All things CoronaVirus

[njbill]

Re cruise lines: many are based in Florida so Trump’s concern is with Florida employees/voters.

[Kismet]

They will pass a bill. This reminds of the 2008 bailouts and TARP where they dilllied/dallied/argued for a time as markets sank and they ultimately did it and the markets then rallied. Current markets have to be a near a bottom right now.

[jhu72]

I thought the right wingers on here were making the case that the virus is not a big deal...

You mean a hoax?

[Peter Brown]

I thought the right wingers on here were making the case that the virus is not a big deal...

You mean a hoax?

The virus may not, in hindsight, be as big a deal as we are making it, but for now, money is indeed a huge deal for blue collar workers, restaurant servers, cooks, nannies, and anyone else living paycheck to paycheck. In other words, 75% of Americans.

As the neverTrump and Dems score their gotcha points (cause that's what's important, right?, being petty and dismissive of whole swaths of Americans), real people are feeling real pain.

Give Mnuchin and Geithner the dough. Or Bloomberg. These guys will do fine with it.

(I realize that many Dems are incapable of compromising on this, I am just pointing out the best solution; what may happen without it is martial law, in which case your squad will get absolutely nothing)

[jhu72]

Re cruise lines: many are based in Florida so Trump’s concern is with Florida employees/voters.

Now you have it!

[jhu72]

They will pass a bill. This reminds of the 2008 bailouts and TARP where they dilllied/dallied/argued for a time as markets sank and they ultimately did it and the markets then rallied. Current markets have to be a near a bottom right now.

Yup, they will pass a bill. Don't see the worry. The markets will survive. They went down immediately this AM and pretty much hovered between 300 and 700 down all day. Finished - 580. Whenever they get a bill, they will rebound. Frankly if Trump is going to call an end to the "lockdown" on April 1, what is the point?

[Peter Brown]

Re cruise lines: many are based in Florida so Trump’s concern is with Florida employees/voters.

Now you have it!

"Cruise line employees" (Deck Crew, Cruise Directors, Disc Jockeys, Expedition Leaders, Hosts and Hostesses, Naturalists, Shore Excursion Managers, Water Sports Instructors, Youth Counselors, Cosmetologists, Fitness Directors, Medical Staff, Bartenders, Gift Shop Clerks, Photographers, and about 1000 other positions) = not real people to JHU72 and njbill, just 'Republican voters'.

I'd venture to guess that the breakdown of party identification for cruise ship employees runs about 90% Democrat/10% Republican, on the Republicans best day.

I keep getting told that the Dems are the "smart" ones here?

[CU77]

When you find an article of 100 pages 'compelling', is it the case where you're from that you must by law agree with every sentence and thought?

It's more like 5 pages of text, and 20 pages of oversized charts and graphs (my printer says it's 25 pages in total, including zerohedge.com ads).

But to your question as you don't seem able to move past it:

A growing body of evidence indicates that COVID-19 transmission is facilitated in confined settings; for example, a large cluster (634 confirmed cases) of COVID-19 secondary infections occurred aboard a cruise ship in Japan, representing about one fifth of the persons aboard who were tested for the virus. This finding indicates the high transmissibility of COVID-19 in enclosed spaces

Now where did he get that idea?! Oh yeah, the CDC itself; knock your self out:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0233_article

It's not the CDC data that's at issue, its the conclusion that Ginn draws from it:

The data is overwhelming at this point that community-based spread and airborne transmission is not a threat.

This is simply absurd. Here is a brief takedown of Ginn by someone who has experience analyzing epidemiological data (and thankfully linked by zerohedge):

https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status ... 0559503360

Whether or not you agree with Ginn’s arguments for, say, reopening schools, people like Ginn are asking some important and detailed questions about what we know about the progress of the coronavirus.

No. Ginn is spreading pseudo-analysis that leads to extremely dangerous conclusions.

But it is unhelpful and hazardous to ignore the real, human costs of protracted lockdowns, which will require increasily strong justifications the longer they drag on.

I agree with this. I don't think there is anyone on the planet who disagrees.

Which if you allow yourself to read and not burn books, was his thesis.

No. This was a corollary to Ginn's main thesis, which was that "The data is overwhelming at this point that community-based spread and airborne transmission is not a threat." Which, again, is nonsense.

And if anyone want to read it, here is Ginn's article:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid- ... r-hysteria

[calourie]

I thought the right wingers on here were making the case that the virus is not a big deal...

It's only because of you "hoaxy" leftists that it is the big deal it has become. It will just disappear, and without even resorting to martial law if we just approve the $1.5 trillion bill that I suppose Mitch thinks is a "perfect" (perhaps currently overused adjective) bill.

[jhu72]

Re cruise lines: many are based in Florida so Trump’s concern is with Florida employees/voters.

Now you have it!

"Cruise line employees" (Deck Crew, Cruise Directors, Disc Jockeys, Expedition Leaders, Hosts and Hostesses, Naturalists, Shore Excursion Managers, Water Sports Instructors, Youth Counselors, Cosmetologists, Fitness Directors, Medical Staff, Bartenders, Gift Shop Clerks, Photographers, and about 1000 other positions) = not real people to JHU72 and njbill, just 'Republican voters'.

