The Aviation Thread

[DD-Tech]

Worst Place To Be A Pilot

Documentary on the guys that fly Indonesia’s SusiAir. Trying to get their hours to break into the commercial jobs. Fun show.

Been enjoying this one. Can be watched on youtube.

[old salt]

[Brooklyn]

You may watch EAA from Oshkosh WI on youtube. Kool stuff.

[old salt]

Best article I've found on the Kobe crash. Looks like flight into low visibility conditions, loss of spatial awareness & high speed controlled flight into terrain.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/ ... ant-crash/

Could have been averted by landing at Burbank airport (rather than circling there) & filing an instrument flight plan, if the helo was certified for single pilot flight under instrument flight rules (IFR). If not, call a limo & delay tipoff time.

The entire flight could have been safely completed on an IFR flight plan, from t/o to destination, if the helo was cert for single pilot IFR or they had an IFR rated copilot.

Another celebrity tragedy caused by flying into low visibility (a la JFK Jr).
If you can afford an aircraft like that, you can afford to hire an IFR rated copilot.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Best article I've found on the Kobe crash. Looks like flight into low visibility conditions, loss of spatial awareness & high speed controlled flight into terrain.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/ ... ant-crash/

Could have been averted by landing at Burbank airport (rather than circling there) & filing an instrument flight plan, if the helo was certified for single pilot flight under instrument flight rules (IFR). If not, call a limo & delay tipoff time.

The entire flight could have been safely completed on an IFR flight plan, from t/o to destination, if the helo was cert for single pilot IFR or they had an IFR rated copilot.

Another celebrity tragedy caused by flying into low visibility (a la JFK Jr).
If you can afford an aircraft like that, you can afford to hire an IFR rated copilot.

Early report yesterday that the pilot could fly IFR and was experienced but that could have been bad info. Also the were held in that circling pattern until they were cleared to go. May have been some traffic in front of them but I am sure more information will be forthcoming. Seemed avoidable. I thought about JFK Jr. and the similarities.

[old salt]

Best article I've found on the Kobe crash. Looks like flight into low visibility conditions, loss of spatial awareness & high speed controlled flight into terrain.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/ ... ant-crash/

Could have been averted by landing at Burbank airport (rather than circling there) & filing an instrument flight plan, if the helo was certified for single pilot flight under instrument flight rules (IFR). If not, call a limo & delay tipoff time.

The entire flight could have been safely completed on an IFR flight plan, from t/o to destination, if the helo was cert for single pilot IFR or they had an IFR rated copilot.

Another celebrity tragedy caused by flying into low visibility (a la JFK Jr).
If you can afford an aircraft like that, you can afford to hire an IFR rated copilot.

Early report yesterday that the pilot could fly IFR and was experienced but that could have been bad info. Also the were held in that circling pattern until they were cleared to go. May have been some traffic in front of them but I am sure more information will be forthcoming. Seemed avoidable. I thought about JFK Jr. and the similarities.

The pilot was cert for IFR flight & as an IFR instructor, but unless the helo had a 3 axis autopilot, it requires 2 IFR pilots for flight under IFR.
He was operating single pilot under visual flight rules (VFR). He could not pass through Burbank airports airspace because their weather was below VFR minimums. He circled, until Burbank Tower could arrange a Special VFR clearance through their airspace. That's a clearance to operate clear of clouds, with the pilot responsible for his own terrain clearance & aircraft separation. After transiting Burbank's airspace, he encountered rising terrain/lowering visibility. If he didn't have & use an auto pilot, he may have become disoriented & developed vertigo before he could climb above the rising terrain. He was in a turn back to the SW toward Camarillo airport, but he was too low to clear the coastal mountains. He was below 2000 ft when Burbank could not maintain radar contact to give him the fight following he requested. The min altitude for the initial approach fix into Camarillo is 4000 ft, due to the high terrain in that area.

