Shot Clock to reset to 60 seconds

[MDlaxfan76]

Is 2010 two years ago?

No, but the shot clock didn't come up out of thin air two years ago.

My point was more that the shot clock is the evolution of about 8 years of "pace of play" rules that culminated in the logical adaptation of a physical shot clock. Goal was to take the call out of the official's discretion, as there were huge differences (even within a crew) as to what constituted stalling. Some rules we rattled through were getting rid of sideline horns, get it in/keep it in stall, 30 second stall, timeout rules, lengthening/shortening of sub box and I'm sure a few others that I'm not remembering. All within the time I was coaching at the college level.

This has been an ongoing conversation for a decade and 2010/2011 seasons were the peak slow-down/stall lacrosse.

Who said it did? There has been almost constant fundamental rule changes in lacrosse. Remember the year of no faceoffs? Look at the PLL game and this 6v6. I just don’t understand why. In the end, viewership isn’t changing. We get bumped for softball….beach volleyball would draw far more viewers….this is a legitimate question…do you know how Lingerie Football drew a tv audience versus a normal weekly college lacrosse game?

well...you do have go back 42 years to get to the year with FO's only at quarters. 1979.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Is 2010 two years ago?

No, but the shot clock didn't come up out of thin air two years ago.

My point was more that the shot clock is the evolution of about 8 years of "pace of play" rules that culminated in the logical adaptation of a physical shot clock. Goal was to take the call out of the official's discretion, as there were huge differences (even within a crew) as to what constituted stalling. Some rules we rattled through were getting rid of sideline horns, get it in/keep it in stall, 30 second stall, timeout rules, lengthening/shortening of sub box and I'm sure a few others that I'm not remembering. All within the time I was coaching at the college level.

This has been an ongoing conversation for a decade and 2010/2011 seasons were the peak slow-down/stall lacrosse.

Who said it did? There has been almost constant fundamental rule changes in lacrosse. Remember the year of no faceoffs? Look at the PLL game and this 6v6. I just don’t understand why. In the end, viewership isn’t changing. We get bumped for softball….beach volleyball would draw far more viewers….this is a legitimate question…do you know how Lingerie Football drew a tv audience versus a normal weekly college lacrosse game?

well...you do have go back 42 years to get to the year with FO's only at quarters. 1979.

Yep… and it’s 2021 and we are still fiddling with faceoffs. Hoops did get away from jump balls (mostly).

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/amp/swez ... away/49649

[jersey shore lax]

Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.

Just more tinkering.

Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.

The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.

Soccer/Football has added instant replay and gone from 3 subs to 5 as it returns from pandemic. both are huge changes in the sport. Lacrosse has gone through so many advancement in equipment it has required changes in rules. in the 70's you used to be able to check the ball out of a players stick but that is no longer easy to do so I think the shot clock was needed and the 60 second reset was a smart tinker IMHO.

How has increasing the subs changed the game of soccer fundamentally? I just don’t understand the almost constant changes to lacrosse. My easy answer was to allow no more the 1/2 the ball below the sidewall with these new sticks. Get a ball half red - half white and use it to measure pocket depth. But the game would have been much harder to play and may not have spread as quickly as it has over past 20 years. We should let the men play with a women’s basketball….then you will see some really good shooting!

we are all lax people her so my example would be, imagine lacrosse played 2 45 minute running time halves and no timeouts, the only breaks are for fake injuries and that time gets added back, most games end in ties or one goal margins at the end of 90 minutes if tied they play 30 minutes extra running time (not sudden death) and you are only allowed 3 subs the entire game. now they change it so you can make 5 subs it is a huge change in the game.

[MDlaxfan76]

I don't believe the face off rule changes had anything to do with getting eyes on the TV, how you figure that?

So to the non lacrosse fan, the face off is unquie something no other sport has. Watching 2 guys werstle for the ball for 15 to 25 seconds, then one is able to pop the ball into his stick and run down the field. It is a skill the non lax fan will not appreciate. Having the ball pop out quickly and the wings being involved more understandable.

As much s we all love the sport, it doesn't havethe fan base watching on TV. The average PLL game gets like 153,000 The NCAA final got 300,000 the average week night baseball game is over 1,000,000 anad a football game gets 14,000,000. They are goig to tweak the game to get the numbers up.

So a ref filps a 20 second timer on change of possession and the shot clock starts at the crossing of the midfield. That is understandable to a non lax fan, moves the game along and keeps it under 2 hours for TV.

Most rule changes aren't for us who know the game, its for those who don't.

