American History

[cradleandshoot]

When there was first talk about colorizing WW II footage I was initially opposed to the idea. Didn't feel as if the footage should be altered in any way, it's reality needed to be exactly as recorded. Color was a long way from perfect, color tv was anything but natural looking and I sure didn't want the footage to look like that. Ultimately the color in the footage is dead nuts on the money and I don't know how it could be better. You can watch the war for pretty much as long as want on tv and I've watched quite a bit of it. The epitome of madness, man and his killing machines. Conditions survived, battles survived, what were the odds of those who returned home would? Adolf was an unbelievably dark and evil human being. The genes lined up a little out of whack when that one was put together. Geezuz H!!!

You are talking of all those " The Color of War " videos. Every war hawk should see them.

[Kismet]

VDH is no John Keegan - as both author and historian - Despite his recommendation.

Keegan admired Hanson's work & was a formative influence on VDH, writing forewords, favorable reviews &/or cover blurbs. They even co-authored a book. VDH credit's Keegan's encouragement for helping shape his career path. Keegan was not a history snob who allowed his political bias to tinge his appreciation of insightful history.

https://the-american-catholic.com/2012/ ... hn-keegan/

Like I said, as an author and historian VDH is no John Keegan.

[Typical Lax Dad]

When there was first talk about colorizing WW II footage I was initially opposed to the idea. Didn't feel as if the footage should be altered in any way, it's reality needed to be exactly as recorded. Color was a long way from perfect, color tv was anything but natural looking and I sure didn't want the footage to look like that. Ultimately the color in the footage is dead nuts on the money and I don't know how it could be better. You can watch the war for pretty much as long as want on tv and I've watched quite a bit of it. The epitome of madness, man and his killing machines. Conditions survived, battles survived, what were the odds of those who returned home would? Adolf was an unbelievably dark and evil human being. The genes lined up a little out of whack when that one was put together. Geezuz H!!!

Happened to see this today...speak of the devil.

[ardilla secreta]

Part of the uniqueness of this event was that it happened in such a beautiful city moments before the Giants and A’s were getting ready to start game 3 of the World Series.

IMG_0995.jpeg (105.87 KiB) Viewed 506 times

[Farfromgeneva]

Part of the uniqueness of this event was that it happened in such a beautiful city moments before the Giants and A’s were getting ready to start game 3 of the World Series.

IMG_0995.jpeg

I’m a lifelong As fan and ironically my sisters first friend after moving out in early 1990 to SF was a woman who’s car had been stolen a week before and was in fact the vehicle that was stuck in the crack of the bay bridge during the reporting of it. Some My Name is Earl level
karma.

That As team probably choked more than Lebrons stacked teams only getting 1 W/S no matter hope dope Orel Hershiser, Kirk Gibson, Jose Rijo and Eric Davis were….

[Typical Lax Dad]

Part of the uniqueness of this event was that it happened in such a beautiful city moments before the Giants and A’s were getting ready to start game 3 of the World Series.

IMG_0995.jpeg

I’m a lifelong As fan and ironically my sisters first friend after moving out in early 1990 to SF was a woman who’s car had been stolen a week before and was in fact the vehicle that was stuck in the crack of the bay bridge during the reporting of it. Some My Name is Earl level
karma.

That As team probably choked more than Lebrons stacked teams only getting 1 W/S no matter hope dope Orel Hershiser, Kirk Gibson, Jose Rijo and Eric Davis were….

Jose Rijo and Eric Davis were FANTASTIC

[Farfromgeneva]

Part of the uniqueness of this event was that it happened in such a beautiful city moments before the Giants and A’s were getting ready to start game 3 of the World Series.

IMG_0995.jpeg

I’m a lifelong As fan and ironically my sisters first friend after moving out in early 1990 to SF was a woman who’s car had been stolen a week before and was in fact the vehicle that was stuck in the crack of the bay bridge during the reporting of it. Some My Name is Earl level
karma.