[Typical Lax Dad]

Best article I've found on the Kobe crash. Looks like flight into low visibility conditions, loss of spatial awareness & high speed controlled flight into terrain.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/ ... ant-crash/

Could have been averted by landing at Burbank airport (rather than circling there) & filing an instrument flight plan, if the helo was certified for single pilot flight under instrument flight rules (IFR). If not, call a limo & delay tipoff time.

The entire flight could have been safely completed on an IFR flight plan, from t/o to destination, if the helo was cert for single pilot IFR or they had an IFR rated copilot.

Another celebrity tragedy caused by flying into low visibility (a la JFK Jr).
If you can afford an aircraft like that, you can afford to hire an IFR rated copilot.

Early report yesterday that the pilot could fly IFR and was experienced but that could have been bad info. Also the were held in that circling pattern until they were cleared to go. May have been some traffic in front of them but I am sure more information will be forthcoming. Seemed avoidable. I thought about JFK Jr. and the similarities.

The pilot was cert for IFR flight & as an IFR instructor, but unless the helo had a 3 axis autopilot, it requires 2 IFR pilots for flight under IFR.
He was operating single pilot under visual flight rules (VFR). He could not pass through Burbank airports airspace because their weather was below VFR minimums. He circled, until Burbank Tower could arrange a Special VFR clearance through their airspace. That's a clearance to operate clear of clouds, with the pilot responsible for his own terrain clearance & aircraft separation. After transiting Burbank's airspace, he encountered rising terrain/lowering visibility. If he didn't have & use an auto pilot, he may have become disoriented & developed vertigo before he could climb above the rising terrain. He was in a turn back to the SW toward Camarillo airport, but he was too low to clear the coastal mountains. He was below 2000 ft when Burbank could not maintain radar contact to give him the fight following he requested. The min altitude for the initial approach fix into Camarillo is 4000 ft, due to the high terrain in that area.

Ok. Thanks. A friend of mine won 2 titles with him. Just sad.

[old salt]

If not a WP subscriber, her's a lengthy, but helpful, excerpt that has the key info :

About 15 minutes into the flight, N72EX entered a holding pattern just west of Glendale. It remained in this pattern, circling for about 10 to 15 minutes, unable to cross from Los Angeles airspace into a region controlled by Hollywood Burbank Airport. Part of the delay was caused by a transition to “special VFR rules.”

When a pilot is granted permission to fly, each flight is operated under “VFR” or “IFR” regulations.

Visual flight rules (VFR) describe conditions that allow the pilot to fly by sight. Assuming the weather is calm and visibility is high, operation and navigation of an aircraft can largely rely on what a pilot sees. According to the Federal Aviation Administration, “VFR flight is based on the principle of ‘see and avoid.’ ”

Instrument flight rules, or IFR, on the other hand, are mandated when an aircraft cannot be safely operated visually. This may occur at night, during adverse weather or in complex topography. The FAA publishes a list of minimum conditions required to permit VFR flying. If those can’t be met, then a flight is required to plan its course under IFR restrictions.

Pilot requirements for IFR flights are considerably more stringent than for pilots permitted to fly VFR flights.

As the helicopter transitioned into Burbank’s airspace, the pilot requested — and was approved — to press on under “special VFR” flight conditions.

That’s a designation that allows pilots to continue operating as a VFR flight even in conditions below VFR limits. A switch to IFR could have been more time-consuming in such busy airspace. There’s also some question as to whether this particular S-76B model had the necessary avionics for a single pilot to operate it under IFR conditions.

“IFR changes the game quite a bit,” said Jerry Kidrick, a 35-year Army helicopter veteran and a professor of advanced helicopter operations at Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University.

“If you’re filing IFR, then you’ll take off from your departure airport and you’ll climb up and [Air Traffic Control] will give you an altitude where you’ll mix in with all the other IFR traffic. Typically, they’re going to take you up on a routing that is not convenient. It’s way more difficult to do that and make it to your destination [quickly]," Kidrick said.

