Looking Forward to 2022

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

There have been a lot of great points made about the state of the Boston College team at the end of 2012 before Acacia took over, but I still think the original point has merit and has not been completely refuted. And I still wonder if Lax101 meant to use the word “fairly”. Fairly means thoroughly, completely, to quite a high degree; to a full degree or extent. But it it also means moderately. I don’t agree with fully irrelevant, but standing at the end of the 2012 season where they had only made one tournament in their history, I have no argument with moderately irrelevant.

[8meterPA]

There have been a lot of great points made about the state of the Boston College team at the end of 2012 before Acacia took over, but I still think the original point has merit and has not been completely refuted. And I still wonder if Lax101 meant to use the word “fairly”. Fairly means thoroughly, completely, to quite a high degree; to a full degree or extent. But it it also means moderately. I don’t agree with fully irrelevant, but standing at the end of the 2012 season where they had only made one tournament in their history, I have no argument with moderately irrelevant.


I think BC was kinda, or somewhat, or maybe, or sorta, irrelevant. But definitely not moderately or fairly.

[seacoaster]

There have been a lot of great points made about the state of the Boston College team at the end of 2012 before Acacia took over, but I still think the original point has merit and has not been completely refuted. And I still wonder if Lax101 meant to use the word “fairly”. Fairly means thoroughly, completely, to quite a high degree; to a full degree or extent. But it it also means moderately. I don’t agree with fully irrelevant, but standing at the end of the 2012 season where they had only made one tournament in their history, I have no argument with moderately irrelevant.


I think BC was kinda, or somewhat, or maybe, or sorta, irrelevant. But definitely not moderately or fairly.

Hah!! Recruiting is a pretty intense competition. Stanwick and Rix were probably two of the truly marquee high school seniors, from known quantity hotbed lax-playing regions and schools...and Holden landed both. So Holden lands a Garden City kid, top of her class. Think maybe Kaileen Hart, Sam A, Cara U, etc., didn't hear about it, talk to her, get the low down from other Yellow Jackets or whoever their club team was? Sorry: that is relevance.

So, what teams occupy 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 coming into the 2022 season? Why? Let's have a discussion that really doesn't matter!!!

[LarryGamLax]

I'll stand by my irrelevant comment. Winning 20 percent of your conference games over an extended period of time makes you irrelevant and will cost your coach her job in the long run. Nothing personal with BC - I know several girls from past teams and the current team. I bet most of the ACC coaches during the Holden era would have considered BC irrelevant as well -: ). Would you turn on the TV to watch the old BC team for most of the years under the prior head coach. I certainly wouldn't. Let's be honest, their is a huge drop off in team talent once you get beyond the Top 10. In my opinion there are irrelevant teams in the Top 20 each year. For example if you would lose by running clock to most Top 5 teams and you can not compete for a conference championship you are irrelevant to most college lax fans.

"Turn on your TV to watch the old BC?" You couldn't turn on your TV to watch too many games of ANY team!
Here's another beaut, "Irrelevant to most college Lacrosse Fans"? WHAT! Most college Lacrosse fans(we're talking about women's Lax) consist of friends and families, so outside of that core group, (to quote Jerry Seinfeld) "who are these people?"
So now that you have revealed your true feelings, you should only comment on the top 10 from now on. Don't even bother with the miscreants and losers below the top 10. They are worthless and not a good use of your valuable thoughts and time.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

I think standing at the end of the 2012 season it could be said that BC was largely irrelevant. That has nothing to do with recruiting or what the team turned into or who was in place when Acacia took over.

[LarryGamLax]

Lax101 wrote “fairly irrelevant”. I think it’s only fair to ask what was meant by “fairly”. I don’t have the same history invested as others here but after looking at the stats, I didn’t have a problem with the description. But what do I know.

In my humble opinion making 1 NCAA tournament in the 20 years prior to AW makes the program "fairly irrelevant".

