The forum rules are little different than lacrosse rules. You can read more within this forum. If you are assessed a penalty, this is the only forum you can post within.
Please post replies (below) to offer thoughts and suggestions with relation to resolving this incident. This is your forum and, as a consequence, you have every right to set the tone of your forum. If no thoughts or suggestions are posted, the incident will be resolved by the Admin.
I guess you have to establish a progressive discipline of some sort.
Content-free, personal attack, and gratuitous like "eat a turd"?
So say this warrants a PM to the poster and a one week vacation from posting on the forum.
Next time? Do we care if there is a long or a short interval between "infractions"? I'd say not.
Use the familiar trinity: three strikes and you're out.
The harder question for me is what to do when a poster says something akin to "you're an a*****e [edited]...." and then goes on to make a contribution that, but for the a*****e [edited] business, would have been perfectly acceptable.
I'l give this some more thought. Just getting a discussion going.
My thinking, for now, is not to set any rules. (When I say "my thinking", I mean the thinking of some shmo in front of keyboard who knows as little as anybody here. This isn't an an authoritative "The Admin thinks...".) I'm unsure about "10 goals then pull the goalie". (There's no way we'll use a baseball metaphor.) Let's take it on a case by case basis and then, metaphorically, after we see where we tend to walk, we'll use past decisions as the template to build a side walk. With this said, I agree. There should be some sort of progressive discipline though, I think if someone has behaved for an extended period of time, they should get some credit for this.
I think a one-week vacation from the forum is pretty severe. But maybe "eat a terd" is more severe than I think it is. (I'll come back to vacations.) My thought is that it's not directed at anyone. It's a general eat a terd which is better than, "Hey Seacoaster! Eat a terd!" Also, in the scale of profanity, i don't think terd is so bad. there are synonyms which are worse. (Just noticed, I think you're right. "tUrd.) Also, there wasn't obvious vindictiveness to the "eat a turd" or any posts that came before it. It could've been just a silly statement.
Back to the vacation, we also have the option of giving a post-er a vacation just from a specific Forum. There are numerous post-ers who are as normal as normal comes in every forum and then they walk into the Politics Forum and they turn into animals. Backstage, we have the option of creating a Group called "No Politics Forum" where every post-er added to this Group is unable to (up to us, see the Politics posts, Post within the Politics Forum, etc.) and then we can add post-ers to this Group. Also, if there's a post-er who is fine except he tends to say synonyms of terd here and there by mistake. When he does this within the Politics Forum, we just need to edit it here and there. Maybe a slap on the wrist or maybe more. But if he does this even once in one of the HS Forums, that's a much bigger problem. So, again, he could be added to the "No HS Forums" Group and not much else.
I think time between infractions is relevant. Especially if someone is making it clear that they don't care about the rules. or the opposite. An honest mistake that happens every 365 days is less bothersome to me.
I think the "you're an a-hole" merits an editing of the post. either an editing like a-***e. or deleting the line completely. i think it depends who is being called the name. i've seen people called worse and then they just step over it. while others are called nothing but there's a tone to the post-ers post and the person is deeply offended. that's a big part of the reason why i set this up. i don't trust my own judgement. but as for the 2nd part of the post, i think for sure we should we leave it. and if the guy goes ballistic and we need to suspend him indefinitely or whatever, we can delete the person and, going forward, his posts would remain intact. the posts would just be accredited to "anonymous". (i think that's what the system does. at some point, i'm sure we'll find out.) but i think the legitimate parts of posts should stay.
thank you for getting the discussion going. as mentioned above. i don't trust myself. but if no one chimes in, what's my choice. so thank you.
Oh, one more thing. Had the thought, i think we should change the function of Hamsterdam. When Hamsterdam-Politics was the same as Politics except the FanLax Ratings Bureau would slap a rated R on a thread and move it to Hamsterdam, Hamsterdam was a legitimate place to have discussions. Currently, with our changing how we're going to treat our threats and post-ers when a thread becomes rated R, Hamsterdam has gone quiet. Currently, no posts in 36 hours. Substantially more in the Politics Forum. i'm not 100% sure but maybe Hamsterdam becomes more of a prison-like forum. A place where people can continue a discussion with a suspended post-er. And, again, just a thought, hamsterdam would be a forum where you need to ask to enter the Forum. So that teens or whatever would have to make an effort to enter the forum with profanity etc. and not just stumble upon it. and we'd be making some sort of effort not to make Hamsterdam just another Forum like every other. Hamsterdam would, like a prison, be set apart.
Which reminds me. I just edited the "a******s" in your post. Obviously I didn't submit an Incident. Your a-***e is similar to when people typed p***y when quoting the POTUS' famous pre-election grabbing quote. The POTUS said "Grab them etc." doesn't merit an incident. the follow up by post-er B repeatedly referring to the POTUS as the p****y-grabbing POTUS is different. though i could be wrong, i think editing profanity is OK but... maybe i'm wrong. my thought is, edit it, and if i'm wrong, we can always change it back.
admin wrote:Which reminds me. I just edited the "a******s" in your post. Obviously I didn't submit an Incident. Your a-***e is similar to when people typed p***y when quoting the POTUS' famous pre-election grabbing quote. The POTUS said "Grab them etc." doesn't merit an incident. the follow up by post-er B repeatedly referring to the POTUS as the p****y-grabbing POTUS is different. though i could be wrong, i think editing profanity is OK but... maybe i'm wrong. my thought is, edit it, and if i'm wrong, we can always change it back.
