CNU 2023

[Laxguy703]

Figured I’d get this started up for the 2023 season.

Something I have noticed is that CNU has been killing the recruiting game over the past few years and these next two classes are setting up to be their best.

Here are some of the commits I have noticed within the last few months who had stellar Junior campaigns. (You can also check out some of the incoming classes highlights through the CNU Instagram; looks like they found some solid players.)

Kevin Miller: Atlee HS
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_cVQRPkMsCU

Garrett Bralley: Atlee HS
https://youtu.be/ZLnCr9EFHKo

Jackson Shaw: Broadneck HS
https://youtu.be/kfje07bpwbY

Drew Stahley: Sherwood HS
https://youtu.be/bNsxg8Zt17A

Alex Populuh: Robinson HS
https://youtu.be/NBDrbt-Wf4k

Bennett Spruell: Colorado academy
https://youtu.be/dWAG_iMpoBY

[Asgot]

It will be interesting to see who comes back here. I got to see CNU several times and they were IMO the beat team in the country. Just could not get past a very good York team.

What do you think about their proposed new conference?

[OSVAlacrosse]

I think it is great to see CNU source local talent and talent from VA public schools. There are some really strong players on that 2023 recruiting list. I still wonder why other VA programs recruit outside of the state. I know that in-state tuition is a public school advantage CNU has but many of these parents can also afford private I have just not seen much of other schools such as Lynchburg, W&L, Roanoke, and others following in state players. I am fairly familiar with the 2023 class. Many top players are going to NESCAC schools and other out of state D3 programs why are these other schools not targeting the top VA clubs and HS programs? I think CNU will continue to benefit from keeping it more local.

[Jumbo]

I think it is great to see CNU source local talent and talent from VA public schools. There are some really strong players on that 2023 recruiting list. I still wonder why other VA programs recruit outside of the state. I know that in-state tuition is a public school advantage CNU has but many of these parents can also afford private I have just not seen much of other schools such as Lynchburg, W&L, Roanoke, and others following in state players. I am fairly familiar with the 2023 class. Many top players are going to NESCAC schools and other out of state D3 programs why are these other schools not targeting the top VA clubs and HS programs? I think CNU will continue to benefit from keeping it more local.

CNU is public. So pricing is pretty fixed. In state is a bargain. Out of state is excessive (45k)
ODAC is all private. High sticker price, but most cut that in half once recruiting starts. Most ODAC schools can come close to CNU in state prices. This is more reasonable for out of state families.
My son loved the campus, loved the coach, but we just couldn’t justify the out of state cost.
If I recall, one of the assistants is also a club coach in NoVA. Probably another reason the pull so many va players

[InsiderRoll]

I think it is great to see CNU source local talent and talent from VA public schools. There are some really strong players on that 2023 recruiting list. I still wonder why other VA programs recruit outside of the state. I know that in-state tuition is a public school advantage CNU has but many of these parents can also afford private I have just not seen much of other schools such as Lynchburg, W&L, Roanoke, and others following in state players. I am fairly familiar with the 2023 class. Many top players are going to NESCAC schools and other out of state D3 programs why are these other schools not targeting the top VA clubs and HS programs? I think CNU will continue to benefit from keeping it more local.

it is not that simple. Roanoke and Lynchburg have a hard time beating the CNU price for VA kids. W&L is in a different pool of kids generally, but it is much harder for a VA kid to get into W&L than an out of region kid due to volume of applications. So W&L may get 2000 applications from VA kids in an admission cycle and Williams might get 150. At competitive institutions they will compare transcripts to previous applicants and admitted students. So when admissions is looking for geographic diversity it becomes hyper competitive as a VA applicant.

So if W&L wants 75 VA kids roughly out of 2000 that’s a 3% acceptance rate. If Williams takes 18 VA kids out of only a 150 applicants, that’s a 12% acceptance rate.

Basically it’s not as simple as you make it out to be.

[JPAtlantic]

It seems like CNU is becoming the Salisbury of Virginia. The great players that need the public school price and can't play for UVa, go to CNU.

