NESCAC

[DeepPocket]

…Depends on who/what position(s), but…I think the answer is a lot. The NESCAC is way too good, and lacrosse is too much of a team game for a couple of guys to turn an 0-10 team into the conference’s best.

C’mon, give a number. Or at least which positions you think would provide the most impact.

You think O’Neill and Dyson Williams + a Bates attackman shooting on Tufts’ D wouldn’t outpace Tufts’ attack shooting on Bates’ D?

I know that there’s other elements to the team game, but I think the potential scoring differential would be more than enough to offset the extra possessions a lopsided faceoff matchup provides etc.

It’s all hypothetical anyways. Let’s not let the overarching narrative every NESCAC poster seems to have to pledge allegiance to, that NESCAC is as good as DI, prevent any fun discourse.

[choochooCharlie]

I’ll say this, all the NESCAC dads on here know what DI offers their sons got. They could’ve “gone DI,” but chose the academics/notoriety of the NESCAC. That’s commendable, and no one can take that away from them. That’s where it ends. Their sons weren’t finished products coming out of high school. If they think that their sons wouldn’t be stronger, and more skilled, after 4 years of the added training and practice that a DI regimen mandates, they’re out to lunch. Meanwhile, similarly talented players coming out of high school (maybe just as academically gifted/driven, maybe not) DID chose DI, and did have the rigorous DI regimen for 4+ years. Remember when your kid was young, all the things you would tell him about how wallball would improve his skills? Well it turns out you were right, more practice actually makes you better. The rest boils down to coaching. Imagine how great Coach D’Annolfo would have these kids playing if he got the time of practice that DI offers?

[laxdad1434]

…Depends on who/what position(s), but…I think the answer is a lot. The NESCAC is way too good, and lacrosse is too much of a team game for a couple of guys to turn an 0-10 team into the conference’s best.

C’mon, give a number. Or at least which positions you think would provide the most impact.

You think O’Neill and Dyson Williams + a Bates attackman shooting on Tufts’ D wouldn’t outpace Tufts’ attack shooting on Bates’ D?

I know that there’s other elements to the team game, but I think the potential scoring differential would be more than enough to offset the extra possessions a lopsided faceoff matchup provides etc.

It’s all hypothetical anyways. Let’s not let the overarching narrative every NESCAC poster seems to have to pledge allegiance to, that NESCAC is as good as DI, prevent any fun discourse.

[shorelax12]

Good for Babson! I grew up playing hockey there and it was certainly not considered a powerhouse of a school at the time.

Don’t want to sound NESCAC elitist (as my argument against the foolishness of thinking lower tier D1 could beat top D3 is not NESCAC specific) but any list that has Babson as a top 10 academic school in the country is crazier than laxdad.

NESCAC sycophants are in denial...Babson is a fantastic NESCAC adjacent option.. If Jr. wants to study business and entrepreneurship Babson is a premier spot...I know I'm not the only parent who would rather see my kid there than some of the lower ranked NESCAC's....

I completely agree on the Babson point, great school. Where I think that your argument goes a bit sideways is the comparison to "lower ranked NESCACs" As most, but obviously no all, on this forum understand, Babson has a great reputation, and is an amazing place if a student is looking for what they offer. What Babson does not offer, for better or worse, is the wide array of liberal arts courses offered by all of the NESCAC schools. However, if you interest is a strong undergraduate business degree, then other than some of the Ivies, or the other top business schools, Babson is a great option. In fact, some would suggest that the curriculum at Babson is more useful in the real world than that offered at some of the more prominent business programs. No dog in the fight as it relates to Babson, just know a bunch of really smart kids that go there, and play lacrosse, and a lot of very successful Babson grads.

[Laxattackjack]

I’ll say this, all the NESCAC dads on here know what DI offers their sons got. They could’ve “gone DI,” but chose the academics/notoriety of the NESCAC. That’s commendable, and no one can take that away from them. That’s where it ends. Their sons weren’t finished products coming out of high school. If they think that their sons wouldn’t be stronger, and more skilled, after 4 years of the added training and practice that a DI regimen mandates, they’re out to lunch. Meanwhile, similarly talented players coming out of high school (maybe just as academically gifted/driven, maybe not) DID chose DI, and did have the rigorous DI regimen for 4+ years. Remember when your kid was young, all the things you would tell him about how wallball would improve his skills? Well it turns out you were right, more practice actually makes you better. The rest boils down to coaching. Imagine how great Coach D’Annolfo would have these kids playing if he got the time of practice that DI offers?