Between 9:40 and 9:44 a.m., the chopper flew between 1,000 and 1,200 feet high. The helicopter passed in the vicinity of Van Nuys Airport before reportedly turning southwest toward the Calabasas Hills. The 9:51 a.m. weather observation at the airport, taken around the time of the crash, recorded visibility of 2.5 miles with 80 percent relative humidity and a ceiling of 1,300 feet. Winds were calm. Haze was also reported.

During this period, it would appear as though the helicopter was flying below the clouds. Much of Simi Valley tends between 600 and 700 feet ambient elevation, and the aircraft was probably about 300 to 500 feet above the surface. Under special VFR conditions, aircraft are generally required to maintain an altitude of at least 500 feet above the ground and 1,000 feet above the nearest obstacle. Helicopters, according to the FAA, “may be operated at less than the minimum altitudes prescribed” for other aircraft operating in special VFR.

Helicopters are also permitted to fly in special-VFR mode even if the visibility is below the 1,000-foot threshold required by pilots of other aircraft.

Meteorological analysis suggest the pilot’s altitude at the time allowed the helicopter to continue just below the layer of dense overcast/low cloud cover. It was flying parallel to U.S. 101, based on FlightAware tracking data. (Following major highways is common during special-VFR conditions.)

But it appears the pilot encountered trouble, possibly fog, substantially reduced visibility or a mechanical problem.

At 9:44 a.m., the helicopter began to ascend rapidly, climbing 875 feet in the following 36 seconds. That’s a rapid ascent — one that Kidrick describes as a “spatial disorientation profile.”

“That pace at which he climbed indicates he’s trying to get out of there, or he got spatially disoriented,” Kidrick said. “That’s a very common thing [investigators] find post-crash; the pilot makes rapid corrections and rapid maneuvering. … He does something radical to try to change that. It appears something went wrong.”

In situations like that, Kidrick said, pilots “do things with the controls they otherwise wouldn’t normally do.” He described it as a “panic situation.”

That sudden climb probably carried the helicopter into a layer of fully saturated air and extremely low visibility. Cheeseboro, a weather station northwest of the crash site at 1,700 feet elevation, reported 100 percent relative humidity at the time of the crash, indicating the helicopter was probably in the clouds at the time.

It’s likely that the nearby hilly high terrain was largely or completely obscured by fog. Photos from the scene depict a misty veil of fog, while satellite imagery from above captured low clouds and fog dominating early in the day. The fog did not begin to burn off until around lunchtime.

At 9:45 a.m., the helicopter abruptly turned from a south-southwesterly direction to southeasterly and eventually easterly. During the same time frame, the helicopter’s ground speed surged, and its altitude — if the FlightAware data is correct — dropped 350 feet in 6 seconds. No additional data is available after 9:45 a.m. and 29 seconds.

Based on this and the resulting debris patterns, many pilots have conjectured that this may have been an instance of “controlled flight into terrain,” during which a mechanically stable aircraft is flown under controlled conditions into an object or the ground. These incidents typically occur when visibility is an issue and historically have been one of the biggest causes of aviation accidents.

What pilots do when ‘spatially disoriented’
According to Kidrick, when a helicopter pilot suddenly finds himself or herself “inside the soup,” or shrouded in fog, the best option is not to turn around. That can exacerbate ongoing disorientation. “That’s the key. Your brain is telling you one thing, and your instruments are telling you another. That’s the critical time.”

Instead, the best course of action is to slow forward speed, stabilize the aircraft and level out, and gradually climb. Only once pilots feel safe should they contact air traffic control, which will route other aircraft around and away from the distressed or disoriented helicopter.

[njbill]

Old salt, have you seen or listened to this, which is the communications with air traffic control and a map showing the flight path of the helicopter? Would be interested in your thoughts.

