Coaches Fired for Cause

[FMUBart]

The buzzwords "lack of institutional control" are thrown around a lot. FWIW, I'm not in favor of any coach getting fired for a player's dumb decision. I suppose any alleged transgression by a student-athlete should be reviewed independently(but no one asked me!).

[ICGrad]

By this math, I was hazed every weekend of my freshman year... in all seriousness though, I get that it falls on the coach. Just think it's hard to put the blame on a guy that didn't even know the party was happening. Would the alternative be to have all HC's knowing all of the teams business? College would be a lot less fun.

The De Luca incident has to be taken in the larger context, too.

A Cornell freshman has just died in a hazing incident at a fraternity party. Cornell was very publicly and aggressively cracking down on hazing, and the president of the university had written a column in the New York Times calling for an end to hazing and promising to do his best to eradicate it at Cornell. IIRC, this wasn't the first such incident under De Luca's watch, and I believe the AD felt that he hadn't taken the issue seriously and hadn't been sincere in his efforts to address it with his team.

So when the incident in question happened - after all of the above - yes, it made sense to hold the coach accountable.

The team is lucky the AD only fired the coach and cancelled the Fall season, and didn't cancel the regular season/disband the team. Talk about being tone deaf...

[keno in reno]

Starsia: Had one of his athletes murder a UVA woman’s player. Not fired immediately

Pressler: His team hired a couple of cheap, low grade hookers on Spring Break which turned South

Thompson - Amherst: Players allegedly had racial allegations on dorms

Bates: Princeton, illegal elbow to a player actually playing?

What else?

This is a ridiculous post - admin should have it removed.

Looks like one of DocBarristers mentally unhinged out of touch twitter retweets or ‘original thoughts’.

Nah … plenty of ignorant a$$holes on this forum.

Look in the mirror, toad.

DocBarrister

was waiting for King Clown to reply. Was curious how someone who describes themselves as a physician attorney or father looks in the mirror when only fellow clowns claim them. No actual father would be such a clueless simp

Internet tuff guy flexes on a highly accomplished person and respected contributor of this forum. Be proud, internet tuff guy, and take your W!

This topic had no chance of going in any positive direction.

[LaxPundit07]

It wasn't about the truth in the Duke story (Which is the name of a book about the scandal)....Bad look 100000%....Politically motivated railroading also true...Duke and Nifong got hit in the piggy bank once the real truth came out...But the damage was already done...Duke Lacrosse will ALWAYS have that scar unfortunately

Pressler should've been fired for lack of supervision/control(similar to the Cornell hazing incident). Duke players were on campus during spring break and Pressler wasn't aware of the party? Plus, he was compensated mightily for his dismissal from Duke--not sure how much he made from his book?

I've heard from a '06 cuse alum... he said that Matt Danowski had some LI friends at Cuse. Cuse guys told Deno jr. that they threw a stripper party and it was awesome. So, Duke also wanted to throw one. Apparently, Duke didn't spend as much money on the entertainment as the Cuse boys did... gotta pay the premium.

I dont think blaming the coach for a spring break party is right. Unless he was there...

I doubt Deluca was present for the hazing incident...

What exactly was the hazing incident?

Not sure, and it may be an urban legend. Having said that, coaches are responsible--rightly or wrongly--for their athletes behavior(s).

Jimmy Patsos, longtime Maryland assistant basketball coach, and later Loyola and Siena head coach… Once famously said “I’ve got 18 to 22-year-olds dribbling my paycheck, how stressed do you think I am?” In response to being asked how stressful it was to coach.

On some level, it’s completely crazy that people would pay their mortgage by coaching, recruiting, and overseeing kids, whose brains haven’t fully developed while all those kids are going through the biggest jailbreak of their lives.

[keno in reno]

It wasn't about the truth in the Duke story (Which is the name of a book about the scandal)....Bad look 100000%....Politically motivated railroading also true...Duke and Nifong got hit in the piggy bank once the real truth came out...But the damage was already done...Duke Lacrosse will ALWAYS have that scar unfortunately

Pressler should've been fired for lack of supervision/control(similar to the Cornell hazing incident). Duke players were on campus during spring break and Pressler wasn't aware of the party? Plus, he was compensated mightily for his dismissal from Duke--not sure how much he made from his book?

I've heard from a '06 cuse alum... he said that Matt Danowski had some LI friends at Cuse. Cuse guys told Deno jr. that they threw a stripper party and it was awesome. So, Duke also wanted to throw one. Apparently, Duke didn't spend as much money on the entertainment as the Cuse boys did... gotta pay the premium.

