American Educational System

[jhu72]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

They are adding in attached organizations / businesses which have nothing to do with teaching. Pure research entities. Lot of folks counting money!

[old salt]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

There you go again, speaking on my behalf.
I'm telling you nothing. I posted no opinion.
I'm no expert in this. I'm a government trade school grad.

Does University of Phoenix offer an online BA w/ a major in Philosophy?

Maybe TLD will tell us if DoD gets a discount or pays sticker price for ROTC scholarship students.

JHU72 can tell us how many of those 7.5 administrators are Fed grant writers.

[jhu72]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

There you go again, speaking on my behalf.
I'm telling you nothing. I posted no opinion.
I'm no expert in this. I'm a government trade school grad.

Does University of Phoenix offer an online BA w/ a major in Philosophy?

Maybe TLD will tell us if DoD gets a discount or pays sticker price for ROTC scholarship students.

JHU72 can tell us how many of those 7.5 administrators are Fed grant writers.

... 1 maybe 2 on the educational side of the house are grant administrators. No Fed grant writers. Professors and grad students do the grant writing. Sorry.

... by the way, your trade school functions the same way. Professors write their own grant proposals. There is a small number of grant administrators, probably one in Navy's case. A smart secretary can handle small grants. A single grant is not a full time job unless it is 10's of million $ or more.

[Typical Lax Dad]

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/bus ... rgers-2023

Nonprofit colleges and universities that announced closures this year largely fit the same profile: mostly small, private, tuition-dependent institutions with meager endowments that have seen enrollment slipping for years and have been unable to recover from those sustained losses.

Over the course of 2023, 14 nonprofit four-year colleges announced closures. (A handful of others announced mergers or acquisitions.) A 15th institution, the King’s College, did not announce it was closing but has essentially shut down, a move apparently necessitated by financial issues coupled with a loss of accreditation.

Among the 15 institutions that announced closures, 10 were religiously affiliated. Four were Catholic, which is the only denomination represented multiple times in this year’s round of closures. Three of the colleges were located in New York; Wisconsin was the only other state where more than one college announced a closure.

Presentation College

The first institution to announce a closure this year was the private Catholic institution in rural South Dakota, which in January said it would shut down after the summer 2023 term, bringing an end to the mission that began with its founding in 1951. Presentation, like many others represented here, struggled with enrollment in recent years.

The college enrolled 577 students in fall 2021, according to the recent available federal data. The college never cracked 1,000 students in any given year over the past two decades; its highest enrollment during that period appears to have been 821 students in fall 2016.

Finlandia University

Citing enrollment issues that officials attributed to demographic changes and a “steep decrease in interest in going to college,” Finlandia announced in March that it would not enroll students in fall 2023 and had entered into teach-out programs with other colleges as it prepared to close. The private Lutheran college in Michigan was founded by Finnish immigrants in 1896.

According to federal data, Finlandia enrolled 479 students in fall 2022, the last admissions cycle before it announced it would no longer accept students. That number had been in flux over the years, though enrollment has hovered around 500 students for most of the last two decades.

Iowa Wesleyan University

The private, 181-year-old United Methodist institution named inflation, enrollment challenges and decreased fundraising as the key factors driving the announcement of its closure in March. University officials also suggested that Governor Kim Reynolds’s decision to deny their request for $12 million of the state’s federal coronavirus relief funds played a part, a notion that was quickly disputed by Reynolds and local observers of higher education.

Despite what officials said, Iowa Wesleyan’s enrollment had been trending up. In fall 2022, the last regular recruiting cycle before the closure announcement, the university enrolled 820 students, up from 622 in fall 2019, the last semester before the coronavirus pandemic hit the U.S. Federal data show Iowa Wesleyan was experiencing one of its strongest enrollment years in the last two decades.

But revenue problems persisted, prompting the institution to formally cease operations in May.

Medaille University

Following the collapse of merger talks with nearby Trocaire College, Medaille announced in May that it would close due to a mix of budget issues and enrollment challenges. That closure, which faculty members told local news was driven largely by poor financial management, was almost immediate; the university officially shut down in late August.

Like many institutions that announced a closure or merger this year, Medaille had struggled to attract students. Enrollment at the private college in Buffalo, N.Y., slipped from nearly 2,400 students in fall 2013 to 1,814 in fall 2021, according to the latest federal data.

Cardinal Stritch University

President Dan Scholz cited “fiscal realities, downward enrollment trends, the [coronavirus] pandemic” and “mounting operational and facility challenges” as the factors that drove Cardinal Stritch University to announce its closure in April. The small Roman Catholic college in Wisconsin formally ended operations the next month, following its May commencement.

Plunging enrollment was key to its downfall; Cardinal Stritch lost more than 3,000 students in less than a decade, with the head count falling from 4,407 in fall 2013 to 1,365 in fall 2021, according to federal data.

Cabrini University

Despite a public appeal for partners that began in 2022, Cabrini announced in June that it would shut down, citing financial issues brought on by dwindling enrollment, the COVID-19 pandemic and other factors. Cabrini officials noted in the closure announcement that nearby Villanova University, a fellow Roman Catholic institution, was working on a deal to acquire its campus, which might allow the Cabrini name to live on in some way at Villanova.

At the time of the closure announcement, officials told Inside Higher Ed that enrollment stood at about 1,500 in fall 2022. But federal data show that number had been trending downward for years; Cabrini enrolled more than 2,400 students in fall 2013. Unable to sustain the loss of almost 1,000 students in less than a decade, the university is set to officially shut down in May 2024.

[jhu72]

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/bus ... rgers-2023

Nonprofit colleges and universities that announced closures this year largely fit the same profile: mostly small, private, tuition-dependent institutions with meager endowments that have seen enrollment slipping for years and have been unable to recover from those sustained losses.