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... estigation

[njbill]

I also read somewhere, I think in an LA Times article, that witnesses on the ground heard sounds from the helicopter which suggested to them it was in trouble. One witness speculated it was trying to land. This suggest possible mechanical issues.

I hear you about delaying tip off, but my understanding is this was a multi-team tournament. Wouldn’t surprise me if organizers would require all teams, even one coached by Kobe, to be on time in order to keep the entire tournament on schedule. Otherwise, they probably would forfeit a team that wasn’t ready to play. Just a guess.

[old salt]

Old salt, have you seen or listened to this, which is the communications with air traffic control and a map showing the flight path of the helicopter? Would be interested in your thoughts.

https://www.latimes.com/california/stor ... estigation

I'll review it bill to see if there's anything new.
This ET report with a company pilot is informative.
He indicates they are a Charter carrier, operating under FAR part 135, certified only for operations under VFR.
So filing an IFR flight plan for the trip, or picking up an IFR clearance enroute, was not an option.
That puts the pilot under a lot of pressure to "scud run" when you have a high $$$ client to deliver.
For visibility, the LA basin can really become a milk bowl, intermittently, in a hurry.
Listening to the ATC tapes, the tower controllers at Burbank & Van Nuys were very helpful getting him through their airspace.
They have a lot of VFR helo traffic, following published routes over freeways. The controllers adroitly weave them through the IFR deparures/arrivals from their runways. It's really busy airspace, with many airports, ringed by coastal mountains. It's a challenge, especially VFR in low visibility.
Based on the ATC tapes, once he cleared Van Nuys airspace he reported VFR conditions, climbing to 1500 ft, following the Hwy 101 route to Camarillo. Probably thought he was in the clear, then looks like he encountered a milk bowl in a mountain pass & lost visual contact with the terrain.
The noises heard on the ground might have been rapid power application in a panic climb &/or departure from controlled flight.
The pilot was apparently quite experienced. He was the company chief pilot. They should hire some co pilots or invest in 3 axis autopilots & attain a FAR 135 IFR ceritification. It's a significant added expense, but it will now be a selling point in the high dollar LA helo marketplace.

[njbill]

Thanks.

[Kismet]

Based on the ATC tapes, once he cleared Van Nuys airspace he reported VFR conditions, climbing to 1500 ft, following the Hwy 101 route to Camarillo. Probably thought he was in the clear, then looks like he encountered a milk bowl in a mountain pass & lost visual contact with the terrain.

Yep. Suspect pilot disorientation as he attempted to climb above the cloud deck and get tracking from SoCal ATC in an area of inhospitable terrain. Even the best and most experienced pilots would be in trouble and seconds away from a bad decision especially if their senses betray them. There was a report from someone in the immediate area on the ground that visibility at the surface was near zero and driving was near impossible.

No voice or data recorder aboard.

FAA statement indicated that any special clearance from air traffic controllers would have allowed the pilot to fly through the controlled airspace around Burbank and Van Nuys, but would not give the flight “blanket clearance” to continue on from there to Calabasas. SOP. Given that his company's license did not permit IFR, he was instrument-rated and could have asked ATC for IFR clearance at some point when he knew where he was in relation to the ground and terrain.

[old salt]

Based on the ATC tapes, once he cleared Van Nuys airspace he reported VFR conditions, climbing to 1500 ft, following the Hwy 101 route to Camarillo. Probably thought he was in the clear, then looks like he encountered a milk bowl in a mountain pass & lost visual contact with the terrain.

Yep. Suspect pilot disorientation as he attempted to climb above the cloud deck and get tracking from SoCal ATC in an area of inhospitable terrain. Even the best and most experienced pilots would be in trouble and seconds away from a bad decision especially if their senses betray them. There was a report from someone in the immediate area on the ground that visibility at the surface was near zero and driving was near impossible.

No voice or data recorder aboard.