I dont think blaming the coach for a spring break party is right. Unless he was there...

I doubt Deluca was present for the hazing incident...

What exactly was the hazing incident?

Not sure, and it may be an urban legend. Having said that, coaches are responsible--rightly or wrongly--for their athletes behavior(s).

Jimmy Patsos, longtime Maryland assistant basketball coach, and later Loyola and Siena head coach… Once famously said “I’ve got 18 to 22-year-olds dribbling my paycheck, how stressed do you think I am?” In response to being asked how stressful it was to coach.

On some level, it’s completely crazy that people would pay their mortgage by coaching, recruiting, and overseeing kids, whose brains haven’t fully developed while all those kids are going through the biggest jailbreak of their lives.

He also self-melted with some odd sideline behavior like going into the stands during a game, and double/triple teaming Steph just to keep him scoreless while his team lost by 30 playing 3 against 4

[LaxPundit07]

It wasn't about the truth in the Duke story (Which is the name of a book about the scandal)....Bad look 100000%....Politically motivated railroading also true...Duke and Nifong got hit in the piggy bank once the real truth came out...But the damage was already done...Duke Lacrosse will ALWAYS have that scar unfortunately

Pressler should've been fired for lack of supervision/control(similar to the Cornell hazing incident). Duke players were on campus during spring break and Pressler wasn't aware of the party? Plus, he was compensated mightily for his dismissal from Duke--not sure how much he made from his book?

I've heard from a '06 cuse alum... he said that Matt Danowski had some LI friends at Cuse. Cuse guys told Deno jr. that they threw a stripper party and it was awesome. So, Duke also wanted to throw one. Apparently, Duke didn't spend as much money on the entertainment as the Cuse boys did... gotta pay the premium.

I dont think blaming the coach for a spring break party is right. Unless he was there...

I doubt Deluca was present for the hazing incident...

What exactly was the hazing incident?

Not sure, and it may be an urban legend. Having said that, coaches are responsible--rightly or wrongly--for their athletes behavior(s).

Jimmy Patsos, longtime Maryland assistant basketball coach, and later Loyola and Siena head coach… Once famously said “I’ve got 18 to 22-year-olds dribbling my paycheck, how stressed do you think I am?” In response to being asked how stressful it was to coach.

On some level, it’s completely crazy that people would pay their mortgage by coaching, recruiting, and overseeing kids, whose brains haven’t fully developed while all those kids are going through the biggest jailbreak of their lives.

He also self-melted with some odd sideline behavior like going into the stands during a game, and double/triple teaming Steph just to keep him scoreless while his team lost by 30 playing 3 against 4

Yea, I think you missed my point. Replace Patsos with Joe Schmoe....the quote was what stuck with me.

[Farfromgeneva]

Using your logic Bart where does it end? Are AD's responsible as well? They hire, set department expectations, monitor coaches. Fire the coach for culture then I guess everyone has to go.

Yes and ours got a free pass for years so Hobart folks know what an inept AD looks like.

[Farfromgeneva]

It wasn't about the truth in the Duke story (Which is the name of a book about the scandal)....Bad look 100000%....Politically motivated railroading also true...Duke and Nifong got hit in the piggy bank once the real truth came out...But the damage was already done...Duke Lacrosse will ALWAYS have that scar unfortunately

Pressler should've been fired for lack of supervision/control(similar to the Cornell hazing incident). Duke players were on campus during spring break and Pressler wasn't aware of the party? Plus, he was compensated mightily for his dismissal from Duke--not sure how much he made from his book?

I've heard from a '06 cuse alum... he said that Matt Danowski had some LI friends at Cuse. Cuse guys told Deno jr. that they threw a stripper party and it was awesome. So, Duke also wanted to throw one. Apparently, Duke didn't spend as much money on the entertainment as the Cuse boys did... gotta pay the premium.

I dont think blaming the coach for a spring break party is right. Unless he was there...

Here’s the thing I know for a fact that Duke has a continent annually of players who may like the yayo. You think they buy some street “Charlie” from a woman who looks looked that stripper and party w fentanyl and acetone or get clean stuff from a decent source and pay up? But then they go cheap on women who can do god knows what to your body and immune system?

You’re a LI guy so a metaphor might be like double wrap while dating girls around the LIE and marry the ones closer to the shores.

[Farfromgeneva]

Starsia: Had one of his athletes murder a UVA woman’s player. Not fired immediately

Pressler: His team hired a couple of cheap, low grade hookers on Spring Break which turned South

Thompson - Amherst: Players allegedly had racial allegations on dorms

Bates: Princeton, illegal elbow to a player actually playing?

What else?

