2021 NCAA Tournament

[Farfromgeneva]

It is the nature of national awards. Setting aside how stupid it is when folks call the T the lacrosse version of the Heisman, but if Suh didn't win it in football his senior year it tells you about the nature of all national awards. Mutombo didn't win it over LJ their last college year in BB either.

(Suh came in fourth in a season quarterbacks were rolling out before the snap to avoid being tossed around like a rag doll to these stiffs:

1 Mark ingram* Alabama SO RB 227 236 151 1304 271 Att, 1658 Yds, 6.1 Avg, 17 TD
2 Toby Gerhart* Stanford SR RB 222 225 160 1276 343 Att, 1871 Yds, 5.5 Avg, 28 TD
3 Colt McCoy* Texas SR QB 203 188 160 1145 332 Cmp, 470 Att, 3521 Yds, 27 TD, 12 Int
4 Ndamukong Suh* Nebraska SR DL 161 105 122 815 52 Solo, 33 Ast, 12.0 Sk, 1 Int

[AreaLax]

ESPN list of who the commentators are going to broken out by games

https://espnpressroom.com/us/press-rele ... -on-espnu/

[jrn19]

Wonder how a kid like Max Seibald ever won it the way they award it the last decade.

There were more players like Seibald during his day. Harrison won it four years prior on similar grounds

[molo]

First winner was a full service middie who faced off.

[jrn19]

First winner was a full service middie who faced off.

Yep. And then Rotelli won it and he played a bunch two ways. Then Harrison and Seibald won it as do-it-all middies.

But there aren’t as many guys like that now. Currier a few years ago? Who should have been a finalist but likely was not chosen because of the silliness that Princeton didn’t make the playoffs. If Terefenko had been healthy this year and OSU was a playoff team I’d have been curious to see the push he got

But it’s an attackmen’s game nowadays. The way guys like Seibald and Harrison used to dominate, now it’s Bernhardt and Gray who do that. Enners Award similarly has shifted to being won by attackmen and they were even more positionally diverse in the 2000’s

[Farfromgeneva]

Wonder how a kid like Max Seibald ever won it the way they award it the last decade.

There were more players like Seibald during his day. Harrison won it four years prior on similar grounds

I know they still exist maybe not this season but middies get little love.

I have Siebald a hair ahead of Harrison as best middie in the last 30-35yrs

[jrn19]

Wonder how a kid like Max Seibald ever won it the way they award it the last decade.

There were more players like Seibald during his day. Harrison won it four years prior on similar grounds

I know they still exist maybe not this season but middies get little love.

I have Siebald a hair ahead of Harrison as best middie in the last 30-35yrs

When was the last time you saw a guy like Seibald in the college game? Currier? He graduated 4 years ago. Before that it’s....probably Seibald

Ryan Conrad was a one of a kind player. Tinney also excellent both ways and on wings.

But neither of those guys also take faceoffs the way Seibald did and Harrison did and Doug Shanahan did.

Nowawadays, while Bernhardt and Gray et al. are amazing; there have been other attackmen who have matches their exploits recently. There’s a run on elite attackmen

I’m sure sometime it’ll shift back the other way.

[10stone5]

Gaits ?

[Farfromgeneva]

Wonder how a kid like Max Seibald ever won it the way they award it the last decade.

There were more players like Seibald during his day. Harrison won it four years prior on similar grounds

I know they still exist maybe not this season but middies get little love.

I have Siebald a hair ahead of Harrison as best middie in the last 30-35yrs

When was the last time you saw a guy like Seibald in the college game? Currier? He graduated 4 years ago. Before that it’s....probably Seibald

Ryan Conrad was a one of a kind player. Tinney also excellent both ways and on wings.

But neither of those guys also take faceoffs the way Seibald did and Harrison did and Doug Shanahan did.

Nowawadays, while Bernhardt and Gray et al. are amazing; there have been other attackmen who have matches their exploits recently. There’s a run on elite attackmen

I’m sure sometime it’ll shift back the other way.

Mold-wise yeah Currier and Conrad. Realistically though four years is like two seasons given the mess in 20 and this year. But it does seem like there has been a shift back to two way and the shot clock might accelerate that.

But how close did Currier and Conrad get to the T?

Hard to argue w some of the last few (Spencer was great but that felt like lifetime achivement) when you look at (descending)
Reeves
Rambo
Malloy
Thompson’s couple of years
Panels
Baum
Stanwick

I can’t argue reeves or Rambo. Same w Thompson’s wo were sort of transcendent in the game.

