NCAA can subsidize travel with duesOldWU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:12 pmThe fact of the matter is these schools and these conferences pay yearly dues to the NCAA just like the NESCAC schools do. The NCAA sets up tournament play the same way in other sports like football, soccer, and basketball. If a conference has enough schools to qualify for an AQ, the conference sends a representative school. It does help grow the game and expand the geography across the country.UpperCorner wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:11 amI'll say it... every NESCAC team could beat half the AQ's by a minimum 10 goals... giving AQ's to these random conferences because you might have someone win a game? Thats ludicrous... prove it in the regular season by playing OOC games. If your conference lost in the tourney last year by more than 15-20 goals - perhaps that conference should not have an AQ. There are more than 40 D3 conferences... far fewer D1 conferences. At some point you have to face reality that some of these teams do not belong in the tourney.smoova wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:05 amI'm not concerned with tradition, but I dislike excluding teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day. I believe "championship" tournaments should be an assembly of the most competitive teams. Consider how many conferences give conference tournament AQs to new conference members, just because they are new. As far as I am aware, this awkward charity only exists at the national tournament level.droliver wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:16 pmAQ's are common among all sports though, so I don't know why you think that 2-3 conferences should gobble up 80% of the bids for the post season tournament because they're from traditional programs. There's some mismatches of course, but when you've had teams like Southern Virginia beating W&L (2021), Centre bouncing Dennison (2021), and even Berry College having recent 1-2 goal losses to Salisbury, CNU, & Colorado College the idea that there's such a gap that these teams can't knock off the heavyweights on any given day is ignoring how much the landscape is changing.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:17 amIt's disappointing that a slavish devotion to "growing the game" at the DIII level is causing folks to view the first couple rounds of the DIII tournament as a participation trophy event. But, when teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day are excluded in favor of teams that lose in the early rounds by 10+ goals, it's hard to take the process seriously. It certainly happens in DI, but to a far lesser extent.
I do think @kramerica is right: the AQ system is in place to save some programs from the chopping block. Given the "full-pay heads-in-beds" model employed by many DIII programs, I think the AQ is unnecessary, but my opinion doesn't matter to the NCAA. That said, I'd be chagrined if I played on an AQ team that got spanked out of the tourney.
Yes - we should grow the game - and its hard to argue that the game is not growing - but offering tourney spots to undeserving programs at the expense of real, solid programs that would make a great tourney - is not the answer.
poster formerly know as "wherestheslide"
Re: 2022 Pre Season Top 20
Some organization should host the lacrosse version of the NIT basketball tournament. All the good but snubbed teams would put on a better show than the 2-3 rounds of the NCAA.BallHunt wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 1:33 pmGrow the game, grow the bracket. Seed the top 8 or 12, then play-in all teams, including AQs. The field of teams might approach 40, but that's OK. The NCAA can subsidize travel with duesOldWU wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 12:12 pmThe fact of the matter is these schools and these conferences pay yearly dues to the NCAA just like the NESCAC schools do. The NCAA sets up tournament play the same way in other sports like football, soccer, and basketball. If a conference has enough schools to qualify for an AQ, the conference sends a representative school. It does help grow the game and expand the geography across the country.UpperCorner wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 9:11 amI'll say it... every NESCAC team could beat half the AQ's by a minimum 10 goals... giving AQ's to these random conferences because you might have someone win a game? Thats ludicrous... prove it in the regular season by playing OOC games. If your conference lost in the tourney last year by more than 15-20 goals - perhaps that conference should not have an AQ. There are more than 40 D3 conferences... far fewer D1 conferences. At some point you have to face reality that some of these teams do not belong in the tourney.smoova wrote: ↑Mon Jan 17, 2022 8:05 amI'm not concerned with tradition, but I dislike excluding teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day. I believe "championship" tournaments should be an assembly of the most competitive teams. Consider how many conferences give conference tournament AQs to new conference members, just because they are new. As far as I am aware, this awkward charity only exists at the national tournament level.droliver wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:16 pmAQ's are common among all sports though, so I don't know why you think that 2-3 conferences should gobble up 80% of the bids for the post season tournament because they're from traditional programs. There's some mismatches of course, but when you've had teams like Southern Virginia beating W&L (2021), Centre bouncing Dennison (2021), and even Berry College having recent 1-2 goal losses to Salisbury, CNU, & Colorado College the idea that there's such a gap that these teams can't knock off the heavyweights on any given day is ignoring how much the landscape is changing.smoova wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 9:17 amIt's disappointing that a slavish devotion to "growing the game" at the DIII level is causing folks to view the first couple rounds of the DIII tournament as a participation trophy event. But, when teams with legitimate shots to play on Memorial Day are excluded in favor of teams that lose in the early rounds by 10+ goals, it's hard to take the process seriously. It certainly happens in DI, but to a far lesser extent.
I do think @kramerica is right: the AQ system is in place to save some programs from the chopping block. Given the "full-pay heads-in-beds" model employed by many DIII programs, I think the AQ is unnecessary, but my opinion doesn't matter to the NCAA. That said, I'd be chagrined if I played on an AQ team that got spanked out of the tourney.
Yes - we should grow the game - and its hard to argue that the game is not growing - but offering tourney spots to undeserving programs at the expense of real, solid programs that would make a great tourney - is not the answer.
poster formerly know as "wherestheslide"