That As team probably choked more than Lebrons stacked teams only getting 1 W/S no matter hope dope Orel Hershiser, Kirk Gibson, Jose Rijo and Eric Davis were….

Jose Rijo and Eric Davis were FANTASTIC

Indeed, I was more ok with losing to Cinci than the Dodgers in that stretch. Young Barry Larkin and Paul ONeill before Roberto Kelly trade too. Plus…Rob Dibble.

But still that As team had: Willie McGee, Harold Baines, Jose Canseco, Mark McGwire, Dave Henderson, Willie Randolph, Carney Lansford, Walt Weiss and Terry Steinbeck as catcher. Like 12 deep professional quality of better hitters. And a quality glove in MIke Gallego who didn’t kill you at the plate. That was the gaudy 27 win Bob Welch year and Dave Stewart won 20-21 games. Couple of other like 13-15 game winners and none had atrocious ERAs. Throw in the greatest reliever ever, Riviera is nice but he ain’t no Eck. Never should’ve lost that series….

[Brooklyn]

250th Anniversary of the Boston Tea Party


https://www.google.com/search?q=Boston+ ... e&ie=UTF-8


I am very puzzled as to why this was not celebrated more vociferously. Perhaps it's because people are more in tune with the Christmas season. But it sure is an occasion for patriotic celebration.

[youthathletics]

Would love to hear some feedback on this quick excerpt from Milton Friedman. https://www.instagram.com/p/C7k3NBANiif/

Afan - it seems counter to what your opinion is about always wanting to raise taxes to pay for more state and federal services. I suppose your argument may be that people can not get to this point without first the education of state funded programs?

[a fan]

Would love to hear some feedback on this quick excerpt from Milton Friedman. https://www.instagram.com/p/C7k3NBANiif/

Afan - it seems counter to what your opinion is about always wanting to raise taxes to pay for more state and federal services. I suppose your argument may be that people can not get to this point without first the education of state funded programs?

I really like Friedman, with two problems.

First, no one asks him good questions. No one, for example, asks him 'what are the consequences to the American labor market if we open up free trade among nations, and don't have unions". If someone did that, he'd come clean and say "wages for American workers will plummet, and reach toward the median global value for labor". So.. he skates.

Ask him: name a 1st world country that doesn't have a large, centralized government, with free education (different levels for each nation0 as a hallmark? He'd smile. And try and make up some pithy "1st world nations exist DESPITE big government" or some such thing.

And I'd ask him the same open question to the Forum I've asked for over a decade, and not one of you can answer it: take a kid in rural Colorado. You have to educate and get him a decent job without government intervention. How do you do that? (you can't). Even OS recognizes that without massive Federal intervention, farming in America doesn't work in 2024.

The other problem? When he cites Einstein, he does the same thing all Republicans do, and he does it on purpose----he lies his *ss off. He touts the free market giving us Einstein. He's flat out lying. Where did Einstein do his work in Europe, and later publish his, for example, theory of relativity. Take a wild guess.....were they public universities, where taxpayers financed Einsteins work and publications? And where did he famously work, YA?

Einsteins was LITERALLY the very bureaucrat that Friedman rails against in this clip...worked as a clerk in the Swiss .gov. Friedman is either a moron...or he's lying.

When he says to Donahue " you take a lot of things for granted"? I'd mop the floor with Friedman by pointing out all the above, and all that follows.

Then he mentions Ford. As we've discussed before, Friedman knows perfectly well that if the government didn't build roads...or even just invested equally in railroads, there's NO WAY Ford would have been anywhere near as successful at speed.


So yes, not only does Einstein not get where he gets without the .gov of several nations mucking in.....it's the government-private partnership that makes America work. How do you think we became a global power? Private industry all by itself? F no. It was the Federal Government funding private industry during and after WWII (Gi Bill, free ed at State Schools, etc) that made American boomers the richest generation in our nation's history.

You can't dispute this, YA. This is a fact, my man. Friedman wants to take the .gov help for granted, and pretend that either it didn't happen, or it was a footnote. How the F did we get to the moon, Milton?