I'd venture to guess that the breakdown of party identification for cruise ship employees runs about 90% Democrat/10% Republican, on the Republicans best day.

I keep getting told that the Dems are the "smart" ones here?

It's easy, pay the employees unemployment. Help them find jobs when the crises is over. The cruise ships will still be there. Ownership may change. Maybe the next round of owners will do a better job. You guys like kicking the Chinese around for their role in this, but love the Cruise Ship owners. No cognitive disonnance there.

[a fan]

I'd venture to guess that the cruise ship industry has the lowest voter turnout of any industry in America, regardless of party. Do I really have to explain why?

But they do donate to both political parties more than us piddly small businesses. And, like your airline industry, are too dumb to set aside a rainy day fund, even though profits are in the billions.

So yep, let's cut them checks, and let small businesses lucky to make five figures in a year fend for themselves.

[a fan]

They will pass a bill. This reminds of the 2008 bailouts and TARP where they dilllied/dallied/argued for a time as markets sank and they ultimately did it and the markets then rallied. Current markets have to be a near a bottom right now.

Yes. They have no choice. And they can't just bail out their favored donor. If the bottom 50% is broke? Trump and the R's will get KILLED in November.

[Peter Brown]

When you find an article of 100 pages 'compelling', is it the case where you're from that you must by law agree with every sentence and thought?

It's more like 5 pages of text, and 20 pages of oversized charts and graphs (my printer says it's 25 pages in total, including zerohedge.com ads).

But to your question as you don't seem able to move past it:

A growing body of evidence indicates that COVID-19 transmission is facilitated in confined settings; for example, a large cluster (634 confirmed cases) of COVID-19 secondary infections occurred aboard a cruise ship in Japan, representing about one fifth of the persons aboard who were tested for the virus. This finding indicates the high transmissibility of COVID-19 in enclosed spaces

Now where did he get that idea?! Oh yeah, the CDC itself; knock your self out:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0233_article

It's not the CDC data that's at issue, its the conclusion that Ginn draws from it:

The data is overwhelming at this point that community-based spread and airborne transmission is not a threat.

This is simply absurd. Here is a brief takedown of Ginn by someone who has experience analyzing epidemiological data (and thankfully linked by zerohedge):

https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status ... 0559503360

Whether or not you agree with Ginn’s arguments for, say, reopening schools, people like Ginn are asking some important and detailed questions about what we know about the progress of the coronavirus.

No. Ginn is spreading pseudo-analysis that leads to extremely dangerous conclusions.

But it is unhelpful and hazardous to ignore the real, human costs of protracted lockdowns, which will require increasily strong justifications the longer they drag on.

I agree with this. I don't think there is anyone on the planet who disagrees.

Which if you allow yourself to read and not burn books, was his thesis.

No. This was a corollary to Ginn's main thesis, which was that "The data is overwhelming at this point that community-based spread and airborne transmission is not a threat." Which, again, is nonsense.

And if anyone want to read it, here is Ginn's article:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid- ... r-hysteria

CU77, you may not understand this, but I don't really have a dog in this hunt. I thought Ginn's article was stimulating; it made me think. The Left wants it removed from history.

What I actually do care about is when the Left reflexively targets ideas, publications, articles, and even people, simply because that person has postulated something that flies in the face of the Left's preferred outcome.

The Left utilizes the full might of online targeted 'complaints' to gin up algorithms to remove content.

This book-burning mentality is what I'm far more passionate about.

[seacoaster]

When you find an article of 100 pages 'compelling', is it the case where you're from that you must by law agree with every sentence and thought?

It's more like 5 pages of text, and 20 pages of oversized charts and graphs (my printer says it's 25 pages in total, including zerohedge.com ads).

But to your question as you don't seem able to move past it:

A growing body of evidence indicates that COVID-19 transmission is facilitated in confined settings; for example, a large cluster (634 confirmed cases) of COVID-19 secondary infections occurred aboard a cruise ship in Japan, representing about one fifth of the persons aboard who were tested for the virus. This finding indicates the high transmissibility of COVID-19 in enclosed spaces

Now where did he get that idea?! Oh yeah, the CDC itself; knock your self out:

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/6/20-0233_article

It's not the CDC data that's at issue, its the conclusion that Ginn draws from it:

The data is overwhelming at this point that community-based spread and airborne transmission is not a threat.

This is simply absurd. Here is a brief takedown of Ginn by someone who has experience analyzing epidemiological data (and thankfully linked by zerohedge):

https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status ... 0559503360

Whether or not you agree with Ginn’s arguments for, say, reopening schools, people like Ginn are asking some important and detailed questions about what we know about the progress of the coronavirus.

No. Ginn is spreading pseudo-analysis that leads to extremely dangerous conclusions.

But it is unhelpful and hazardous to ignore the real, human costs of protracted lockdowns, which will require increasily strong justifications the longer they drag on.