You are implying that every D1 program has a better workout program /facilities and better coaching than top D3. They don’t. As I mentioned earlier, my son has ex teammates playing at all levels of college lax. Only two of them are playing with top 10 D1 programs. And yes, they are getting better coaching and have better facilities. Even some mid level programs like Navy have better facilities. But top D3 programs are having just as many lifting and practice days as D1 teams are getting. Salisbury and Tufts, have better coaching and facilities than lower D1 schools. Winter break is here now, and several of these D1 kids have come by the house. They all seem to be changing/growing at similar pace.
We have family friends and he has ex teammates at some of those lower level D1 programs that have been mentioned. They don’t have the same scholarship money or the same facilities as top level teams. And many top D3 programs have better facilities than lower level D1 facilities.

Your argument is solid, if we are talking about top 25 teams. But this conversation is about low level D1 programs vs top level D3.
These kids still get together for summer leagues and the kids from top D3 programs are comparable to the D1 kids.

[laxdad1434]

I’ll say this, all the NESCAC dads on here know what DI offers their sons got. They could’ve “gone DI,” but chose the academics/notoriety of the NESCAC. That’s commendable, and no one can take that away from them. That’s where it ends. Their sons weren’t finished products coming out of high school. If they think that their sons wouldn’t be stronger, and more skilled, after 4 years of the added training and practice that a DI regimen mandates, they’re out to lunch. Meanwhile, similarly talented players coming out of high school (maybe just as academically gifted/driven, maybe not) DID chose DI, and did have the rigorous DI regimen for 4+ years. Remember when your kid was young, all the things you would tell him about how wallball would improve his skills? Well it turns out you were right, more practice actually makes you better. The rest boils down to coaching. Imagine how great Coach D’Annolfo would have these kids playing if he got the time of practice that DI offers?

You are implying that every D1 program has a better workout program /facilities and better coaching than top D3. They don’t. As I mentioned earlier, my son has ex teammates playing at all levels of college lax. Only two of them are playing with top 10 D1 programs. And yes, they are getting better coaching and have better facilities. Even some mid level programs like Navy have better facilities. But top D3 programs are having just as many lifting and practice days as D1 teams are getting. Salisbury and Tufts, have better coaching and facilities than lower D1 schools. Winter break is here now, and several of these D1 kids have come by the house. They all seem to be changing/growing at similar pace.
We have family friends and he has ex teammates at some of those lower level D1 programs that have been mentioned. They don’t have the same scholarship money or the same facilities as top level teams. And many top D3 programs have better facilities than lower level D1 facilities.

Your argument is solid, if we are talking about top 25 teams. But this conversation is about low level D1 programs vs top level D3.
These kids still get together for summer leagues and the kids from top D3 programs are comparable to the D1 kids.

Man you're dense...Have you ever been in a "lower level D1" facility? Go to NJIT, Marist, Sacred Heart, Fairfield, you might change your mind. I've been to Salisbury, Dickinson, Stevens, Gettysburg, and none of those facilities compare to the aforementioned D1's. Scholarships in D1 lacrosse are like a pie, high recruits get a slice/sliver, until the 12.6 is gone. It's the same for Duke or NJIT.

[choochooCharlie]

… stronger, and more skilled, after 4 years of the added training and practice that a DI regimen mandates …
…The rest boils down to coaching. Imagine how great Coach D’Annolfo would have these kids playing if he got the time of practice that DI offers?

You are implying that every D1 program has a better workout program /facilities and better coaching than top D3. They don’t
…. But this conversation is about low level D1 programs vs top level D3.
These kids still get together for summer leagues and the kids from top D3 programs are comparable to the D1 kids.

What I’m talking about is the scheduled workouts and gameplay scenarios that you can’t do by yourself, in a gym (however fancy), at a wall, or with whatever 2-3 others players you happen be able to grab- the stuff that expanded practice opportunities at the DI level provide. And NESCAC is restricted to even less practice opportunities than standard DIII. Also, I’m saying the opposite about coaching. Some at DIII are even quite a bit better than their DI counterparts. I’m saying they just don’t get the added time to work with their players, across the board.

[Laxattackjack]

I don’t know the limits at NESCAC. But most top programs are using captains practice days and captains lift days. The coach is probably watching practice from his office.

[Laxxal22]

That’s where it ends. Their sons weren’t finished products coming out of high school. If they think that their sons wouldn’t be stronger, and more skilled, after 4 years of the added training and practice that a DI regimen mandates, they’re out to lunch. Meanwhile, similarly talented players coming out of high school (maybe just as academically gifted/driven, maybe not) DID chose DI, and did have the rigorous DI regimen for 4+ years.

Eh, I've known who were better coming out of high school and went D1 only to ride the bench and got their confidence destroyed/developed stalled, while teammates who were a step lower in high school and went D3 got on the field early had the opposite effect. By the summer after their sophomore years the kid wearing the D3 bucket was the better player. Not always the case, but certainly happens. D1 is a grind and some kids get ground up.