Yes, I suppose that editing profanity is okay; just wish that all people were civilized enough not to use it in the first place, but, I know, I'm an idealist. However, the "p word" in question could also refer to a cat. Reminds me of a wonderful comedy piece in which George Carlin said, "You can prick your your finger, just don't finger your..."
If i'm hearing you two correctly it sounds like you're advocating for a no profanity Forum. It does make life easier in many ways and there are more tragic things in life than not being able to say, s**t or whatever.
two questions:
1- Shlermie calls Fanno a loser. He could care less. Shlerimie calls me a loser and I'm very bothered by it. Correct me if I'm wrong but the reaction of the, so to speak, victim dictates whether the offense was innocuous or a problem. Yes?
2- What if Shlermie wants to trash UVA lax? LaxPower? For that matter, FanLax? Along the same lines, Lars? Larry? Admin? Organizations and people within these organizations. i feel like people have the right to have opinions, including towards me but... Obviously not everyone feels the same way. Not being able to trash UVA and Lars seems ridiculous within a lacrosse forum. And, if this is the case, why not LaxPower and FanLax?
"I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced within that shorthand description ["hard-core pornography"], and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so. But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."
ADMIN gets to decide and just delete the post. Guy gets really offense, cut him off. We are all grownups, chronologically pretty much I think, and a particular grownup we might all have come to know and possibly not love, knows better. Cut 'em off. Knowing full well of course it is like the monster that will regrow a head. But it makes the majority of the group who are trying to be decent feel better.
For some incidents, it's easy. "F*** that!" I delete or edit it. But i think other incidents are more complicated. for those, i'd prefer input from others. and, for that matter, even for the easy ones, i want transparency. i think it's a good idea for all incidents to be public so, for whatever reason, people can chime in. Or not.
seriously, i'm curious how you'd answer my 2 questions above.
You should be able to comment on a team or coach or frankly anything without making it personal. "He sucks as a coach" "that team can't get their **** together" , "that team spends too much time partying" is all potentially factual. "The coach is a f***ing hag and that's why the team can't function", is entirely different.
Mean-spirited has no place here. It's a technical foul + unnecessary roughness. Penalty should be served and you are the ref.
Seriously, this post helps very much and makes me feel much more comfortable about how we handle this stuff going forward.
1- Mean-ness. I happen to like my lacrosse to be physical and feel strongly that hitting is part of the game and... I know the difference between a great hit and a cheap shot with little other purpose than to hurt the other player. The latter is what we're looking for. unnecessary roughness is a judgment call but that's the call we need to make.
2- For now, I am the ref. For now. And I make the calls. And there might be other refs on the field and, for sure, there are players and coaches who have opinions about whether this or that was or was not a foul. 100%. And, switching a little from lacrosse officiating to soccer officiating, I want a VAR (Video Assistant Referee). Refs make mistakes and i want a team in a room watching the game on video with numerous camera angles to whisper into my ear that A, B, or C happened. And, with some cases, to suggest that i go to the video tape to make sure that I'm making the right call. I'm happy to play referee, for now, but I need a VAR team whispering into my ear. The VAR team being... Everyone in the forum.
Alright. I feel good about the FanLax Rules, etc. Bottomline, little different than how we're expected to behave on the field. Seriously, FannOLax, Seacoaster, thank you.
admin wrote:Alright. I feel good about the FanLax Rules, etc. Bottomline, little different than how we're expected to behave on the field. Seriously, FannOLax, Seacoaster, thank you.
You're welcome. Some great modern novelists (Franzen, for example) use profanity, but sparingly. It can be an effective writing tool, but of course this is an on-line forum where some people seek to provoke and insult others while cheaply drawing attention to themselves.
Okay, there is a natural lull after fall ball; but it would be nice if this website could attract a big new batch of people come February. How can we do that?
FannOLax wrote:You're welcome. Some great modern novelists (Franzen, for example) use profanity, but sparingly. It can be an effective writing tool, but of course this is an on-line forum where some people seek to provoke and insult others while cheaply drawing attention to themselves.
Not so different than mediocre players. they want to be more than supporting actors but that can't rip upper corners so... They talk, foul, talk, foul, etc. As a result, they become leading actors. playing a horrible role but a leading actor none the less.
FannOLax wrote:Okay, there is a natural lull after fall ball; but it would be nice if this website could attract a big new batch of people come February. How can we do that?
There's a natural lull after Memorial day Weekend. maybe things will be even slower after fall ball. either way, i'm with you about february. the diehards are talking lacrosse (and Politics) as we speak but... february is when it matters (with no insult to the diehards... us included). and changed the Fantasy draft from mid-January and 1 pick every 3 minutes on a sunday night to October 1st and 1 pick per day in order to spread more lacrosse over my year. but this is far from riveting entertainment for the masses. february is when it matters. but back to your question which is the same question that i ask myself...