I guess we could look at the years Malloy, Pannell, Baum and Dtanwick won but may have just been a run on amazing attackmen this past decade.

[Farfromgeneva]

Fun game to play repicking awards

I can’t think of any D mean last decade so transcendent, same w goalie. Few off the charts FOGOs. Hence my focus on middies.

[jrn19]

Wonder how a kid like Max Seibald ever won it the way they award it the last decade.

There were more players like Seibald during his day. Harrison won it four years prior on similar grounds

I know they still exist maybe not this season but middies get little love.

I have Siebald a hair ahead of Harrison as best middie in the last 30-35yrs

When was the last time you saw a guy like Seibald in the college game? Currier? He graduated 4 years ago. Before that it’s....probably Seibald

Ryan Conrad was a one of a kind player. Tinney also excellent both ways and on wings.

But neither of those guys also take faceoffs the way Seibald did and Harrison did and Doug Shanahan did.

Nowawadays, while Bernhardt and Gray et al. are amazing; there have been other attackmen who have matches their exploits recently. There’s a run on elite attackmen

I’m sure sometime it’ll shift back the other way.

Mold-wise yeah Currier and Conrad. Realistically though four years is like two seasons given the mess in 20 and this year. But it does seem like there has been a shift back to two way and the shot clock might accelerate that.

But how close did Currier and Conrad get to the T?

Hard to argue w some of the last few (Spencer was great but that felt like lifetime achivement) when you look at (descending)
Reeves
Rambo
Malloy
Thompson’s couple of years
Panels
Baum
Stanwick

I can’t argue reeves or Rambo. Same w Thompson’s wo were sort of transcendent in the game.

I guess we could look at the years Malloy, Pannell, Baum and Dtanwick won but may have just been a run on amazing attackmen this past decade.

They didn't. should have been closer; both should have been finalists. But Conrad didn't take faceoffs the way Seibald or Harrison did and Currier unfortunately got caught with so many underachieving Princeton teams.

As for the attackmen winners, I think they got it right pretty much each time. Thought Ament should have won over Spencer but Spencer those last few games was on an unfathomable level. Molloy and Baum both put up crazy numbers and elevated programs to some of their best seasons in school history.

Stanwick was an amazing player but that felt like one where the narrative of UVA that year and the tournament overshadowed things. Galloway, White, and Pannell were better that year IMO

[Nassaufan]

This weekend's schedule. Good luck to all!

Saturday, May 15

No. 1 North Carolina vs. Monmouth, 12:00 p.m.
No. 8 Lehigh vs. Rutgers, 2:30 p.m.
No. 6 Notre Dame vs. Drexel, 5:00 p.m.
No. 5 Georgetown vs. Syracuse, 7:30 p.m.

Sunday, May 16

No. 4 Virginia vs. Bryant, 12:00 p.m.
No. 3 Maryland vs. Vermont, 2:30 p.m.
No. 2 Duke vs. High Point, 5:00 p.m.
No. 7 Denver vs. Loyola Maryland, 7:30 p.m.

[johnnyonthegunpowder]

Let's hope these games are not drown out by the endless narcissistic chatter of QAC. I'm watching the NCAA Soccer tournament, and the announcers are excellent.

[AreaLax]

Let's hope these games are not drown out by the endless narcissistic chatter of QAC. I'm watching the NCAA Soccer tournament, and the announcers are excellent.

Q/A are doing the GT/Cuse game and Maryland /VT. They are both at Maryland so they will be doing a lot of complaining. At this point they don’t know anything different.

Carc will be with Cotter doing the games that at Virginia. Don’t know if any of them will be on site

[NYVA631]

DraftKings added college lacrosse this morning for those that are interested in wagering

[10stone5]

Two Hours and Counting

[Farfromgeneva]

Let's hope these games are not drown out by the endless narcissistic chatter of QAC. I'm watching the NCAA Soccer tournament, and the announcers are excellent.

Q/A are doing the GT/Cuse game and Maryland /VT. They are both at Maryland so they will be doing a lot of complaining. At this point they don’t know anything different.

Carc will be with Cotter doing the games that at Virginia. Don’t know if any of them will be on site

I’ve heard in real life he’s a good person but my impression of Carc

“Bro, Pressler knows how to put a team together of ponies. I mean he really got shafted at duke for letting the kids throw a rager, I mean EPIC BRO! How’s my hat? Is the brim flat enough that the high school kids will like it? Bro, UVA has some sweet kids, the girls are going to be all over it Bro.”