My opinion in NOT to "always raise taxes". My opinion has ALWAYS been to pay for what we get. That's it. Want small government? Great. Pay for it. This will royally F the American working class, but whatever. Want big government? Great. Pay for it.

[a fan]

Would love to hear some feedback on this quick excerpt from Milton Friedman. https://www.instagram.com/p/C7k3NBANiif/

Afan - it seems counter to what your opinion is about always wanting to raise taxes to pay for more state and federal services. I suppose your argument may be that people can not get to this point without first the education of state funded programs?

I really like Friedman, with two problems.

First, no one asks him good questions. No one, for example, asks him 'what are the consequences to the American labor market if we open up free trade among nations, and don't have unions". If someone did that, he'd come clean and say "wages for American workers will plummet, and reach toward the median global value for labor". So.. he skates.

Ask him: name a 1st world country that doesn't have a large, centralized government, with free education (different levels for each nation0 as a hallmark? He'd smile. And try and make up some pithy "1st world nations exist DESPITE big government" or some such thing.

And I'd ask him the same open question to the Forum I've asked for over a decade, and not one of you can answer it: take a kid in rural Colorado. You have to educate and get him a decent job without government intervention. How do you do that? (you can't). Even OS recognizes that without massive Federal intervention, farming in America doesn't work in 2024.

The other problem? When he cites Einstein, he does the same thing all Republicans do, and he does it on purpose----he lies his *ss off. He touts the free market giving us Einstein. He's flat out lying. Where did Einstein do his work in Europe, and later publish his, for example, theory of relativity. Take a wild guess.....were they public universities, where taxpayers financed Einsteins work and publications? And where did he famously work, YA?

Einsteins was LITERALLY the very bureaucrat that Friedman rails against in this clip...worked as a clerk in the Swiss .gov. Friedman is either a moron...or he's lying.

When he says to Donahue " you take a lot of things for granted"? I'd mop the floor with Friedman by pointing out all the above, and all that follows.

Then he mentions Ford. As we've discussed before, Friedman knows perfectly well that if the government didn't build roads...or even just invested equally in railroads, there's NO WAY Ford would have been anywhere near as successful at speed.


So yes, not only does Einstein not get where he gets without the .gov of several nations mucking in.....it's the government-private partnership that makes America work. How do you think we became a global power? Private industry all by itself? F no. It was the Federal Government funding private industry during and after WWII (Gi Bill, free ed at State Schools, etc) that made American boomers the richest generation in our nation's history.

You can't dispute this, YA. This is a fact, my man. Friedman wants to take the .gov help for granted, and pretend that either it didn't happen, or it was a footnote. How the F did we get to the moon, Milton?

My opinion in NOT to "always raise taxes". My opinion has ALWAYS been to pay for what we get. That's it. Want small government? Great. Pay for it. This will royally F the American working class, but whatever. Want big government? Great. Pay for it.

....so this means the conversation is over?

[youthathletics]

Standby.....cutting down a 20" caliper Zelkova tree and have a contractor coming over to grind the stump out. I have this on my to do list, just dont want to drop in and out quickly.

[youthathletics]

Would love to hear some feedback on this quick excerpt from Milton Friedman. https://www.instagram.com/p/C7k3NBANiif/

Afan - it seems counter to what your opinion is about always wanting to raise taxes to pay for more state and federal services. I suppose your argument may be that people can not get to this point without first the education of state funded programs?

I really like Friedman, with two problems.

First, no one asks him good questions. No one, for example, asks him 'what are the consequences to the American labor market if we open up free trade among nations, and don't have unions". If someone did that, he'd come clean and say "wages for American workers will plummet, and reach toward the median global value for labor". So.. he skates.

Ask him: name a 1st world country that doesn't have a large, centralized government, with free education (different levels for each nation0 as a hallmark? He'd smile. And try and make up some pithy "1st world nations exist DESPITE big government" or some such thing.

