Face-off Preseason All-Americans

[Cooter]

https://www.insidelacrosse.com/article/ ... cans/53464

First Team
A- Pat Spencer, Sr., Loyola
A- Jeff Teat, Jr., Cornell
A- Michael Sowers, Jr., Princeton
M- Dox Aitken, Jr., Virginia
M- Brad Smith, Sr., Duke
M- Bryan Costabile, Jr., Notre Dame
FO- TD Ierlan, Jr., Yale
SSDM- Zach Goodrich, Sr., Towson
LSM/D- Craig Chick, Sr., Lehigh
D- Chris Fake, So., Yale
D- Patrick Foley, Sr., Johns Hopkins
D- Johnny Surdick, Sr., Army
G- Alex Heger, Sr., Robert Morris
G- Nick Washuta, Jr., Vermont

other three teams and HM at link above. They kept the number of Honorable Mentions low this year.

[Dunker]

Thanks for posting Cooter. 1st 3 teams have only three players in total from blue bloods Cuse, UNC, and Hop. Times are a changing.

[xxxxxxx]

I did a quick look and found the honors more spread out than I thought they would be:

Big10 16
ACC 15
Ivy 7
Patriot 6
CAA 4
A East 4
B East 3
NEC 2
SoCon 1

Some points of interest, Big 10 has one 1st Team player, four 2nd Team, two 3rd Team, and nine HM. ACC more spread out three 1st Team, four 2nd Team, five 3rd Team three HM. I am surprised that Yale has 4 of the 7 Ivy considering all that they graduated and some other very talented Ivy Teams. However they are the defending champs and that should count. I also think the Patriot and CAA are under represented with 6 and 4 respectively, but understand how this works. I also can't believe that the Big East only has 3 total and all of them are from Denver.

Considering that the Final Four last year was Teams from four different conferences Ivy, ACC, Big 10, and Am East the balance has yet to catch up to the guys picking All Americans. Based on this you would think only the Big 10 and ACC had the talent to get to a Final Four. I also understand that the ACC and Big10 play against tougher competition so their numbers should be more weighted. Overall pretty interesting list and congrats to all who are on it.

[Henpecked]

Tough to argue with any of these selections. So many great players and it will be great to see Ryan Conrad back on the field for UVA.

The only question I have is about Brent Noseworthy for Michigan. A great off ball lefty finisher, but not sure why he is listed as a midfielder. I’ve personally never seen that guy more than five yards away from the front of the crease. I always thought he was a crease attackman. He was even listed as an attackman on several sites.

No matter, the lines have been blurred on A/M over the years. Very few Ryan Conrad’s out there anymore. Maybe the shot clock will have an impact on that? It will be interesting to match up preseason and post season AAs in May. I think you’ll see some surprises.

[OCanada]

Tehoka on third team. How far ahead do they go to print or is there a hard copy anymore ? if not seems odd to leave him in

[FannOLax]

They say there is a hard copy coming soon. I think I saw word on the Albany board that TN might be back in the spring, although I'd understood that this wouldn't be the case.

[Cooter]

The only question I have is about Brent Noseworthy for Michigan. A great off ball lefty finisher, but not sure why he is listed as a midfielder. I’ve personally never seen that guy more than five yards away from the front of the crease. I always thought he was a crease attackman. He was even listed as an attackman on several sites.

I probably would have put Tre LeClaire on the 2nd team in Noseworthy's spot, and maybe put Noseworthy on the 3rd team or HM. I think LeClaire is a better midfielder.

That being said, Noseworthy did score 48pts and all goals count the same.

[dense]

They say there is a hard copy coming soon. I think I saw word on the Albany board that TN might be back in the spring, although I'd understood that academics precluded this.

Told by avid Albany fan, that he will definitely be back this upcoming semester and immediately eligible.