[choochooCharlie]

Eh, I've known who were better coming out of high school and went D1 only to ride the bench and got their confidence destroyed/developed stalled, while teammates who were a step lower in high school and went D3 got on the field early had the opposite effect. By the summer after their sophomore years the kid wearing the D3 bucket was the better player. Not always the case, but certainly happens. D1 is a grind and some kids get ground up.

And maybe they hit their personal ceiling early, or conversely, maybe the latter was a late bloomer. Maybe your hypothesis as to what caused the known outcome is correct, maybe not. Maybe pushing a kid to go out and hit the wall makes him better, maybe it makes him quit. “The same hot water that hardens the egg, softens the potato.” But nobody will ever convince me that practicing less will make you better at the desired skill set…

[Laxxal22]

Everything we've talked about for the last 12 pages of this thread here is anecdotal, subjective, and hypothetical. I agree that practice makes you better, but I'd also say there is no substitute for game experience.

[Laxattackjack]

Everything we've talked about for the last 12 pages of this thread here is anecdotal, subjective, and hypothetical. I agree that practice makes you better, but I'd also say there is no substitute for game experience.

But back to the original question. Yes, tufts would beat queens 10 out of 10 times.

[RE6ULATOR]

... “The same hot water that hardens the egg, softens the potato.” …

Late entry for NESCAC thread QOTY 2023.

[justanotherperson]

Eh, I've known who were better coming out of high school and went D1 only to ride the bench and got their confidence destroyed/developed stalled, while teammates who were a step lower in high school and went D3 got on the field early had the opposite effect. By the summer after their sophomore years the kid wearing the D3 bucket was the better player. Not always the case, but certainly happens. D1 is a grind and some kids get ground up.

And maybe they hit their personal ceiling early, or conversely, maybe the latter was a late bloomer. Maybe your hypothesis as to what caused the known outcome is correct, maybe not. Maybe pushing a kid to go out and hit the wall makes him better, maybe it makes him quit. “The same hot water that hardens the egg, softens the potato.” But nobody will ever convince me that practicing less will make you better at the desired skill set…

Mmmmm. Soft boiled egg, yummmmmm. Your fighting .gif and the other's monty python reference actually made me LOL

This does raise another question. We know that reclass is pretty much the majority for high D1 but how many of the low D1s have reclasses vs the high D3 where I dont think reclassing is as prevalent. Just one more factor when going head to head

Babson is a fantastic b-school, probably better than all the NESCACs for entrepeneurship but for a complete liberal arts education, really tough to beat some of those NESCACs

[OSVAlacrosse]

It seems like every off season there is some version of this same argument. It does make for some enjoyable reading when there are no games. Here are a few of my un requested opinions:

1. This really depends on what one considers a "low end" D1 team. Teams in the middle have potential to crack the top 20.
2. If your son is at a NESCAC school then great for them. Why the need to argue this point? I do not see a thread on the D1 section about Wagner 2024 arguing that these kids could have gone to Tufts?
3. Truth: Your kids did not get multiple D1 offers. Sorry that is just a fact. An offer comes on national signing day. This is not football. Kids do not get multiple D1 LOI and then put that hat on in front of camera's. Your kids may have gotten interest from D1 schools. Guess what for every kid a school is "interested" in they have 5-6 others at the same position. However that is also true for the NESCAC schools. But there is a huge difference between interest and offers.
4. This entire discussion has way too much of a North East bias. West Coast kids and Southern kids may not be very familiar with Tufts or Middleburry.
5. Most players are not choosing between low end D1 and NESCAC as they are schools that are so different. A Hampton or VMI commit probably goes there for very different reasons.
Finally, whoever posted that the kids at Staples, Lawrenceville, or Georgetown Prep who are not on the IL top 100 players list should really look at a NESCAC school: Isn't that exactly the profile of player they are already getting?

[shorelax12]

Eh, I've known who were better coming out of high school and went D1 only to ride the bench and got their confidence destroyed/developed stalled, while teammates who were a step lower in high school and went D3 got on the field early had the opposite effect. By the summer after their sophomore years the kid wearing the D3 bucket was the better player. Not always the case, but certainly happens. D1 is a grind and some kids get ground up.