Over the course of 2023, 14 nonprofit four-year colleges announced closures. (A handful of others announced mergers or acquisitions.) A 15th institution, the King’s College, did not announce it was closing but has essentially shut down, a move apparently necessitated by financial issues coupled with a loss of accreditation.

Among the 15 institutions that announced closures, 10 were religiously affiliated. Four were Catholic, which is the only denomination represented multiple times in this year’s round of closures. Three of the colleges were located in New York; Wisconsin was the only other state where more than one college announced a closure.

Presentation College

The first institution to announce a closure this year was the private Catholic institution in rural South Dakota, which in January said it would shut down after the summer 2023 term, bringing an end to the mission that began with its founding in 1951. Presentation, like many others represented here, struggled with enrollment in recent years.

The college enrolled 577 students in fall 2021, according to the recent available federal data. The college never cracked 1,000 students in any given year over the past two decades; its highest enrollment during that period appears to have been 821 students in fall 2016.

Finlandia University

Citing enrollment issues that officials attributed to demographic changes and a “steep decrease in interest in going to college,” Finlandia announced in March that it would not enroll students in fall 2023 and had entered into teach-out programs with other colleges as it prepared to close. The private Lutheran college in Michigan was founded by Finnish immigrants in 1896.

According to federal data, Finlandia enrolled 479 students in fall 2022, the last admissions cycle before it announced it would no longer accept students. That number had been in flux over the years, though enrollment has hovered around 500 students for most of the last two decades.

Iowa Wesleyan University

The private, 181-year-old United Methodist institution named inflation, enrollment challenges and decreased fundraising as the key factors driving the announcement of its closure in March. University officials also suggested that Governor Kim Reynolds’s decision to deny their request for $12 million of the state’s federal coronavirus relief funds played a part, a notion that was quickly disputed by Reynolds and local observers of higher education.

Despite what officials said, Iowa Wesleyan’s enrollment had been trending up. In fall 2022, the last regular recruiting cycle before the closure announcement, the university enrolled 820 students, up from 622 in fall 2019, the last semester before the coronavirus pandemic hit the U.S. Federal data show Iowa Wesleyan was experiencing one of its strongest enrollment years in the last two decades.

But revenue problems persisted, prompting the institution to formally cease operations in May.

Medaille University

Following the collapse of merger talks with nearby Trocaire College, Medaille announced in May that it would close due to a mix of budget issues and enrollment challenges. That closure, which faculty members told local news was driven largely by poor financial management, was almost immediate; the university officially shut down in late August.

Like many institutions that announced a closure or merger this year, Medaille had struggled to attract students. Enrollment at the private college in Buffalo, N.Y., slipped from nearly 2,400 students in fall 2013 to 1,814 in fall 2021, according to the latest federal data.

Cardinal Stritch University

President Dan Scholz cited “fiscal realities, downward enrollment trends, the [coronavirus] pandemic” and “mounting operational and facility challenges” as the factors that drove Cardinal Stritch University to announce its closure in April. The small Roman Catholic college in Wisconsin formally ended operations the next month, following its May commencement.

Plunging enrollment was key to its downfall; Cardinal Stritch lost more than 3,000 students in less than a decade, with the head count falling from 4,407 in fall 2013 to 1,365 in fall 2021, according to federal data.

Cabrini University

Despite a public appeal for partners that began in 2022, Cabrini announced in June that it would shut down, citing financial issues brought on by dwindling enrollment, the COVID-19 pandemic and other factors. Cabrini officials noted in the closure announcement that nearby Villanova University, a fellow Roman Catholic institution, was working on a deal to acquire its campus, which might allow the Cabrini name to live on in some way at Villanova.

At the time of the closure announcement, officials told Inside Higher Ed that enrollment stood at about 1,500 in fall 2022. But federal data show that number had been trending downward for years; Cabrini enrolled more than 2,400 students in fall 2013. Unable to sustain the loss of almost 1,000 students in less than a decade, the university is set to officially shut down in May 2024.

... yes this is the reason -- weeding the market place. The weak die or get eaten. Got nothing to do with any of the agenda driven reasons in National Review.

[a fan]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

There you go again, speaking on my behalf.
I'm telling you nothing. I posted no opinion

Get lost. We're all done playing your silly petty game. You posted. You wrote it out. You BOLDED the part that (duh) you clearly want to emphasize...and AGREE WITH.

I respond to this obvious stupidity----and the bold part YOU BOLDED------and then you clutch your pearls, and play dumb.

Buffalo bagels.

You're a trade grad? Guess what? So am I. Now how did a piddly distller figure out that this is a stupid political slant in ten seconds, yet you're on here, playing dumb, acting like gee whiz, OS has no idea that Hopkins is the biggest research organization on the planet that gets BILLIONS from the freaking DoD, and THAT is why they have such an ENORMOUS staff that has NOTHING to do with undergrad enrollment, or, even better...."the libs".

Gaslighting. You're telling me, as a military guy...that don't know about this DoD stuff at Hopkins...yet I do?

Right. Sure you don't.

[old salt]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

There you go again, speaking on my behalf.
I'm telling you nothing. I posted no opinion

Get lost. We're all done playing your silly petty game. You posted. You wrote it out. You BOLDED the part that (duh) you clearly want to emphasize...and AGREE WITH.

I respond to this obvious stupidity----and the bold part YOU BOLDED------and then you clutch your pearls, and play dumb.

Buffalo bagels.

You're a trade grad? Guess what? So am I. Now how did a piddly distller figure out that this is a stupid political slant in ten seconds, yet you're on here, playing dumb, acting like gee whiz, OS has no idea that Hopkins is the biggest research organization on the planet that gets BILLIONS from the freaking DoD, and THAT is why they have such an ENORMOUS staff that has NOTHING to do with undergrad enrollment, or, even better...."the libs".