[HopFan16]

The only question I have is about Brent Noseworthy for Michigan. A great off ball lefty finisher, but not sure why he is listed as a midfielder. I’ve personally never seen that guy more than five yards away from the front of the crease. I always thought he was a crease attackman. He was even listed as an attackman on several sites.

I probably would have put Tre LeClaire on the 2nd team in Noseworthy's spot, and maybe put Noseworthy on the 3rd team or HM. I think LeClaire is a better midfielder.

That being said, Noseworthy did score 48pts and all goals count the same.

LeClaire isn't a midfielder either.

If you never come off the field, you should be listed at attack for All-American purposes. Otherwise your stats seem extremely inflated compared to other actual midfielders, as was the case with Connor Kelly. LeClaire should be measured up against other players who have the same amount of offensive opportunity as he does. Who cares if he never plays behind the net. That doesn't mean he's not an attackman. Assessing him on the same parameters as someone who is on the field for literally half as many possessions is silly. If this were the Oscars, you'd call it "category fraud."

Also interested to see if people will still call Brad Smith a middie if he continues to play more and more attack and never leave the field. Especially with Guterding now gone I think that's pretty likely.

[Cooter]

When I watched OSU last season, LeClaire was playing up top (near the restraining line) looking for openings for his big shot like an offensive midfielder. I imagine there is not really that much difference between standing on the sideline or standing on the field when the defensive midfielders are in, and given OSU's offensive personnel, it would seem like a wise coaching choice to leave LeClaire on the field hoping to get him an open look for his shot in transition.

In terms of stats, they are generally uneven in D1 lacrosse.
Some things detrimental to LeClaire's stats:
1) He is usually the focus of other team's defenses; getting an LSM or other long pole, who is usually a little loath to slide of LeClaire.
2) OSU plays a slow style, leading to fewer offensive possessions
3) OSU's offense was a bit ineffectual last season, and probably didn't create a lot of openings for LeClaire.

[HopFan16]

When I watched OSU last season, LeClaire was playing up top (near the restraining line) looking for openings for his big shot like an offensive midfielder. I imagine there is not really that much difference between standing on the sideline or standing on the field when the defensive midfielders are in, and given OSU's offensive personnel, it would seem like a wise coaching choice to leave LeClaire on the field hoping to get him an open look for his shot in transition.

In terms of stats, they are generally uneven in D1 lacrosse.
Some things detrimental to LeClaire's stats:
1) He is usually the focus of other team's defenses; getting an LSM or other long pole, who is usually a little loath to slide of LeClaire.
2) OSU plays a slow style, leading to fewer offensive possessions
3) OSU's offense was a bit ineffectual last season, and probably didn't create a lot of openings for LeClaire.

Not arguing that LeClaire's style of play isn't closer to that of a midfielder (that said I have seen him do quite a bit of dodging/shooting from the wing, where a righty attackman would normally be), or that OSU's offense isn't a detriment to his statistical output. But he's a part of the offense for every single one of their offensive possessions. Even with OSU's slow pace he still gets a lot more opportunity to accumulate stats than your average midfielder who's on the field for anywhere from 40-70% or so of a team's possessions, depending on how often they run out their first line. My argument is not specific to LeClaire—teams can list their players however they like but I think things like the All-American voting should separate guys who never ever leave the field and are lynchpins of their teams' offenses from guys who rotate in and out and don't handle the ball as much. If that means adding a few more attackmen per each All-American team, so be it.

[Cooter]

When I watched OSU last season, LeClaire was playing up top (near the restraining line) looking for openings for his big shot like an offensive midfielder. I imagine there is not really that much difference between standing on the sideline or standing on the field when the defensive midfielders are in, and given OSU's offensive personnel, it would seem like a wise coaching choice to leave LeClaire on the field hoping to get him an open look for his shot in transition.

