Race in America - Riots Explode in Chicago

[jhu72]

a fan: Jefferson is not perfect, so screwge him; (you forgot he masturbated once too). a fan says off with his head, the big head!

What are you seeking a fan, besides bs excuses for the DNC mob to tear down history? Do you need perfection? Should we just do away with beauty? Should we let the mob dictate public discourse? Seems so for you.

Nope. As usual, you don't read a single word your fellow posters write. Not one.

Show me where I said one word about wanting Jefferson torn down. Go ahead. I'll wait.

(pssst. I said no such thing)


All I did was tell you what, factually, Jefferson actually did. We have his work in writing, Pete.

And what is your reaction to this news? You don't want to hear it. Jefferson is perfect.

Thomas Jefferson wrote and signed the Declaration of Independence, Became President of the United States, Founded the University of Virginia, designed and built Monticello, was Ambassador to France and made the Louisiana Purchase doubling the size of the United States. You?

You prefer to think of him instead as his weakest alleged flaw.

… which flaw was his alleged weakest?

that's he's white - nothing alleged here, FACT he is white, no one has said that is a flaw

that he owned property - nothing alleged here, he owned property, that property being slaves is certainly viewed as a flaw

that he slept with one of his slaves - nothing alleged here, he did sleep with a female slave and impregnated her at least 7 times is viewed as a flaw by some and not by others, in fact I am sure some Americans actually find it to be a love story

or whatever evil you sthink of when you hear his name. Because we all know you're superior

I believe previously you claimed Jefferson "raped" Hemmings.

I claimed.

And HE did.

A teenaged female slave cannot in any way “consent” to sexual relations with her owner.

DocBarrister

… such activity however was not prohibited by law in Virginia of 1790 and certainly not Paris in the same era. If it occurred today, it would certainly be rape in a number of (perhaps all) states. He was also ~40 years older than her at the time. Certainly well outside societal norms except for the elites of the time.

[jhu72]

es - he was what he was, a man of his times, a flawed human being.

and you're not?

At least Jefferson had some major positive things in his life.

… so do I. I will stack my accomplishments up against yours any day.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

[jhu72]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

even facts are often in dispute these days...

[jhu72]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

even facts are often in dispute these days...

… its pretty clear acknowledging Jefferson's flaws causes some folks to get their panties in a bunch.

[Cooter]

es - he was what he was, a man of his times, a flawed human being.

and you're not?

At least Jefferson had some major positive things in his life.

… so do I. I will stack my accomplishments up against yours any day.

What about your flaws?

[Typical Lax Dad]

If you support BLM but not police, normals would really prefer you vote strictly for Democrats, and please shout out your allegiances.

Where is your nuance Bandito?

No human with even an ounce of pride can align with the left any longer. Read this article on the cancel culture of the woke Taliban left to see how utterly chaotic and ruinous their philosophy is:

https://quillette.com/2020/07/09/it-was ... it-happen/

The left is America’s enemy.

Natural causes:

After George Floyd repeatedly told police that he couldn't breathe, former Minneapolis police Officer Derek Chauvin said, "Then stop talking, stop yelling, it takes a heck of a lot of oxygen to talk," according to transcripts of police body camera footage.

[DocBarrister]

I believe previously you claimed Jefferson "raped" Hemmings.

I claimed.

And HE did.

A teenaged female slave cannot in any way “consent” to sexual relations with her owner.

DocBarrister

… such activity however was not prohibited by law in Virginia of 1790 and certainly not Paris in the same era. If it occurred today, it would certainly be rape in a number of (perhaps all) states. He was also ~40 years older than her at the time. Certainly well outside societal norms except for the elites of the time.

That is not relevant. Rape is malum in se (evil in itself), not malum prohibitum (wrong only because it is prohibited). Rape is a morally criminal act whether or not it is prohibited by law.

There is also no defense in asserting Jefferson was merely a man of his time. There were plenty of his peers who supported the abolishment of slavery. John Adams for one. Ben Franklin once owned slaves, but eventually freed them and urged the banning of slavery in America. About half of the people of the United States opposed slavery during Jefferson’s lifetime.

Thomas Jefferson was a rapist. There’s no reason we can’t acknowledge that undeniable fact while considering the entirety of Jefferson’s legacy as a slave owner and Founding Father of this nation.