Gaslighting. You're telling me, as a military guy...that don't know about this DoD stuff at Hopkins...yet I do?

Right. Sure you don't.

Where did you matriculate before you went to trade school ? for how long ? What did you study as an undetgrad ? Thermodynamics, Fluid dynamics, Strength of material, vectors, Calc I, II, & III. DiffiQ's, Chem, Physics, Organic Chem ?
Was your undergrad degree necessary for learning your trade ?

Are you sure those 7.5 JHU administrators work at APL or SAIS ?

[jhu72]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

There you go again, speaking on my behalf.
I'm telling you nothing. I posted no opinion

Get lost. We're all done playing your silly petty game. You posted. You wrote it out. You BOLDED the part that (duh) you clearly want to emphasize...and AGREE WITH.

I respond to this obvious stupidity----and the bold part YOU BOLDED------and then you clutch your pearls, and play dumb.

Buffalo bagels.

You're a trade grad? Guess what? So am I. Now how did a piddly distller figure out that this is a stupid political slant in ten seconds, yet you're on here, playing dumb, acting like gee whiz, OS has no idea that Hopkins is the biggest research organization on the planet that gets BILLIONS from the freaking DoD, and THAT is why they have such an ENORMOUS staff that has NOTHING to do with undergrad enrollment, or, even better...."the libs".

Gaslighting. You're telling me, as a military guy...that don't know about this DoD stuff at Hopkins...yet I do?

Right. Sure you don't.

Where did you matriculate before you went to trade school ? for how long ? What did you study as an undetgrad ? Thermodynamics, Fluid dynamics, Strength of material, vectors, Calc I, II, & III. DiffiQ's, Chem, Physics, Organic Chem ?
Was your undergrad degree necessary for learning your trade ?

Are you sure those 7.5 JHU administrators work at APL or SAIS ?

... none of them work at SAIS --- never mentioned SAIS.

[old salt]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

There you go again, speaking on my behalf.
I'm telling you nothing. I posted no opinion

Get lost. We're all done playing your silly petty game. You posted. You wrote it out. You BOLDED the part that (duh) you clearly want to emphasize...and AGREE WITH.

I respond to this obvious stupidity----and the bold part YOU BOLDED------and then you clutch your pearls, and play dumb.

Buffalo bagels.

You're a trade grad? Guess what? So am I. Now how did a piddly distller figure out that this is a stupid political slant in ten seconds, yet you're on here, playing dumb, acting like gee whiz, OS has no idea that Hopkins is the biggest research organization on the planet that gets BILLIONS from the freaking DoD, and THAT is why they have such an ENORMOUS staff that has NOTHING to do with undergrad enrollment, or, even better...."the libs".

Gaslighting. You're telling me, as a military guy...that don't know about this DoD stuff at Hopkins...yet I do?

Right. Sure you don't.

Where did you matriculate before you went to trade school ? for how long ? What did you study as an undetgrad ? Thermodynamics, Fluid dynamics, Strength of material, vectors, Calc I, II, & III. DiffiQ's, Chem, Physics, Organic Chem ?
Was your undergrad degree necessary for learning your trade ?

Are you sure those 7.5 JHU administrators work at APL or SAIS ?

... none of them work at SAIS --- never mentioned SAIS.

i was asking afan. Do you think the 7.5 administrators/professor referenced in the article include staff working on DoD projects at APL (in Laurel) ? It's not an academic division.

[jhu72]

https://www.nationalreview.com/2024/04/ ... term=first

Why Colleges Are Dying

by MICHAEL BRENDAN DOUGHERTY, April 3, 2024

Colleges are the closest thing we have to progressive societies fully realized, and they increasingly exist as ends unto themselves. The decline of conservative representation among the professoriate is a decades-long phenomenon and has reached its terminus. Like medieval monasteries, progressive universities take it upon themselves to create an image of the perfect society and bring through themselves the blessings and moral transformation that will redeem the rest of the world. Many of them now invest more resources in managing student life than in educating young people and forming them to take up leadership roles in society, which was their original purpose. Johns Hopkins has 7.5 administrators for every professor. Yale has 5,000 managerial and professional staff even though it enrolled only 4,703 undergraduate students in a recent academic year. Every potential problem a student may have is met by not only a counselor but an entire bureaucracy. It’s as if the progressive blob wishes students to expect enormous and lavish bureaucracies to manage social interaction as a way of life, so that, when students leave campus, they recreate such authorities through human-resources departments and DEI offices in the corporate world, in the civic space, or in noncollege education.

So you're telling us that you and this Dougherty guy just can't figure out why there's so many people in Administration at Hopkins or Yale?

And the only thing you two can come up with is, to the shock of no one: (drumroll) "it's the libs"

There you go again, speaking on my behalf.
I'm telling you nothing. I posted no opinion

Get lost. We're all done playing your silly petty game. You posted. You wrote it out. You BOLDED the part that (duh) you clearly want to emphasize...and AGREE WITH.

I respond to this obvious stupidity----and the bold part YOU BOLDED------and then you clutch your pearls, and play dumb.

Buffalo bagels.

You're a trade grad? Guess what? So am I. Now how did a piddly distller figure out that this is a stupid political slant in ten seconds, yet you're on here, playing dumb, acting like gee whiz, OS has no idea that Hopkins is the biggest research organization on the planet that gets BILLIONS from the freaking DoD, and THAT is why they have such an ENORMOUS staff that has NOTHING to do with undergrad enrollment, or, even better...."the libs".

Gaslighting. You're telling me, as a military guy...that don't know about this DoD stuff at Hopkins...yet I do?

Right. Sure you don't.

