Stop playing tournament games in football stadiums

[Stiffler]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, so forgive me if it has. I like the idea of a permanent home for the Final Four, a la college baseball and Omaha. Make it a destination that every team/kid strives to get to. Mid-market in a heavy youth lacrosse area that will invest in making the Final Four a big deal for that community. Also need a 25k-ish stadium. If you can't find a mid-market, then just put it in a market where it's a big deal, not just another event where it gets lost within the community. Moving the Final Four (or the regionals, for that matter) has proven not to "grow the game", as has been discussed.

Annapolis, MD would be perfect, but I get the USNA graduation..of course if they pushed the season back a week and made teams play at least 14 games...

[Gobigred]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, so forgive me if it has. I like the idea of a permanent home for the Final Four, a la college baseball and Omaha. Make it a destination that every team/kid strives to get to. Mid-market in a heavy youth lacrosse area that will invest in making the Final Four a big deal for that community. Also need a 25k-ish stadium. If you can't find a mid-market, then just put it in a market where it's a big deal, not just another event where it gets lost within the community. Moving the Final Four (or the regionals, for that matter) has proven not to "grow the game", as has been discussed.

Annapolis, MD would be perfect, but I get the USNA graduation..of course if they pushed the season back a week and made teams play at least 14 games...

I really wish people would stop with putting the tournament in one place...and then suggesting somewhere in Maryland. How selfish! Lacrosse is no longer a Maryland/Virginia-centric sport. Hasn't been for more than 50 years. Time to face the reality that lacrosse is now popular in schools in Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York (Long Island, Westchester and upstate central) and New Jersey.

[hmmm]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, so forgive me if it has. I like the idea of a permanent home for the Final Four, a la college baseball and Omaha. Make it a destination that every team/kid strives to get to. Mid-market in a heavy youth lacrosse area that will invest in making the Final Four a big deal for that community. Also need a 25k-ish stadium. If you can't find a mid-market, then just put it in a market where it's a big deal, not just another event where it gets lost within the community. Moving the Final Four (or the regionals, for that matter) has proven not to "grow the game", as has been discussed.

Annapolis, MD would be perfect, but I get the USNA graduation..of course if they pushed the season back a week and made teams play at least 14 games...

The NCAA actually approached Baltimore about making M&T Bank Stadium the permanent home of Championship Weekend and the city/Ravens said no. I don't recall what the reason was for declining.

[Farfromgeneva]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, so forgive me if it has. I like the idea of a permanent home for the Final Four, a la college baseball and Omaha. Make it a destination that every team/kid strives to get to. Mid-market in a heavy youth lacrosse area that will invest in making the Final Four a big deal for that community. Also need a 25k-ish stadium. If you can't find a mid-market, then just put it in a market where it's a big deal, not just another event where it gets lost within the community. Moving the Final Four (or the regionals, for that matter) has proven not to "grow the game", as has been discussed.

Annapolis, MD would be perfect, but I get the USNA graduation..of course if they pushed the season back a week and made teams play at least 14 games...

I really wish people would stop with putting the tournament in one place...and then suggesting somewhere in Maryland. How selfish! Lacrosse is no longer a Maryland/Virginia-centric sport. Hasn't been for more than 50 years. Time to face the reality that lacrosse is now popular in schools in Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York (Long Island, Westchester and upstate central) and New Jersey.

Yeah it’s not like there isn’t a nexus of tribes in CNY where the sport originated or schools that have been playing 100+ years…

[Matnum PI]

I think my info is correct but who knows?... Focusing on the (D1 Men's) Finals, attendance numbers seem to hover between 20-35K and has been as high as 48K. (http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_lacross ... Attend.pdf) With this in mind, Hofstra and similar venues are not big enough. Seems like the issue is that we're too big for this but too small for that.

[Stiffler]

Don't know if this has been mentioned before, so forgive me if it has. I like the idea of a permanent home for the Final Four, a la college baseball and Omaha. Make it a destination that every team/kid strives to get to. Mid-market in a heavy youth lacrosse area that will invest in making the Final Four a big deal for that community. Also need a 25k-ish stadium. If you can't find a mid-market, then just put it in a market where it's a big deal, not just another event where it gets lost within the community. Moving the Final Four (or the regionals, for that matter) has proven not to "grow the game", as has been discussed.

