Hobart 2025

[cooperstef]

Don't really care how this is taken tbh. Thinking about the entire year and what has happened post season has brought me to one conclusion. A large senior class is either a great or a bad thing. A large senior class with contributors and leaders can make for a great year. A large senior class with little success makes for a disaster. I know a lot of people on here look to the coach for the reason of an extremely disappointing season. You could be right, I don't know. I do know that the amount of time spent in the locker room with no coach at all is just as valuable in making a successful team as practice time is. I think the story of every lacrosse team starts 4 years prior. The senior class can determine what the year will look like no matter the ability of the players of that class. Do you think that the top player (who is a freshman) on this team left because of just only the coach? That is foolish. I think the coach determines the mindset and the work ethic. Everything in between is on the players and in the locker room. I'm pretty sure that everyone on here found a lot more solace in that room than they did the field. To have a team that loses more games year after year while a class progresses is something to consider. The only thing that is asked of you at Hobart is for you to leave it better than you entered. Also Hebrew Hammer, you're a loser. We know who you are. Don't talk to someone like that.

[Laxbro19]

The issues that are known are well known for anyone close to the program: Coaching style is militant, team is physically worked hard which leads to injuries and fatigue, large ego and stubbornness exists in Geneva, team is very close personally.These things have been consistent since 2014.

The issues that are more speculative: there appears to be a commitment to play players that have shown loyalty to the process over talent, communication issues between players and coaches.

I think the 5th year killed us. Instead of using this issue as a tool to improve our competitiveness, we used it as a way to keep mediocre players another year to pay $75k. Why start a grad program for lacrosse so that you can not use the portal and keep players in most cases who aren’t going to help us win. The ones that stayed just didn’t have any other options. And how many underclassman now have a 5th year because of injury or not playing. Look through the list - ditomasso, evnin, Dino quickly come to mind. Is this an administration strategy to support the grad program? I am, being serious on this question.

I really like the concept of building loyalty to the program by respecting older players as leaders so that they graduate and come back. And they donate money and help with job placement, etc. We just cant do it at the expense of being successful on the field and send a message to all the players that winning is secondary to the coaches style and making sure upperclassman leave happy. What D1 program plays that way? Raymond said on the podcast that he likes dogs, which are players that aren’t as good as the competitive who strive to outwork to succeed. That is the culture we are building in Geneva and this will lead us back to D3 at some point which is disappointing. Look at Jacksonville and tell me why we cant have their success?

[Farfromgeneva]

The issues that are known are well known for anyone close to the program: Coaching style is militant, team is physically worked hard which leads to injuries and fatigue, large ego and stubbornness exists in Geneva, team is very close personally.These things have been consistent since 2014.

The issues that are more speculative: there appears to be a commitment to play players that have shown loyalty to the process over talent, communication issues between players and coaches.

I think the 5th year killed us. Instead of using this issue as a tool to improve our competitiveness, we used it as a way to keep mediocre players another year to pay $75k. Why start a grad program for lacrosse so that you can not use the portal and keep players in most cases who aren’t going to help us win. The ones that stayed just didn’t have any other options. And how many underclassman now have a 5th year because of injury or not playing. Look through the list - ditomasso, evnin, Dino quickly come to mind. Is this an administration strategy to support the grad program? I am, being serious on this question.

I really like the concept of building loyalty to the program by respecting older players as leaders so that they graduate and come back. And they donate money and help with job placement, etc. We just cant do it at the expense of being successful on the field and send a message to all the players that winning is secondary to the coaches style and making sure upperclassman leave happy. What D1 program plays that way? Raymond said on the podcast that he likes dogs, which are players that aren’t as good as the competitive who strive to outwork to succeed. That is the culture we are building in Geneva and this will lead us back to D3 at some point which is disappointing. Look at Jacksonville and tell me why we cant have their success?

Definitely not to the bolded above. Know from the head of the program that they in fact rejected a number last year. The program needs to stand on its own and can’t nor was it ever intended to be a sports feeder. Early on they accepted everyone but I know the downs had to use chips to get some ina nd those not to for others. He used chips on some that definitely didn’t pay off. On top of
The Yanko move to get him back from McGill buy getting him more dough then proceeding to bury him on the bench. If we had a more serious admin he wouldn’t have any political capital anymore.

