The stick

[DMac]

The men's sticks have reached such a perverted level that they have somewhat ruined the game for me. Yes, I still watch but all too often I just shake my head and say that never should have happened. Can't remember which game it was but in one of them the ball carrier was getting banged around by three people, sticks clanging, he goes to the turf, gets back up and comes out of the pile with the ball. The commentator said (paraphrasing a bit but I'm pretty close), I can't believe he was able to hold onto the ball. No, he didn't hold onto the ball, it just wouldn't come out of his bagged pocket with sick hold stick and it's just wrong. That just goes against the essence of the game, it's not a level playing field, the balance is way out of whack and favors the O way too much. As if the O doesn't have enough of an advantage with the sticks, it seems as if it's been forgotten that warding off is against the rules and results in change of possession. I can't believe how much warding off I see with no call.
My buddy (a youngster at 62) was playing a little catch with his 11-12 yr old g-son a few days back. An 8th grader happened along with his stick and asked if he could join in and, of course, was welcomed to. He was also a FOGO and gave my buddy a lesson in stick manipulation and how to suck up a ball (pinch) with it. Was the first time my buddy had seen all of that up close and personal, his mind was blown and could only say that should be illegal (with which I fully agree). Tell that to the younger generation and they won't even understand what you're talking about though.
If you haven't tuned into the women's game, give it a look. In that game you'll see how a lacrosse stick is supposed to work.
You won't see anyone running up field with their stick vertical, being held by one hand at the throat and pumping their arms to attain max speed....you have to cradle the ball with a wlaxer's stick, as it should be. The men's sticks are an abomination and, yes, I fully understand that nothing is going change with them....well, maybe they'll find a way to give them even more sick hold and come up with a gripper ball so I guess there is a possibility for some change.
I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

[NattyBohChamps04]

I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

The design of the women's sticks and pockets have advanced enough that they function similar to men's sticks from the early 90's / pre-Edge days. Women can shoot the ball underhand and sidearm, and get it up to 80mph these days. Men can hit ~95mph with a current women's stick.

As far as the men's sticks, pockets have also advanced in the past 30 years. Those are harder to regulate, so the simplest change would be to eliminate the offset. That wouldn't be a major change in the game today's mesh, but it would help. And it wouldn't be much of a burden on manufacturers to make or officials/organizations to enforce.

[FMUBart]

Pinch and pop is a joke, imho..

[PizzaSnake]

The men's sticks have reached such a perverted level that they have somewhat ruined the game for me. Yes, I still watch but all too often I just shake my head and say that never should have happened. Can't remember which game it was but in one of them the ball carrier was getting banged around by three people, sticks clanging, he goes to the turf, gets back up and comes out of the pile with the ball. The commentator said (paraphrasing a bit but I'm pretty close), I can't believe he was able to hold onto the ball. No, he didn't hold onto the ball, it just wouldn't come out of his bagged pocket with sick hold stick and it's just wrong. That just goes against the essence of the game, it's not a level playing field, the balance is way out of whack and favors the O way too much. As if the O doesn't have enough of an advantage with the sticks, it seems as if it's been forgotten that warding off is against the rules and results in change of possession. I can't believe how much warding off I see with no call.
My buddy (a youngster at 62) was playing a little catch with his 11-12 yr old g-son a few days back. An 8th grader happened along with his stick and asked if he could join in and, of course, was welcomed to. He was also a FOGO and gave my buddy a lesson in stick manipulation and how to suck up a ball (pinch) with it. Was the first time my buddy had seen all of that up close and personal, his mind was blown and could only say that should be illegal (with which I fully agree). Tell that to the younger generation and they won't even understand what you're talking about though.
If you haven't tuned into the women's game, give it a look. In that game you'll see how a lacrosse stick is supposed to work.
You won't see anyone running up field with their stick vertical, being held by one hand at the throat and pumping their arms to attain max speed....you have to cradle the ball with a wlaxer's stick, as it should be. The men's sticks are an abomination and, yes, I fully understand that nothing is going change with them....well, maybe they'll find a way to give them even more sick hold and come up with a gripper ball so I guess there is a possibility for some change.
I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

Amen to the sticks and the warding off.