In terms of stats, they are generally uneven in D1 lacrosse.
Some things detrimental to LeClaire's stats:
1) He is usually the focus of other team's defenses; getting an LSM or other long pole, who is usually a little loath to slide of LeClaire.
2) OSU plays a slow style, leading to fewer offensive possessions
3) OSU's offense was a bit ineffectual last season, and probably didn't create a lot of openings for LeClaire.

Not arguing that LeClaire's style of play isn't closer to that of a midfielder (that said I have seen him do quite a bit of dodging/shooting from the wing, where a righty attackman would normally be), or that OSU's offense isn't a detriment to his statistical output. But he's a part of the offense for every single one of their offensive possessions. Even with OSU's slow pace he still gets a lot more opportunity to accumulate stats than your average midfielder who's on the field for anywhere from 40-70% or so of a team's possessions, depending on how often they run out their first line. My argument is not specific to LeClaire—teams can list their players however they like but I think things like the All-American voting should separate guys who never ever leave the field and are lynchpins of their teams' offenses from guys who rotate in and out and don't handle the ball as much. If that means adding a few more attackmen per each All-American team, so be it.

You could just adjust the stats. As I have already mentioned stats have all sorts of factors that make them inconsistent between players.

Have you ever thought that a coach deciding to leave a midfielder in all the time, might be an indicator of the player's abilities.

[HopFan16]

When I watched OSU last season, LeClaire was playing up top (near the restraining line) looking for openings for his big shot like an offensive midfielder. I imagine there is not really that much difference between standing on the sideline or standing on the field when the defensive midfielders are in, and given OSU's offensive personnel, it would seem like a wise coaching choice to leave LeClaire on the field hoping to get him an open look for his shot in transition.

In terms of stats, they are generally uneven in D1 lacrosse.
Some things detrimental to LeClaire's stats:
1) He is usually the focus of other team's defenses; getting an LSM or other long pole, who is usually a little loath to slide of LeClaire.
2) OSU plays a slow style, leading to fewer offensive possessions
3) OSU's offense was a bit ineffectual last season, and probably didn't create a lot of openings for LeClaire.

Not arguing that LeClaire's style of play isn't closer to that of a midfielder (that said I have seen him do quite a bit of dodging/shooting from the wing, where a righty attackman would normally be), or that OSU's offense isn't a detriment to his statistical output. But he's a part of the offense for every single one of their offensive possessions. Even with OSU's slow pace he still gets a lot more opportunity to accumulate stats than your average midfielder who's on the field for anywhere from 40-70% or so of a team's possessions, depending on how often they run out their first line. My argument is not specific to LeClaire—teams can list their players however they like but I think things like the All-American voting should separate guys who never ever leave the field and are lynchpins of their teams' offenses from guys who rotate in and out and don't handle the ball as much. If that means adding a few more attackmen per each All-American team, so be it.

You could just adjust the stats. As I have already mentioned stats have all sorts of factors that make them inconsistent between players.

Have you ever thought that a coach deciding to leave a midfielder in all the time, might be an indicator of the player's abilities.

How would you adjust the stats? That seems more complicated than just tweaking how the AAs are voted on.

[Cooter]

Dox Aitken 121 shots in 18 games
Tre LeClaire 96 shots in 15 games
So maybe you should have a special category for players on teams that run.

[Typical Lax Dad]

When I watched OSU last season, LeClaire was playing up top (near the restraining line) looking for openings for his big shot like an offensive midfielder. I imagine there is not really that much difference between standing on the sideline or standing on the field when the defensive midfielders are in, and given OSU's offensive personnel, it would seem like a wise coaching choice to leave LeClaire on the field hoping to get him an open look for his shot in transition.

In terms of stats, they are generally uneven in D1 lacrosse.
Some things detrimental to LeClaire's stats:
1) He is usually the focus of other team's defenses; getting an LSM or other long pole, who is usually a little loath to slide of LeClaire.
2) OSU plays a slow style, leading to fewer offensive possessions
3) OSU's offense was a bit ineffectual last season, and probably didn't create a lot of openings for LeClaire.