[oldbartman]

I could be wrong, but I think Jacksonville is a program that will be on the decline without the plethora of players they brought in through the portal. They've already had recruited players leave. After the '25 season the only players in the portal will be redshirts and undergrads, so expect the #s to drop drastically. It's not just Jville, Rutgers and OSU have been "beneficiaries" of the portal with obviously mixed results. For some players entering the portal, the 1st school they chose just wasn't right for them. For others, it could be knocking heads with the coach. Last but not least are the few who have inflated ideas of what their role should be on the team. While I do want Raymond to look for talent in the portal, he has to be careful to find guys that will fit at Hobart. Spending 2 to 4 years at a school that's not for you shouldn't happen in this environment.

[Laxbro19]

I could be wrong, but I think Jacksonville is a program that will be on the decline without the plethora of players they brought in through the portal. They've already had recruited players leave. After the '25 season the only players in the portal will be redshirts and undergrads, so expect the #s to drop drastically. It's not just Jville, Rutgers and OSU have been "beneficiaries" of the portal with obviously mixed results. For some players entering the portal, the 1st school they chose just wasn't right for them. For others, it could be knocking heads with the coach. Last but not least are the few who have inflated ideas of what their role should be on the team. While I do want Raymond to look for talent in the portal, he has to be careful to find guys that will fit at Hobart. Spending 2 to 4 years at a school that's not for you shouldn't happen in this environment.

I think the reason he doesn’t use the portal is that portal kids have options and leverage. And I don’t think he likes those kinds of kids.

[thehashslingingslash]

To be honest, I’ve been reading these past few days and have tried to keep my thoughts to myself but it’s past that. I played here for 4 years, as did all my all my classmates and the one thing that remained constant the whole time was loyalty. If these kids want to leave, and they think the grass is greener somewhere else then go. The truth is the grass is greener where you water it. They’ll realize they made a mistake soon enough and this will only make the team stronger and more motivated. It’s a different generation than my time and they’re all soft.

[Laxbro19]

To be honest, I’ve been reading these past few days and have tried to keep my thoughts to myself but it’s past that. I played here for 4 years, as did all my all my classmates and the one thing that remained constant the whole time was loyalty. If these kids want to leave, and they think the grass is greener somewhere else then go. The truth is the grass is greener where you water it. They’ll realize they made a mistake soon enough and this will only make the team stronger and more motivated. It’s a different generation than my time and they’re all soft.

Clearly you played under a different coach

[FMUBart]

Surprised Faiola is in the portal..doesn't like his chances v Wilson?

[GaitsRightHand]

Hobart players in portal-
DANNY CAMPBELL
JACKSON FAIOLA
BROOKS RHINE
ANTHONY STILLWELL
CHRIS PATTERSON
JAMES GREENE
NICHOLAS GULLACE
LOUKAS SOTIROPOULOS-LAWRENCE
LIAM Mt DALY

[oldbartman]

Surprised Faiola is in the portal..doesn't like his chances v Wilson?

He wants to start, like everyone who competes for a position. Guess he didn't get enough assurance that he would have a real shot at the job. IMO, he's the better stopper. No offesne to Wilson, who has kept us in some games we would have been blown out in. I can't blame Faiola, but really would like him to stick around. Along with Faiola, Patterson, Stillwell and Rhine will probably be snapped up quickly. Not necessarily in that order. It's too bad as those 4 probably had bright futures at Hobart. All you can do is wish them well. and move on.

[Farfromgeneva]

Hobart players in portal-
DANNY CAMPBELL
JACKSON FAIOLA
BROOKS RHINE
ANTHONY STILLWELL
CHRIS PATTERSON
JAMES GREENE
NICHOLAS GULLACE
LOUKAS SOTIROPOULOS-LAWRENCE
LIAM Mt DALY

Greene is a semi starter and rising senior. Says a lot. Daly transferred in from stonybrook and wants out. 5 FR....Two starters and the other three could/should be eventually.

The Admin in geneva is behaving as managers and stewards like cops in the hood of LA and it almost gets to the point that they make decisions to benefit a local closed knit community over all of the community...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSDkU7H9eq4

At this rate in a few years we're going to pour one out for the homey known as Hobart lacrosse. If it comes to that I'm doing so with Mad Dog, formally known as 20/20.

[Bartfromboston]

Devastating

[Laxgunea]

RE: Greene, I'm not worried Great skill, hasn't hit his stride. Daly is behind Wilso and Faiola, and Faiola clearly doesn't like his chances. I'm not so sure he's better than Wilson. What I know is that Wilson's willing to fight it out. Stilwell and Campbell could be valuable one day, but if they're not happy, best of luck. Rhine is a hit but we've got some big guys to replace him. Rulings is listed as 6'5" and Weisz as 6'3" and 215. No one is irreplaceable .... except Patterson. That one I don't understand.
Is Hobart giving full scholarships this year? Could he be fishing for a full scholarship? ( I had thought we were giving half scholarship).
On another note, rumors of the school's demise are premature. Heard from a faculty member that they landed a 500 person class for next fall. Plus Gearan announced 100 mil to start the capital campaign.
Are all those portal guys from High Point seniors? UMass also had a few. Seniors?

