Utah

[old salt]

Can Utah match these rates ?

https://www.thestjames.com/sports/lacrosse

https://www.sowelllax.com/

Current Rates
-- Initial Assessment & Consultation (required) - $500
-- Standard Annual Program - $3,000
-- All fees are due in advance of services

I agree with ffg that Sowell might be a success at Utah if he can recruit P5 caliber athletes & let 'em play, especially if he could get a few W Canadian experienced box players, like he inherited at SB.

sowell would do much better if he got the type of w canadians that he signed at sb, like mcbride and crowley. not the ones he inherited. those guys were program changers

Did he recruit them or were they already headed that way because of their connection to Rhys Duch ?

sowell was hired in 2006. seeing as how crowley went to simon fraser in 06-07 was that the plan prior? maybe it was, you tell me / link? couldn't get in to stony?
supposedly mcbride told "sbu coaches" about crowley. not sure when, do you have that? when did mcbride commit before signing in late '06?

Ricky can’t get credit for doing anything positive.

sending to an naia school seems like quite the risk, probably shoulda sent to pg to be sure:
https://www.ncsasports.org/naia-eligibi ... sfer-rules
maybe ricky really impressed rhys duch those first 6 months, at least.

don't follow the guy. follow the guy that follows the guy.

...going by what sore+old posted on LP, re the Duch connection. Duch's first 2 seasons at SB were under Tiffany. Duch was a sr when McBride & Crowley arrived as fr.

Duch, McBride, Crowley, Belton & Campbell did not come straight from HS. How many years in advance were they recruited, as 8th graders or late, as post HS " free agents " ? It was a recruiting coup. Can it be replicated ? Has any other team team or coach worked the Canadian connection as successfully as Sowell did at SB from 08-11 ? He could not tap the Canadian pipeline at USNA. Would it still be available from Utah, or does the pipeline now run through the Hill Academy & are more coaches now recruiting earlier, throughout Canada ?

[10stone5]

Edge Lacrosse is who I track these days, versus say,
Culver or Hill Academies.
Mark Matthews was the best out of that club, but a lot
of good Canadians from Edge.
Donville, Tinney, Dillon Ward, Dylan Watson are from this club.

[wgdsr]

Edge Lacrosse is who I track these days, versus say,
Culver or Hill Academies.
Mark Matthews was the best out of that club, but a lot
of good Canadians from Edge.
Donville, Tinney, Dillon Ward, Dylan Watson are from this club.

very briefly coached some club. edge absolutely destroyed my guys like no one ever did.
2 man game, shooting. course, they had 30 pounds and were (not) shaving their beards.
next time was closer, but man...

[old salt]

Here's some info on the British Columbia connection with those great SB teams :

http://sbulacrosse.blogspot.com/2011/08 ... aug11.html

https://laxallstars.com/fireside-chat-w ... n-crowley/

re. the growth of the Canadian connection :
https://www.si.com/edge/2016/05/04/the- ... ie-merrill
While the influx of Canadians at the next level of the sport is not a new development, there has been a recent surge.
...fewer than 40 Canadians in 2001 were on NCAA lacrosse rosters in Division I, II, and III combined.
Last year, there were 157 Canadians in Division I alone.

[laxpert]

Sowell has no interest in Utah; and, no matter how it is/was spun, Holman was canned. Further, the money tree has dried up...will turn into a lower tier D1 paying job if it hasn't already..

Holman was getting $180k, all in. That goes a long way in SLC...

The new coach will be getting far less, is that right?

The reason or reasons for Holman departure is a question I want answered before taking the job.