The women's game is looking better and better as the men's game gets modified beyond recognition. I find most games hard to watch as the officiating makes no sense. Reminds me of the perversion that is the NBA. That's not basketball, that's just an entertainment "product," increasingly manipulated in the service of gambling.

[DMac]

I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

The design of the women's sticks and pockets have advanced enough that they function similar to men's sticks from the early 90's / pre-Edge days. Women can shoot the ball underhand and sidearm, and get it up to 80mph these days. Men can hit ~95mph with a current women's stick.

Yup, have said many times that I think today's wlaxer's sticks are pretty much the equivalent of the Gait era sticks and the wlaxers can now do everything they did with theirs. Stick technology needed to stop right there.
I tossed the ball around once with a wlax stick and found it to be very much like what I was used to and the way it should be.
When Brendan O'Neil (and plenty of others) wind up to shoot his stick is damn near vertical, head to the ground, and the torque he can get is just beyond ridiculous. You couldn't do that with a wlaxer's stick (ball would roll out), as it should be.

[nyjay]

The women's game is looking better and better as the men's game gets modified beyond recognition. I find most games hard to watch as the officiating makes no sense. Reminds me of the perversion that is the NBA. That's not basketball, that's just an entertainment "product," increasingly manipulated in the service of gambling.

If anything, the officiating in the women's game is worse. It's wildly inconsistent. I admittedly don't know the rules as well as I do for the men's game, but I'm frequently scratching my head wondering what just happened. (Don't get me started on trying to watch HS girls field hockey - that's just truly baffling.)

[oldbartman]

It is still the same test to see if a pocket is too deep. If the ref can see the top of the ball, it's too deep. The real difference is in the shape and height of the sidewalls. The shape of todays heads provides a very uniform channel as compared the old V shape of the heads from the 70s and 80s. When I compare the height of my last college stick, and a 1979 STX Superlight I believe, the new stick sidewall is at least 3/4' taller. It does sound like much, but even with a solid check on my stick in my men's league the ball may wiggle a bit, but rarely comes out. So the imho it's a combination of the shape and height of the sidewalls that has had the biggest effect. Of course I could be wrong...

[NattyBohChamps04]

The women's game is looking better and better as the men's game gets modified beyond recognition. I find most games hard to watch as the officiating makes no sense. Reminds me of the perversion that is the NBA. That's not basketball, that's just an entertainment "product," increasingly manipulated in the service of gambling.

If anything, the officiating in the women's game is worse. It's wildly inconsistent. I admittedly don't know the rules as well as I do for the men's game, but I'm frequently scratching my head wondering what just happened. (Don't get me started on trying to watch HS girls field hockey - that's just truly baffling.)

Women's lacrosse is one of the most difficult sports to officiate. There are a lot more subjective calls than the men's game, and fouls based on viewing a fraction of a second's action of where the sticks are. What's the angle of the check? How far across the body was a check? Was a check or cradle an inch or two too close to the head?

I won't comment on whether the officiating is worse, but it's definitely harder to ref, which accounts for some of the inconsistencies.

[wgdsr]