Where did you matriculate before you went to trade school ? for how long ? What did you study as an undetgrad ? Thermodynamics, Fluid dynamics, Strength of material, vectors, Calc I, II, & III. DiffiQ's, Chem, Physics, Organic Chem ?
Was your undergrad degree necessary for learning your trade ?

Are you sure those 7.5 JHU administrators work at APL or SAIS ?

... none of them work at SAIS --- never mentioned SAIS.

i was asking afan. Do you think the 7.5 administrators/professor referenced in the article include staff working on DoD projects at APL (in Laurel) ? It's not an academic division.

... such staff should not be included in any count for the Homewood Campus, the teaching institution, nor should STSci, nor the Hospital. Corporate structure for the University includes Homewood campus, APL and STSci I believe. Does not include Hospital. This could lead someone who doesn't understand the University to include all of this as teaching facility if they only look at topline numbers for the University.

The number 7.5 per is ridiculous and not true if only the teaching facility of the University is considered.

[Seacoaster(1)]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/educatio ... ue-divide/

"American states passed a blizzard of education laws and policies over the past six years that aim to reshape how K-12 schools and colleges teach and present issues of race, sex and gender to the majority of the nation’s students — with instruction differing sharply by states’ political leanings, according to a Washington Post analysis.

Three-fourths of the nation’s school-aged students are now educated under state-level measures that either require more teaching on issues like race, racism, history, sex and gender, or which sharply limit or fully forbid such lessons, according to a sweeping Post review of thousands of state laws, gubernatorial directives and state school board policies. The restrictive laws alone affect almost half of all Americans aged 5 to 19.

Since 2017, 38 states have adopted 114 such laws, rules or orders, The Post found. The majority of policies are restrictive in nature: 66 percent circumscribe or ban lessons and discussions on some of society’s most sensitive topics, while 34 percent require or expand them. In one example, a 2023 Kentucky law forbids lessons on human sexuality before fifth grade and outlaws all instruction “exploring gender identity.” On the other hand, a 2021 Rhode Island law requires that all students learn “African Heritage and History” before high school graduation.

The Post included in its analysis only measures that could directly affect what students learn. Thus, 100 of the laws in The Post’s database apply only to K-12 campuses, where states have much greater power to shape curriculums. At public institutions of higher education — where courts have held that the First Amendment protects professors’ right to teach what they want — the laws instead target programs like student or faculty trainings or welcome sessions.

The divide is sharply partisan. The vast majority of restrictive laws and policies, close to 9o percent, were enacted in states that voted for Donald Trump in the 2020 presidential election, The Post found. Meanwhile, almost 80 percent of expansive laws and policies were enacted in states that voted for Joe Biden in 2020.

The explosion of laws regulating school curriculums is unprecedented in U.S. history for its volume and scope, said Jonathan Zimmerman, a University of Pennsylvania professor who studies education history and policy. Controversy and debate over classroom lessons is nothing new, Zimmermann said, but states have never before stepped in so aggressively to set rules for local schools. School districts have traditionally had wide latitude to shape their lessons.

He said it remains an open question whether all laws will translate to curriculum changes, predicting some schools and teachers may refuse to alter their pedagogy. Still, a nationally representative study from the Rand Corp. released this year found that 65 percent of K-12 teachers report they are limiting instruction on “political and social issues.”

“What the laws show is that we have extremely significant differences over how we imagine America,” Zimmerman said. “State legislatures have now used the power of law to try to inscribe one view, and to prevent another. And so we’re deeply divided in America.”

In practice, these divisions mean that what a child learns about, say, the role slavery played in the nation’s founding — or the possibility of a person identifying as nonbinary — may come to depend on whether they live in a red or blue state.

Legislators advancing restrictive education laws argue they are offering a corrective to what they call a recent left-wing takeover of education. They contend that, in the past decade or so, teachers and professors alike began forcing students to adopt liberal viewpoints on topics ranging from police brutality to whether gender is a binary or a spectrum.

Tennessee state Rep. John Ragan (R), who sponsored or co-sponsored several laws in his state that limit or ban instruction and trainings dealing with race, bias, sexual orientation and gender identity on both K-12 and college campuses, said the legislation he helped pass does not restrict education.

“It is restricting indoctrination,” Ragan said. Under his state’s laws, he said, “the information presented is factually accurate and is in fact something worth knowing.”

Those advancing expansive legislation, by contrast, argue they are fostering conditions in which students from all backgrounds will see themselves reflected in lessons. This will make it easier for every student to learn and be successful, while teaching peers to be tolerant of one another’s differences, said Washington state Sen. Marko Liias (D).

Liias was the architect of a law his state passed last month that requires schools to adopt “inclusive curricula” featuring the histories, contributions and perspectives of the “historically marginalized,” including “people from various racial, ethnic, and religious backgrounds, people with differing learning needs, people with disabilities [and] LGBTQ people.” He was inspired to propose the bill after hearing from educators who wanted to create more welcoming classrooms and by memories of his own experiences as a queer student in the 1980s and 1990s, when, he said, there were no LGBTQ role models taught or accepted in schools.

“When schools are inclusive broadly of all the identities brought to the classroom, then everybody thrives and does better,” Liias said.

To construct its database of education laws, The Post analyzed more than 2,200 bills, policies, gubernatorial directives and state school board rules introduced since 2017. The Post identified regulations for review by examining state legislative databases, education law trackers maintained by national bipartisan nonprofits and the websites of various advocacy groups that monitor curriculum legislation.

How curriculum policies took hold

Some blue states began enacting expansive education laws in the late 2010s. From 2017 to 2020, 10 states passed legislation or rules that required schools to start teaching about the history of underrepresented groups such as Black Americans, Pacific Islanders or LGBTQ Americans, The Post found.