I agree with this. I don't think there is anyone on the planet who disagrees.

Which if you allow yourself to read and not burn books, was his thesis.

No. This was a corollary to Ginn's main thesis, which was that "The data is overwhelming at this point that community-based spread and airborne transmission is not a threat." Which, again, is nonsense.

And if anyone want to read it, here is Ginn's article:
https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid- ... r-hysteria

Thank you '77. Not sure where you get the energy.

[Peter Brown]

I'd venture to guess that the cruise ship industry has the lowest voter turnout of any industry in America, regardless of party. Do I really have to explain why?

But they do donate to both political parties more than us piddly small businesses. And, like your airline industry, are too dumb to set aside a rainy day fund, even though profits are in the billions.

So yep, let's cut them checks, and let small businesses lucky to make five figures in a year fend for themselves.

We agree on something....

[Peter Brown]

Re cruise lines: many are based in Florida so Trump’s concern is with Florida employees/voters.

Now you have it!

"Cruise line employees" (Deck Crew, Cruise Directors, Disc Jockeys, Expedition Leaders, Hosts and Hostesses, Naturalists, Shore Excursion Managers, Water Sports Instructors, Youth Counselors, Cosmetologists, Fitness Directors, Medical Staff, Bartenders, Gift Shop Clerks, Photographers, and about 1000 other positions) = not real people to JHU72 and njbill, just 'Republican voters'.

I'd venture to guess that the breakdown of party identification for cruise ship employees runs about 90% Democrat/10% Republican, on the Republicans best day.

I keep getting told that the Dems are the "smart" ones here?

It's easy, pay the employees unemployment. Help them find jobs when the crises is over. The cruise ships will still be there. Ownership may change. Maybe the next round of owners will do a better job. You guys like kicking the Chinese around for their role in this, but love the Cruise Ship owners. No cognitive disonnance there.

I don't know why I am defending this industry, because I hate cruise ships, so I hate to break it to you but the cruise industry is a tad more complex than your unemployment solution. Those massive ships don't like to sit idle for extended periods of time; among a million other items on a ship, the engines need to be kept operational at all times unless they are in port for repair. Otherwise, debilitating costs to restart later on.

[Typical Lax Dad]

ummm, martial law is what you do. No other choice.

Sorry to keep harping on this, but this is all on Pelosi and gang. The only way I will take that back is if you can convince me that equitable racial representation on boards, windmills, the postal service, and private union pensions should be part of a Cornoavirus package. I'm always willing to change my mind, so have at it.

You're telling me that you're so stupid that you don't think the Republicans have anything objectionable in a bill that's a few hundred pages long? Not the least of which is the bailout money that's headed to your mismanaged airline industry, or to cruise lines with billions in profits, while my industry gets nothing.

A pox on both the R's and D's. I can't stand Pelosi, never have liked her. But you have now surpassed Bandito as the biggest knee-jerk partisan on the board. No one is dumb enough to think that the R's don't have nonsense in this bill.

But knock yourself out. Tell us how the R's portion of the bill is flawless, and actually helps people, with zero nonsense in it.

PB, Let me know if there is anything that you might find questionable or objectionable in the bill McConnell is so intent on passing. Patti Murray's comments on the withholding of funds for entities that look after women's health issues might be a good place to start. I don't profess to know more about either the "was close to passing in the senate" bill or Pelosi's counter proposal other than the broad sweep relief presentation the former gets, and the specific 4 points in Pelosi proposal that Mitch and a few in here find so objectionable. This is a 1.5 trillion $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ bill and ought to be done correctly as well as expeditiosly. I will leave it to the adults in the room on both sides of the aisle to work it out. In the meantime the adult and sub adults in here will continue to duke it out among ourselves.

Here's my thought: pass the gd bill, let Mnuchin figure out where it goes, and get the gd money in the system. If, after he is done, you think Mnuchin was a scoundrel for wasting or even stealing the dough, then go after him (btw, because I believe in people, he'll do a fine job; heck put Neel Kashkari or Geithner with him and have the two of them figure it out). 2 or 3 smart people can figure it out way better than a bunch of politicians intent on virtue signalling.

Pandemics require speed not precision.

That’s what you were saying about Trump 6 weeks ago.

[calourie]

They will pass a bill. This reminds of the 2008 bailouts and TARP where they dilllied/dallied/argued for a time as markets sank and they ultimately did it and the markets then rallied. Current markets have to be a near a bottom right now.

Yes. They have no choice. And they can't just bail out their favored donor. If the bottom 50% is broke? Trump and the R's will get KILLED in November.

Trump just wants a bill, any bill right now, to calm the markets, and just the whiff of certainty for the immediate future is likely to calm the markets for the short term no matter what bill gets passed. After that it's anybody's guess.

[Trinity]

On the only cruise I ever took the staff seemed like they were from everywhere but the USA.

[Kismet]

On the only cruise I ever took the staff seemed like they were from everywhere but the USA.

None of the ships are registered in the USA anyway. Likely so they don't have to hire Americans or follow those pesky American labor laws. The ships aren't built here either.