I think lacrosse people will come to FanLax for good content and to connect with (other) lacrosse-educated people. so, besides spreading the word, which i feel will be the easiest part (the lacrosse world is a small world), we need... great content. (I just wrote a far too long post after this. just deleted it... this is the summary...) Great Content within the forum from post-ers. Good content on the website within the division, league/conference, and team pages. Team schedules and results as well as convenient links to other team's schedules and results. rankings that are understandable and customizable. and, lastly, good social media content both coming into and out of FanLax. i think if we do all of the above and do it well, we'll be offering a good product/service. what do you think?
I think lacrosse people will come to FanLax for good content and to connect with (other) lacrosse-educated people. so, besides spreading the word, which i feel will be the easiest part (the lacrosse world is a small world), we need... great content. (I just wrote a far too long post after this. just deleted it... this is the summary...) Great Content within the forum from post-ers. Good content on the website within the division, league/conference, and team pages. Team schedules and results as well as convenient links to other team's schedules and results. rankings that are understandable and customizable. and, lastly, good social media content both coming into and out of FanLax. i think if we do all of the above and do it well, we'll be offering a good product/service. what do you think?
Can't thank you enough for taking this project on. Fan[Lax]TASTIC job!
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"The purpose of writing is to inflate weak ideas, obscure poor reasoning, and inhibit clarity. With a little practice, writing can be an intimidating and impenetrable fog." - Calvin, to Hobbes
Keep meaning to type this post but keep forgetting. This isn't urgent but, besides the rules for FanLax, day-to-day operational stuff, I think we should document the, so to speak, corporate stuff. As much as rules need to be established to make sure our post-ers don't burn down the house, I think corporate rules need to be established to make sure we don't have a repeat of what happened to the website where we all met each other. Many people benefited from what happened. But the lacrosse community was most certainly not one of them. And we need to create documentation to make sure that this never happens again. FanLax should and will put lacrosse fans first. And this needs to be documented so that it's not just words.
admin wrote:Keep meaning to type this post but keep forgetting. This isn't urgent but, besides the rules for FanLax, day-to-day operational stuff, I think we should document the, so to speak, corporate stuff. As much as rules need to be established to make sure our post-ers don't burn down the house, I think corporate rules need to be established to make sure we don't have a repeat of what happened to the website where we all met each other. Many people benefited from what happened. But the lacrosse community was most certainly not one of them. And we need to create documentation to make sure that this never happens again. FanLax should and will put lacrosse fans first. And this needs to be documented so that it's not just words.
Absolutely! Hallelujah!
I’d also recommend you keep ALL of your PMs too.
Save them off to subfolders if there’s a limit to your inbox size.
Or screenshot them.
Plus, if you keep getting harassed, you are in charge here and are trying to keep it fun. As boss, you have total right to fully disclose the contents of PMs to show the level of BS you are putting up with behind the scenes. Show people in their true colors. Show what they do with their pants down, verbatim.
That sounds mighty contradictory to me, why not just do away with PMs?
Make it a free for all with everyone playing with their pants down for the
whole game. You've got one person calling the shots as to which PMs will
be put out for all to read (pretty much does away with the P in PM, no?)
with your suggestion, which is pretty much what has your panties in a
bunch, no?
DMac wrote:That sounds mighty contradictory to me, why not just do away with PMs?
Make it a free for all with everyone playing with their pants down for the
whole game. You've got one person calling the shots as to which PMs will
be put out for all to read (pretty much does away with the P in PM, no?)
with your suggestion, which is pretty much what has your panties in a
bunch, no?
Dmac, I’m not in a bunch.
Read Incident #7.
If some people keep badgering the Admin through PMs, my concern is that it adds to the work of the Admin, makes it less fun for the Admin to be running this, and thus the Admin could eventually say this isn’t worth it and kill the whole enterprise.
I haven’t been around much over the past two months, but, take a look around.
A certain someone’s Posts here are ALL gone. All references to that user have been reworded (bet that took a lot of work).
All of that seemed to go down in September.
Then Anonymous1 user shows up in mid-October and continues to complain and calls people trolls.
I’ve got a pretty good guess as to who Anonymous1 is.
There are apparently some major headaches behind the scenes that our generous Admin is dealing with, and my proposal above would perhaps be one way to get his behind the scenes badgerer to FULL STOP.
Sure sounds to me as if that's quite what the Mods at LP did, those types were given a vacation. Not such a bad idea after all, eh (for all the reasons you list above)? Instead you want to bad mouth the Mods, kick 'em in the nuts, print their PMs, let everyone know that Bald-ego was an ass for devoting so much of his time working on his labor of love (and one that attracted, and kept, a ton of good and knowledgeable lacrosse people). You've lost at least one long time friend as a result, and I'd bet more than that. Maybe you should check your bitterness level, seems a little high and out of line to me.
Here's something you can complain about here; you can't write a-s-s or c-r-a-p?
Very restrictive.