[Laxguy703]

I think it is great to see CNU source local talent and talent from VA public schools. There are some really strong players on that 2023 recruiting list. I still wonder why other VA programs recruit outside of the state. I know that in-state tuition is a public school advantage CNU has but many of these parents can also afford private I have just not seen much of other schools such as Lynchburg, W&L, Roanoke, and others following in state players. I am fairly familiar with the 2023 class. Many top players are going to NESCAC schools and other out of state D3 programs why are these other schools not targeting the top VA clubs and HS programs? I think CNU will continue to benefit from keeping it more local.

CNU also does a good job of keeping in-state talent because lacrosse is such a “small world” community. If you look at their roster this past year they had 4 Atlee players, 4 stone bridge players, 2 St. Christopher players, and 2 Robinson players. Coach Thompson also has 3 more Atlee guys and 3 more Robinson guys coming in as well. These are all historically very good programs within Virginia and when younger guys in high school see their older teammates succeed at CNU, it could be enticing to go and join them.

For example, I bet Dylan Rice(Atlee HS ‘17) had some sort of influence on Drew Miller(Atlee HS ‘19) and Andrew Cook(Atlee HS ‘19) choosing CNU. If you’re looking for colleges and your former teammate is telling you to come to that school, it would be tough to say no if you see that the former teammate is having a great experience there.

[InsiderRoll]

It seems like CNU is becoming the Salisbury of Virginia. The great players that need the public school price and can't play for UVa, go to CNU.

Yeah I think there’s a lot between UVA and CNU when it comes to lacrosse recruits - and academics for that matter, but I get your point.

[Jumbo]

I think it is great to see CNU source local talent and talent from VA public schools. There are some really strong players on that 2023 recruiting list. I still wonder why other VA programs recruit outside of the state. I know that in-state tuition is a public school advantage CNU has but many of these parents can also afford private I have just not seen much of other schools such as Lynchburg, W&L, Roanoke, and others following in state players. I am fairly familiar with the 2023 class. Many top players are going to NESCAC schools and other out of state D3 programs why are these other schools not targeting the top VA clubs and HS programs? I think CNU will continue to benefit from keeping it more local.

it is not that simple. Roanoke and Lynchburg have a hard time beating the CNU price for VA kids. W&L is in a different pool of kids generally, but it is much harder for a VA kid to get into W&L than an out of region kid due to volume of applications. So W&L may get 2000 applications from VA kids in an admission cycle and Williams might get 150. At competitive institutions they will compare transcripts to previous applicants and admitted students. So when admissions is looking for geographic diversity it becomes hyper competitive as a VA applicant.

So if W&L wants 75 VA kids roughly out of 2000 that’s a 3% acceptance rate. If Williams takes 18 VA kids out of only a 150 applicants, that’s a 12% acceptance rate.

Basically it’s not as simple as you make it out to be.

We just went through the process last year. CNU and many of the ODAC schools were all in the mid high 20’s for in state after discounts. The advantage for the ODAC is out of state kids get the same ODAC prices. For us being out of state, CNU was the most expensive school on his short list. Would make sense that ODAC attracts more out of state.
W&L has an acceptance rate under 20%. Not sure about the in state acceptance rate. But I would doubt that it is only 3%. The only data I found says it is 20% in state.

I have a feeling the perception of CNU being a state school, therefore having a lower cost, comes into play. I wonder how many of these out of state parents actually looked at the cost before the kids accepted.

Either way, CNU was at most of the MD/DE/PA tournaments we attended. I occasionally saw ODAC coaches at these tournaments. Just seems like CNU, York, and Salisbury are targeting the same touneys as the D1 coaches and looking for kids beyond VA

[OSVAlacrosse]

I agree with what is posted here from the students perspective on why CNU v. private ODAC and agree they are smart targeting public school programs. Briar Woods teams also had some good players go to CNU. I also do understand the difference with W&L and the acceptance rate. What I was pointing out is that others have noticed as well is that CNU is targeting top VA HS and club programs while the other in-state schools especially the ODAC schools are not. They should work harder to build closer pipelines. Many of these players are going to NESCAC teams so I am sure they should be able to make the academics and financial commitments. It just seems like not as many VA players end up playing in VA but CNU is an exception. UVA is also good for 2-3 per class.