And I'd ask him the same open question to the Forum I've asked for over a decade, and not one of you can answer it: take a kid in rural Colorado. You have to educate and get him a decent job without government intervention. How do you do that? (you can't). Even OS recognizes that without massive Federal intervention, farming in America doesn't work in 2024.

The other problem? When he cites Einstein, he does the same thing all Republicans do, and he does it on purpose----he lies his *ss off. He touts the free market giving us Einstein. He's flat out lying. Where did Einstein do his work in Europe, and later publish his, for example, theory of relativity. Take a wild guess.....were they public universities, where taxpayers financed Einsteins work and publications? And where did he famously work, YA?

Einsteins was LITERALLY the very bureaucrat that Friedman rails against in this clip...worked as a clerk in the Swiss .gov. Friedman is either a moron...or he's lying.

When he says to Donahue " you take a lot of things for granted"? I'd mop the floor with Friedman by pointing out all the above, and all that follows.

Then he mentions Ford. As we've discussed before, Friedman knows perfectly well that if the government didn't build roads...or even just invested equally in railroads, there's NO WAY Ford would have been anywhere near as successful at speed.


So yes, not only does Einstein not get where he gets without the .gov of several nations mucking in.....it's the government-private partnership that makes America work. How do you think we became a global power? Private industry all by itself? F no. It was the Federal Government funding private industry during and after WWII (Gi Bill, free ed at State Schools, etc) that made American boomers the richest generation in our nation's history.

You can't dispute this, YA. This is a fact, my man. Friedman wants to take the .gov help for granted, and pretend that either it didn't happen, or it was a footnote. How the F did we get to the moon, Milton?

My opinion in NOT to "always raise taxes". My opinion has ALWAYS been to pay for what we get. That's it. Want small government? Great. Pay for it. This will royally F the American working class, but whatever. Want big government? Great. Pay for it.

....so this means the conversation is over?

Regarding the Unions comment. That is a really big assumption on your part. Sure, unions set the prevailing wage in territories, but .gov also has OSHA, Rules and Regs, Davis-Bacon (prevailing wage on .gov/fed projects)....each of these among other added securities keep the wages inSynch. We could also argue, it would bring back the middle class.

I have answered your question Colorado question...you may not recall, or minimized and reduced all the way to some effort of .gov that paved a road. It's when we go that granular, the conversation can not go further....you win, but only because you reduced it so far that others made it possible. My POV on that is....duh, that is a given and everyone takes that is the ole saying "it takes a village", and .gov via taxes etc is part of that village. I believe Friedman is picking up at this point, as do most of us when discussing these topics, but you want to win, I get it.

Do you actually think Einstein was only smart b/c of some flavor .gov education?, I sure hope not! So es, I can dispute your argument.

I am not sure how you derived at your final comment, based on the comments of Freidman. Other than consistently seeking connection with success with .gov handouts....the ole BHO "You didn't build that" comment, seems to resonate.

[a fan]

I believe Friedman is picking up at this point, as do most of us when discussing these topics, but you want to win, I get it.

I'm trying to "win" in the sense that I want, just like Friedman, and just like you and anyone who's even a little interested in how country's work....to find the best economic system. It's what I was educated to do: find the best ideas and ways of living, and execute them... or vote for them.

Do you actually think Einstein was only smart b/c of some flavor .gov education?, I sure hope not! So es, I can dispute your argument.

No, but I'm most DEFINITELY think that his papers and discussions of said papers would not have happened if Europe didn't have a public institution of higher learning.

That said, this is an economic discussion that Friedman is having. Einstein put food on the table with a government job. Friedman wants to ignore this fact as irrelevant. I think you do, too.

To get you to understand why this is important, and why access to those Public Universities was EVERYTHING: what happens to Einstein if he's born in Africa? Got it now? This isn't some piece of pointless Einstein trivia. The fact that he ate because of the Government, had access to technical books because of the Governments of Germany and Switzerland was EVERYTHING.

Friedman want's to pretend that didn't happen, for obvious reasons. He doesn't want to admit that the private-government partnership is what gave us 1st world economies. His sales pitch is: capitalism, and get government out of the way.