And maybe they hit their personal ceiling early, or conversely, maybe the latter was a late bloomer. Maybe your hypothesis as to what caused the known outcome is correct, maybe not. Maybe pushing a kid to go out and hit the wall makes him better, maybe it makes him quit. “The same hot water that hardens the egg, softens the potato.” But nobody will ever convince me that practicing less will make you better at the desired skill set…

Mmmmm. Soft boiled egg, yummmmmm. Your fighting .gif and the other's monty python reference actually made me LOL

This does raise another question. We know that reclass is pretty much the majority for high D1 but how many of the low D1s have reclasses vs the high D3 where I dont think reclassing is as prevalent. Just one more factor when going head to head

Babson is a fantastic b-school, probably better than all the NESCACs for entrepeneurship but for a complete liberal arts education, really tough to beat some of those NESCACs

I suspect that most reclasses/PGs in D3 are reclasses/PGs that had hopes of getting a D1 offer, or a better D1 offer, and then end up playing D3 after that lucrative offer does not happen. So basically, a year of college level tuition to end up where they likely could have gone without the reclass/PG.

[Laxxal22]

It seems like every off season there is some version of this same argument. It does make for some enjoyable reading when there are no games. Here are a few of my un requested opinions:

1. This really depends on what one considers a "low end" D1 team. Teams in the middle have potential to crack the top 20.
2. If your son is at a NESCAC school then great for them. Why the need to argue this point? I do not see a thread on the D1 section about Wagner 2024 arguing that these kids could have gone to Tufts?
3. Truth: Your kids did not get multiple D1 offers. Sorry that is just a fact. An offer comes on national signing day. This is not football. Kids do not get multiple D1 LOI and then put that hat on in front of camera's. Your kids may have gotten interest from D1 schools. Guess what for every kid a school is "interested" in they have 5-6 others at the same position. However that is also true for the NESCAC schools. But there is a huge difference between interest and offers.
4. This entire discussion has way too much of a North East bias. West Coast kids and Southern kids may not be very familiar with Tufts or Middleburry.
5. Most players are not choosing between low end D1 and NESCAC as they are schools that are so different. A Hampton or VMI commit probably goes there for very different reasons.
Finally, whoever posted that the kids at Staples, Lawrenceville, or Georgetown Prep who are not on the IL top 100 players list should really look at a NESCAC school: Isn't that exactly the profile of player they are already getting?

1. Bottom 20
2. Laxdad started it
3. "Offer" in lacrosse often means chance to make a verbal commitment to the admissions process
4. Tons of CA, WA, CO kids on Tufts, Midd, etc. - Overall this is potentially more of a class argument than a regional one.
5. Yes, it's more of a NESCAC v. Holy Cross, Lafayette, Colgate choice.
Final point. Yup

[OSVAlacrosse]

It seems like every off season there is some version of this same argument. It does make for some enjoyable reading when there are no games. Here are a few of my un requested opinions:

1. This really depends on what one considers a "low end" D1 team. Teams in the middle have potential to crack the top 20.
2. If your son is at a NESCAC school then great for them. Why the need to argue this point? I do not see a thread on the D1 section about Wagner 2024 arguing that these kids could have gone to Tufts?
3. Truth: Your kids did not get multiple D1 offers. Sorry that is just a fact. An offer comes on national signing day. This is not football. Kids do not get multiple D1 LOI and then put that hat on in front of camera's. Your kids may have gotten interest from D1 schools. Guess what for every kid a school is "interested" in they have 5-6 others at the same position. However that is also true for the NESCAC schools. But there is a huge difference between interest and offers.
4. This entire discussion has way too much of a North East bias. West Coast kids and Southern kids may not be very familiar with Tufts or Middleburry.
5. Most players are not choosing between low end D1 and NESCAC as they are schools that are so different. A Hampton or VMI commit probably goes there for very different reasons.
Finally, whoever posted that the kids at Staples, Lawrenceville, or Georgetown Prep who are not on the IL top 100 players list should really look at a NESCAC school: Isn't that exactly the profile of player they are already getting?

1. Bottom 20
2. Laxdad started it
3. "Offer" in lacrosse often means chance to make a verbal commitment to the admissions process
4. Tons of CA, WA, CO kids on Tufts, Midd, etc. - Overall this is potentially more of a class argument than a regional one.
5. Yes, it's more of a NESCAC v. Holy Cross, Lafayette, Colgate choice.
Final point. Yup

Fair response Laxxal22. Another school that attracts kids with D1 talent that don't either want the commitment, the need to go really far, or the higher cost is CNU. Word is they are getting a couple of transfers from D1 schools. I think they could also challenge a few D1 schools.

[RE6ULATOR]

… CNU. Word is they are getting a couple of transfers from D1 schools. I think they could also challenge a few D1 schools.

Very talented squad AND great coach. But to be fair, shouldn’t a team full of DI players be able to “challenge a few DI teams” ?

[Laxattackjack]

… CNU. Word is they are getting a couple of transfers from D1 schools. I think they could also challenge a few D1 schools.

Very talented squad AND great coach. But to be fair, shouldn’t a team full of DI players be able to “challenge a few DI teams” ?

CNU is going 10-0 vs queens also.