[oldbartman]

We have 6 scholarships for what will be the '25 season (for the '24 recruiting class, but not just for the recruits, but for the whole team). Then 9 for the '26 season and the full 12.6 for the '27 season according to out athletic dept.. So I sincerely doubt any player is getting a full ride. From what I've been told by a couple of ACC coaches I've met, their usual offer for a 5 star recruit is a 75% athletic scholarship. If the player has outstanding grades, they can stack merit aid and maybe lower the athletic $$ to make it almost a full ride. The Ivies have a fairly liberal interpretation of need based aid. With multiple billion $$ endowments, money usually isn't an issue if the student athlete doesn't dent the academic index. I would imagine B1G and other schools try to use the ACC model. Since we only had 3 scholarships for this season and 6 for '25, it's doubtful the coaches would hand out a full or even 75% athletic scholarship to anyone, Patterson included. Since we are probably losing 3 to 5 guys who would have been key players going forward, Coach Raymond will have to hard go for some top kids come September 1. There are some really good ones in our own back yard. We'll see.

[Laxbro19]

RE: Greene, I'm not worried Great skill, hasn't hit his stride. Daly is behind Wilso and Faiola, and Faiola clearly doesn't like his chances. I'm not so sure he's better than Wilson. What I know is that Wilson's willing to fight it out. Stilwell and Campbell could be valuable one day, but if they're not happy, best of luck. Rhine is a hit but we've got some big guys to replace him. Rulings is listed as 6'5" and Weisz as 6'3" and 215. No one is irreplaceable .... except Patterson. That one I don't understand.
Is Hobart giving full scholarships this year? Could he be fishing for a full scholarship? ( I had thought we were giving half scholarship).
On another note, rumors of the school's demise are premature. Heard from a faculty member that they landed a 500 person class for next fall. Plus Gearan announced 100 mil to start the capital campaign.
Are all those portal guys from High Point seniors? UMass also had a few. Seniors?

Replying to a few threads. Wilson is solid, so is Fiala. Fiala is a local kid and probably thought when he committed that he was going to start or have a good shot because that was before Wilson ever showed. Things change - if I were Fiala I wouldnt sit and wait for potentially your senior year to ever play. I am not sure he will ever beat out Wilson but it would be really nice to have him in case.

On Stillwell, Campbell, Greene - Greene should have played more. That is a ridiculous situation because he was much more skilled than Cardinali. So maybe Greene just didnt show in practice, didnt have the focus or interest, who knows. But coach should really be held accountable on that specific decision. To me that is a sign that he is overly focused on playing seniors. And we know that is just as much Brundage because Raymond doesnt call the offense. Campbell is tough one because we dont know much about his upside given where we came from. The competition is not at the same caliber as upstate or boston or even Denver. Stillwell puzzles me because he seems to have been a top player at the high school lever - UA all-American, Showtime All Star, All-ISL twice. So maybe he didnt show as well as we hoped — or maybe he is in the same camp as Greene in that they got pushed off to the side to play upperclassmen.

Patterson to me highlights the biggest issue. He wouldnt have come to Hobart “hoping” he would get scholarship money. He committed before we had scholarship money. I know this one well, he had numerous offers from very good scholarship programs. Why he chose Hobart, I have less insight. He was an All-American and if you go through this younger class - Patterson, Evnin, Valent, Stillwell, Shellenberg, Swisher, Race, Dino, Schleicher, Rhine, Nicolas S, Cabo, Fiala - I am probably missing kids - apologies- Why would Patterson go? So I two theories - one is just life - he can parlay his success into something more. And two - he didn’t see a path to us winning. Which to that I say why??

The one thing I point to that was heartbreaking was when Baker asked coach about the end of season awards and he just blew them off. Kind of almost suggested he could care less about recognition. He backtracked a little, not much, when i think he processed what he said. Chris Patterson should have been recognized at the national level which would have helped Bart tremendously in recruiting. Ryan Archer’s success reminded really great players that we are a historic and successful program. You have to use those opportunities to highlight the program and for him to just minimize those awards, i thought was symbolic and I fear might have been exactly why we are we are.