Sorry mate, he's plainly and obviously wrong.

I am not sure how you derived at your final comment, based on the comments of Freidman. Other than consistently seeking connection with success with .gov handouts....the ole BHO "You didn't build that" comment, seems to resonate.

Again, you are confusing (OS and others do this, too) "handouts" with socialism and government-private partnerships. I'm not talking....at all...about handouts here. I'm telling you that you cannot have the economic success that Friedman champions without a strong central government. It simply doesn't work.

And Friedman is too blind to see it, because he takes all the things a strong centralized government does for granted, but not before he tells us that "it's in the way".

Remember, you're talking to one of the few entrepreneurs on the board. Wouldn't you think I'd be on here telling you that capitalism is King, and that the .gov is only in the way? Don't you find it at least interesting that I think that you can't have a first world nation without a Big Government?


It's simple, and I asked this before: if small government coupled with capitalism leads to the best economic outcome? Why haven't we had one single country on Earth in the post industrial era that has a first world economy, yet also has minimal....or anywhere close to minimal, government?

[Kismet]

I think the world is so much better off because of Einstein and Milton Friedman is totally irrelevant in comparison. John Maynard Keynes forgot more about economics than Friedman ever knew.

Friedman is the VDH of his time.

[youthathletics]

EDIT: My reply on Sunday did not have you tagged correctly.

I believe Friedman is picking up at this point, as do most of us when discussing these topics, but you want to win, I get it.

I'm trying to "win" in the sense that I want, just like Friedman, and just like you and anyone who's even a little interested in how country's work....to find the best economic system. It's what I was educated to do: find the best ideas and ways of living, and execute them... or vote for them.

We agree.

Do you actually think Einstein was only smart b/c of some flavor .gov education?, I sure hope not! So yes, I can dispute your argument.

No, but I'm most DEFINITELY think that his papers and discussions of said papers would not have happened if Europe didn't have a public institution of higher learning.

That said, this is an economic discussion that Friedman is having. Einstein put food on the table with a government job. Friedman wants to ignore this fact as irrelevant. I think you do, too.

To get you to understand why this is important, and why access to those Public Universities was EVERYTHING: what happens to Einstein if he's born in Africa? Got it now? This isn't some piece of pointless Einstein trivia. The fact that he ate because of the Government, had access to technical books because of the Governments of Germany and Switzerland was EVERYTHING.

Friedman want's to pretend that didn't happen, for obvious reasons. He doesn't want to admit that the private-government partnership is what gave us 1st world economies. His sales pitch is: capitalism, and get government out of the way.

Sorry mate, he's plainly and obviously wrong.

I view it differently, and maybe that is impossible TODAY as compared to yesteryear, that IT IS b/c of the private sector that we have had so much advancement and progress. I think of it like this.....and we can stay on Einstein. He was brilliant long before any .gov was involved, self educated around 10, then published papers that essentially took the science world by storm....THEN was offered all the bells and whistles that comes from .gov. Meaning, as Friedman is arguing, "the world wins, by individual's pursuing their special interests". I suppose we are splitting hairs and arguing Chicken/Egg.[/quote]

I am not sure how you derived at your final comment, based on the comments of Freidman. Other than consistently seeking connection with success with .gov handouts....the ole BHO "You didn't build that" comment, seems to resonate.

Again, you are confusing (OS and others do this, too) "handouts" with socialism and government-private partnerships. I'm not talking....at all...about handouts here. I'm telling you that you cannot have the economic success that Friedman champions without a strong central government. It simply doesn't work.

And Friedman is too blind to see it, because he takes all the things a strong centralized government does for granted, but not before he tells us that "it's in the way".

Remember, you're talking to one of the few entrepreneurs on the board. Wouldn't you think I'd be on here telling you that capitalism is King, and that the .gov is only in the way? Don't you find it at least interesting that I think that you can't have a first world nation without a Big Government?


It's simple, and I asked this before: if small government coupled with capitalism leads to the best economic outcome? Why haven't we had one single country on Earth in the post industrial era that has a first world economy, yet also has minimal....or anywhere close to minimal, government?