State and school leaders were drawing on more than a dozen studies published from the 1990s to 2017 that found student performance, attendance and graduate rates rise when children see people like them included in curriculum, said Jennifer Berkshire, a Yale lecturer on education studies.

“They were thinking, ‘You know, our curriculums aren’t representative enough,’” Berkshire said. “The argument was, if we’re going to realize the goal of full rights and civil participation for kids, we need to do things differently.”

Fourteen of these laws, or 36 percent, came in a rush in 2021, the year after the police killing of George Floyd sparked massive demonstrations and a national reckoning over racism. At the time, activists, teachers, parents and high school students across America were urging schools teach more Black history and feature more Black authors.

Of the expansive laws and policies The Post analyzed, the majority — 69 percent — require or expand education on race or racial issues, especially on Black history and ethnic studies. About a quarter add or enhance education on both LGBTQ and racial issues. Just 8 percent focus solely on LGBTQ lives and topics.

But the onslaught of restrictive legislation in red states began in 2021, too, also inspired in many cases by parent concerns over curriculums.

Anxiety first stirred due to coronavirus pandemic-era school shutdowns as some mothers and fathers — granted an unprecedented glimpse into lessons during the era of school-by-laptop — found they did not like or trust what their children were learning.

Soon, some parents were complaining that lessons were biased toward left-leaning views and too focused on what they saw as irrelevant discussions of race, gender and sexuality — laments taken up by conservative pundits and politicians. National groups like Moms for Liberty formed to call out and combat left-leaning teaching in public schools.

Their fears became legislation with speed: Mostly red states passed 26 restrictive education laws and policies in 2021; 19 such laws or policies the next year and 25 more the year after that.

“If you’ve got parents upset at what they’re seeing, they’re going to go to school board meetings and take it up with their legislators,” said Robert Pondiscio, a senior fellow studying education at the conservative American Enterprise Institute. “And legislators will do what they do: pass laws.”

How the restrictions and expansions work

The plurality of restrictive laws, 47 percent, target both education on race and sex. About a third solely affect education on gender identity and sexuality, while 21 percent solely affect education on race.

Almost 40 percent of these laws work by granting parents greater control of the curriculum — stipulating that they must be able to review, object to or remove lesson material, as well as opt out of instruction. Schools have long permitted parents to weigh in on education, often informally; but under many of the new laws, parental input has more weight and is mandatory.

Another almost 40 percent of the laws forbid schools from teaching a long list of often-vague concepts related to race, sex or gender.

These outlawed concepts usually include the notion that certain merits, values, beliefs, status or privileges are tied to race or sex; or the theory that students should feel ashamed or guilty due to their race, sex or racial past. One such law, passed in Georgia in 2022, forbids teaching that “an individual, solely by virtue of his or her race, bears individual responsibility for actions committed in the past by other individuals of the same race.”

At the college level, among the measures passed in recent years is a 2021 Oklahoma law that prohibits institutions of higher education from holding “mandatory gender or sexual diversity training or counseling,” as well as any “orientation or requirement that presents any form of race or sex stereotyping.”

By contrast, a 2023 California measure says state community college faculty must employ “teaching, learning and professional practices” that reflect “anti-racist principles.”

Some experts predicted the politically divergent instruction will lead to a more divided society.

“When children are being taught very different stories of what America is, that will lead to adults who have a harder time talking to each other,” said Rachel Rosenberg, a Hartwick College assistant professor of education.

But Pondiscio said there is always tension in American society between the public interest in education and parents’ interest in determining the values transmitted to their children. The conflict veers from acute to chronic, he said, and currently it’s in an acute phase. “But I don’t find it inappropriate. I think it is a natural part of democratic governance and oversight,” Pondiscio said.

He added, “One man’s ‘chilling effect’ is another man’s appropriate circumspections.”

[youthathletics]

...in other news, Portland Schools 'apparently' want to play the role of God, Judge and Jury and not notify family when a 9 year old is raped in school.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -girl.html

The father of one of the boys reported the incident and his son and the other boy were suspended for just one day, the lawsuit said.

Prior to their suspension, instead of getting the police involved in the alleged sexual assault, 'PPS staff undertook their own internal investigation,' the lawsuit said.

Staff also interviewed the girl without telling her parents, family or any legal representatives, according to the suit.

According to court documents, six days after the alleged assault, the victim's father took her to Randall Children's Hospital for an evaluation.

[MDlaxfan76]

...in other news, Portland Schools 'apparently' want to play the role of God, Judge and Jury and not notify family when a 9 year old is raped in school.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -girl.html

The father of one of the boys reported the incident and his son and the other boy were suspended for just one day, the lawsuit said.

Prior to their suspension, instead of getting the police involved in the alleged sexual assault, 'PPS staff undertook their own internal investigation,' the lawsuit said.

Staff also interviewed the girl without telling her parents, family or any legal representatives, according to the suit.

According to court documents, six days after the alleged assault, the victim's father took her to Randall Children's Hospital for an evaluation.

Assuming true, quite outrageous to not immediately report to the family of the girl that such was alleged to have happened once they knew of the allegation. If it did, she needed support immediately, including medical and mental healthcare.

That said, I can understand why a school staff might at least ask the girl about it, given she wasn't the one who reported that an incident had occurred...but if she in any way confirmed something serious had happened, then bring police and parents in immediately. And whatever the level of incident, parents should be told immediately.

These are 9 year olds, maybe 10?

I can understand teachers and staff having a hard time imagining this occurring and wanting to be more confident before escalating through the roof with police etc.

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in this reporting and lawsuit...when exactly did the school get told by the father of the boy? Same day as event? Next day? What did he actually report? That 'something' had happened out of bounds or that there was forced penetration? When did the school let the family of the girl know? The day they learned, a day later?...did the family wait to get medical help or go right away?