The men's sticks have reached such a perverted level that they have somewhat ruined the game for me. Yes, I still watch but all too often I just shake my head and say that never should have happened. Can't remember which game it was but in one of them the ball carrier was getting banged around by three people, sticks clanging, he goes to the turf, gets back up and comes out of the pile with the ball. The commentator said (paraphrasing a bit but I'm pretty close), I can't believe he was able to hold onto the ball. No, he didn't hold onto the ball, it just wouldn't come out of his bagged pocket with sick hold stick and it's just wrong. That just goes against the essence of the game, it's not a level playing field, the balance is way out of whack and favors the O way too much. As if the O doesn't have enough of an advantage with the sticks, it seems as if it's been forgotten that warding off is against the rules and results in change of possession. I can't believe how much warding off I see with no call.
My buddy (a youngster at 62) was playing a little catch with his 11-12 yr old g-son a few days back. An 8th grader happened along with his stick and asked if he could join in and, of course, was welcomed to. He was also a FOGO and gave my buddy a lesson in stick manipulation and how to suck up a ball (pinch) with it. Was the first time my buddy had seen all of that up close and personal, his mind was blown and could only say that should be illegal (with which I fully agree). Tell that to the younger generation and they won't even understand what you're talking about though.
If you haven't tuned into the women's game, give it a look. In that game you'll see how a lacrosse stick is supposed to work.
You won't see anyone running up field with their stick vertical, being held by one hand at the throat and pumping their arms to attain max speed....you have to cradle the ball with a wlaxer's stick, as it should be. The men's sticks are an abomination and, yes, I fully understand that nothing is going change with them....well, maybe they'll find a way to give them even more sick hold and come up with a gripper ball so I guess there is a possibility for some change.
I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

i'm fine with the men's stick. if it were dialed to women's-ish, with the checks allowed to be thrown the ball was/would be on the ground too frequently. it's allowed more athletic plays to be made more frequently, scores haven't exploded, and enjoy watching teams of all levels.

women's seems to be a perfect fit as well for how it can be defensed, with the obligatory tweaks.

[pcowlax]

Those plays where the D is throwing great checks and it just won’t come out are indeed frustrating and annoying. But the overall problem with the carping about all of the offensive advantages these days, aside from the very strong old men shouting at clouds vibe, is game scores. Despite now playing with a shot clock, are average scores any different than 30 or 40 years ago? No, not really. D poles are vastly lighter and easier to use, offenses are better scouted, D schemes more complex. All of those changes that benefit the offense (and I would throw the virtual elimination of hitting into that, no one fears coming across the crease anymore) have only served to keep scoring basically unchanged. If games were all 28-22 I would be shouting for changes too but go back to 1960’s pockets in todays game and you will have 3-2 games.

[DMac]

Doubt the scores would be 3-2 any more than they were in '88 before the sticks reached the perverted level they're at now. D poles have gotten lighter all along just as the O sticks have.
Warding is another call that seems to have gone by the wayside....see it a lot, don't see it called often. More advantage O.

[nrthcrosslax]

The worst perversion of stick technology IMO is the carbon fiber/composite or whatever shafts. Is there a snapped shaft every game? How many possessions has this cost a team? It's really compelling and exciting lacrosse to watch when a guy is running off the field because his stick is on the field broken in half.

[Farfromgeneva]

The men's sticks have reached such a perverted level that they have somewhat ruined the game for me. Yes, I still watch but all too often I just shake my head and say that never should have happened. Can't remember which game it was but in one of them the ball carrier was getting banged around by three people, sticks clanging, he goes to the turf, gets back up and comes out of the pile with the ball. The commentator said (paraphrasing a bit but I'm pretty close), I can't believe he was able to hold onto the ball. No, he didn't hold onto the ball, it just wouldn't come out of his bagged pocket with sick hold stick and it's just wrong. That just goes against the essence of the game, it's not a level playing field, the balance is way out of whack and favors the O way too much. As if the O doesn't have enough of an advantage with the sticks, it seems as if it's been forgotten that warding off is against the rules and results in change of possession. I can't believe how much warding off I see with no call.
My buddy (a youngster at 62) was playing a little catch with his 11-12 yr old g-son a few days back. An 8th grader happened along with his stick and asked if he could join in and, of course, was welcomed to. He was also a FOGO and gave my buddy a lesson in stick manipulation and how to suck up a ball (pinch) with it. Was the first time my buddy had seen all of that up close and personal, his mind was blown and could only say that should be illegal (with which I fully agree). Tell that to the younger generation and they won't even understand what you're talking about though.
If you haven't tuned into the women's game, give it a look. In that game you'll see how a lacrosse stick is supposed to work.
You won't see anyone running up field with their stick vertical, being held by one hand at the throat and pumping their arms to attain max speed....you have to cradle the ball with a wlaxer's stick, as it should be. The men's sticks are an abomination and, yes, I fully understand that nothing is going change with them....well, maybe they'll find a way to give them even more sick hold and come up with a gripper ball so I guess there is a possibility for some change.
I enjoy the women's game much more than the men's anymore (and it's unbelievable that those words are coming from me), their game is truer to the game and the stickwork (not the stick working for them) is just gorgeous to watch.
End of rant.