Annapolis, MD would be perfect, but I get the USNA graduation..of course if they pushed the season back a week and made teams play at least 14 games...

I really wish people would stop with putting the tournament in one place...and then suggesting somewhere in Maryland. How selfish! Lacrosse is no longer a Maryland/Virginia-centric sport. Hasn't been for more than 50 years. Time to face the reality that lacrosse is now popular in schools in Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York (Long Island, Westchester and upstate central) and New Jersey.

I live in Philly. Annapolis, to me, is the ideal type of market. Heavy lacrosse interest. Stadium. Lots to do and it would be a big deal to the community to have it (I'm guessing). But none the less, I would take any city that is a mid-market that would invest and make it an important time of year to the community. Put it in Westchester, LI, Mass, Wilimington...whatever.

[fatherof2]

since there is at least one team from NY still standing in each of the I, II, & III brackets, it only makes sense for it to be somewhere in upstate NY.
If it wasn't Mercy, it would have been LeMoyne.
just sayin : )

[OCanada]

The difficulty w Annapolis is the conflict with USNA graduation

[Matnum PI]

What am I missing? USNA has a capacity of 34K. The finals have had 10K more than this. So how is this a good fit?

[jrn19]

The finals have HAD 10k more than 34k. However they haven’t hit even 34k for the championship in over a decade. NMCMS is the perfect venue size wise for the F4 if they’re ever willing to move the championship back

[wrhuradio]

I'm biased of course but I think Hofstra's Shuart Stadium with 13K capacity is ideal quarterfinal setting since even when you get disappointing crowd like Saturday at 5,800 it still is a great atmosphere and doesn't look empty. In years where you get the right mix of teams like Maryland, Cuse or 2014 Albany with Thomson twins Hofstra will draw more than 10K.

5800 at Hofstra is a real disappointment. Hofstra is supposed to be above being team-reliant for attendance, and I think in the past it was. Based on this number, I'd estimate that they only sold 1000 advance tickets beforehand, with each of the 4 teams-Rutgers/Penn/Princeton/ bringing say 1000 each. In order for them (and any of the QF) to get legit QF attendance, they've GOT to sell much more advance tickets,...people that don't necessarily care about who the teams are going to be, that are just going because it's going to be good high-level lacrosse either way.
You'd think Long Island would have a larger base of people that go to the QF and are not waiting to see who's playing, but they have shown they are. That's not exactly a mecca for lacrosse.

In Omaha/CWS a big reason why they are there annually is because they have a steady advance ticket sales base.
I bet you that if the 8 teams that reach the CWS were from the America East, NEC and other smaller conferences, they'd still come within 75% of their usual attendance figures simply because they have so many people that are going to the event regardless of the teams. Does lacrosse anywhere like besides (a dwindling) Final 4?

Long Island is a very baffling sports area. Besides Mets/Yankees/NFL the typical sports fan is not into minor league sports unfortunately. There's just too much to do or events themselves dont have an identity of "Big Long Island event, let's go" the way the CWS for Omaha is or NCAA Softball in Oklahoma. Same for NYC, it doesnt support college basketball well. They'd rather stay home and watch TV or sports. Even the NY Islanders left to Brooklyn, and then had to come back to what's now a new arena. It remains to be seen if the Islanders draw an average of 15k once the novelty of the new arena wears off going into year 2.

I'd suggest a Syracuse area like even Cortland for North QF because at the very least, the Syracuse lacrosse fans will buy 2000 advance tickets even if the Orange may not be there, because they go to watch games.

Another factor that I've heard mentioned for it's decline; it's simply a real hassle to get to Hofstra if you're already not on LI, so if you're coming from anywhere west or south where you've got to use Belt Parkway, GWB, Lincoln Tunnel, you're going to have second thoughts on making the trip unless you're really connected to the team/know a player. The final 30 miles can take 2 hrs and vice versa leaving.

I think because of the low QF attendance numbers, the schools that have considered hosting have been hesitant or backed off because of the financial risk and low margins it could turn into, and that will continue, so Hofstra by default will be hosting every other year, and it should be alarming that the NCAA doesnt see anywhere else to go that could break 5K.

PS I see a vast difference between Men's College Soccer and Men's College lacrosse so it's not comparing apples to apples. No. 1 College Lacrosse is either the 2nd or 1st Tier of the sport (certainly 1st in most popular), depending on how you view PLL. NCAA Men's Soccer is like 5th on the totem pole of Soccer.
No. 2 Men's College Soccer's final 4 teams are typically loaded with foreign players, like 50% of the total rosters, so that's way less domestic friends/family that are invested and ticket buyers.