Starsia - there was a lawsuit filed that pretty much tied UVA and Dom together for a time

shocker, ocanada back with this. if that were even remotely true, why did starsia's tenure end the way it did?

Shocker yourself. Them is the facts. Apparently i know the situation better than you do. You have continuously tried to minimize the reality. Call the Commonwealth Attorney if the same is still in office or the AD at the time.

I don’t know about a lawsuit but I do know that for Dom to not be aware of the kids personality and anger issues would be near impossible as many were familiar with it already. That’s not good in general then you throw in the bratten brothers from LI and a few other situations (goalie in Dewey or Reheboth arrested for rush which is college but also a public problem for Dom, if want can tie road raging maniac fifth yr he took in from Bucknell with the arrest in the Hamptons-it started to add up like the arrest count annually in the ajc for the UGA football team)not was clear he got too loose in the back end like Urick, desks and Petro. And how UNC seems perpetually.

[ah23]

I get that it falls on the coach. Just think it's hard to put the blame on a guy that didn't even know the party was happening. Would the alternative be to have all HC's knowing all of the teams business? College would be a lot less fun.

Whether or not a coach actively knows about a specific party (or other team issue; just going with the example), I think it can be fair to hold them responsible. The team is ultimately theirs; they create the culture and set the standards for what does and doesn’t fly in their program.

[enterprise]

By this math, I was hazed every weekend of my freshman year... in all seriousness though, I get that it falls on the coach. Just think it's hard to put the blame on a guy that didn't even know the party was happening. Would the alternative be to have all HC's knowing all of the teams business? College would be a lot less fun.

The De Luca incident has to be taken in the larger context, too.

A Cornell freshman has just died in a hazing incident at a fraternity party. Cornell was very publicly and aggressively cracking down on hazing, and the president of the university had written a column in the New York Times calling for an end to hazing and promising to do his best to eradicate it at Cornell. IIRC, this wasn't the first such incident under De Luca's watch, and I believe the AD felt that he hadn't taken the issue seriously and hadn't been sincere in his efforts to address it with his team.

So when the incident in question happened - after all of the above - yes, it made sense to hold the coach accountable.

The team is lucky the AD only fired the coach and cancelled the Fall season, and didn't cancel the regular season/disband the team. Talk about being tone deaf...

I had hoped that this thread would be shut down before this. But since it continues to exist, I feel the need to combat the myth that Ben DeLuca was fired because of the hazing incident involving his lacrosse team. I defy anyone who supports this conclusion to provide PROOF that this is the reason De Luca left Cornell. I have been involved with the Cornell team in many capacities in addition to being a fan for more than 40 years. The AD who fired DeLuca is a personal friend as are other senior administrators at Cornell. No one has ever publicly disclosed the reason DeLuca left Cornell. No one involved in making the decision has spoken publicly about the rationale. So any posting here about hazing as the cause is nothing more than speculation. Do I know why Ben lost his job? No, I do not. The AD once told me that someday he might be able to share but that day has not yet arrived. And he is no longer the AD so I may never know.

[10stone5]

Besides which,

DeLuca looks like he has learned whatever lessons he needed to learn from his time at Cornell and applied those lessons to his Delaware coaching tenure,

that team - from what I’ve seen - is a no nonsense team, where DeLuca has instilled a winning culture.

[laxfan1313]

By this math, I was hazed every weekend of my freshman year... in all seriousness though, I get that it falls on the coach. Just think it's hard to put the blame on a guy that didn't even know the party was happening. Would the alternative be to have all HC's knowing all of the teams business? College would be a lot less fun.

The De Luca incident has to be taken in the larger context, too.

A Cornell freshman has just died in a hazing incident at a fraternity party. Cornell was very publicly and aggressively cracking down on hazing, and the president of the university had written a column in the New York Times calling for an end to hazing and promising to do his best to eradicate it at Cornell. IIRC, this wasn't the first such incident under De Luca's watch, and I believe the AD felt that he hadn't taken the issue seriously and hadn't been sincere in his efforts to address it with his team.

So when the incident in question happened - after all of the above - yes, it made sense to hold the coach accountable.

The team is lucky the AD only fired the coach and cancelled the Fall season, and didn't cancel the regular season/disband the team. Talk about being tone deaf...