Amen to the sticks and the warding off.

The women's game is looking better and better as the men's game gets modified beyond recognition. I find most games hard to watch as the officiating makes no sense. Reminds me of the perversion that is the NBA. That's not basketball, that's just an entertainment "product," increasingly manipulated in the service of gambling.

Try having your home team star named Trey Young just fly into bodies then chuck the ball up with no basketball play in mind just trying to get to some spot first and draw contact. Awful to watch at those ticket prices over and over again.

[wgdsr]

Doubt the scores would be 3-2 any more than they were in '88 before the sticks reached the perverted level they're at now. D poles have gotten lighter all along just as the O sticks have.
Warding is another call that seems to have gone by the wayside....see it a lot, don't see it called often. More advantage O.

it wouldn't be 3-2 but i'm in no hurry to see teams in a race to see hoo can get to 60 or 70+ gbs again.

defensemen get plenty of leeway on hard checks off the glove and stick, lifts, holds and some pushes. by and large i see it as pretty well officiated at the high college level. other levels, guys are working up and/or are more inconsistent (in general), but they're out there.

everybody has their pet peeves. mine's the trip that's actually a 30 sec hold in most all cases. just make it 30 sec for a trip, or give officials a judgment call for 30 to 1 min as they're mostly all judgment anyway.

[Gorilla Fan]

They should call stick checks on FOGO’s after they score goals

[mdk01]

Doubt the scores would be 3-2 any more than they were in '88 before the sticks reached the perverted level they're at now. D poles have gotten lighter all along just as the O sticks have.
Warding is another call that seems to have gone by the wayside....see it a lot, don't see it called often. More advantage O.

Not 3-2, but lower than currently. Also, warding is called about as often as cross checking that does not involve the neck or head.

[Ezra White]

If stick design returned to Y shape w/ walls around 2.5", we might not see substantial change in average scores or gb's. But we probably would see more and better cradling.

And while we're talking about gb's, one thing I dislike about today's game is how common raking has become. When I played, we were taught to run through the ball and pick it up at speed. Now, it often resembles ice hockey players fighting for the puck in a corner.

[wgdsr]

If stick design returned to Y shape w/ walls around 2.5", we might not see substantial change in average scores or gb's. But we probably would see more and better cradling.

And while we're talking about gb's, one thing I dislike about today's game is how common raking has become. When I played, we were taught to run through the ball and pick it up at speed. Now, it often resembles ice hockey players fighting for the puck in a corner.

you're right about raking, but gbs would skyrocket. the ball would be on the ground. again.

[Mr3Putt]

Men’s & womens game are complete opposites . Womens check the stick too much. Mens not at all. Not a fan of how the girls throw the stick down after a goal. The pocket depth in men’s sticks is absurd. That’s why you see toe drags, and swim moves w frequency.. in 80’& 90’s you saw attackman have to have stick protection as part of the game . Not w these crab nets. But it’s not changing, id like to see a measurement in depth of a pocket, instead of the subjective eyeing up the ball if the ball goes below the equator. Paul Rabil played w biggest bag of all time.

[bearlaxfan]

Yep, love the 400mm lens, 48 megapix camera shot of someone dodging with a mesh bag looking like he could cradle 3 balls successfully and no calls, no stick check.
I wouldn't mind if the men's game went to "drop the stick: stickcheck" after a goal à la the women's game. It wouldn't add much time given the goalscoring celebrations that already occur.
And make the punishment hurt: 30 seconds is not enough. Goal disallowed, confiscate the offender's stick for the remainder of the game. Box time 1 min unreleasable. 2nd offense out of the game. It has to hurt, because the tech will not go backwards: any rule will just lead to workarounds by the manufacturers. It's like the evolution between predators and prey.