Atlantic Article

[Gorilla Fan]

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... ns/616474/

For lacrosse, the situation is perhaps worse, if only because the absolute number of kids playing the game is higher. Lacrosse has topped the list of the most-added high-school sports for the past seven years, according to the National Federation of State High School Associations, but again, its growth at high-status colleges has been anemic.

Before the pandemic, determined lacrosse families from New Canaan, Greenwich, and Darien had put their heads together to try to address the dearth of college-lacrosse spots, with a twist on Sharadin’s approach to water polo. Their inspiration: the JetBlue founder and New Canaan resident David Neeleman, whose $15.6 million donation helped establish a Division I lacrosse team at the University of Utah—his son Seth is a star defender and team captain. “We’ve been looking into what is the ticket price to start a men’s [varsity lacrosse] program” at Stanford, one parent told me. “We could create lacrosse at Stanford with $20 million. If we could just find $20 million, we could make this work.”

One Greenwich parent told me she believes that, far from being a glide path to the Ivies, lacrosse had actually hurt her older son’s college prospects. As team captain and a straight‑A student with stellar test scores, he would have been a credible applicant to NYU or Columbia—but these schools lack varsity-lacrosse programs, and he’d fallen in love with his sport. “There were eight or 10 strong academic schools we couldn’t even look at, because they didn’t have varsity lacrosse,” she said.

Her kid just completed his freshman year at a not-so-fancy college in the South, and, according to his mom, he’s happy enough. But she feels bitter, and wonders if her younger boy should quit club lacrosse. “The guys who get recruited to the Ivies—it turns out these guys are beasts,” she said. “I saw them at showcases. They were like stallions.”

She and her husband feel hoodwinked by the directors of her son’s club-lacrosse program, which happily stoked her fantasies while stockpiling her money: $10,000 a year for 11 years. “They were talking Notre Dame for him,” she said. “Our eyes were glistening … We went to 16 showcases last year. I can’t believe the money we spent to see our son rejected 16 times.”

“I understand the frustration,” says Jeff Brameier, who is entering his 36th year as the lacrosse coach at Darien High School, consistently one of the highest-ranked public-school lacrosse teams in the country. “I’ve had a few team captains who were among my best defensive kids ever. Near-perfect GPAs. I couldn’t get them into an Ivy. I tried.”

[pcowlax]

Wow. There’s a lot to unpack in that one! D1 growth not keeping up with high school? Certainly true. Essentially buying a start up program? Well, between NC, Darien and Greenwich $20 million is pocket change, money is certainly not a barrier to that and, it not being my money, I would love to see it the Gold Coast fund some startups. Title IX and antipathy towards the perceived lacrosse demographics however will not be so easily overcome.

After that, we go a bit off the rails. By playing lax (not hard to figure out who this is but no need to name names) he has taken himself out of contention for top schools without lax? But he can’t go to Ivys because it turns out the guys who go there are beasts? Lax mom confirmed they are “stallions” when she saw them at showcases? What the hell is that? Who exactly has he been playing against in the FCIAC and CONNY? I know club costs can be outrageous but $10,000 a year for 11 years? From when he was 7? If he was “rejected” 16 times (I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean), was he getting into those other schools anyway without lacrosse? News flash, the non-athletes who get into Columbia, Northwestern, Berkley, etc are academic stallions. Not a good look with those quotes.

[Gorilla Fan]

Amid the shifting norms, there’s a growing sense of unease among suburban parents in niche-sport hubs—a dread that they went too far, failed to read the room. And they’re not wrong. “It’s easy to stereotype the Fairfield County player,” says Lars Tiffany, the men’s varsity-lacrosse coach at the University of Virginia. “The Fairfield County player is the rich kid who still has his umbilical cord connected: the kid who doesn’t really have to take ownership of his mistakes or actions.” Tiffany insists he doesn’t buy in to such broad-brush stereotypes. “We try not to care where they’re from,” he says. And yet, “if they’re from a hotbed, there’s an expectation level.”