We have been down this road before, you and I. I completely understand handouts and socialism, error on my part when I said handouts. I also believe, and speculate that you'd agree, that you would be far more successful WITHOUT .gov in your way; Friedmans points, no?

[Seacoaster(1)]

Eighty years ago:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ar-memory/

"Mel Jenner had one of those World War II jobs that no one really tries out for. Waist gunner in a B-17 bomber was what you’d get if you didn’t draw the straw to be pilot or navigator. You had to man a machine gun in front of an open window space at an altitude of four to five miles, the swirling frigid air tough to bear even in a sheepskin jacket and other cold-weather gear. Handling that 50-caliber machine gun took strength and agility, and following an attacking enemy fighter with it, leading them just enough to account for the movement of both airplanes, was a very particular talent.

Mel, who is traveling to Normandy for the 80th anniversary of D-Day this week on an American Airlines charter with the nonprofit Old Glory Honor Flight, stood beside me in his living room this spring, still nearly military in his bearing at 102. He showed me a picture of himself as a young man in his Army Air Corps uniform. Then he told me about his best friend, Oscar McClure.

Oscar was a belly turret gunner in Mel’s squadron of the 8th Air Force. That put him in a hemisphere of plexiglass slung beneath the fuselage of a B-17, an even more demanding spot than waist gunner. Once closed in there, you were cooped up awkwardly with your knees around your ears for hours. But it had to be crewed. The belly turret gunner helped protect the big plane from attacks from below.

On a mission over Châteaudun in German-occupied France in the run-up to D-Day, spring of 1944, the squadron ran into heavy flak and enemy fighters. Dozens of B-17s flew close together, since Air Corps doctrine taught that the tighter the formation, the stronger the defense. Mel could see his friend Oscar tucked inside his belly turret in the next plane over, just yards away.

Then the flak started, puffs of dark smoke exploding around the planes. And in one terrible moment, a burst hit Oscar’s plane, blowing off the whole right wing. For an instant, the detached wing hung grotesquely over the torn fuselage, propellers still turning in space.

Mel described looking over at Oscar, who had to know that his life was about to end. Then he watched as his friend took his pair of 50-caliber machine guns and moved them up and down, side to side.

As Mel told me this story, he put both arms out in front of him, as if they were his friend’s gun barrels. He gently moved them in a slow pattern, up and down, side to side, ever so slightly. His voice broke as said, “And he just waved goodbye to me.”

For 80 years, Mel Jenner has relived that moment, and still it stops him short, this memory of witnessing his friend’s death in wartime. Some things in life can just never become ordinary."

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Wasn't sure where to put this. Scrolling down I thought, "This is certainly part of American history." Specifically, US college students protesting wars. What stood out to me in this account I just happened to stumble upon from Tom Wolfe's The Electric Koolaid Acid Test of an anti-Vietnam war rally which took place at Berkeley in the fall of 1965 was the language used...genocidal...to describe an aspect of the war. It gave me pause...so, college students haven't only charged the Israeli's of genocide, but they've charged the United States with it too.

From the chapter entitled The Frozen Jug Band:

All the shock workers of the tongue were there, speakers like Paul Jacobs, and M. S. Arnoni, who wore a prison uniform to the podium because his family had been wiped out in a German concentration camp during World War II—and out before them was a great sea of students and other Youth, the toggle-coat bohemians— toggle coats, Desert Boots, civil rights, down with the war in Vietnam—"... could call out to you from their graves or from the fields and rivers upon which their ashes were thrown, they would implore this generation of Americans not to be silent in the face of the genocidal atrocities committed on the people of Vietnam ..." and the words rolled in full forensic boom over the PA. systems.

So, in a sense--college students, and others, have actually cheapened the word, because perhaps they use it when it's expedient to do so--whether the word is applicable or not. It certainly was for the Holocaust.