[Laxguy703]

Aside from recruiting talk, I am super curious to see how CNU looks this year. They lose Coach Thompson’s first recruiting class now that the 5th years are gone and they also lose Altobello. I think a lot of the graduates are pretty replaceable outside of Wayne, Hines, Rice, and Altobello. Those four right there combined for 115 G’s, 61 Assists, 155 GB’s and 122 CT’s this past year.

On the bright side, they return 6 AA’s and some non-accoladed studs in Drew Miller, Ryan Young, Alex Brendes, and Aidan Wheeler. That’s a good core group to lead your team.

Biggest questions in my opinion are:
Who takes the keys to the offense now that Rice is gone?
Who’s the new #1 cover guy on defense?
Who’s going to be that 3rd middie on the 1st Line?
Will Brett Jackson take a big sophomore leap? Anyone who followed CNU last year knows that kid can be a star.

Thoughts?

[InsiderRoll]

I think it is great to see CNU source local talent and talent from VA public schools. There are some really strong players on that 2023 recruiting list. I still wonder why other VA programs recruit outside of the state. I know that in-state tuition is a public school advantage CNU has but many of these parents can also afford private I have just not seen much of other schools such as Lynchburg, W&L, Roanoke, and others following in state players. I am fairly familiar with the 2023 class. Many top players are going to NESCAC schools and other out of state D3 programs why are these other schools not targeting the top VA clubs and HS programs? I think CNU will continue to benefit from keeping it more local.

it is not that simple. Roanoke and Lynchburg have a hard time beating the CNU price for VA kids. W&L is in a different pool of kids generally, but it is much harder for a VA kid to get into W&L than an out of region kid due to volume of applications. So W&L may get 2000 applications from VA kids in an admission cycle and Williams might get 150. At competitive institutions they will compare transcripts to previous applicants and admitted students. So when admissions is looking for geographic diversity it becomes hyper competitive as a VA applicant.

So if W&L wants 75 VA kids roughly out of 2000 that’s a 3% acceptance rate. If Williams takes 18 VA kids out of only a 150 applicants, that’s a 12% acceptance rate.

Basically it’s not as simple as you make it out to be.

We just went through the process last year. CNU and many of the ODAC schools were all in the mid high 20’s for in state after discounts. The advantage for the ODAC is out of state kids get the same ODAC prices. For us being out of state, CNU was the most expensive school on his short list. Would make sense that ODAC attracts more out of state.
W&L has an acceptance rate under 20%. Not sure about the in state acceptance rate. But I would doubt that it is only 3%. The only data I found says it is 20% in state.

I have a feeling the perception of CNU being a state school, therefore having a lower cost, comes into play. I wonder how many of these out of state parents actually looked at the cost before the kids accepted.

Either way, CNU was at most of the MD/DE/PA tournaments we attended. I occasionally saw ODAC coaches at these tournaments. Just seems like CNU, York, and Salisbury are targeting the same touneys as the D1 coaches and looking for kids beyond VA

I can speak to Lynchburg and W&L being everywhere this summer. I know very factually after talking to the W&L top assistant that he’s been at an event all but a handful of days this summer. I find it funny that someone would suggest they don’t recruit at the right events when their commits this year come from a who’s who of the best programs in the country. Primetime, Crabs, Next Level, etc. It’s borderline laughable to suggest that they should move away from taking multi year starters at Landon, Radnor, and Boys Latin to re-focus on kids from Atlee. I also know very factually that the current W&L staff keeps very good tabs on VA kids and programs. There’s a lot of good players out there.

I think people seem to putting too much stock in CNU, Yorks, and Salisburys recruiting - when they should put more stock into the culture and player development that takes place there.