FAA statement indicated that any special clearance from air traffic controllers would have allowed the pilot to fly through the controlled airspace around Burbank and Van Nuys, but would not give the flight “blanket clearance” to continue on from there to Calabasas. SOP. Given that his company's license did not permit IFR, he was instrument-rated and could have asked ATC for IFR clearance at some point when he knew where he was in relation to the ground and terrain.

He successfully transited Burbank's, then Van Nuy's airspace on a Special VFR clearance, which the 2 tower controllers adroitly issued him as he neared their airspace. As he was exiting Van Nuy's airspace, the tower asked him if he was going to pickup the Hwy 118 route -- straight ahead of him, since he was transiting on the N side of the airport. He said he'd exit to the SW & pick up the Hwy 101 route, ...which took him into the milkbowl in a narrow mountain pass. I was really impressed by the professionalism & helpfulness of ATC. They obviously move a lot of helo traffic in busy, marginal VMC. They discretely offered him some helpful options, which he declined.

To then (after Van Nuys) pick up an IFR clearance while inflight, the (single) pilot would have had to (rapidly) climb to above the Minimum Safe Altiitude for that sector (likely 3000'-4000') into IMC (without a clearance) & negotiate an IFR "popup" clearance with SoCal Approach. That poses a risk to other acft operating IFR in that area & would have been a FAR violation. A (single) pilot would have been challenged to fly the aircraft, rapidly climbing, while transitioning to flight referenced to instruments rather than visual cues. He'd additionaly need to readback the IFR clearance & set up his flight instruments to navigate to Camarillo & execute an instrument approach. All technically possible, but difficult if not prepared for in advance. Plus, that aircraft might not have had a GPS capable of/ certified for instrument approaches.

That would have violated FAR's by entering IMC without an IFR clearance. The pilot would also need to be prepared to quickly pickup an IFR clearance. Since they were a FAR 135 VFR only operation, it's not likely that he was prepared to do that, given that he'd be risking a FAR violation for himself & his company. A more prudent choice would have been to reverse course sooner, return to Van Nuys & land, until the fog lifted or he could arrange ground transport. One of the articles showed that acft had made that trip several times, usually transiting from the I-5 to Hwy 101 route, south of Burbank & Van Nuys airspace, rather than north, this time. A southern transition may have given the pilot more time to get established on the Hwy 101 route & recognize the "milk bowl" ahead with sufficient time & terrain clearance to safely reverse course.

This was the classic scud running, Special VFR accident. You can do it if you're equipped, certified & proficient at rapidly picking up an IFR clearance & transitioning to flight in IMC. You may even get away with it if you call Approach Control on the phone & thank them, ....before they report you to the local FAA FSDO for a potential flight violation for busting into their IFR traffic flow. I predict we'll learn that scud running in marginal VMC, often using Special VFR clearances, was SOP for this company. To operate routinely throughout the LA basin in helos, it's the only way to do it if not IFR capable & certified. I predict heightened FAA oversight of FAR 135 helo operators in the LA area,

[Kismet]

Think you are spot on across the board espcially about not realizing the existence or extent of the milk bowl nearing Camarillo. LA Basin weather especially this time of the year can be very challenging and quickly changeable. Terrain also complicates things multi-fold and reduces margin for error by pilots.

Report today from NTSB lead investigator Jennifer Homendy, that they found the pilot's IPad in the wreckage that included the ForeFlight application, which pilots use while in the air to review flight plans, monitor weather briefings and more. Investigators will review the iPad and other evidence recovered from the crash site, which extended about 500 to 600 feet away from the center of the wreckage. Fortunate given the nature of the apparent high-speed impact with the ground.

This is more and more looking like a case of CFIT, Controlled Flight Into Terrain.