I'm raising my voice on this...that last statement is sooo FREAKIN STUPID it cries out from a lack of balance. hmmm has expressed that opinion based on one fact. Okay. What was that team's budget all those years before AWW? Did that team have Field issues addressed by a previous coach and dismissed by a former AD? Was that same AD a sexist, misogynistic POC who only cared about Men's athletics and the FH team because his daughter was on it? Did you know that WLX at BC was once considered to be a Tier 10 sport in an athletic program that has 4-5 tiers? That alone can keep a program down for years with almost no chance to break the wall.

To sum it up nicely, all D1 programs are not created equal or held in the same bright light as others. Before you consider someone to be irrelevant, make sure you know if the playing field is as level as your vaunted top 10 programs. I know what Lafayette and UNH used to be in D1, but that's not the case anymore and there are reasons as to why they fell from grace.

[hmmm]

Lax101 wrote “fairly irrelevant”. I think it’s only fair to ask what was meant by “fairly”. I don’t have the same history invested as others here but after looking at the stats, I didn’t have a problem with the description. But what do I know.

In my humble opinion making 1 NCAA tournament in the 20 years prior to AW makes the program "fairly irrelevant".

I'm raising my voice on this...that last statement is sooo FREAKIN STUPID it cries out from a lack of balance. hmmm has expressed that opinion based on one fact. Okay. What was that team's budget all those years before AWW? Did that team have Field issues addressed by a previous coach and dismissed by a former AD? Was that same AD a sexist, misogynistic POC who only cared about Men's athletics and the FH team because his daughter was on it? Did you know that WLX at BC was once considered to be a Tier 10 sport in an athletic program that has 4-5 tiers? That alone can keep a program down for years with almost no chance to break the wall.

To sum it up nicely, all D1 programs are not created equal or held in the same bright light as others. Before you consider someone to be irrelevant, make sure you know if the playing field is as level as your vaunted top 10 programs. I know what Lafayette and UNH used to be in D1, but that's not the case anymore and there are reasons as to why they fell from grace.

So what you're essentially saying is that BC considered the program irrelevant but the general public didn't?

[tothedraw]

I'm a Lacrosse fan, former coach, mom of players (not D1). And I certainly knew of BC and followed them because I followed good high school lacrosse. Rix and Stanwick were huge gets for that program and started their rise to a championship . Rix was one of the most impressive high school players I had the privilege to watch in the NY State Championships. Follow and support #wefight_likesgirls on IG. Amazing young woman and family. Relevant to win title at the time, no, but def a team to pay attention to.

Edited to fix IG link.

[wlaxphan20]

https://www.laxjournal.com/from-the-pod ... lfishness/

I think the point of talking about recruits landed was the fact that these recruits generated a lot of buzz around BC and anyone paying attention would not consider them "irrelevant". These weren't just well-regarded recruits, they landed the no. 2 & 3 recruits in the country (Duke landed #1 Taylor Trimble out of Rosemont, PA).

I'm beating a dead horse at this point, but I thought the article was appropriate.

[Bart]

I think standing at the end of the 2012 season it could be said that BC was largely irrelevant. That has nothing to do with recruiting or what the team turned into or who was in place when Acacia took over.

Really? The relevance of a team plays no role in the recruitment of any players? Relevance of a team is personal among an athlete being recruited and depending on the caliber of the player in question the relevance changes accordingly. Highly touted talented players are more than likely not going to a team they feel is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. That is the largest hurdle for any coach building a program, imo, to convince the athletes at the pointy tip of the arrow that their program is relevant an a national stage and that by attending XYZ University they will continue to be relevant.

I am not on the summer circuit any more but I imagine one of the most "relevant" teams being discussed up and down I95 is a team with a 0-0 record.

[LarryGamLax]

Lax101 wrote “fairly irrelevant”. I think it’s only fair to ask what was meant by “fairly”. I don’t have the same history invested as others here but after looking at the stats, I didn’t have a problem with the description. But what do I know.

In my humble opinion making 1 NCAA tournament in the 20 years prior to AW makes the program "fairly irrelevant".