As a pretty knowledgeable lacrosse fan, I was in favor of doing something with FO's in light of the changes in stick technology. Seemed to me the "if you ain't cheating, you ain't trying" philosophy had gotten out of hand.

So far, I like the impact...and it's not as if we don't see some marvelous plays made by FOGO's winning the ball to themselves for a fast break, one of the most exciting plays in our sport, IMO.

I think we who actually know the game deeply are far more conscious of the changes that are made than most fans are...how many of us know about the changes that actually have been made in baseball? I reckon we'd typically have some difficulty coming up with many, yet there's been all sorts over the years. And will continue to be.

(And yeah, I'm sorry, but soccer really would be better without the flopping issue. If someone wants to actually explain why not, have at it.)

The timing rules have made the challenge of refereeing way more straightforward, less subjective. This additional change makes sense, should have been how they did it in the first place IMO.

And note, I'm not in any way talking about appealing to potential viewers...just those of us who appreciate the fast pace of play and prowess of the players in our sport.

[MDlaxfan76]

Is 2010 two years ago?

No, but the shot clock didn't come up out of thin air two years ago.

My point was more that the shot clock is the evolution of about 8 years of "pace of play" rules that culminated in the logical adaptation of a physical shot clock. Goal was to take the call out of the official's discretion, as there were huge differences (even within a crew) as to what constituted stalling. Some rules we rattled through were getting rid of sideline horns, get it in/keep it in stall, 30 second stall, timeout rules, lengthening/shortening of sub box and I'm sure a few others that I'm not remembering. All within the time I was coaching at the college level.

This has been an ongoing conversation for a decade and 2010/2011 seasons were the peak slow-down/stall lacrosse.

Who said it did? There has been almost constant fundamental rule changes in lacrosse. Remember the year of no faceoffs? Look at the PLL game and this 6v6. I just don’t understand why. In the end, viewership isn’t changing. We get bumped for softball….beach volleyball would draw far more viewers….this is a legitimate question…do you know how Lingerie Football drew a tv audience versus a normal weekly college lacrosse game?

well...you do have go back 42 years to get to the year with FO's only at quarters. 1979.

Yep… and it’s 2021 and we are still fiddling with faceoffs. Hoops did get away from jump balls (mostly).

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/amp/swez ... away/49649

Yup, we could get more poles on the field.

[PulpExposure]

Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.

Just more tinkering.

Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.

The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.

Soccer/Football has added instant replay and gone from 3 subs to 5 as it returns from pandemic. both are huge changes in the sport. Lacrosse has gone through so many advancement in equipment it has required changes in rules. in the 70's you used to be able to check the ball out of a players stick but that is no longer easy to do so I think the shot clock was needed and the 60 second reset was a smart tinker IMHO.

How has increasing the subs changed the game of soccer fundamentally? I just don’t understand the almost constant changes to lacrosse. My easy answer was to allow no more the 1/2 the ball below the sidewall with these new sticks. Get a ball half red - half white and use it to measure pocket depth. But the game would have been much harder to play and may not have spread as quickly as it has over past 20 years. We should let the men play with a women’s basketball….then you will see some really good shooting!

we are all lax people her so my example would be, imagine lacrosse played 2 45 minute running time halves and no timeouts, the only breaks are for fake injuries and that time gets added back, most games end in ties or one goal margins at the end of 90 minutes if tied they play 30 minutes extra running time (not sudden death) and you are only allowed 3 subs the entire game. now they change it so you can make 5 subs it is a huge change in the game.

Was just writing this. It's a major change. In the entire game, you were only allowed to sub off 3 players total. Usually kept 1 in hand in case your goalie got injured or got a red card. Most players had to play, and run, the entire game...which if it went to overtime, could be 120 minutes of actual game time. Which happens in international play a lot - 4 games in the playoffs ran full 120 minutes, including 2 of the final 3 (one of the semis, and the final).

By doubling who you can sub in and out, it was a major change to the game.

[wgdsr]

Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.

Just more tinkering.

Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.

The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.

Soccer/Football has added instant replay and gone from 3 subs to 5 as it returns from pandemic. both are huge changes in the sport. Lacrosse has gone through so many advancement in equipment it has required changes in rules. in the 70's you used to be able to check the ball out of a players stick but that is no longer easy to do so I think the shot clock was needed and the 60 second reset was a smart tinker IMHO.