He elaborates: “Do I hold the Fairfield County lacrosse player to a higher standard? Of course. You just know he’s been coached up. So flash-forward to me watching a [high school] junior on the lacrosse field. The thought is going through my brain that I like his skill set but there’s room for growth. But then I think, Wait. He’s already had a lot of people working on these things. He’s a little tapped out. Maybe I’ll take a player from Northern California or Texas. Someone who hasn’t been exposed to such elite coaching. Someone whose best lacrosse could be ahead of him. You try to tell yourself not to overanalyze, but you do.”

[44WeWantMore]

Wow. There’s a lot to unpack in that one! D1 growth not keeping up with high school? Certainly true. Essentially buying a start up program? Well, between NC, Darien and Greenwich $20 million is pocket change, money is certainly not a barrier to that and, it not being my money, I would love to see it the Gold Coast fund some startups. Title IX and antipathy towards the perceived lacrosse demographics however will not be so easily overcome.

After that, we go a bit off the rails. By playing lax (not hard to figure out who this is but no need to name names) he has taken himself out of contention for top schools without lax? But he can’t go to Ivys because it turns out the guys who go there are beasts? Lax mom confirmed they are “stallions” when she saw them at showcases? What the hell is that? Who exactly has he been playing against in the FCIAC and CONNY? I know club costs can be outrageous but $10,000 a year for 11 years? From when he was 7? If he was “rejected” 16 times (I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean), was he getting into those other schools anyway without lacrosse? News flash, the non-athletes who get into Columbia, Northwestern, Berkley, etc are academic stallions. Not a good look with those quotes.

This. When Stanford cut some varsity sports, they made it clear that alumni dedicated funding could not restore them. At Stanford, it was not about money (they have plenty, and they were not interested in more); it was about hate.

[jhu06]

on the lacrosse front
-Tiffany's comments were interesting. It's been one of the questions lingering over the sport for awhile which is when is the growth of the game into the sunbelt hotbeds that produce so much of the olympic sport, football, basketball talent going to start realizing itself in d1 lacrosse. so far not yet. Hopkins has had maybe 3 dozen non hotbed kids over the last decade and there have been some real success stories like tinney/pierce.
-If I'm a loyola person I'm pretty upset w/terry foy for that and for Inside Lacrosse that was really embarrassing. Aside from Duke it's hard to think of a program w/better academics who has had a better run than loyola the last 15 years. Putting Georgetown ahead of it, just a joke.
-Brown kept sailing because of ted turner+his $.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-the princeton stories-credit to those kids and editors are worth really reading themselves. Harvard finding that athletes w/bad grades 1,000 percent more likely to get in and remember this isn't counting the non athlete donor cases.
-The pieces make good points that these school diversity initiatives are having a side effect of encouraging these student athlete games. After Hopkins got rid of alumni preference in admissions and made a big show about the diversity of its incoming class I pointed out there were more bow ties than minorities on the football teams 2020 roster page. The current cover of hopkinsssports.com is a diversity series and there's only 4 out of 45 non white faces on the womens lacrosse team and most kids on the roster are from private schools.

[Blackdoglax]

I always felt that the “ Lars Tiffany”’s of the world could always find a helluva lacrosse players who looked like D1 football player from places like New Mexico, Oregon or South Dakota who plays for the latest Ubercool West Coast club, whose Mom and Dad are fly the friendly sky’s each weekend to the east coast for summer tournaments who are only to happy to donate to “Name your School” athletics AND get credit for getting a new candidate out of state and out of the normal footprint of their admissions......What’s the downside to “Lars”........

[jhu06]

I always felt that the “ Lars Tiffany”’s of the world could always find a helluva lacrosse players who looked like D1 football player from places like New Mexico, Oregon or South Dakota who plays for the latest Ubercool West Coast club, whose Mom and Dad are fly the friendly sky’s each weekend to the east coast for summer tournaments who are only to happy to donate to “Name your School” athletics AND get credit for getting a new candidate out of state and out of the normal footprint of their admissions......What’s the downside to “Lars”........

I liked the idea of parents founding a stanford lax program so their kids could go. Given the title 9 stuff, that's probably a 10 figure donation. I have no idea what you mean here, but I expect all these stories like this to change nothing. Schools may make movements towards wokeness-the adversity scores, getting rid of sats but they need someone to pay full freight and so I doubt they really screw w/athletics especially lacrosse.