[Jumbo]

People are putting stock in CNU, york, and SU because they are in the group of current elite teams Don’t get me wrong. W&L is elite academically. And very good athletically. But they are not an elite lax program. I would have loved for my son to go there.
I haven’t looked too deep at W&L recruiting class last year and this year, but I would be curious to know how many of those kids are making all state teams. Just because they play for a top club , doesn’t mean they are elite

[InsiderRoll]

People are putting stock in CNU, york, and SU because they are in the group of current elite teams Don’t get me wrong. W&L is elite academically. And very good athletically. But they are not an elite lax program. I would have loved for my son to go there.
I haven’t looked too deep at W&L recruiting class last year and this year, but I would be curious to know how many of those kids are making all state teams. Just because they play for a top club , doesn’t mean they are elite

Yes it’s an imperfect way to compare. Being all-state or even all American in Richmond doesn’t mean you’d even see the field at a program like Chaminade or Georgetown Prep. Doesn’t mean you wouldn’t either. Every kid is different. The window of talent difference between CNU and York vs W&L and F&M recruits is a lot tighter than you’re alluding too. It’s perhaps negligible for the most part. The fact is that the majority of these kids are close in talent, but culture, player development, and a kids own self motivation are much larger factors, particularly at the D3 level. You’re kidding yourself if any coach in America projected Ryan Kennedy or Max Wayne as a PLL draft pick out of HS, CNU and York didn’t out recruit Maryland and UVA, they shaped and molded a raw talent who was willing to work hard and develop on their own to a large extent. They also each had 5/6 years of college to do it, they certainly would not have gotten that good without the COVID years. Let’s say Max Wayne had gone to W&L, his academic load would probably have been 3-4x what it was at CNU, that leaves a lot less extra time for individual lacrosse development. You’ve over simplified something that quite frankly I don’t think you’re well versed in simply because you had a son go through the recruiting process.

The last piece is something you alluded to. There is a distinct difference in being a good recruiter and good evaluator. Being at the right tournaments doesn’t mean anything if you can’t pick out the right guys and project their development at the next level to a high degree of accuracy. It is NOT EASY, there is so much that goes into it. Trust me, in my 2 decades as a college coach I’ve recruited many all Americans - some of them I thought were the worst kids in the class. Some were the best players in the class. Some of the most sought after recruits I’ve ever landed never panned out. CNU and York are only a few bad recruiting decisions from being where W&L and Lynchburg are. W&L and Lynchburg are only a few great recruiting decisions from being right where York and CNU are. Coaches are well aware that the margins are that thin.

For the record I was very complimentary of the programs you mentioned. I just think the majority of guys they recruit are comparable to most top end D3 programs, they’ve developed them well. York, Union, RIT, CNU, and Salisbury are also LOADED with 23 and 24 year olds right now. There’s a lot to be said for that.

[Jumbo]

People are putting stock in CNU, york, and SU because they are in the group of current elite teams Don’t get me wrong. W&L is elite academically. And very good athletically. But they are not an elite lax program. I would have loved for my son to go there.
I haven’t looked too deep at W&L recruiting class last year and this year, but I would be curious to know how many of those kids are making all state teams. Just because they play for a top club , doesn’t mean they are elite

Yes it’s an imperfect way to compare. Being all-state or even all American in Richmond doesn’t mean you’d even see the field at a program like Chaminade or Georgetown Prep. Doesn’t mean you wouldn’t either. Every kid is different. The window of talent difference between CNU and York vs W&L and F&M recruits is a lot tighter than you’re alluding too. It’s perhaps negligible for the most part. The fact is that the majority of these kids are close in talent, but culture, player development, and a kids own self motivation are much larger factors, particularly at the D3 level. You’re kidding yourself if any coach in America projected Ryan Kennedy or Max Wayne as a PLL draft pick out of HS, CNU and York didn’t out recruit Maryland and UVA, they shaped and molded a raw talent who was willing to work hard and develop on their own to a large extent. They also each had 5/6 years of college to do it, they certainly would not have gotten that good without the COVID years. Let’s say Max Wayne had gone to W&L, his academic load would probably have been 3-4x what it was at CNU, that leaves a lot less extra time for individual lacrosse development. You’ve over simplified something that quite frankly I don’t think you’re well versed in simply because you had a son go through the recruiting process.