How has increasing the subs changed the game of soccer fundamentally? I just don’t understand the almost constant changes to lacrosse. My easy answer was to allow no more the 1/2 the ball below the sidewall with these new sticks. Get a ball half red - half white and use it to measure pocket depth. But the game would have been much harder to play and may not have spread as quickly as it has over past 20 years. We should let the men play with a women’s basketball….then you will see some really good shooting!

we are all lax people her so my example would be, imagine lacrosse played 2 45 minute running time halves and no timeouts, the only breaks are for fake injuries and that time gets added back, most games end in ties or one goal margins at the end of 90 minutes if tied they play 30 minutes extra running time (not sudden death) and you are only allowed 3 subs the entire game. now they change it so you can make 5 subs it is a huge change in the game.

Was just writing this. It's a major change. In the entire game, you were only allowed to sub off 3 players total. Usually kept 1 in hand in case your goalie got injured or got a red card. Most players had to play, and run, the entire game...which if it went to overtime, could be 120 minutes of actual game time. Which happens in international play a lot - 4 games in the playoffs ran full 120 minutes, including 2 of the final 3 (one of the semis, and the final).

By doubling who you can sub in and out, it was a major change to the game.

all the subs you want, on the fly.
play around anyone down for the count after a 15 second var confirmation on feigned injury.
have an actual clock running in extra time at least, subject to 15 second stoppages above.
no offsides.
larger goals experimented in lower leagues.
sudden death in ot.
take one player off the field in ot every 10 minutes, no time limit.

edit: forgot, all pk's for penalties other than clear path takedowns are from the 18.

also, option for possessing team to take inbounds kick on endline where it went out or @ corner.

[stupefied]

Any suggestions for baseball other than juicing up the ball again?

[wgdsr]

Any suggestions for baseball other than juicing up the ball again?

baseball's doomed, can't help there. society and our attention span has moved on. not in a couple years or 10, but once generations start dying.

there are several passionate fan bases that are there and there's not much to do in large swaths of the country, but it's tough to see the more recent generations carrying the torch.

won't disappear if they manage the slide. for now, money for everybody at the top!

[Pinchnpop]

Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.

Just more tinkering.

Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.

The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.

Soccer/Football has added instant replay and gone from 3 subs to 5 as it returns from pandemic. both are huge changes in the sport. Lacrosse has gone through so many advancement in equipment it has required changes in rules. in the 70's you used to be able to check the ball out of a players stick but that is no longer easy to do so I think the shot clock was needed and the 60 second reset was a smart tinker IMHO.

How has increasing the subs changed the game of soccer fundamentally? I just don’t understand the almost constant changes to lacrosse. My easy answer was to allow no more the 1/2 the ball below the sidewall with these new sticks. Get a ball half red - half white and use it to measure pocket depth. But the game would have been much harder to play and may not have spread as quickly as it has over past 20 years. We should let the men play with a women’s basketball….then you will see some really good shooting!

we are all lax people her so my example would be, imagine lacrosse played 2 45 minute running time halves and no timeouts, the only breaks are for fake injuries and that time gets added back, most games end in ties or one goal margins at the end of 90 minutes if tied they play 30 minutes extra running time (not sudden death) and you are only allowed 3 subs the entire game. now they change it so you can make 5 subs it is a huge change in the game.

So rugby with a stick and a small ball? Why wear pads? And the winner gets the losers women? Let's use uprights instead of goals also. A place to hang the injured.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.

Just more tinkering.

Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.

The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.

Soccer/Football has added instant replay and gone from 3 subs to 5 as it returns from pandemic. both are huge changes in the sport. Lacrosse has gone through so many advancement in equipment it has required changes in rules. in the 70's you used to be able to check the ball out of a players stick but that is no longer easy to do so I think the shot clock was needed and the 60 second reset was a smart tinker IMHO.

How has increasing the subs changed the game of soccer fundamentally? I just don’t understand the almost constant changes to lacrosse. My easy answer was to allow no more the 1/2 the ball below the sidewall with these new sticks. Get a ball half red - half white and use it to measure pocket depth. But the game would have been much harder to play and may not have spread as quickly as it has over past 20 years. We should let the men play with a women’s basketball….then you will see some really good shooting!

we are all lax people her so my example would be, imagine lacrosse played 2 45 minute running time halves and no timeouts, the only breaks are for fake injuries and that time gets added back, most games end in ties or one goal margins at the end of 90 minutes if tied they play 30 minutes extra running time (not sudden death) and you are only allowed 3 subs the entire game. now they change it so you can make 5 subs it is a huge change in the game.

Get rid of the offset head or cut down the pocket depth and you may be on to something! I am actually interested in how you believe the game of soccer is fundamentally changed by the substitution rule. College soccer has far more liberal substitution rules.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Beginning in the 2021-22 academic year, the shot clock in men's @NCAALAX will reset to 60 seconds when the offensive team retains possession after taking a valid shot and in other specific situations in the offensive half of the field.