I'm raising my voice on this...that last statement is sooo FREAKIN STUPID it cries out from a lack of balance. hmmm has expressed that opinion based on one fact. Okay. What was that team's budget all those years before AWW? Did that team have Field issues addressed by a previous coach and dismissed by a former AD? Was that same AD a sexist, misogynistic POC who only cared about Men's athletics and the FH team because his daughter was on it? Did you know that WLX at BC was once considered to be a Tier 10 sport in an athletic program that has 4-5 tiers? That alone can keep a program down for years with almost no chance to break the wall.

To sum it up nicely, all D1 programs are not created equal or held in the same bright light as others. Before you consider someone to be irrelevant, make sure you know if the playing field is as level as your vaunted top 10 programs. I know what Lafayette and UNH used to be in D1, but that's not the case anymore and there are reasons as to why they fell from grace.

So what you're essentially saying is that BC considered the program irrelevant but the general public didn't?

Really? Did you read what I posted last?

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Hindsight makes things crystal clear.
Not every top recruit pans out.
A program with one visit to the NCAA's in 20 years could be considered irrelevant.

The defense rests.

[8meterPA]

Kids going back to college this weekend - and will soon be practicing and no longer have to opine on the relevance/irrelevance, meaning of fairly vs.moderate, 2012 BC team!

[BCGold]

When AWW took over there was a foundation ready to take the program to another level… I’d argue not top 5 level, but a fairly consistent top 20ish level. But it was a fragile foundation, and BC could easily have slid back to mediocrity.

AWW has taken the program light years ahead of what most would have thought possible when she was hired.

BC in the National Championship game 4 years in a row? Two Tewaaraton winners in 3 years?

Saw an interview with her a few years back and she said something to the effect of “recruits are now coming here knowing that they are going to an established program, they are no longer taking a chance on BC”.

Somewhere along the line the transition was made from a good school that showed promise, to a perennial contender.

It’s also important to realize that AWW didn’t benefit from just 1 or 2 monster recruiting classes where everything fell together. The last half dozen years BC is always going head to head with lacrosse blue bloods for top recruits, something that would be laughable 10 years ago (and yes I realize Rix and Stanwick were top 5 recruits, but for the most part we never won the battles against the big lac schools, and depth was an issue)

AWW, in my humble opinion, has taken a top 20ish program with 1 NCAA appearance, and catapulted them into a perennial top 3 program in very little time.

She assembled a great staff, and boasts top recruiting classes coming in for the foreseeable future.

Can’t wait to see how far she can take the program now that she has the NC to add more legitimacy and appeal to ‘23, ‘24 and beyond recruits… gonna be a nice run!

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

When AWW took over there was a foundation ready to take the program to another level… I’d argue not top 5 level, but a fairly consistent top 20ish level. But it was a fragile foundation, and BC could easily have slid back to mediocrity.

AWW has taken the program light years ahead of what most would have thought possible when she was hired.

BC in the National Championship game 4 years in a row? Two Tewaaraton winners in 3 years?

Saw an interview with her a few years back and she said something to the effect of “recruits are now coming here knowing that they are going to an established program, they are no longer taking a chance on BC”.

Somewhere along the line the transition was made from a good school that showed promise, to a perennial contender.

It’s also important to realize that AWW didn’t benefit from just 1 or 2 monster recruiting classes where everything fell together. The last half dozen years BC is always going head to head with lacrosse blue bloods for top recruits, something that would be laughable 10 years ago (and yes I realize Rix and Stanwick were top 5 recruits, but for the most part we never won the battles against the big lac schools, and depth was an issue)

AWW, in my humble opinion, has taken a top 20ish program with 1 NCAA appearance, and catapulted them into a perennial top 3 program in very little time.

She assembled a great staff, and boasts top recruiting classes coming in for the foreseeable future.

Can’t wait to see how far she can take the program now that she has the NC to add more legitimacy and appeal to ‘23, ‘24 and beyond recruits… gonna be a nice run!

I love this post.