[xxxxxxx]

I am far from a Lars fan but find it hard to believe he made those statements about Fairfield County players. Rich kids who haven’t had the umbilical cords cut, no way.

[Laxfan#1969]

on the lacrosse front
-Tiffany's comments were interesting. It's been one of the questions lingering over the sport for awhile which is when is the growth of the game into the sunbelt hotbeds that produce so much of the olympic sport, football, basketball talent going to start realizing itself in d1 lacrosse. so far not yet. Hopkins has had maybe 3 dozen non hotbed kids over the last decade and there have been some real success stories like tinney/pierce.
-If I'm a loyola person I'm pretty upset w/terry foy for that and for Inside Lacrosse that was really embarrassing. Aside from Duke it's hard to think of a program w/better academics who has had a better run than loyola the last 15 years. Putting Georgetown ahead of it, just a joke.
-Brown kept sailing because of ted turner+his $.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-the princeton stories-credit to those kids and editors are worth really reading themselves. Harvard finding that athletes w/bad grades 1,000 percent more likely to get in and remember this isn't counting the non athlete donor cases.
-The pieces make good points that these school diversity initiatives are having a side effect of encouraging these student athlete games. After Hopkins got rid of alumni preference in admissions and made a big show about the diversity of its incoming class I pointed out there were more bow ties than minorities on the football teams 2020 roster page. The current cover of hopkinsssports.com is a diversity series and there's only 4 out of 45 non white faces on the womens lacrosse team and most kids on the roster are from private schools.

Agree with your comments on Loyola. Their resume is far better than Georgetown. Is Georgetown a great school...sure it is, but Loyola is top shelf when you build the combination of Academics AND lacrosse...Loyola plays all comers year in and year out...a great schedule...Georgetown could take a lesson on how to build a non conference schedule from Loyola...

Also interesting comments about non hotbed recruits...the fact is that if you got a kid from a non hotbed that is close to a player from a traditional lax recruiting ground...I'd take the outsider...the kid in most cases didn't get the coaching and once at school, his ceiling is much much higher...with college coaching...watch out

[bauer4429]

For me this article felt like a lead in to the “Varsity Blues” admission scandal and the lengths wealthy parents will go. Our son never played club since he was a multi sport athlete and the expense, but pretty much every player on his D1 college team had. I would love to see more coaches widen their scouting lenses to look beyond club. There’s a lot of talented athletes out there that get missed.

[GoBirds28]

Couple of thoughts after reading the article

1.it has been talked about many times on these boards about the effect Title IX has had on the growth of the Men's game in regards to programs. That said with the tremendous growth at the high school level in the past decade or so, we are seeing an influx of talent at the mid or lower level programs that has allowed them to better compete with the "blue blood"programs. We are seeing the opposite in the women's game, not enough depth of talent for the amount of programs that exist.
2. As my friend who still coaches puts it " not everyone can please at UVA or Duke and that's okay", there are plenty of D1,D2,D3 programs that would be happy to have a sound academic student who is a good lacrosse player. You can apply the same rational for academics .. not everyone can go to Harvard or Yale, im sure plenty of Patriot, SoCon, NESCAC, ODAC, Centennial Conference schools would fit that student just fine
3. I do think as we come out of the pandemic we will see some schools explore adding the mens game for the quick boost in tuition revenue. Obviously there will be the initial start up costs and Title IX hurdles but with the known decreasing college eligible populations in the North East; there is no doubt adding the mens program will make your school more marketable to that demographic

[palaxoff]

Interestingly, no real mention of the kids having fun playing. Parents can take the fun out of everything. Kind of sad kids are turning to booze and drugs to cope after they have reached their parents goal of getting into a school.