Just more tinkering.

Just tweaking it to the way it should have been to begin with.

The game has been around for how long? I just don’t understand the need for the constant tinkering. Friends and family will always watch it and it won’t ever be much more than that. What was the last “rule change” in soccer? We should put baseball on a clock.

Soccer/Football has added instant replay and gone from 3 subs to 5 as it returns from pandemic. both are huge changes in the sport. Lacrosse has gone through so many advancement in equipment it has required changes in rules. in the 70's you used to be able to check the ball out of a players stick but that is no longer easy to do so I think the shot clock was needed and the 60 second reset was a smart tinker IMHO.

How has increasing the subs changed the game of soccer fundamentally? I just don’t understand the almost constant changes to lacrosse. My easy answer was to allow no more the 1/2 the ball below the sidewall with these new sticks. Get a ball half red - half white and use it to measure pocket depth. But the game would have been much harder to play and may not have spread as quickly as it has over past 20 years. We should let the men play with a women’s basketball….then you will see some really good shooting!

we are all lax people her so my example would be, imagine lacrosse played 2 45 minute running time halves and no timeouts, the only breaks are for fake injuries and that time gets added back, most games end in ties or one goal margins at the end of 90 minutes if tied they play 30 minutes extra running time (not sudden death) and you are only allowed 3 subs the entire game. now they change it so you can make 5 subs it is a huge change in the game.

Was just writing this. It's a major change. In the entire game, you were only allowed to sub off 3 players total. Usually kept 1 in hand in case your goalie got injured or got a red card. Most players had to play, and run, the entire game...which if it went to overtime, could be 120 minutes of actual game time. Which happens in international play a lot - 4 games in the playoffs ran full 120 minutes, including 2 of the final 3 (one of the semis, and the final).

By doubling who you can sub in and out, it was a major change to the game.

In what way is Pep managing the game differently? Is American League and National League baseball fundamentally different (fundamentally is the operative word)? I prefer National League baseball but the games are fundamentally the same.

[Typical Lax Dad]

With 5 subs instead of 3, everyone is playing high pressure in soccer now.

[MDlaxfan76]

With 5 subs instead of 3, everyone is playing high pressure in soccer now.

Sounds like a higher paced game...is that right?

[Typical Lax Dad]

With 5 subs instead of 3, everyone is playing high pressure in soccer now.

Sounds like a higher paced game...is that right?

I was being facetious. Anyone watch England vs Italy? 11 men behind the ball for 87 minutes wasn’t going to get it done….don’t care if you had 10 subs…..

One of the “selling points” of USA Academy Soccer was that kids would develop better if there was a no re-entry rule and only 3 subs…. Well nothing about the game itself changed other than who didn’t get in the game and was wasted on the bench…..also, our international performance actually slipped. The academy system eventually tanked. The only thing I give the system credit for is making more kids realize if they really want to develop, they have to go abroad…..many have done it but results have been mixed. My son’s club team played against Pulisic’s club when Pulisic was playing 2 years up. He had an unconventional path. So did Clint Dempsey.

[jersey shore lax]

[/quote]


we are all lax people her so my example would be, imagine lacrosse played 2 45 minute running time halves and no timeouts, the only breaks are for fake injuries and that time gets added back, most games end in ties or one goal margins at the end of 90 minutes if tied they play 30 minutes extra running time (not sudden death) and you are only allowed 3 subs the entire game. now they change it so you can make 5 subs it is a huge change in the game.
[/quote]

So rugby with a stick and a small ball? Why wear pads? And the winner gets the losers women? Let's use uprights instead of goals also. A place to hang the injured.
[/quote]

I said "Imagine" as a way of explaining why going from 3 to 5 subs in soccer is a big change not that I think it should happen in lacrosse.

[CU77]

Soccer is reverting to 3 subs in September. It was changed only because of covid.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Soccer is reverting to 3 subs in September. It was changed only because of covid.

And it didn’t really fundamentally change the game. Its not like the six yard box was removed, or you now have to sub on the fly through a box, or the PK spot was moved closed…or the penalty box was shrunk. Or a possession clock was installed, or an over and back rule was implemented…..but you can go from 3 subs to 5 and it changed the game.

I like both sports but as long as I have been following lacrosse there has been this almost constant tinkering. And the game isn’t as good as it was in the late 1980’s. Stick technology has much to do with it and that is an easy fix. Legislate shorter pocket depth. Game will be too hard to play….that’s why nothing has been done about it.