I had hoped that this thread would be shut down before this. But since it continues to exist, I feel the need to combat the myth that Ben DeLuca was fired because of the hazing incident involving his lacrosse team. I defy anyone who supports this conclusion to provide PROOF that this is the reason De Luca left Cornell. I have been involved with the Cornell team in many capacities in addition to being a fan for more than 40 years. The AD who fired DeLuca is a personal friend as are other senior administrators at Cornell. No one has ever publicly disclosed the reason DeLuca left Cornell. No one involved in making the decision has spoken publicly about the rationale. So any posting here about hazing as the cause is nothing more than speculation. Do I know why Ben lost his job? No, I do not. The AD once told me that someday he might be able to share but that day has not yet arrived. And he is no longer the AD so I may never know.

I 100% agree with Enterprise. My relationship to Big Red lacrosse is similar to his including a 40+ year friendship with the former AD and a long time friendship with Ben since his playing days. I have no idea why Ben became Cornell's former coach. The former AD never told me and, frankly, I didn't ask him nor have I asked Ben. I was castigated by a few of the local trolls who presumed I knew something and refused to share it, despite the fact that I pointed out to them that personnel matters are maintained confidential. Even Coach Moran, who was Ben's Cornell coach, knew nothing. I did ask him. We'll have to wait for Ben's autobiography to see if he says anything. Frankly, I doubt he would because it would require him to reveal private details about other people. The same goes for the former AD. Hopefully, this thread will soon end. People who post here and think they have the right to know about private personnel matters as well as the medical condition of a player (another issue) are mistaken. GO BIG RED!

[ICGrad]

...I feel the need to combat the myth that Ben DeLuca was fired because of the hazing incident involving his lacrosse team.

Ok; fair enough.

Ben De Luca, a highly successful lacrosse coach and alum, was fired with cause in the wake of a highly public and embarrassing hazing scandal involving the Cornell lacrosse team, a scandal which resulted in the cancellation of the team's Fall season.

Perhaps these two events are unconnected. Perhaps not. I do remember there being some criticism regarding the lack of transparency for De Luca's firing at the time it happened.

That said, to reframe the larger point I was trying to make (in response to a post suggesting that "boys-will-be-boys"): the hazing incident itself, given the overall environment at Cornell at the time in the wake of a recent death of a student in a similar incident, would have been cause enough to fire him. Were there other transgressions as well? True, we don't know, but this was not some knee-jerk reaction by an AD.

[ICGrad]

People who post here and think they have the right to know about private personnel matters as well as the medical condition of a player (another issue) are mistaken.

I mean, not really a "private personnel matter." The termination of a very successful head coach mere months before a highly-anticipated season (and in the wake of aforementioned scandal swirling around the team) is hardly private.

And I'm not sure I mentioned anything about the medical condition of a player. Is this some hint as to other reasons behind his firing? If so, are you trolling us by being the one to bring it up? ("Medical condition of a player? What medical condition of a player?!?"...lol). I mean, do tell...

But yes, I agree that I have no right to any private information re: the medical conditions of players, and I don't believe I've ever claimed otherwise.

[MDlaxfan76]

This is a rather ugly thread in its discussion of specific people by those with usually imperfect information. On the other hand, the general topic of what should and should not be a firing “ for cause” issue is perhaps productive.

I have rather strong feelings about a couple of these situations, and more (albeit imperfect) knowledge of some specifics than perhaps many readers, however I think the discussion would be more productive if less specific and more hypothetical.

For instance, if a coach was aware of multiple events of police response to neighbor complaints at an off campus ‘lacrosse house’ parties involving under age drinking and did not take disciplinary action or took such light handed action that it continued, escalating to a major public attention event, would that justify firing?

Or if a coach had a series of team behavior traumas yet expressed that it wasn’t his or her responsibility to shape such off field behavior would that justify firing ?

Or if a coach was well aware of a long standing hazing practice and well aware of a new no tolerance for hazing policy and failed to take sufficient actions with team and captains and then the hazing became public would that constitute a firing offense? What if he or she pushed back against the AD?

How about a coach misreporting camp income which should have been shared with the host college?

How about an “abusive” coach?

How about a racist incident? How about a series of racist incidents? Does it matter how the coach does or does not respond?

These are all themes that have applied to one or typically more than one mens or women’s lax coach in the last 15 or so years. There are probably others…

Now, should the college detail its rationale publicly or are the reasons legal land mines that require silence?

What does bother me is the ‘old boy’ or ‘old gal’ protection and white washing of why some of the coaches were terminated. I get the impulse (and certainly the legal necessity for silence) but it’s disturbing when the issues aren’t confronted honestly and instead the coaches are recommended for other positions regardless of whether the coach has themself taken public ownership of past errors. I’m all for second chances, but only if there’s real change. Seems to me that there are lots of other people seeking opportunities in coaching without such baggage.

[laxfan1313]

People who post here and think they have the right to know about private personnel matters as well as the medical condition of a player (another issue) are mistaken.