[OuttaNowhereWregget]

Wasn't sure where to put this. Scrolling down I thought, "This is certainly part of American history." Specifically, US college students protesting wars. What stood out to me in this account I just happened to stumble on from Tom Wolfe's The Electric Koolaid Acid Test # of an anti-Vietnam war rally which took place at Berkeley in October of 1965* was the language used...genocidal...to describe an aspect of the war. It gave me pause...so, college students haven't only charged the Israelis of genocide, but they've charged the United States with it too....60 years ago. In other words, As much as things change, they stay the same. And another--There's nothing new under the sun.

From the chapter entitled The Frozen Jug Band:

All the shock workers of the tongue were there, speakers like Paul Jacobs, and M. S. Arnoni, who wore a prison uniform to the podium because his family had been wiped out in a German concentration camp during World War II—and out before them was a great sea of students and other Youth, the toggle-coat bohemians— toggle coats, Desert Boots, civil rights, down with the war in Vietnam—"... could call out to you from their graves or from the fields and rivers upon which their ashes were thrown, they would implore this generation of Americans not to be silent in the face of the genocidal atrocities committed on the people of Vietnam ..." and the words rolled in full forensic boom over the PA. systems.

So, in a sense--college students, and others, have actually cheapened the word, because perhaps they use it when it's expedient to do so--whether the word is applicable or not. It certainly was for the Holocaust. Other instances? A reach. Perhaps hoping for the shock value of the word. Wouldn't put it past them.

* October 15, 1965: Anti-Vietnam war rallies are held in four U.S. cities, the largest in New York and Berkeley. In New York, police make the 1st arrest under a new Federal draft card-burning law. [NYT, 10/16/65]

At UC Berkeley, a Teach-In on campus is followed by a march on the Oakland Army induction center. "That evening, some 15,000 demonstrators left the campus marching toward Oakland. Marchers include children, grandmothers, and a busload of Ken Kesey's Merry Pranksters along with college and high school students. The Oakland and Berkeley authorities had refused a parade permit. As the marchers approached the Oakland city limit they could see about 400 Oakland police wearing riot helmets, brandishing special riot weapons, blocking the way. The march stopped less than a hundred yards from the police line. As spectators and a group of about 100 right-wing counterdemonstrators filled the gap between the march and the police, a previously agreed-to subcommittee held a swirling, confused discussion on what to do. ... [After negotiation, the march proceeded to Oakland Civic Center Park , where the teach-in was continued and another march called for the next day." [Halstead, p. 87; Rorabaugh, pp. 96-97]

The following day (October 16), the marchers return. (About 100 had remained in the park overnight). When the two to five thousand protesters reach the Oakland City line, they are stopped by police. The police ask the protestors to sit down in the street to avoid violent confrontations. Poet Allen Ginsberg chants "Hare Krishna" at the front of the march. The Hell's Angels motorcycle gang appears, rips down banners, and attacks protestors, yelling, "Go back to Russia you f***ing communists!" The police attack the Angels. When the Angels threaten to attack the next peace march, Ginsberg, Kesey, and Pranksters subsequently visit the home of Angels president Sonny Barger to discuss the situation and share some LSD with Barger and his friends. By dawn the two groups had chanted together. [Barlow. Intrepid Trips: "Allen"; LAT, 10/17/65]



# And a nice clean free online pdf copy of the book in case anyone is interested: https://voidnetwork.gr/wp-content/uploa ... -Wolfe.pdf

[runrussellrun]

250th Anniversary of the Boston Tea Party


https://www.google.com/search?q=Boston+ ... e&ie=UTF-8


I am very puzzled as to why this was not celebrated more vociferously. Perhaps it's because people are more in tune with the Christmas season. But it sure is an occasion for patriotic celebration.

because, team tinfoil hat knows what this event was ReALLY about.

John Hancock had to pay tons of money to the East India company for HIS ordering of the destruction of the tea.

the tea TAX was repealed......meaning the tea on the Beaver, etc. was going to be cheaper than the tea Hancock was "smuggling" and selling illegally.

fact.
Yeah....celebrate the rich getting richer.