I glean from previous posts and this article,Utah lacrosse builds toward Division I dream - The Salt Lake Tribune (sltrib.com) ,the current administration doesn’t have the same vision that previous powers and David Neeleman possessed in 2017. I get the vibe that Neeleman saw Utah with its big time facilities and his support being the vanguard to Western expansion finding temporary quarters in the Big East or B1G until other PAC 12 programs upgraded from club status. Utah found a home in the ASUN a conference that consists of Utah, Air Force and four schools with a Forbes financial grade of C minus or lower. With a net worth of 400 million dollars I doubt if he would let the program die on the vine but his vision of a westward expansion faced significant hurdles before the Supreme Court ruling now the future of the NCAA is questioned by some. It’s understandable if his enthusiasm has waned.
You could make the argument that due to recent changes in the collegiate athletic landscape Utah will benchmark lacrosse budgets with its ASUN brethren and concentrate on PAC 12 football. They just did an 80 million dollar upgrade to the football stadium.

According to public records CSU head coach made less than 60K in 2019 and I would think RoMo, Bellarmine and DMU are probably within same ‘ hood. Then again I could be wrong
https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=CMSID
https://kutv.com/features/person-2-pers ... n-lacrosse

[Farfromgeneva]

Sowell has no interest in Utah; and, no matter how it is/was spun, Holman was canned. Further, the money tree has dried up...will turn into a lower tier D1 paying job if it hasn't already..

Holman was getting $180k, all in. That goes a long way in SLC...

The new coach will be getting far less, is that right?

The reason or reasons for Holman departures is a question I want answered before taking the job.

I glean from previous posts and this article,Utah lacrosse builds toward Division I dream - The Salt Lake Tribune (sltrib.com) ,the current administration doesn’t have the same vision that previous powers and Neeleman possessed in 2017. I get the vibe that Neeleman saw Utah with its big time facilities and his support being the vanguard to Western expansion finding temporary quarters in the Big East or B1G until other PAC 12 programs upgraded from club status. Utah found a home in the ASUN a conference that consists of Utah, Air Force and four schools with a Forbes financial grade of C minus or lower. With a net worth of 400 million dollars I doubt if he would let the program die on the vine but his vision of a westward expansion faced significant hurdles before the Supreme Court ruling now the future of the NCAA is questioned by some. It’s understandable if his enthusiasm has waned.
You could make the argument that due to recent changes in the collegiate athletic landscape Utah will benchmark lacrosse budgets with its ASUN brethren and concentrate on PAC 12 football. They just did an 80 million dollar upgrade to the football stadium.

According to public records CSU head coach made less than 60K in 2019 and I would think RoMo, Bellarmine and DMU are probably within same ‘ hood. Then again I could be wrong

I’d be shocked if they ended up paying $60 area, really would still expect like $90k+ and really $100k.

[MDlaxfan76]

Sowell has no interest in Utah; and, no matter how it is/was spun, Holman was canned. Further, the money tree has dried up...will turn into a lower tier D1 paying job if it hasn't already..

Holman was getting $180k, all in. That goes a long way in SLC...

The new coach will be getting far less, is that right?

The reason or reasons for Holman departures is a question I want answered before taking the job.

I glean from previous posts and this article,Utah lacrosse builds toward Division I dream - The Salt Lake Tribune (sltrib.com) ,the current administration doesn’t have the same vision that previous powers and Neeleman possessed in 2017. I get the vibe that Neeleman saw Utah with its big time facilities and his support being the vanguard to Western expansion finding temporary quarters in the Big East or B1G until other PAC 12 programs upgraded from club status. Utah found a home in the ASUN a conference that consists of Utah, Air Force and four schools with a Forbes financial grade of C minus or lower. With a net worth of 400 million dollars I doubt if he would let the program die on the vine but his vision of a westward expansion faced significant hurdles before the Supreme Court ruling now the future of the NCAA is questioned by some. It’s understandable if his enthusiasm has waned.
You could make the argument that due to recent changes in the collegiate athletic landscape Utah will benchmark lacrosse budgets with its ASUN brethren and concentrate on PAC 12 football. They just did an 80 million dollar upgrade to the football stadium.

According to public records CSU head coach made less than 60K in 2019 and I would think RoMo, Bellarmine and DMU are probably within same ‘ hood. Then again I could be wrong

I’d be shocked if they ended up paying $60 area, really would still expect like $90k+ and really $100k.