Why did the school only suspend for a day? Did they not believe the event was super serious? Bullying would be serious, sexual contact way out of bounds, but forced penetration, super serious. Must not have been convinced that the girl was either not complicit or that the event had gone so far...assuming it did. Sounds like they had doubts or that wasn't what was actually reported.

Big lawsuit $, so are the allegations about the school's behavior slanted to make them sound really bad...for $ ? Or is the reality more complex?

Only 'good guy' in all this so far sounds like the boy's father who reported that at least something out of bounds had happened.

[PizzaSnake]

...in other news, Portland Schools 'apparently' want to play the role of God, Judge and Jury and not notify family when a 9 year old is raped in school.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -girl.html

The father of one of the boys reported the incident and his son and the other boy were suspended for just one day, the lawsuit said.

Prior to their suspension, instead of getting the police involved in the alleged sexual assault, 'PPS staff undertook their own internal investigation,' the lawsuit said.

Staff also interviewed the girl without telling her parents, family or any legal representatives, according to the suit.

According to court documents, six days after the alleged assault, the victim's father took her to Randall Children's Hospital for an evaluation.

Assuming true, quite outrageous to not immediately report to the family of the girl that such was alleged to have happened once they knew of the allegation. If it did, she needed support immediately, including medical and mental healthcare.

That said, I can understand why a school staff might at least ask the girl about it, given she wasn't the one who reported that an incident had occurred...but if she in any way confirmed something serious had happened, then bring police and parents in immediately. And whatever the level of incident, parents should be told immediately.

These are 9 year olds, maybe 10?

I can understand teachers and staff having a hard time imagining this occurring and wanting to be more confident before escalating through the roof with police etc.

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in this reporting and lawsuit...when exactly did the school get told by the father of the boy? Same day as event? Next day? What did he actually report? That 'something' had happened out of bounds or that there was forced penetration? When did the school let the family of the girl know? The day they learned, a day later?...did the family wait to get medical help or go right away?

Why did the school only suspend for a day? Did they not believe the event was super serious? Bullying would be serious, sexual contact way out of bounds, but forced penetration, super serious. Must not have been convinced that the girl was either not complicit or that the event had gone so far...assuming it did. Sounds like they had doubts or that wasn't what was actually reported.

Big lawsuit $, so are the allegations about the school's behavior slanted to make them sound really bad...for $ ? Or is the reality more complex?

Only 'good guy' in all this so far sounds like the boy's father who reported that at least something out of bounds had happened.

My wife worked with at risk populations. You might be amazed at what transpires (well, at least what is reported). The most astounding was the line between the therapist/counselor and law enforcement. This was 10 or so years ago, and from what I hear/observe, the problem has gotten worse.

[youthathletics]

...in other news, Portland Schools 'apparently' want to play the role of God, Judge and Jury and not notify family when a 9 year old is raped in school.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -girl.html

The father of one of the boys reported the incident and his son and the other boy were suspended for just one day, the lawsuit said.

Prior to their suspension, instead of getting the police involved in the alleged sexual assault, 'PPS staff undertook their own internal investigation,' the lawsuit said.

Staff also interviewed the girl without telling her parents, family or any legal representatives, according to the suit.

According to court documents, six days after the alleged assault, the victim's father took her to Randall Children's Hospital for an evaluation.

Assuming true, quite outrageous to not immediately report to the family of the girl that such was alleged to have happened once they knew of the allegation. If it did, she needed support immediately, including medical and mental healthcare.

That said, I can understand why a school staff might at least ask the girl about it, given she wasn't the one who reported that an incident had occurred...but if she in any way confirmed something serious had happened, then bring police and parents in immediately. And whatever the level of incident, parents should be told immediately.

These are 9 year olds, maybe 10?

I can understand teachers and staff having a hard time imagining this occurring and wanting to be more confident before escalating through the roof with police etc.

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in this reporting and lawsuit...when exactly did the school get told by the father of the boy? Same day as event? Next day? What did he actually report? That 'something' had happened out of bounds or that there was forced penetration? When did the school let the family of the girl know? The day they learned, a day later?...did the family wait to get medical help or go right away?

Why did the school only suspend for a day? Did they not believe the event was super serious? Bullying would be serious, sexual contact way out of bounds, but forced penetration, super serious. Must not have been convinced that the girl was either not complicit or that the event had gone so far...assuming it did. Sounds like they had doubts or that wasn't what was actually reported.

Big lawsuit $, so are the allegations about the school's behavior slanted to make them sound really bad...for $ ? Or is the reality more complex?

Only 'good guy' in all this so far sounds like the boy's father who reported that at least something out of bounds had happened.

My wife worked with at risk populations. You might be amazed at what transpires (well, at least what is reported). The most astounding was the line between the therapist/counselor and law enforcement. This was 10 or so years ago, and from what I hear/observe, the problem has gotten worse.

My wife is still immersed in it...you are correct, it is even more miserable now. it's the very reason why so many have been up and arms about things going on in public schools, while many want to minimize it as just crazy maga types.

To MD's point.....you bolded and I added red. At no point, should school staff be trying to make these judgement calls, especially not notifying parents. My wife MUST notify parents if a child even gets a scrape on the playground or even a blemish.

[Seacoaster(1)]

Think we don't need to teach kids about the Holocaust? Nazis? Civics? Here's Maine State Representative -- sorry GOP Representative -- Laurel Libby asking some questions in the State House:

https://twitter.com/aintscarylarry/stat ... 0983952502

[MDlaxfan76]

...in other news, Portland Schools 'apparently' want to play the role of God, Judge and Jury and not notify family when a 9 year old is raped in school.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -girl.html

The father of one of the boys reported the incident and his son and the other boy were suspended for just one day, the lawsuit said.