I mean, not really a "private personnel matter." The termination of a very successful head coach mere months before a highly-anticipated season (and in the wake of aforementioned scandal swirling around the team) is hardly private.

And I'm not sure I mentioned anything about the medical condition of a player. Is this some hint as to other reasons behind his firing? If so, are you trolling us by being the one to bring it up? ("Medical condition of a player? What medical condition of a player?!?"...lol). I mean, do tell...

But yes, I agree that I have no right to any private information re: the medical conditions of players, and I don't believe I've ever claimed otherwise.

I was clear that the medical condition issue is separate from Ben's situation. That's just another example of a situation that remains private, yet some on this website think they have the right to know about. We'll have to agree to disagree regarding personnel matters. If you just have to know, just phone Ben at Delaware and ask him. I'll refrain from commenting on MD76's usual "War & Peace" post. Let this thread die!

[wgdsr]

Starsia: Had one of his athletes murder a UVA woman’s player. Not fired immediately

Pressler: His team hired a couple of cheap, low grade hookers on Spring Break which turned South

Thompson - Amherst: Players allegedly had racial allegations on dorms

Bates: Princeton, illegal elbow to a player actually playing?

What else?

Starsia - there was a lawsuit filed that pretty much tied UVA and Dom together for a time

shocker, ocanada back with this. if that were even remotely true, why did starsia's tenure end the way it did?

Shocker yourself. Them is the facts. Apparently i know the situation better than you do. You have continuously tried to minimize the reality. Call the Commonwealth Attorney if the same is still in office or the AD at the time.

so won't answer then? when was the lawsuit in the rear view mirror? and if they were tied at the hip to it, why was starsia offered a multi-year extension in 2016, but told he needed to drop his assistant(s)? because that sounds like the one thing an ad wouldn't have done no matter when the lawsuit was no longer active if what you're saying had any merit.

[laxfan1313]

Starsia: Had one of his athletes murder a UVA woman’s player. Not fired immediately

Pressler: His team hired a couple of cheap, low grade hookers on Spring Break which turned South

Thompson - Amherst: Players allegedly had racial allegations on dorms

Bates: Princeton, illegal elbow to a player actually playing?

What else?

Starsia - there was a lawsuit filed that pretty much tied UVA and Dom together for a time

shocker, ocanada back with this. if that were even remotely true, why did starsia's tenure end the way it did?

Shocker yourself. Them is the facts. Apparently i know the situation better than you do. You have continuously tried to minimize the reality. Call the Commonwealth Attorney if the same is still in office or the AD at the time.

so won't answer then? when was the lawsuit in the rear view mirror? and if they were tied at the hip to it, why was starsia offered a multi-year extension in 2016, but told he needed to drop his assistant(s)? because that sounds like the one thing an ad wouldn't have done no matter when the lawsuit was no longer active if what you're saying had any merit.

FWIW, the commonwealth attorneys only deal with criminal matters. A lawsuit is civil. Virginia Court records for the Albemarle County, VA Circuit Court have no record of Starsia as a party to a lawsuit or a criminal matter.

[MDlaxfan76]

People who post here and think they have the right to know about private personnel matters as well as the medical condition of a player (another issue) are mistaken.

I mean, not really a "private personnel matter." The termination of a very successful head coach mere months before a highly-anticipated season (and in the wake of aforementioned scandal swirling around the team) is hardly private.

And I'm not sure I mentioned anything about the medical condition of a player. Is this some hint as to other reasons behind his firing? If so, are you trolling us by being the one to bring it up? ("Medical condition of a player? What medical condition of a player?!?"...lol). I mean, do tell...

But yes, I agree that I have no right to any private information re: the medical conditions of players, and I don't believe I've ever claimed otherwise.

I was clear that the medical condition issue is separate from Ben's situation. That's just another example of a situation that remains private, yet some on this website think they have the right to know about. We'll have to agree to disagree regarding personnel matters. If you just have to know, just phone Ben at Delaware and ask him. I'll refrain from commenting on MD76's usual "War & Peace" post. Let this thread die!

W&P

Again, I just think the discussion of specific people, especially about long ago matters with which we definitely all have imperfect information, is more divisive than productive.

On the other hand, if you guys want to argue about specific people, whether DeLuca or Starsia or whoever, no one can stop you. I 100% understand that when there's actual misinformation being spread, it begs for a correction.

I just think the white washing in sports re coaches is problematic...for the players. Which would be my chief priority. Totally different if a coach wants to own up about whatever errors they may have made, but let's not pretend they're 100% blameless and go after AD's instead. Of course, AD's can get it wrong too...