Minimum, else they're essentially saying no aspirations at all.

[Farfromgeneva]

I would assume like $150 but I never can tell. Coupe of years back I was offered the assistant treasurer gig for UPS at $95k base with suggestion they had a “little room”. Seems like it’s easy to get to around $100k but outside of the major cities getting much above $120 is still a challenge, again outside of Maybe the too 6-8 msas.

[keno in reno]

Sowell has no interest in Utah; and, no matter how it is/was spun, Holman was canned. Further, the money tree has dried up...will turn into a lower tier D1 paying job if it hasn't already..

Holman was getting $180k, all in. That goes a long way in SLC...

The new coach will be getting far less, is that right?

The reason or reasons for Holman departure is a question I want answered before taking the job.

I glean from previous posts and this article,Utah lacrosse builds toward Division I dream - The Salt Lake Tribune (sltrib.com) ,the current administration doesn’t have the same vision that previous powers and David Neeleman possessed in 2017. I get the vibe that Neeleman saw Utah with its big time facilities and his support being the vanguard to Western expansion finding temporary quarters in the Big East or B1G until other PAC 12 programs upgraded from club status. Utah found a home in the ASUN a conference that consists of Utah, Air Force and four schools with a Forbes financial grade of C minus or lower. With a net worth of 400 million dollars I doubt if he would let the program die on the vine but his vision of a westward expansion faced significant hurdles before the Supreme Court ruling now the future of the NCAA is questioned by some. It’s understandable if his enthusiasm has waned.
You could make the argument that due to recent changes in the collegiate athletic landscape Utah will benchmark lacrosse budgets with its ASUN brethren and concentrate on PAC 12 football. They just did an 80 million dollar upgrade to the football stadium.

According to public records CSU head coach made less than 60K in 2019 and I would think RoMo, Bellarmine and DMU are probably within same ‘ hood. Then again I could be wrong
https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=CMSID
https://kutv.com/features/person-2-pers ... n-lacrosse

good input...but any coach in that position 4 years ago is an idiot if he thought Title IX is somehow going to poof, disappear regardless of any impending Supreme Court ruling. Title IX and college sports economics combine to ensure that Men's D1 lacrosse grows at a snail's pace at best.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Sowell has no interest in Utah; and, no matter how it is/was spun, Holman was canned. Further, the money tree has dried up...will turn into a lower tier D1 paying job if it hasn't already..

Holman was getting $180k, all in. That goes a long way in SLC...

The new coach will be getting far less, is that right?

The reason or reasons for Holman departure is a question I want answered before taking the job.

I glean from previous posts and this article,Utah lacrosse builds toward Division I dream - The Salt Lake Tribune (sltrib.com) ,the current administration doesn’t have the same vision that previous powers and David Neeleman possessed in 2017. I get the vibe that Neeleman saw Utah with its big time facilities and his support being the vanguard to Western expansion finding temporary quarters in the Big East or B1G until other PAC 12 programs upgraded from club status. Utah found a home in the ASUN a conference that consists of Utah, Air Force and four schools with a Forbes financial grade of C minus or lower. With a net worth of 400 million dollars I doubt if he would let the program die on the vine but his vision of a westward expansion faced significant hurdles before the Supreme Court ruling now the future of the NCAA is questioned by some. It’s understandable if his enthusiasm has waned.
You could make the argument that due to recent changes in the collegiate athletic landscape Utah will benchmark lacrosse budgets with its ASUN brethren and concentrate on PAC 12 football. They just did an 80 million dollar upgrade to the football stadium.

According to public records CSU head coach made less than 60K in 2019 and I would think RoMo, Bellarmine and DMU are probably within same ‘ hood. Then again I could be wrong
https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php? ... type=CMSID
https://kutv.com/features/person-2-pers ... n-lacrosse

good input...but any coach in that position 4 years ago is an idiot if he thought Title IX is somehow going to poof, disappear regardless of any impending Supreme Court ruling. Title IX and college sports economics combine to ensure that Men's D1 lacrosse grows at a snail's pace at best.

https://www.sltrib.com/sports/utah-utes ... rlan-says/

[NElaxtalent]

https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 38529?s=19

[Farfromgeneva]

https://twitter.com/Chris_Jast/status/1 ... 38529?s=19

I think either one would be a very good selection. Would
Probably skew towards Sheridan but that’s just me.