[NYSection1]

I think the top 3 Big East teams deserve it over Rutgers. If Hopkins wins, that steals a spot. But if Maryland wins out, who has Rutgers beaten? At least G'town has the win over Denver. Nova has the win over Lehigh (for whatever that is worth at the moment) and Denver seems solid for at large as is if they don't win conference.

I think GTown and Denver are both pretty safely in. I don't think Nova should (or will) get in over Rutgers. They had 5 chances to beat GTown and Denver and lost all of them. Lehigh was a solid win but their other wins—Marquette, Providence, and St. John's—are even worse than Rutgers' wins. Those teams are a combined 9-27. I think Rutgers' 8 wins over Hop, OSU, PSU, and Mich stack up much better than those. I also think it's fair to say Rutgers would have won at least 1 if given 5 shots against GTown/Denver but of course that's just conjecture. We'll never know—unless they play in the tourney.

Hopfan, I appreciate your analysis, but I disagree with the conclusion and the comparison between the records of Nova and Rutgers. Nova deserved a spot over Rutgers.

The standards used to select teams for the tournament are admittedly vague, so subjectivity and debates are to be expected. The standards likely include “quality wins,” strength of schedule, RPI and recently, the “eye test” and “trending.”

Nova had a stronger schedule, had a convincing quality win, passed the eye test ability standard against three top ranked teams, and was scoring against top-ten talent at the end of the season and therefore “trending.” Nova’s performances versus Lehigh, Denver on Georgetown on and Georgetown certainly favorably illustrate the higher caliber of Villanova, and do so in a more convincing manner than Rutgers’s two games against Maryland

Rutgers had no quality wins, was not trending (and even had a lower RPI). Rutgers has not beaten a team with a winning record. Rutgers’ late season “trend” includes a loss to 4-8 Johns Hopkins on May 6th and a win over 3-8 Michigan by a goal on April 25th.
Rutgers lost to Maryland, its only ranked opponent, by 7 goals on March 13th and by 4 goals on March 28th.

The combined record of all of Rutgers’ opponents is 22-18.
The combined record of all of Nova’s opponents is 33-33.

Since April 1st, Nova scored 110 goals and gave up 63, a time period that included four games against ranked opponents.

There is no outside conference comparison for Rutgers, but there is for Villanova. The Cats dominated #5 Lehigh for four quarters, leading 12-1 in the third quarter, winning 16-8. Even though Lehigh held a huge faceoff advantage, Nova outplayed a very good, top-ten team at all levels.
The Nova-Georgetown Big East tournament game on May 5th ending in a 14-12 Hoya victory was a battle that outshined Rutgers Big10 tournament loss to Hopkins a day later on May 6th.

This dominant victory over Lehigh more than satisfied the “eye test” standard that Towson AD stated was utilized in their decision-making process. Rutgers not only lacked a comparative victory and comparative competition of Nova, the Knights had no victory against a team with a winning record.

[FannOLax]

Rutgers' win proved that Rutgers belongs, and augurs well for Maryland.
Georgetown looking like a complete team... but Cuse goalie looking good, keeping the result in doubt, for now at least.

[Unknown Participant]

Let's hope these games are not drown out by the endless narcissistic chatter of QAC. I'm watching the NCAA Soccer tournament, and the announcers are excellent.

Q/A are doing the GT/Cuse game and Maryland /VT. They are both at Maryland so they will be doing a lot of complaining. At this point they don’t know anything different.

Carc will be with Cotter doing the games that at Virginia. Don’t know if any of them will be on site

I’ve heard in real life he’s a good person but my impression of Carc

“Bro, Pressler knows how to put a team together of ponies. I mean he really got shafted at duke for letting the kids throw a rager, I mean EPIC BRO! How’s my hat? Is the brim flat enough that the high school kids will like it? Bro, UVA has some sweet kids, the girls are going to be all over it Bro.”

I am okay with Carc and I think he generally provides good insight. Presumably, he has cleaned up his act over the past few. A lot of anti-Carc bias in this forum, but I, a huge consumer of college lacrosse on TV/internet, can attest that he is in the top third. I'll take Boyle and maybe Cotter (Zimmerman too, but he tends to pander a bit) and the LSN guys (Gurenlian (sp?) with good color) at the top, and then the ESPN crew.