[Farfromgeneva]

RE: Greene, I'm not worried Great skill, hasn't hit his stride. Daly is behind Wilso and Faiola, and Faiola clearly doesn't like his chances. I'm not so sure he's better than Wilson. What I know is that Wilson's willing to fight it out. Stilwell and Campbell could be valuable one day, but if they're not happy, best of luck. Rhine is a hit but we've got some big guys to replace him. Rulings is listed as 6'5" and Weisz as 6'3" and 215. No one is irreplaceable .... except Patterson. That one I don't understand.
Is Hobart giving full scholarships this year? Could he be fishing for a full scholarship? ( I had thought we were giving half scholarship).
On another note, rumors of the school's demise are premature. Heard from a faculty member that they landed a 500 person class for next fall. Plus Gearan announced 100 mil to start the capital campaign.
Are all those portal guys from High Point seniors? UMass also had a few. Seniors?

Freshman in bulk and kids who’ve had plenty of PT and are seniors who would have to transfer partial credit and add a year of school. Not Sophs, not anyone sticking out like Knox did. So whatever Greene isn’t and if the loss isn’t catastrophic we have to look at a program where kids are happier gone even when they have to make meaningful personal sacrifices to do so and are highly uncommon. Last sentiment transfer I recall was the reading scorer of Fairfield to
Marquette and that was a dumpster fire with a problem kid.

So multiple FR starters and a senior isn’t about whether they specifically matter to next years production as much as what does it signal about the entire environment and situation.

I had a boss at a fund in NY who uses to say no one is f**king irreplaceable, you could take me out one day, but I hope you’ll remember what I did for you then. But nobody matters more than the machine. No one.” I agree. But I think when we say that we should be looking at the numbers as see many out or looking to get out and horrible results as well and say who’s more replaceable? The numerous started and important pieces (to a coach who runs a very thin rotation to begin with) all running for the hills or the guy who al way points fingers at everyone else and sells how good he’s doing while no one else is satisfied. Not even his biggest supporters can be satisfied. So you’ve got kids making sacrifices and taking action and adult hanging in there and taking no responsibility and blaming others while never adjusting or iterating anything he does?

Everyone IS replaceable. Especially the coach who’s a paid agent for the institution rather than the kids who committed originally to carry a Hobart degree for the rest of their lives into the world? They are our future ambassadors not a rent seeking coach who thinks about themselves first.

[Farfromgeneva]

RE: Greene, I'm not worried Great skill, hasn't hit his stride. Daly is behind Wilso and Faiola, and Faiola clearly doesn't like his chances. I'm not so sure he's better than Wilson. What I know is that Wilson's willing to fight it out. Stilwell and Campbell could be valuable one day, but if they're not happy, best of luck. Rhine is a hit but we've got some big guys to replace him. Rulings is listed as 6'5" and Weisz as 6'3" and 215. No one is irreplaceable .... except Patterson. That one I don't understand.
Is Hobart giving full scholarships this year? Could he be fishing for a full scholarship? ( I had thought we were giving half scholarship).
On another note, rumors of the school's demise are premature. Heard from a faculty member that they landed a 500 person class for next fall. Plus Gearan announced 100 mil to start the capital campaign.
Are all those portal guys from High Point seniors? UMass also had a few. Seniors?

We have a large class specifically because Tom Drennan worked the scene around wells and cherry picked some talent upgrades and also getting 40 new students. That guy should be running the colleges straight up. His job whatever it is for eternity should be endowed.

[Farfromgeneva]

Taking a step back in my view no one has left yet and may all come back except graduates. They are statesmen today so it might make sense to be aware when going down the oath of super aggressive “you didn’t dump me, I dumped you” types of good riddance attitude. It’s pretty fair to allow these kids to see what the option of the portal might provide and maybe that’s all it is for some. I don’t indict the kids for throwing their name into the hat. I wouldn’t even hold it against the staff except the volume, types of kids and other factors related support a clear issue beyond normal frictions.

I do always look back to when senior top scorer and talented kid Matt Opsahl quit and did t play his senior year being told he was totally burnt out. We all waived that off too.

[Laxgunea]

Ffg, I agree with your last post. I just don't know what to conclude about the portal stuff. COVID, 5th year, grad students, NIL, scholarships, etc.... have changed everything.
Opsahl was a great player, but I took him at his word that he had lost the joy of playing. I think he was close to teammates and coaches ... I may be mistaken, but I think he hunted with Terry Muffley ... but he didn't like playing at Hobart anymore.

[Laxgunea]

As for Tom saving the day ... get a second opinion. What you said sounded like it came from Drennen himself. I don't buy it. He can't get along with his own department, much less run the school. There's about 9 apps from Wells, and no deposits from them yet. Talking to Drennen about MGMT is like talking to Raymond about Hobart lacrosse. Each has inside information and knows a lot, but both spin like There's no tomorrow.