[redfoxalum]

Chris is now reporting that Thompson is not having an on campus interview. Continue to believe that Sheridan is an ideal fit and would do very well at Utah.

[ggait]

Sheridan makes a lot of sense given his western ties -- CA, CO, DU, Denver Outlaws, Tierney family.

The other guy with extensive western ties is Jason Lamb -- BYU (alumni and long time coach), Colorado Mesa, Adams State, Denver Outlaws, Notre Dame, now at D3 Southern Virginia.

Unless you want to move west because you are a powder skiing nut or LDS, I wouldn't think that many (any?) east coast oriented mlax coaches would be much interested in relocating their family to SLC. Nice place to live. But if it doesn't work out (and fyi your predecessor only lasted 3 seasons), your next job opportunity will be thousands of miles away.

Presumably Matt Brown is willing to wait 2.5 more years to take over at DU?

[Farfromgeneva]

Sheridan makes a lot of sense given his western ties -- CA, CO, DU, Denver Outlaws, Tierney family.

The other guy with extensive western ties is Jason Lamb -- BYU (alumni and long time coach), Colorado Mesa, Adams State, Denver Outlaws, Notre Dame, now at D3 Southern Virginia.

Unless you want to move west because you are a powder skiing nut or LDS, I wouldn't think that many (any?) east coast oriented mlax coaches would be much interested in relocating their family to SLC. Nice place to live. But if it doesn't work out (and fyi your predecessor only lasted 3 seasons), your next job opportunity will be thousands of miles away.

Presumably Matt Brown is willing to wait 2.5 more years to take over at DU?

With so few jobs and likely to decrease over increase probably next 5-10yrs I’d think of your goal is to coach D1 lacrosse you go where the opportunity is. Or am I now talking like my pre boomer (41&45 guess mom was a boomer) parents?

[wgdsr]

Chris is now reporting that Thompson is not having an on campus interview. Continue to believe that Sheridan is an ideal fit and would do very well at Utah.

it'd be interesting to know the real skinny on why holman bounced/was bounced. would probably go a long way to knowing the upside there.

on its face, a great job, imo.

[ggait]

I guess any D1 job is a good job, considering how few of those jobs there are. But from my perch out here in the west, I'm not really seeing it.

HS kids from here in Colorado go out of state for college in huge numbers. Many go to the other Pac 12 schools outside of Colorado. I know kids who have gone to UW, ASU, UA, UO, Cal, UCLA, USC. Not many go to Stanford (obvi) but it is the number 1 dream school. I don't think I know a single kid who went to Utah.

My understanding is that Utah is largely a commuter school, 75% in-state enrollment, with 50+% of the kids raised in LDS families. Not close to anyplace other than SLC -- 8 hour drive to Denver; 10.5 to Phoenix, 11 to LA; 12 to San Diego, 12 to San Fran. So even if mom/dad live in the west, they are boarding a plane to come see Junior play. Even more isolated lax-wise -- its conference "rivals" are Cleveland State, Robert Morris, Air Force, Detroit Mercy and Bellarmine. That's a pretty random bunch.

Since D1 college mlaxers aren't going to be skiing, I guess the appeal is just (i) any D1 lax roster spot is a D1 lax roster spot, and (ii) tuition is pretty low.

Given reports of flagging institutional interest/support/funding, seems like a pretty tough sell to most potential recruits and coaches. But that's just me.

[sipecoth]

Sheridan makes a lot of sense given his western ties -- CA, CO, DU, Denver Outlaws, Tierney family.

The other guy with extensive western ties is Jason Lamb -- BYU (alumni and long time coach), Colorado Mesa, Adams State, Denver Outlaws, Notre Dame, now at D3 Southern Virginia.