[hofstrapride1]

I'm biased of course but I think Hofstra's Shuart Stadium with 13K capacity is ideal quarterfinal setting since even when you get disappointing crowd like Saturday at 5,800 it still is a great atmosphere and doesn't look empty. In years where you get the right mix of teams like Maryland, Cuse or 2014 Albany with Thomson twins Hofstra will draw more than 10K.

5800 at Hofstra is a real disappointment. Hofstra is supposed to be above being team-reliant for attendance, and I think in the past it was. Based on this number, I'd estimate that they only sold 1000 advance tickets beforehand, with each of the 4 teams-Rutgers/Penn/Princeton/ bringing say 1000 each. In order for them (and any of the QF) to get legit QF attendance, they've GOT to sell much more advance tickets,...people that don't necessarily care about who the teams are going to be, that are just going because it's going to be good high-level lacrosse either way.
You'd think Long Island would have a larger base of people that go to the QF and are not waiting to see who's playing, but they have shown they are. That's not exactly a mecca for lacrosse.

In Omaha/CWS a big reason why they are there annually is because they have a steady advance ticket sales base.
I bet you that if the 8 teams that reach the CWS were from the America East, NEC and other smaller conferences, they'd still come within 75% of their usual attendance figures simply because they have so many people that are going to the event regardless of the teams. Does lacrosse anywhere like besides (a dwindling) Final 4?

Long Island is a very baffling sports area. Besides Mets/Yankees/NFL the typical sports fan is not into minor league sports unfortunately. There's just too much to do or events themselves dont have an identity of "Big Long Island event, let's go" the way the CWS for Omaha is or NCAA Softball in Oklahoma. Same for NYC, it doesnt support college basketball well. They'd rather stay home and watch TV or sports. Even the NY Islanders left to Brooklyn, and then had to come back to what's now a new arena. It remains to be seen if the Islanders draw an average of 15k once the novelty of the new arena wears off going into year 2.

I'd suggest a Syracuse area like even Cortland for North QF because at the very least, the Syracuse lacrosse fans will buy 2000 advance tickets even if the Orange may not be there, because they go to watch games.

Another factor that I've heard mentioned for it's decline; it's simply a real hassle to get to Hofstra if you're already not on LI, so if you're coming from anywhere west or south where you've got to use Belt Parkway, GWB, Lincoln Tunnel, you're going to have second thoughts on making the trip unless you're really connected to the team/know a player. The final 30 miles can take 2 hrs and vice versa leaving.

I think because of the low QF attendance numbers, the schools that have considered hosting have been hesitant or backed off because of the financial risk and low margins it could turn into, and that will continue, so Hofstra by default will be hosting every other year, and it should be alarming that the NCAA doesnt see anywhere else to go that could break 5K.

PS I see a vast difference between Men's College Soccer and Men's College lacrosse so it's not comparing apples to apples. No. 1 College Lacrosse is either the 2nd or 1st Tier of the sport (certainly 1st in most popular), depending on how you view PLL. NCAA Men's Soccer is like 5th on the totem pole of Soccer.
No. 2 Men's College Soccer's final 4 teams are typically loaded with foreign players, like 50% of the total rosters, so that's way less domestic friends/family that are invested and ticket buyers.

Lots to unpack here and while I definitely agree there should be more local tickets sold to Long Island lacrosse fans regardless of teams playing, there are also many youth, high school lacrosse commitments that Saturday which may limit that amount of fans who can attend. I disagree on Hofstra being difficult to get to as is only 15 miles from the Throgs Neck Bridge . Yes it can be a pain for people in Jersey getting there, but certainly far better than driving up to Central New York or to Albany, which will host next year. Bottom line is Hofstra is ideal venue for a lot of reasons and even when just under 6K there the atmosphere in a 13K venue is still solid. I look forward to hosting again in 2024 and 2026 and hopefully many other times beyond that.

[Farfromgeneva]

since there is at least one team from NY still standing in each of the I, II, & III brackets, it only makes sense for it to be somewhere in upstate NY.
If it wasn't Mercy, it would have been LeMoyne.
just sayin : )

So they have open space around Turning Stone?