The last piece is something you alluded to. There is a distinct difference in being a good recruiter and good evaluator. Being at the right tournaments doesn’t mean anything if you can’t pick out the right guys and project their development at the next level to a high degree of accuracy. It is NOT EASY, there is so much that goes into it. Trust me, in my 2 decades as a college coach I’ve recruited many all Americans - some of them I thought were the worst kids in the class. Some were the best players in the class. Some of the most sought after recruits I’ve ever landed never panned out. CNU and York are only a few bad recruiting decisions from being where W&L and Lynchburg are. W&L and Lynchburg are only a few great recruiting decisions from being right where York and CNU are. Coaches are well aware that the margins are that thin.

For the record I was very complimentary of the programs you mentioned. I just think the majority of guys they recruit are comparable to most top end D3 programs, they’ve developed them well. York, Union, RIT, CNU, and Salisbury are also LOADED with 23 and 24 year olds right now. There’s a lot to be said for that.

Sorry that I hurt your feelings with the W&L opinions. I never knocked them. Good luck this year.

[DeepPocket]

With all the “reclass” and PG year players, COVID didn’t put the first 23 year olds on the lacrosse field, it just took something that was largely a prep-school privilege and made it more common.

Culture is huge, as stated, but you have to recruit kids who will fit and compliment that culture.

It is what it is. High academic institutions have major upsides in so many other areas, their self instituted limitations shouldn’t be something to get all flustered or defensive about. Everybody knows it’s harder to get in to school X, and the work load is greater in program Y etc. Nobody cares, the kids chose that school, and the coach chose that job. No more excuses, beat them on the field or get back to work until you can.

[ergit]

People are putting stock in CNU, york, and SU because they are in the group of current elite teams Don’t get me wrong. W&L is elite academically. And very good athletically. But they are not an elite lax program. I would have loved for my son to go there.
I haven’t looked too deep at W&L recruiting class last year and this year, but I would be curious to know how many of those kids are making all state teams. Just because they play for a top club , doesn’t mean they are elite

Yes it’s an imperfect way to compare. Being all-state or even all American in Richmond doesn’t mean you’d even see the field at a program like Chaminade or Georgetown Prep. Doesn’t mean you wouldn’t either. Every kid is different. The window of talent difference between CNU and York vs W&L and F&M recruits is a lot tighter than you’re alluding too. It’s perhaps negligible for the most part. The fact is that the majority of these kids are close in talent, but culture, player development, and a kids own self motivation are much larger factors, particularly at the D3 level. You’re kidding yourself if any coach in America projected Ryan Kennedy or Max Wayne as a PLL draft pick out of HS, CNU and York didn’t out recruit Maryland and UVA, they shaped and molded a raw talent who was willing to work hard and develop on their own to a large extent. They also each had 5/6 years of college to do it, they certainly would not have gotten that good without the COVID years. Let’s say Max Wayne had gone to W&L, his academic load would probably have been 3-4x what it was at CNU, that leaves a lot less extra time for individual lacrosse development. You’ve over simplified something that quite frankly I don’t think you’re well versed in simply because you had a son go through the recruiting process.

The last piece is something you alluded to. There is a distinct difference in being a good recruiter and good evaluator. Being at the right tournaments doesn’t mean anything if you can’t pick out the right guys and project their development at the next level to a high degree of accuracy. It is NOT EASY, there is so much that goes into it. Trust me, in my 2 decades as a college coach I’ve recruited many all Americans - some of them I thought were the worst kids in the class. Some were the best players in the class. Some of the most sought after recruits I’ve ever landed never panned out. CNU and York are only a few bad recruiting decisions from being where W&L and Lynchburg are. W&L and Lynchburg are only a few great recruiting decisions from being right where York and CNU are. Coaches are well aware that the margins are that thin.

For the record I was very complimentary of the programs you mentioned. I just think the majority of guys they recruit are comparable to most top end D3 programs, they’ve developed them well. York, Union, RIT, CNU, and Salisbury are also LOADED with 23 and 24 year olds right now. There’s a lot to be said for that.