Unless you want to move west because you are a powder skiing nut or LDS, I wouldn't think that many (any?) east coast oriented mlax coaches would be much interested in relocating their family to SLC. Nice place to live. But if it doesn't work out (and fyi your predecessor only lasted 3 seasons), your next job opportunity will be thousands of miles away.

Presumably Matt Brown is willing to wait 2.5 more years to take over at DU?

The Utes are probably looking to make some sort of splash with a big name hire, but it's going to be hard this late in the game with school starting like next week. From what I can gather, the high profile D1 assistants are not running to this job for whatever combination of reasons.

My guess is that Utah doesn't want an East Coast guy looking to have some success and then head back home. Although it did work out for them to have Urban Meyer for a few years before he moved on.

I don't know much about Sheridan, so can't really opine on how well he would do. He does have D1 experience as an assistant and several years as a head coach at Cleveland St.

Lamb would be a good fit...has lived in Utah, knows the community, has AD experience, has coached in both MLL and PLL. The only thing he doesn't have is a bunch of D1 experience as an assistant.

[sipecoth]

I guess any D1 job is a good job, considering how few of those jobs there are. But from my perch out here in the west, I'm not really seeing it.

HS kids from here in Colorado go out of state for college in huge numbers. Many go to the other Pac 12 schools outside of Colorado. I know kids who have gone to UW, ASU, UA, UO, Cal, UCLA, USC. Not many go to Stanford (obvi) but it is the number 1 dream school. I don't think I know a single kid who went to Utah.

My understanding is that Utah is largely a commuter school, 75% in-state enrollment, with 50+% of the kids raised in LDS families. Not close to anyplace other than SLC -- 8 hour drive to Denver; 10.5 to Phoenix, 11 to LA; 12 to San Diego, 12 to San Fran. So even if mom/dad live in the west, they are boarding a plane to come see Junior play. Even more isolated lax-wise -- its conference "rivals" are Cleveland State, Robert Morris, Air Force, Detroit Mercy and Bellarmine. That's a pretty random bunch.

Since D1 college mlaxers aren't going to be skiing, I guess the appeal is just (i) any D1 lax roster spot is a D1 lax roster spot, and (ii) tuition is pretty low.

Given reports of flagging institutional interest/support/funding, seems like a pretty tough sell to most potential recruits and coaches. But that's just me.

Utah has historically been a commuter school, dominated by local kids from Salt Lake. Now they are in the Pac 12, that has changed and more kids are going there. 4 of my son's friends went there from Nor Cal, and none of them are LDS.

The location is actually more favorable than Denver, as it is within driving distance of all the places you mentioned. Denver is not. The flight from San Francisco to SLC is less than 2 hours, and not too expensive (even these days).

So the pitch with Utah is that you can go there, play lacrosse at a Pac 12 school with really beautiful facilities. Now that they are in a conference (huge issue before) there is an AQ as of 2022, so there's more to play for. Salt Lake is a nice city...small enough to be accessible, but big enough to have most of the stuff you would want. Their business school is excellent, as is anything related to medicine.

As to flagging interest/support/funding that people are talking about, that is based partially on Holman's departure. I think the school is just as interested as they were before, but it seems that Holman's approach and their approach were diverging.

It will be super interesting to see how the process plays out.

[Farfromgeneva]

I think SLC is being downplayed. Nice town. Folks may be under appreciating the skiing aspect if you grew up in the NE screwing around a Jay Peak, Killington, Hunter, etc let alone real garbage like Greek Peak, Bristol, Poconos or Berkshire/Jiminy Peak area. It also has a nice little tech sector up in the Provo area that’s not far away. I know from financing a former McAfee (or another antivirus company it’s been like a decade) campus a number of years back that was backfilled by some very good smaller tech businesses. Don’t know the university but I have to believe the Pac12 inclusion changes the student profile away from commuter which I think of much more like a Cleve St than a Utah.