[MoralTerpitude]

PS I see a vast difference between Men's College Soccer and Men's College lacrosse so it's not comparing apples to apples. No. 1 College Lacrosse is either the 2nd or 1st Tier of the sport (certainly 1st in most popular), depending on how you view PLL. NCAA Men's Soccer is like 5th on the totem pole of Soccer.
No. 2 Men's College Soccer's final 4 teams are typically loaded with foreign players, like 50% of the total rosters, so that's way less domestic friends/family that are invested and ticket buyers.

This is a key point. Reading the references to the College Cup, and being a soccer fan… NCAA soccer is not even on the radar of most soccer fans. Even less so after MLS teams brought back their development academies. The rules for NCAA soccer are even different from professional soccer (you can substitute out and back in, there are timeouts, the clock counts down instead of up). And these days very few college players end up being competitive to play on the national team, or move on to careers in Europe’s top leagues - they are well behind their academy peers in terms of development.

Lacrosse being one of the very few NCAA sports where the college game is the most popular tier of the sport, it’s really hard to compare to others from an attendance standpoint.

[NElaxtalent]

Word.

I haven't seen such a sparse crowd in such a huge space since Trump's inauguration. Though I hear Fox News is reporting the UVA/MD game was a sellout...

Many people believe it was the largest crowd in history. Nobody else could have done it, that I can tell you.

[MDralphie]

Hofstra attendance was terrible for QF especially considering the teams playing. Really sad. I’m heading to Hartford Friday morning and have been to every final since 2011 except 2017 when my Terps won…figures! As the game is spreading I think you need a a area many can reach without the lousy LI traffic. Major airports, hotels need to be close. I cannot remember for sure but I thought there was a huge crowd 2016 in Philly. Thought 2011 was similar Baltimore. Audi field in DC was a great venue for the game but the parking….

[hofstrapride1]

Hofstra attendance was terrible for QF especially considering the teams playing. Really sad. I’m heading to Hartford Friday morning and have been to every final since 2011 except 2017 when my Terps won…figures! As the game is spreading I think you need a a area many can reach without the lousy LI traffic. Major airports, hotels need to be close. I cannot remember for sure but I thought there was a huge crowd 2016 in Philly. Thought 2011 was similar Baltimore. Audi field in DC was a great venue for the game but the parking….

How do you consider Yale, Princeton, Penn and Penn ideal teams attendance wise? Yes they are all geographically close to Long Island but it isn't exactly Maryland, Cuse or Hopkins in terms of major fanbases.

[hofstrapride1]

Hofstra attendance was terrible for QF especially considering the teams playing. Really sad. I’m heading to Hartford Friday morning and have been to every final since 2011 except 2017 when my Terps won…figures! As the game is spreading I think you need a a area many can reach without the lousy LI traffic. Major airports, hotels need to be close. I cannot remember for sure but I thought there was a huge crowd 2016 in Philly. Thought 2011 was similar Baltimore. Audi field in DC was a great venue for the game but the parking….

How do you consider Yale, Princeton, Penn and Penn ideal teams attendance wise? Yes they are all geographically close to Long Island but it isn't exactly Maryland, Cuse or Hopkins in terms of major fanbases.

[Puck Swami]

It’s fine to play regular season games in non-traditional locations so fans in the Midwest and West can see live lax, but playing the quarterfinals of the season’s showcase event - the tournament- makes no sense on so many levels. It adds needless travel time and expenses for the teams - often during finals. It is unfair for the families of the players. And it stinks for the true lax fans , the overwhelming majority of whom who still live in the I 95 corridor. Play a showcase in Ohio or California or wherever, but the quarterfinals should be in two locations between New England and North Carolina every season.

So only East Coast fans are the "true" lacrosse fans? I get that the majority of fans are in the I-95 corridor. But there are a growing number of strong lax programs not on the East Coast and someday, there will be even more of them. Must they and their fans always be eternally penalized to always have to fly east for the QFs and Finals due to traditional hotbed fan base convenience? Many of these non-I-95 team teams already have to bear huge costs just to play in D-I regular seasons. Denver, for example, already has to fly east 8-10 times a year just to play its regular season games. Lacrosse is slowly becoming a national sport, with good players from all over being recruited and the rosters of all contending teams now reflect more and more player origins from beyond the I-95 corridor. Fan culture beyond I-95 is growing too. If a QF in Denver can draw 13k (as it did in 2015), just like Hofstra that year, why should't more QFs be played there? And if the day comes when Denver, or Chicago, or Milwaukee or Salt Lake or even LA decides to put in a strong bid to host the NCAA finals, I hope they get their shot. This game deserves to grow, and getting on an airplane to watch it every now and again might just add to the experience...You can still play 75% of the playoffs on the I-95, but spreading the best of the game around will pay off over time.