Not arguing that LeClaire's style of play isn't closer to that of a midfielder (that said I have seen him do quite a bit of dodging/shooting from the wing, where a righty attackman would normally be), or that OSU's offense isn't a detriment to his statistical output. But he's a part of the offense for every single one of their offensive possessions. Even with OSU's slow pace he still gets a lot more opportunity to accumulate stats than your average midfielder who's on the field for anywhere from 40-70% or so of a team's possessions, depending on how often they run out their first line. My argument is not specific to LeClaire—teams can list their players however they like but I think things like the All-American voting should separate guys who never ever leave the field and are lynchpins of their teams' offenses from guys who rotate in and out and don't handle the ball as much. If that means adding a few more attackmen per each All-American team, so be it.

You could just adjust the stats. As I have already mentioned stats have all sorts of factors that make them inconsistent between players.

Have you ever thought that a coach deciding to leave a midfielder in all the time, might be an indicator of the player's abilities.

How would you adjust the stats? That seems more complicated than just tweaking how the AAs are voted on.

LeClaire's game has some similarities to Ryan Brown.

[Typical Lax Dad]

The only question I have is about Brent Noseworthy for Michigan. A great off ball lefty finisher, but not sure why he is listed as a midfielder. I’ve personally never seen that guy more than five yards away from the front of the crease. I always thought he was a crease attackman. He was even listed as an attackman on several sites.

I probably would have put Tre LeClaire on the 2nd team in Noseworthy's spot, and maybe put Noseworthy on the 3rd team or HM. I think LeClaire is a better midfielder.

That being said, Noseworthy did score 48pts and all goals count the same.

LeClaire isn't a midfielder either.

If you never come off the field, you should be listed at attack for All-American purposes. Otherwise your stats seem extremely inflated compared to other actual midfielders, as was the case with Connor Kelly. LeClaire should be measured up against other players who have the same amount of offensive opportunity as he does. Who cares if he never plays behind the net. That doesn't mean he's not an attackman. Assessing him on the same parameters as someone who is on the field for literally half as many possessions is silly. If this were the Oscars, you'd call it "category fraud."

Also interested to see if people will still call Brad Smith a middie if he continues to play more and more attack and never leave the field. Especially with Guterding now gone I think that's pretty likely.

Hard to consider a guy a midfielder if he never crosses the midfield line, let alone sub through the box.

[HopFan16]

LeClaire's game has some similarities to Ryan Brown.

Exactly, and Brown was an attackman.

Dox Aitken 121 shots in 18 games
Tre LeClaire 96 shots in 15 games
So maybe you should have a special category for players on teams that run.

That's the equivalent of less than one-half of one shot per game more...

[calourie]

I realize that Yale got more than its' fair share of preseason AA love, but some consideration also might be warrented for crease attackman Matt Gaudet , who, if he is focused, is a highlight reel finishing beast ala UNC's Chris Cloutier, a player who I believe got some AA love his senior season after being deemed the MOP during the previous year's NCAA championships.

[Cooter]

Dox Aitken 121 shots in 18 games
Tre LeClaire 96 shots in 15 games
So maybe you should have a special category for players on teams that run.

That's the equivalent of less than one-half of one shot per game more...

But in the end, it is more, which tends to shows that other factors can be as significant.

[HopFan16]

Dox Aitken 121 shots in 18 games
Tre LeClaire 96 shots in 15 games
So maybe you should have a special category for players on teams that run.

That's the equivalent of less than one-half of one shot per game more...

But in the end, it is more, which tends to shows that other factors can be as significant.

It's statistically negligible.

Given how fast UVA plays and how slow OSU plays, I'd have thought the difference would be much, much greater. If anything it only underscores the point that LeClaire took a heck of a lot of shots last year. I'd wager a lot of money that on a per-possession basis LeClaire took way more shots than Aitken, and pretty much everyone else for that matter.