[DMac]

Turning to booze and drugs to cope after they have reached their parents goal of getting into a school?
Since when, the 60s, 50s, 40s, before? Unfortunately alcohol abuse has been more or less viewed as a
right of passage since pretty much forever (see Brett Kavanaugh, for example).
I found nothing in the article surprising, too many parents have swallowed hook, line, and sinker the
pitch of youth sports and what it's going to do for their kids if they dish out thousands a year. Pretty
crazy, IMO. The Thompson boys ever play on a $10K/yr club team? My youngest pays thousands a year
for his 10 yr old to play hockey (as well as spending several week ends in motel rooms for those must
participate in tournies), and has for a few years now. Personally, I find the whole scene revolting and
know darn well he will reap zero benefits as far as schollies and college go from his youth hockey days.
Youth sports is big money and plenty of suckers out there willing to pay. Caveat emptor.

[FMUBart]

Ah, the typical Fairfield County parent--they think $$$ gets you everything...we paid $10k/year for 11 years, does that mean your son was GUARANTEED anything?? Or, did they not see the money grab by the "elite" "select" "national team" club?

Tiffany is right, give me a great athlete who is non-entitled and a good coach will develop him. I remember a D1 coach telling me that many of the kids from the affluent suburbs were so entitled--you give them a stick, and then they ask if they can have two. Versus the typical upstate NY kid who was grateful to get any free swag...

[MDlaxfan76]

Wow. There’s a lot to unpack in that one! D1 growth not keeping up with high school? Certainly true. Essentially buying a start up program? Well, between NC, Darien and Greenwich $20 million is pocket change, money is certainly not a barrier to that and, it not being my money, I would love to see it the Gold Coast fund some startups. Title IX and antipathy towards the perceived lacrosse demographics however will not be so easily overcome.

After that, we go a bit off the rails. By playing lax (not hard to figure out who this is but no need to name names) he has taken himself out of contention for top schools without lax? But he can’t go to Ivys because it turns out the guys who go there are beasts? Lax mom confirmed they are “stallions” when she saw them at showcases? What the hell is that? Who exactly has he been playing against in the FCIAC and CONNY? I know club costs can be outrageous but $10,000 a year for 11 years? From when he was 7? If he was “rejected” 16 times (I’m not sure what that is supposed to mean), was he getting into those other schools anyway without lacrosse? News flash, the non-athletes who get into Columbia, Northwestern, Berkley, etc are academic stallions. Not a good look with those quotes.

This. When Stanford cut some varsity sports, they made it clear that alumni dedicated funding could not restore them. At Stanford, it was not about money (they have plenty, and they were not interested in more); it was about hate.

"hate" ?

pcowlax, yes, very bad look for that mom. Yikes.

Terry Foy's comment: clueless, part of the problem.

XXX, I fully believe that Lars made such a comment...he's quite blunt at times. He also makes clear that's the stereotype people think of and that he tries not to buy into it. But...

One pushback I'd have may be based on being a decade plus out of date, that most of these kids who do commit heavily (at least to our sport) actually have a good time playing the game. I certainly got that impression with my son and his buddies (college '16) who were similarly driven. Lots of others dropped off in intensity, but the ones who maintained were doing so based on their own internal drive, not their parents pushing...though the parents were certainly supportive. Yeah, some we saw were over the top...sideline behavior could be pretty awful.

That was a decade ago, we'd been through a rec ball phase and into club, hotbed (Baltimore) area but it wasn't all consuming and the boys all played multiple sports. My own son paid for most of his outside training by working at the workout facility training other kids, earning money and working out free himself, and he paid for much of his equipment over the years by doing chores, etc. If he hadn't loved the trainer and his enthusiasm for the kids, (including a substantial cohort of kids with Down and other syndromes) and loved the atmosphere there's no way he'd have done that. He was lucky. He had fun, it gave him self confidence as he trained others, and it brought him satisfaction.

I do recall his school admins counseling that he really wasn't the sort of exceptional athlete that typically was recruited at a high level, and to my surprise I needed to explain that he enjoyed what he was doing, that his athletic dream was simply to contribute to his high school team and let the chips fall from there. But that if he did manage to do that, given the level of his team, he'd be getting attention from Ivies and NESCACs and others with very challenging admission requirements. They were skeptical, given that, (like me!), his physical talents were limited, at least in comparison to those headed to pro football, etc. Meanwhile he was crushing the books too. All-Ivy player in college.

The article makes the current environment sound pretty darn brutal...and maybe I'm out of date.

