D1 vs D3. What’s the difference

[LI_Lax14]

The thing many people seem to be forgetting is over the last 10 years or so, several D2 powers have either transitioned to D1 or the program dissolved. The best examples of this are LIU/CW Post, Merrimack, NYIT, and Dowling. This dealt a major blow to D2 as will Lindenwood moving up. It is great to see some of the Southern D2 schools provide more exposure to the sport in their respective states. I.E Tampa

[palaxoff]

Ok. Your last comment tells me enough about your college lacrosse knowledge. No teams carry 75 kids. 3rd line middies at Salisbury and Tufts are elite

Sorry just feel like throwing some gas of this exciting thread.

Team don't carry 75 (Most D 1 schools have close to 50) but a lot of D3 teams carry over 60 ever see the Buses from Salisbury and Stevenson. This may be the biggest difference between D1and D3. A lot of D3 schools have teams to attract students to their school in all sports. It is a very competitive and shrinking market for college students. I have heard several stories where coaches get bonuses or larger budgets for carrying larger teams. I don't believe that is as true at D 1 schools. On a side note you can only dress 32 for NCAA tournament which I'm sure is a headache for coaches.

As for "elite" 3rd midfield lines. Do they really exist with LSM, SSM, FOGOs and Offensive specialist. In most competitive games there are about 20-22 players who get PT. The likely hood of PT for 3rd midfield is slim. They maybe good players but if they can't crack the top 2 midfields then there not elite. They may be first or second at another school but if the team isn't a TO 10 program kind of reduce the status from elite.

[RedFromMI]

The thing many people seem to be forgetting is over the last 10 years or so, several D2 powers have either transitioned to D1 or the program dissolved. The best examples of this are LIU/CW Post, Merrimack, NYIT, and Dowling. This dealt a major blow to D2 as will Lindenwood moving up. It is great to see some of the Southern D2 schools provide more exposure to the sport in their respective states. I.E Tampa

Queens is also rumored to be going up to D1 as well.

[Jumbo]

Ok. Your last comment tells me enough about your college lacrosse knowledge. No teams carry 75 kids. 3rd line middies at Salisbury and Tufts are elite

Sorry just feel like throwing some gas of this exciting thread.

Team don't carry 75 (Most D 1 schools have close to 50) but a lot of D3 teams carry over 60 ever see the Buses from Salisbury and Stevenson. This may be the biggest difference between D1and D3. A lot of D3 schools have teams to attract students to their school in all sports. It is a very competitive and shrinking market for college students. I have heard several stories where coaches get bonuses or larger budgets for carrying larger teams. I don't believe that is as true at D 1 schools. On a side note you can only dress 32 for NCAA tournament which I'm sure is a headache for coaches.

As for "elite" 3rd midfield lines. Do they really exist with LSM, SSM, FOGOs and Offensive specialist. In most competitive games there are about 20-22 players who get PT. The likely hood of PT for 3rd midfield is slim. They maybe good players but if they can't crack the top 2 midfields then there not elite. They may be first or second at another school but if the team isn't a TO 10 program kind of reduce the status from elite.

I checked yesterday. Salisbury has 51. D1 programs range as low as high 40’s to over 60 (Navy). As you go down the ranks in D3, the rosters get smaller.

[lax1983]

I was being facetious about that number, although I do believe Tampa may have 75 guys since they have a JV team.

Also, a valid point above ^ when I was a senior in college Dowling, LIU Post, and NYIT were all in the mix. None of them in d2 now.

[LI_Lax14]

Bryant is another one that was a D2 power and shifted to D1

[RedFromMI]

Bryant is another one that was a D2 power and shifted to D1

The upward motion of schools to D1 ebbs and flows - some time ago (like the Bryant switch ) there were so many schools moving up that D1 made the process longer to discourage it. Much of that was to protect the overall revenue to D1 from being diluted too much. But there is a more recent upswing due to conference realignment as the P5 conferences get bigger they have to get teams from other conferences, who take their teams...and you have some smaller conferences facing dissolution or survival through growth from below. That is partly why Lindenwood and Stonehill of the NE10 (wlax only) are not only moving to D1 but starting a D1 schedule next year.

Queens is also likely to move given all the rumors, but the lateness of the move means they will still compete in D2 for a year or two (two is the max for a transitioning team).

[WhiteCarrera]

Yes - I've heard the Queens rumors too.

...and palaxoff, I'm not sure the playoff roster limit is that big of a deal. Like you said, the number getting competitive PT is usually fewer than 25, so the limit's fair in exchange for supporting and expanding the bracket. Larger rosters become a numbers game -- the more you recruit, the stronger you're best 25 (or 32) will eventually be.

Coaches will always try to recruit numbers, so long as their staff can handle it. Dozens of kids fill roster spots for a year or two until their potential is realized (or not). Many never get real PT. Others come in and develop into unexpected stars. Graeme Hossack at Lindenwood was this way -- no one said, "Look at us. We just signed the future best defensive player in the world!" but he became that.

[WhiteCarrera]

Red - how many of these schools that have jumped to D1 have football? Lindenwood does, Merrimack does -- any others. In some ways, that makes the jump infinitely harder.

And I think this is the last year for Tampa's JV team. Mindsets there have changed.

[RedFromMI]

Red - how many of these schools that have jumped to D1 have football? Lindenwood does, Merrimack does -- any others. In some ways, that makes the jump infinitely harder.

And I think this is the last year for Tampa's JV team. Mindsets there have changed.