DocBarrister

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

even facts are often in dispute these days...

… its pretty clear acknowledging Jefferson's flaws causes some folks to get their panties in a bunch.

grant too.

[old salt]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

even facts are often in dispute these days...

… its pretty clear acknowledging Jefferson's flaws causes some folks to get their panties in a bunch.

grant too.

The mental gymnastics used to separate our slave holding founding fathers from their Confederates successor are impressive.
They were all white male slave owners, exploiting land taken from native peoples, & revolting against governments they felt were repressing them economically. The winners were far sighted, enlightened patriots, the losers were evil traitors. Okie dokie.
At least my favorite statue is safe.

[jhu72]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

even facts are often in dispute these days...

… its pretty clear acknowledging Jefferson's flaws causes some folks to get their panties in a bunch.

grant too.

The mental gymnastics used to separate our slave holding founding fathers from their Confederates successor are impressive.
They were all white male slave owners, exploiting land taken from native peoples, & revolting against governments they felt were repressing them economically. The winners were far sighted, enlightened patriots, the losers were evil traitors. Okie dokie.
At least my favorite statue is safe.

.. what you think Native Americans didn't hold slaves?

[DocBarrister]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

even facts are often in dispute these days...

… its pretty clear acknowledging Jefferson's flaws causes some folks to get their panties in a bunch.

grant too.

The mental gymnastics used to separate our slave holding founding fathers from their Confederates successor are impressive.
They were all white male slave owners, exploiting land taken from native peoples, & revolting against governments they felt were repressing them economically. The winners were far sighted, enlightened patriots, the losers were evil traitors. Okie dokie.
At least my favorite statue is safe.

As usual, you completely miss the big picture.

The Revolutionary War was not fought to preserve slavery. The United States was not formed to preserve slavery.

In contrast, the Confederacy was formed to preserve slavery. The Confederacy started the Civil War to preserve slavery.

THAT difference is what matters.

DocBarrister

[ChairmanOfTheBoard]

so grant is in, or out?

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://twitter.com/stancollymore/statu ... 22880?s=21

[Cooter]

I believe previously you claimed Jefferson "raped" Hemmings.

I claimed.

And HE did.

A teenaged female slave cannot in any way “consent” to sexual relations with her owner.

DocBarrister

… such activity however was not prohibited by law in Virginia of 1790 and certainly not Paris in the same era. If it occurred today, it would certainly be rape in a number of (perhaps all) states. He was also ~40 years older than her at the time. Certainly well outside societal norms except for the elites of the time.

That is not relevant. Rape is malum in se (evil in itself), not malum prohibitum (wrong only because it is prohibited). Rape is a morally criminal act whether or not it is prohibited by law.

There is also no defense in asserting Jefferson was merely a man of his time. There were plenty of his peers who supported the abolishment of slavery. John Adams for one. Ben Franklin once owned slaves, but eventually freed them and urged the banning of slavery in America. About half of the people of the United States opposed slavery during Jefferson’s lifetime.

Thomas Jefferson was a rapist. There’s no reason we can’t acknowledge that undeniable fact while considering the entirety of Jefferson’s legacy as a slave owner and Founding Father of this nation.

DocBarrister

You seem to be talking about statutory rape, in a time when there was perhaps no statute.

[jhu72]

I believe previously you claimed Jefferson "raped" Hemmings.

I claimed.

And HE did.

A teenaged female slave cannot in any way “consent” to sexual relations with her owner.

DocBarrister

… such activity however was not prohibited by law in Virginia of 1790 and certainly not Paris in the same era. If it occurred today, it would certainly be rape in a number of (perhaps all) states. He was also ~40 years older than her at the time. Certainly well outside societal norms except for the elites of the time.

That is not relevant. Rape is malum in se (evil in itself), not malum prohibitum (wrong only because it is prohibited). Rape is a morally criminal act whether or not it is prohibited by law.

There is also no defense in asserting Jefferson was merely a man of his time. There were plenty of his peers who supported the abolishment of slavery. John Adams for one. Ben Franklin once owned slaves, but eventually freed them and urged the banning of slavery in America. About half of the people of the United States opposed slavery during Jefferson’s lifetime.