[wlaxphan20]

It’s also important to realize that AWW didn’t benefit from just 1 or 2 monster recruiting classes where everything fell together. The last half dozen years BC is always going head to head with lacrosse blue bloods for top recruits, something that would be laughable 10 years ago (and yes I realize Rix and Stanwick were top 5 recruits, but for the most part we never won the battles against the big lac schools, and depth was an issue)

I generally can agree with your post for the most part except the section above - AWW literally says it herself:

"I have to give credit to my assistant coach, Jen Kent. She and the old coach, Bowen Holden, actually got Covie Stanwick and Mikaela Rix to come. They were two of the biggest names, the biggest family names in lacrosse, and that was before I got there. The two of them sort of paved the way. Once the two of them took a chance on coming to Boston College, instead of a UNC or a Maryland … that sort of put us in position to recruit players of that caliber.”

I don't think anyone is denying where AWW has taken BC. And getting to the top 5 was the easy part - she's been able to maintain that position 4 out of the last 5 years (still not sure how to count the 2020 COVID year, but things weren't looking good for them at the time). I just think that some feel that BC's situation was not as dire as it has been implied when AWW took over. BC was not a train wreck and Holden certainly left the program in a better state than when she started. This wasn't a program that needed "saving", it was already ascending under Holden and it was passed to AWW who continued that ascension. At least that's my $0.02

I am not on the summer circuit any more but I imagine one of the most "relevant" teams being discussed up and down I95 is a team with a 0-0 record.

Clemson?

[Bart]

It’s also important to realize that AWW didn’t benefit from just 1 or 2 monster recruiting classes where everything fell together. The last half dozen years BC is always going head to head with lacrosse blue bloods for top recruits, something that would be laughable 10 years ago (and yes I realize Rix and Stanwick were top 5 recruits, but for the most part we never won the battles against the big lac schools, and depth was an issue)

I generally can agree with your post for the most part except the section above - AWW literally says it herself:

"I have to give credit to my assistant coach, Jen Kent. She and the old coach, Bowen Holden, actually got Covie Stanwick and Mikaela Rix to come. They were two of the biggest names, the biggest family names in lacrosse, and that was before I got there. The two of them sort of paved the way. Once the two of them took a chance on coming to Boston College, instead of a UNC or a Maryland … that sort of put us in position to recruit players of that caliber.”

I don't think anyone is denying where AWW has taken BC. And getting to the top 5 was the easy part - she's been able to maintain that position 4 out of the last 5 years (still not sure how to count the 2020 COVID year, but things weren't looking good for them at the time). I just think that some feel that BC's situation was not as dire as it has been implied when AWW took over. BC was not a train wreck and Holden certainly left the program in a better state than when she started. This wasn't a program that needed "saving", it was already ascending under Holden and it was passed to AWW who continued that ascension. At least that's my $0.02

I am not on the summer circuit any more but I imagine one of the most "relevant" teams being discussed up and down I95 is a team with a 0-0 record.

Clemson?

That would be my guess. Gummies for you!

[BCGold]

Agree that the program she inherited wasn’t a train wreck, but even the most fanatical BC lac fan could not have imagined the current state of the program as it stands today.

AWW speaks of the “inches” that the program has taken over a period of years that have resulted in a Nat Championship.

No doubt those recruiting wins by Holden and Jen Kent to get the early top players was a big part of that.

On a side note, I’d luv the field hockey team to make some noise… lac and fh tend to draw from the same kind of athlete, and those tend to gravitate to BC.

But that’s a topic for a different sport thread

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Will anyone crack the Top 4 of BC, NC, NU or Syracuse next season? I give Stony Brook a chance. After reading Innovator Joe's comments in a recent article, I find Spallina's outlook on his '22 edition compelling. Who else could push their way into the Top 4? Notre Dame? Duke? Maryland? Florida? Loyola? This question is aimed at championship weekend, but even during the regular season would be nice for a little change.

[seacoaster]

Will anyone crack the Top 4 of BC, NC, NU or Syracuse next season? I give Stony Brook a chance. After reading Innovator Joe's comments in a recent article, I find Spallina's outlook on his '22 edition compelling. Who else could push their way into the Top 4? Notre Dame? Duke? Maryland? Florida? Loyola? This question is aimed at championship weekend, but even during the regular season would be nice for a little change.

I say "no way" SBU cracks the top four. I'd guess SBU ends up around No. 7 or 8.