For example, College Hockey has its tradiotnal hotbeds in the Northeast and Midwest and holds plenty of Frozen Fours in St.Paul, Boston and Detroit where the traditional fans are, but no one bats an eye when the annual NCAA Frozen Four is held in NHL Arenas around the country, not just in the traditional college hockey hotbeds. In the last 25 years, The Frozen Four has drawn solidly 15,000+ in places like LA, Tampa, Denver, Chicago, Washington, St. Louis and it will soon come to Las Vegas. College Hockey now has a core group of about 8,000-10,000 fans who travel to the Frozen Four every year, wherever it is and whomever is playing in it. They plan their yearly vacations around it and see new areas of the country. NCAA Lax should be on a similar trajectory...

[LeeRoggy]

It’s fine to play regular season games in non-traditional locations so fans in the Midwest and West can see live lax, but playing the quarterfinals of the season’s showcase event - the tournament- makes no sense on so many levels. It adds needless travel time and expenses for the teams - often during finals. It is unfair for the families of the players. And it stinks for the true lax fans , the overwhelming majority of whom who still live in the I 95 corridor. Play a showcase in Ohio or California or wherever, but the quarterfinals should be in two locations between New England and North Carolina every season.

So only East Coast fans are the "true" lacrosse fans? I get that the majority of fans are in the I-95 corridor. But there are a growing number of strong lax programs not on the East Coast and someday, there will be even more of them. Must they and their fans always be eternally penalized to always have to fly east for the QFs and Finals due to traditional hotbed fan base convenience? Many of these non-I-95 team teams already have to bear huge costs just to play in D-I regular seasons. Denver, for example, already has to fly east 8-10 times a year just to play its regular season games. Lacrosse is slowly becoming a national sport, with good players from all over being recruited and the rosters of all contending teams now reflect more and more player origins from beyond the I-95 corridor. Fan culture beyond I-95 is growing too. If a QF in Denver can draw 13k (as it did in 2015), just like Hofstra that year, why should't more QFs be played there? And if the day comes when Denver, or Chicago, or Milwaukee or Salt Lake or even LA decides to put in a strong bid to host the NCAA finals, I hope they get their shot. This game deserves to grow, and getting on an airplane to watch it every now and again might just add to the experience...You can still play 75% of the playoffs on the I-95, but spreading the best of the game around will pay off over time.

For example, College Hockey has its tradiotnal hotbeds in the Northeast and Midwest and holds plenty of Frozen Fours in St.Paul, Boston and Detroit where the traditional fans are, but no one bats an eye when the annual NCAA Frozen Four is held in NHL Arenas around the country, not just in the traditional college hockey hotbeds. In the last 25 years, The Frozen Four has drawn solidly 15,000+ in places like LA, Tampa, Denver, Chicago, Washington, St. Louis and it will soon come to Las Vegas. College Hockey now has a core group of about 8,000-10,000 fans who travel to the Frozen Four every year, wherever it is and whomever is playing in it. They plan their yearly vacations around it and see new areas of the country. NCAA Lax should be on a similar trajectory...

Thank you!

Pathetic how you can't move it outside of the Northeast, but 'heat' is why 5,800 showed in Hofstra. Or that FOUR IVY schools can't draw from their HUGE Alumni bases in the area?

In Orlando last year we drew 4,400 for the HIGH SCHOOL Final Four event.

There are 500 school teams in Florida now, including about 50 Club level that don't play FHSAA. There are HUGE alumni bases in this state of 22 million+ people, many of which would flock to a Final Four in something like FAU. Unlike those up north, we know how to attend a hot weather event and don't get dissuaded from doing so. This whining about cost for the attendees outside the Northeast is what we face EVERY YEAR someone from our area wants to attend a Final Four.

BTW, anyone have the ticket sales so far for UConn this year? It had BETTER be more than last year or I don't want to hear ANY excuses from the selfish hotbed crowd.