This eyewitness account is very telling

"When the helicopter reached Burbank, where the foothills rise above the Los Angeles basin, controllers kept the aircraft circling for 12 minutes, clearing other traffic, according to the N.T.S.B. They then issued a special visual clearance for Mr. Bryant’s flight to pass through their airspace under less-than-optimal visual conditions. The assumption was that the pilot would maintain legal clearance from clouds, or seek clearance to fly on instruments, after that, a Federal Aviation Administration official said.

But there were no further communications until witnesses called 911 at 9:47 a.m. and reported the sound of whirring blades, broken fiberglass and a massive fire on a hillside.

The fog on Sunday morning near the scene of the crash was “as thick as swimming in a pool of milk,” said Scott Daehlin, 61. He was retrieving sound equipment for a Sunday service at his church in Calabasas when the sound of a helicopter coming low and loud through the thick marine layer caused him to look up.

“I couldn’t see anything, not even a silhouette,” he said Monday morning as he looked across the street where the steep mountainside rose. The grassy slope was littered in wreckage. “My first thought was, ‘What in the world is a helicopter doing out here in this fog?’”

For about 20 seconds, he said, he followed the sound of the helicopter as it swept over the church parking lot and south toward the crest of the Santa Monica Mountains. It sounded even and normal, but, he said, “it sounded too low.”

“It sounded almost like the pilot was hovering, trying to find his way,” he said. As the son of a pilot, he added, “I had a sinking feeling in my stomach, and I was saying, ‘Get some altitude.’”

Just then, the helicopter went down. He heard a loud thump and the crack of what sounded like fiberglass, and all sound from the engines stopped."

[old salt]

Kobe crash site elevation = 1080 ft msl

https://www.google.com/maps/place/34%C2 ... d-118.6923

[njbill]

A few (dumb) questions from someone who knows essentially nothing about flying helicopters. Do you guys think the pilot was trying to land? Is that something a pilot would try to do as a last resort if he found himself in an entirely untenable situation?

[Kismet]

I have an opinion from my limited experiences with private aviation but I'll defer to Old Salt as he actually is a helicopter pilot, I believe.

[old salt]

A few (dumb) questions from someone who knows essentially nothing about flying helicopters. Do you guys think the pilot was trying to land? Is that something a pilot would try to do as a last resort if he found himself in an entirely untenable situation?

Still don't know bill -- the GPS track looks like a buttonhook course reversal at the very end, but it also shows a rapid ascent 2300 ft, which would have allowed him to clear the terrain if he was still in controlled flight. He may have departed controlled flight at some point. I not sure of the accuracy of GPS track & altitude being reported.

He may have seen the onrushing terrain, did a panic climb, lost control, departed controlled flight & possibly overstressed the tail boom or dynamic components.

The NTSB will piece together the debris, evaluate the ATC tape & radar data, the GPS track, the GPS app on his I-phone, & anything else they can pull together.

The pilot should have been very familiar with that terrain. He worked at a flight school at Van Nuys airport for 9 years, got his flight training there & instructed there. He was very much at ease coordinating with Burbank & Van Nuys towers & transiting their airspace.
He got back on course & tracked overhead Hwy 101 for a good stretch, He made it through some of the mountain pass.

He was not trying to land at that site. The debris pattern indicates high speed impact with terrain.

The great thing about helos. You can land them anywhere.
In one 3 year tour of duty in a squadron, I did 3 off airport landings in farmers fields.
2 for maint emergs, 1 for weather (icing & unforecast snow squall).
Flew 'em all out the next day, after enjoying local hospitality.
Which makes we wonder why he didn't land at Van Nuys when he passed close aboard the airport.
He had the airport in sight & was talking to the tower.

These videos are helpful. The pilot speak can be difficult to understand, but it's revealing.
Linked rather than embedded them, so you can go full screen to interpret.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSHpbGhy3Ko
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_cont ... =emb_title

Had he popped up sooner & not lost control, SoCal approach could have picked him up.
They apparently got a "hand off" from Van Nuys tower & were expecting him.

[njbill]

Thanks.