Currently in transition (not done yet): https://en.wikipedia.orgwiki/List_of_sc ... Division_I

1. Bellarmine - finished 2024-5 season with transition. Adding sprint football for next year. Was already D1 for men's lax, women's lax in transition.

2. California Baptist - finished next season with transition. Does not have football. No lax.

3. Dixie State (becoming Utah Tech this summer) - finished 2024-5 season with transition. Has football, no lax.

4. Merrimack - finished 2023-4 season with transition. Has football and both lax.

5. North Alabama - finished 2023-4 season with transition. Has football (was one of the best in D2 when there), no lax.

6. St. Thomas - D3 exception to be finished with transition in 2025-6 season. Has football - Pioneer leagues (no scholarships). No lax.

7. Tarleton State - finished with transition in 2024-5 season. Has football, no lax.

8. UCSD - finished 2024-5 season with transition. No football or lax.

Future (all to be finished transitioning in 2026-7 season):

1. Lindenwood - Has both football and both lax. Men's top 5-10, Women top 5 in lax.

2. Southern Indiana - does not have either football or lax.

3. Stonehill - has football, wlax only. Wlax top 20.

4. TAMU-Commerce - has football, no lax.

[wgdsr]

Ok. Your last comment tells me enough about your college lacrosse knowledge. No teams carry 75 kids. 3rd line middies at Salisbury and Tufts are elite

Sorry just feel like throwing some gas of this exciting thread.

Team don't carry 75 (Most D 1 schools have close to 50) but a lot of D3 teams carry over 60 ever see the Buses from Salisbury and Stevenson. This may be the biggest difference between D1and D3. A lot of D3 schools have teams to attract students to their school in all sports. It is a very competitive and shrinking market for college students. I have heard several stories where coaches get bonuses or larger budgets for carrying larger teams. I don't believe that is as true at D 1 schools. On a side note you can only dress 32 for NCAA tournament which I'm sure is a headache for coaches.

As for "elite" 3rd midfield lines. Do they really exist with LSM, SSM, FOGOs and Offensive specialist. In most competitive games there are about 20-22 players who get PT. The likely hood of PT for 3rd midfield is slim. They maybe good players but if they can't crack the top 2 midfields then there not elite. They may be first or second at another school but if the team isn't a TO 10 program kind of reduce the status from elite.

I checked yesterday. Salisbury has 51. D1 programs range as low as high 40’s to over 60 (Navy). As you go down the ranks in D3, the rosters get smaller.

uva carries low to mid 40s usually. at least 4 are walk ons, and they're at 44 now.

manhattan has 38. some other lower level schools are probably in the same boat. a number of ivies are in the low 40s usually, and will be again after the covid bloat.

[LaxCrusader1]

Won't we have a clear answer to this question next year when Salisbury Men's Lax goes D1? Just sayin, if that doesn't settle this debate (just like Hobart moving up apparently didn't), I don't know what will...

[OSVAlacrosse]

Won't we have a clear answer to this question next year when Salisbury Men's Lax goes D1? Just sayin, if that doesn't settle this debate (just like Hobart moving up apparently didn't), I don't know what will...

Salisbury D1?? Someone needs to explain this to you. What day did you learn they were going D1?

[DeepPocket]

Skipping DI, straight to the PLL.

[lando622]

Skipping DI, straight to the PLL.

If they get Sidd Finch’s son to commit at any position, they may have a shot in the PLL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidd_Finch

[wgdsr]

Skipping DI, straight to the PLL.

If they get Sidd Finch’s son to commit at any position, they may have a shot in the PLL.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidd_Finch

what conference will they be in?

[henryben]

This topic is an annual exercise that always falls short of asking the obvious follow up question IMO. Just by having this discussion we should all be able to agree that there is sufficient enough talent in Top 10-15 of D3 lacrosse that I think the better (or next) question is - Would you rather be middle to end of the bench on a D1 program that never makes the NCAA tournament or would you rather START on high level D3 program that often makes deep runs in May? When you throw in the fact that you're probably getting a better degree; more aid money and can do a semester abroad to boot at that D3 program - to me its a no brainer. Go D3 all day every day! Any thoughts?

Generally you're probably right but there are exceptions. Would a kid rather fight for playing time at a Bucknell, Colgate, etc. (teams that rarely make the NCAA tourney but are great schools and are competitive in their conference), or start at a Cabrini or Salisbury?

I don't mean that as a knock on Cabrini, Salisbury, etc. from an academic perspective. You can get a great education anywhere, if you want. But IN GENERAL, a Patriot League School, or even a Richmond, etc. would win this comparison...

[Lax3]

Original question - the difference is size, speed or both.

[OSVAlacrosse]

As long as we are playing the "what if?" game, I saw Saint Johns College High School in DC play a few times this season. How would they compete v. a college team? Are they a mid level D3? lower level D1? I don't think a HS team can compete with them this year. I would also look at the coach as the next hire if I were a college AD.

[InsiderRoll]

As long as we are playing the "what if?" game, I saw Saint Johns College High School in DC play a few times this season. How would they compete v. a college team? Are they a mid level D3? lower level D1? I don't think a HS team can compete with them this year. I would also look at the coach as the next hire if I were a college AD.

Let’s settle down a bit. They’re great. They would struggle against any top 40-50 D3 team. Honestly anything below that is club lacrosse with an NCAA label slapped on it.

Wes Speaks was an assistant at Gettysburg before taking the St. John’s job. As I remember a lot of people thought he was a solid coach and a good man, but a little odd. He left college coaching a while back because he wanted the stability and lessened stress of HS, why would he go back?