Prior to their suspension, instead of getting the police involved in the alleged sexual assault, 'PPS staff undertook their own internal investigation,' the lawsuit said.

Staff also interviewed the girl without telling her parents, family or any legal representatives, according to the suit.

According to court documents, six days after the alleged assault, the victim's father took her to Randall Children's Hospital for an evaluation.

Assuming true, quite outrageous to not immediately report to the family of the girl that such was alleged to have happened once they knew of the allegation. If it did, she needed support immediately, including medical and mental healthcare.

That said, I can understand why a school staff might at least ask the girl about it, given she wasn't the one who reported that an incident had occurred...but if she in any way confirmed something serious had happened, then bring police and parents in immediately. And whatever the level of incident, parents should be told immediately.

These are 9 year olds, maybe 10?

I can understand teachers and staff having a hard time imagining this occurring and wanting to be more confident before escalating through the roof with police etc.

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in this reporting and lawsuit...when exactly did the school get told by the father of the boy? Same day as event? Next day? What did he actually report? That 'something' had happened out of bounds or that there was forced penetration? When did the school let the family of the girl know? The day they learned, a day later?...did the family wait to get medical help or go right away?

Why did the school only suspend for a day? Did they not believe the event was super serious? Bullying would be serious, sexual contact way out of bounds, but forced penetration, super serious. Must not have been convinced that the girl was either not complicit or that the event had gone so far...assuming it did. Sounds like they had doubts or that wasn't what was actually reported.

Big lawsuit $, so are the allegations about the school's behavior slanted to make them sound really bad...for $ ? Or is the reality more complex?

Only 'good guy' in all this so far sounds like the boy's father who reported that at least something out of bounds had happened.

My wife worked with at risk populations. You might be amazed at what transpires (well, at least what is reported). The most astounding was the line between the therapist/counselor and law enforcement. This was 10 or so years ago, and from what I hear/observe, the problem has gotten worse.

My wife is still immersed in it...you are correct, it is even more miserable now. it's the very reason why so many have been up and arms about things going on in public schools, while many want to minimize it as just crazy maga types.

To MD's point.....you bolded and I added red. At no point, should school staff be trying to make these judgement calls, especially not notifying parents. My wife MUST notify parents if a child even gets a scrape on the playground or even a blemish.

mmmm, seems like there's a YUGE difference between making sure parents are aware of any actual dangers to their kids, bullying, assaults, etc and protecting kids from their or other parents' abuse and biases.

I don't think anyone on here would call it MAGA to want parents to get the first call if their kid has been assaulted, though the notion that the school teachers and counselors shouldn't be stepping in to help is ridiculous too. Maybe it's now MAGA to tell teachers and counselors to butt out, don't help the kids?

Where most of us who aren't MAGA object to MAGA "parent's rights" is the "right" of one set of parents to tell teachers and principals what can and can't be taught to others parents' children. Regardless of facts, don't teach kids full history. Don't teach kids that sex happens and is natural, and comes in many different ways, but protect yourself from consequences. But hey, gotta say a prayer and Pledge of Allegiance...

In other words, there are legitimate concerns of parents and there are illegitimate concerns. We all care about the first presumably. MAGA cares deeply and loudly about the latter. Big difference. Huge.

[youthathletics]

...in other news, Portland Schools 'apparently' want to play the role of God, Judge and Jury and not notify family when a 9 year old is raped in school.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -girl.html

The father of one of the boys reported the incident and his son and the other boy were suspended for just one day, the lawsuit said.

Prior to their suspension, instead of getting the police involved in the alleged sexual assault, 'PPS staff undertook their own internal investigation,' the lawsuit said.

Staff also interviewed the girl without telling her parents, family or any legal representatives, according to the suit.

According to court documents, six days after the alleged assault, the victim's father took her to Randall Children's Hospital for an evaluation.

Assuming true, quite outrageous to not immediately report to the family of the girl that such was alleged to have happened once they knew of the allegation. If it did, she needed support immediately, including medical and mental healthcare.

That said, I can understand why a school staff might at least ask the girl about it, given she wasn't the one who reported that an incident had occurred...but if she in any way confirmed something serious had happened, then bring police and parents in immediately. And whatever the level of incident, parents should be told immediately.

These are 9 year olds, maybe 10?

I can understand teachers and staff having a hard time imagining this occurring and wanting to be more confident before escalating through the roof with police etc.

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in this reporting and lawsuit...when exactly did the school get told by the father of the boy? Same day as event? Next day? What did he actually report? That 'something' had happened out of bounds or that there was forced penetration? When did the school let the family of the girl know? The day they learned, a day later?...did the family wait to get medical help or go right away?

Why did the school only suspend for a day? Did they not believe the event was super serious? Bullying would be serious, sexual contact way out of bounds, but forced penetration, super serious. Must not have been convinced that the girl was either not complicit or that the event had gone so far...assuming it did. Sounds like they had doubts or that wasn't what was actually reported.

Big lawsuit $, so are the allegations about the school's behavior slanted to make them sound really bad...for $ ? Or is the reality more complex?

Only 'good guy' in all this so far sounds like the boy's father who reported that at least something out of bounds had happened.

My wife worked with at risk populations. You might be amazed at what transpires (well, at least what is reported). The most astounding was the line between the therapist/counselor and law enforcement. This was 10 or so years ago, and from what I hear/observe, the problem has gotten worse.

My wife is still immersed in it...you are correct, it is even more miserable now. it's the very reason why so many have been up and arms about things going on in public schools, while many want to minimize it as just crazy maga types.

To MD's point.....you bolded and I added red. At no point, should school staff be trying to make these judgement calls, especially not notifying parents. My wife MUST notify parents if a child even gets a scrape on the playground or even a blemish.

mmmm, seems like there's a YUGE difference between making sure parents are aware of any actual dangers to their kids, bullying, assaults, etc and protecting kids from their or other parents' abuse and biases.