Thomas Jefferson was a rapist. There’s no reason we can’t acknowledge that undeniable fact while considering the entirety of Jefferson’s legacy as a slave owner and Founding Father of this nation.

DocBarrister

.. I know of no evidence that Jefferson penetrated Sally without her permission. The best you have for rape is her age and the laws of statutory rape. The argument that she wasn't old enough to give consent when there is no or a low age limit for consent is pretty shaky. Exactly what age would that be in 1790?

[DocBarrister]

I believe previously you claimed Jefferson "raped" Hemmings.

I claimed.

And HE did.

A teenaged female slave cannot in any way “consent” to sexual relations with her owner.

DocBarrister

… such activity however was not prohibited by law in Virginia of 1790 and certainly not Paris in the same era. If it occurred today, it would certainly be rape in a number of (perhaps all) states. He was also ~40 years older than her at the time. Certainly well outside societal norms except for the elites of the time.

That is not relevant. Rape is malum in se (evil in itself), not malum prohibitum (wrong only because it is prohibited). Rape is a morally criminal act whether or not it is prohibited by law.

There is also no defense in asserting Jefferson was merely a man of his time. There were plenty of his peers who supported the abolishment of slavery. John Adams for one. Ben Franklin once owned slaves, but eventually freed them and urged the banning of slavery in America. About half of the people of the United States opposed slavery during Jefferson’s lifetime.

Thomas Jefferson was a rapist. There’s no reason we can’t acknowledge that undeniable fact while considering the entirety of Jefferson’s legacy as a slave owner and Founding Father of this nation.

DocBarrister

You seem to be talking about statutory rape, in a time when there was perhaps no statute.

No.

I am talking about sex without consent.

Rape.

DocBarrister

[jhu72]

forget that TJ may have been a rapist. he was a racist slaveowner. humans in bondage. forget the year. it's reprehensible.

arguments against???

we are all the same. (TJ didnt think so)

here's one in support of the above theory- ibram kendi defines antiracist: https://www.penguin.co.uk/articles/2020 ... ntiracist/

An antiracist idea is any idea that suggests the racial groups are equals in all their apparent differences—that there is nothing right or wrong with any racial group. Antiracist ideas argue that racist policies are the cause of racial inequities.

g'head. tell ibram he's wrong.

… that gets no argument from me - FACT - he was a slaveowner.

even facts are often in dispute these days...

… its pretty clear acknowledging Jefferson's flaws causes some folks to get their panties in a bunch.

grant too.

The mental gymnastics used to separate our slave holding founding fathers from their Confederates successor are impressive.
They were all white male slave owners, exploiting land taken from native peoples, & revolting against governments they felt were repressing them economically. The winners were far sighted, enlightened patriots, the losers were evil traitors. Okie dokie.
At least my favorite statue is safe.

.. what you think Native Americans didn't hold slaves?

… it just occurred to me, he was an enemy combatant. Someone might have a problem with that.

[jhu72]

I believe previously you claimed Jefferson "raped" Hemmings.

I claimed.

And HE did.

A teenaged female slave cannot in any way “consent” to sexual relations with her owner.

DocBarrister

… such activity however was not prohibited by law in Virginia of 1790 and certainly not Paris in the same era. If it occurred today, it would certainly be rape in a number of (perhaps all) states. He was also ~40 years older than her at the time. Certainly well outside societal norms except for the elites of the time.

That is not relevant. Rape is malum in se (evil in itself), not malum prohibitum (wrong only because it is prohibited). Rape is a morally criminal act whether or not it is prohibited by law.

There is also no defense in asserting Jefferson was merely a man of his time. There were plenty of his peers who supported the abolishment of slavery. John Adams for one. Ben Franklin once owned slaves, but eventually freed them and urged the banning of slavery in America. About half of the people of the United States opposed slavery during Jefferson’s lifetime.

Thomas Jefferson was a rapist. There’s no reason we can’t acknowledge that undeniable fact while considering the entirety of Jefferson’s legacy as a slave owner and Founding Father of this nation.

DocBarrister

You seem to be talking about statutory rape, in a time when there was perhaps no statute.

No.

I am talking about sex without consent.

Rape.

DocBarrister

… what is your evidence? I know of none.