The other pushback on this topic is that I think the athlete's journey can, and should, have benefits beyond admission to college. Other than the fun involved, the real value is learning through challenge and adversity to stretch oneself beyond one's comfort zone. If that's the parental goal of supporting their kids, great. Keep that front and center.

[Antonio114]

Lars Tiffany is making those comments when one of the best players in his tenure at Virginia is from Fairfield county, Michael Kraus. Of course Kraus is (I believe) a Starsia recruit and he is also gone now. However Xander Dickson, if the IL page is correct, is also from Fairfield county, or at least he went to a prep school there. He was also threatening to transfer this season after sitting out due to injury. Wonder how he feels about these comments? In a sense I agree with Lars, but it's quite the statement to put out there for an immensely popular news outlet with your name clearly attached to it.

[random observer]

In regards to Terry Foy's comments, it seems abundantly clear he's talking about these programs in the context of their academic standing, not the success of their lacrosse programs (the whole point of this article is parents using athletics to get their kid into their desired academic institution). Whether it was wise for Foy to make those comments publicly is certainly an interesting discussion to have, but I see no error in anything he said given the context. Academically speaking (at least as far as reputation is concerned), Yale > Georgetown > Loyola, and I really don't think it's debatable.

[laxpere]

Lars Tiffany is making those comments when one of the best players in his tenure at Virginia is from Fairfield county, Michael Kraus. Of course Kraus is (I believe) a Starsia recruit and he is also gone now. However Xander Dickson, if the IL page is correct, is also from Fairfield county, or at least he went to a prep school there. He was also threatening to transfer this season after sitting out due to injury. Wonder how he feels about these comments? In a sense I agree with Lars, but it's quite the statement to put out there for an immensely popular news outlet with your name clearly attached to it.

There are always exceptions to a gross generalization, but maybe Coach Tiffany's Fairfield County recruits at Brown and UVA were higher maintenance than expected and didn't pan out? MDlaxfan76 is spot on that Coach Tiffany is often blunt. You are correct about Dickson's background. Also, a goalie from the same prep school recently transferred from UVA to Penn.

Anyone have an idea of the list of possibilities for the "not-so-fancy college in the South"? High Point, Jacksonville, and Mercer? I agree with Random Observer's observation that it appears that Foy was commenting on academic rankings, not lacrosse.

[Typical Lax Dad]

In regards to Terry Foy's comments, it seems abundantly clear he's talking about these programs in the context of their academic standing, not the success of their lacrosse programs (the whole point of this article is parents using athletics to get their kid into their desired academic institution). Whether it was wise for Foy to make those comments publicly is certainly an interesting discussion to have, but I see no error in anything he said given the context. Academically speaking (at least as far as reputation is concerned), Yale > Georgetown > Loyola, and I really don't think it's debatable.

Yes.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Lars Tiffany is making those comments when one of the best players in his tenure at Virginia is from Fairfield county, Michael Kraus. Of course Kraus is (I believe) a Starsia recruit and he is also gone now. However Xander Dickson, if the IL page is correct, is also from Fairfield county, or at least he went to a prep school there. He was also threatening to transfer this season after sitting out due to injury. Wonder how he feels about these comments? In a sense I agree with Lars, but it's quite the statement to put out there for an immensely popular news outlet with your name clearly attached to it.

There are always exceptions to a gross generalization, but maybe Coach Tiffany's Fairfield County recruits at Brown and UVA were higher maintenance than expected and didn't pan out? MDlaxfan76 is spot on that Coach Tiffany is often blunt. You are correct about Dickson's background. Also, a goalie from the same prep school recently transferred from UVA to Penn.

Anyone have an idea of the list of possibilities for the "not-so-fancy college in the South"? High Point, Jacksonville, and Mercer? I agree with Random Observer's observation that it appears that Foy was commenting on academic rankings, not lacrosse.

Lars made a funny comment about Larkin Kemp a few years ago. A writer commented on his frenzied style of playing...playing all over the field....Lars said “Larkin is from Greenwich, he plays like someone scratched his Mercedes”....it was actually funny. Lars found and made a lot of good players at Brown. Kemp being one of them.