1) The academic load at W&L isn’t 3-4 times that at CNU. On what basis do you make this claim? Is the academic load in a liberal arts program at W&L heavier than an engineering program at another school? Poor excuse…
2) The margins for success are not that thin. The top handful of teams in D3 are consistently up there, and for a multitude of reasons, talent, coaching, culture, development and institutional support to name a few.
3) The teams you listed are not ‘loaded’ with 23 and 24 year olds. Fifth years to some extent perhaps, but probably few at 23/24.

[JustOneTime]

I agree with this comment. "The margins for success are not that thin. The top handful of teams in D3 are consistently up there, and for a multitude of reasons, talent, coaching, culture, development and institutional support to name a few."
There are many very good programs but there are only a few great programs. It takes a certain type of kid to succeed at the elite programs. They have to be talented but they also have a great work ethic and thick skin. Many of the top programs have large recruiting classes each year. They bring in a bunch of talented kids and then whittle it down. Some kids that are very good players in high school may not see the field until their junior year. So the top teams can have a larger % of kids that don't pan out and still be elite. The very good programs (ie. W&L, F&M) don't have as large a margin for error if a recruit doesn't pan out or if injuries occur.

[Asgot]

Aside from recruiting talk, I am super curious to see how CNU looks this year. They lose Coach Thompson’s first recruiting class now that the 5th years are gone and they also lose Altobello. I think a lot of the graduates are pretty replaceable outside of Wayne, Hines, Rice, and Altobello. Those four right there combined for 115 G’s, 61 Assists, 155 GB’s and 122 CT’s this past year.

On the bright side, they return 6 AA’s and some non-accoladed studs in Drew Miller, Ryan Young, Alex Brendes, and Aidan Wheeler. That’s a good core group to lead your team.

Biggest questions in my opinion are:
Who takes the keys to the offense now that Rice is gone?
Who’s the new #1 cover guy on defense?
Who’s going to be that 3rd middie on the 1st Line?
Will Brett Jackson take a big sophomore leap? Anyone who followed CNU last year knows that kid can be a star.

Thoughts?

Love to get back to talking about CNU on this CNU thread. Would love to know if Pozin is coming back, I thought he was the spark plug for this team most of the year. They have lots of really good pieces coming back including there goalie and their fogo but losing their top pole, attackman and middie may take them a little while to adjust. I am sure that they bringing in really good players but just like everyone else that goes back to more normalcy they are going to need to fill in with there talented recruiting classes

[Laxguy703]

Aside from recruiting talk, I am super curious to see how CNU looks this year. They lose Coach Thompson’s first recruiting class now that the 5th years are gone and they also lose Altobello. I think a lot of the graduates are pretty replaceable outside of Wayne, Hines, Rice, and Altobello. Those four right there combined for 115 G’s, 61 Assists, 155 GB’s and 122 CT’s this past year.

On the bright side, they return 6 AA’s and some non-accoladed studs in Drew Miller, Ryan Young, Alex Brendes, and Aidan Wheeler. That’s a good core group to lead your team.

Biggest questions in my opinion are:
Who takes the keys to the offense now that Rice is gone?
Who’s the new #1 cover guy on defense?
Who’s going to be that 3rd middie on the 1st Line?
Will Brett Jackson take a big sophomore leap? Anyone who followed CNU last year knows that kid can be a star.

Thoughts?

Love to get back to talking about CNU on this CNU thread. Would love to know if Pozin is coming back, I thought he was the spark plug for this team most of the year. They have lots of really good pieces coming back including there goalie and their fogo but losing their top pole, attackman and middie may take them a little while to adjust. I am sure that they bringing in really good players but just like everyone else that goes back to more normalcy they are going to need to fill in with there talented recruiting classes

Couldn’t agree more about Pozin. He’s been one of the more underrated players over the past couple of years so it was nice to finally see him get some recognition from USILA and all the other outlets. I was told he is coming back which is huge for the captains. 2nd Team AA senior pole Burke Widhelm will also be back.