I don't think anyone on here would call it MAGA to want parents to get the first call if their kid has been assaulted, though the notion that the school teachers and counselors shouldn't be stepping in to help is ridiculous too. Maybe it's now MAGA to tell teachers and counselors to butt out, don't help the kids?

Where most of us who aren't MAGA object to MAGA "parent's rights" is the "right" of one set of parents to tell teachers and principals what can and can't be taught to others parents' children. Regardless of facts, don't teach kids full history. Don't teach kids that sex happens and is natural, and comes in many different ways, but protect yourself from consequences. But hey, gotta say a prayer and Pledge of Allegiance...

In other words, there are legitimate concerns of parents and there are illegitimate concerns. We all care about the first presumably. MAGA cares deeply and loudly about the latter. Big difference. Huge.

You are conflating things.....there is zero reason school staff should not immediately be contacting parents at the first sign of what took place. No different than the argument about a childs desire to change sex. We've been down this road, so no need to re-has it, but I believe you were in the camp that parents should NOT be notified of their childrens behavior, and the school can and should handle it. I was not referring to books or teaching.

[MDlaxfan76]

Think we don't need to teach kids about the Holocaust? Nazis? Civics? Here's Maine State Representative -- sorry GOP Representative -- Laurel Libby asking some questions in the State House:

https://twitter.com/aintscarylarry/stat ... 0983952502

I was wondering what the context might be for such a really stupid set of questions. Seems pretty clear she was asking re historical Nazis not some Neo-Nazi numbnuts marching through Skokie...and that's remarkably clueless not simply tone-deaf.

That said, the context was a bill that was passed in Maine over Republican objections that banned paramilitary training intended to be used in furtherance of civil disorder. Paramilitary training was already banned, but those bills from last century involved learning to march etc. Current paramilitary training is often more focused on how to fight the government and who cares about marching. Intent of civil disorder needs to be proven.

This was in reaction to a well known Neo-Nazi wanting to establish a base for such training in Maine, which created an uproar.

Republicans in the legislature claimed this bill would stifle free speech and the right to own guns and train with them. They ignored the intentionality aspect in their eagerness to 'represent' the fringe of the fringe of the MAGA base.

https://www.pressherald.com/2024/04/03/ ... ine-house/

[MDlaxfan76]

...in other news, Portland Schools 'apparently' want to play the role of God, Judge and Jury and not notify family when a 9 year old is raped in school.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... -girl.html

The father of one of the boys reported the incident and his son and the other boy were suspended for just one day, the lawsuit said.

Prior to their suspension, instead of getting the police involved in the alleged sexual assault, 'PPS staff undertook their own internal investigation,' the lawsuit said.

Staff also interviewed the girl without telling her parents, family or any legal representatives, according to the suit.

According to court documents, six days after the alleged assault, the victim's father took her to Randall Children's Hospital for an evaluation.

Assuming true, quite outrageous to not immediately report to the family of the girl that such was alleged to have happened once they knew of the allegation. If it did, she needed support immediately, including medical and mental healthcare.

That said, I can understand why a school staff might at least ask the girl about it, given she wasn't the one who reported that an incident had occurred...but if she in any way confirmed something serious had happened, then bring police and parents in immediately. And whatever the level of incident, parents should be told immediately.

These are 9 year olds, maybe 10?

I can understand teachers and staff having a hard time imagining this occurring and wanting to be more confident before escalating through the roof with police etc.

There's a lot that doesn't make sense in this reporting and lawsuit...when exactly did the school get told by the father of the boy? Same day as event? Next day? What did he actually report? That 'something' had happened out of bounds or that there was forced penetration? When did the school let the family of the girl know? The day they learned, a day later?...did the family wait to get medical help or go right away?

Why did the school only suspend for a day? Did they not believe the event was super serious? Bullying would be serious, sexual contact way out of bounds, but forced penetration, super serious. Must not have been convinced that the girl was either not complicit or that the event had gone so far...assuming it did. Sounds like they had doubts or that wasn't what was actually reported.

Big lawsuit $, so are the allegations about the school's behavior slanted to make them sound really bad...for $ ? Or is the reality more complex?

Only 'good guy' in all this so far sounds like the boy's father who reported that at least something out of bounds had happened.

My wife worked with at risk populations. You might be amazed at what transpires (well, at least what is reported). The most astounding was the line between the therapist/counselor and law enforcement. This was 10 or so years ago, and from what I hear/observe, the problem has gotten worse.

My wife is still immersed in it...you are correct, it is even more miserable now. it's the very reason why so many have been up and arms about things going on in public schools, while many want to minimize it as just crazy maga types.

To MD's point.....you bolded and I added red. At no point, should school staff be trying to make these judgement calls, especially not notifying parents. My wife MUST notify parents if a child even gets a scrape on the playground or even a blemish.

mmmm, seems like there's a YUGE difference between making sure parents are aware of any actual dangers to their kids, bullying, assaults, etc and protecting kids from their or other parents' abuse and biases.

I don't think anyone on here would call it MAGA to want parents to get the first call if their kid has been assaulted, though the notion that the school teachers and counselors shouldn't be stepping in to help is ridiculous too. Maybe it's now MAGA to tell teachers and counselors to butt out, don't help the kids?

Where most of us who aren't MAGA object to MAGA "parent's rights" is the "right" of one set of parents to tell teachers and principals what can and can't be taught to others parents' children. Regardless of facts, don't teach kids full history. Don't teach kids that sex happens and is natural, and comes in many different ways, but protect yourself from consequences. But hey, gotta say a prayer and Pledge of Allegiance...

In other words, there are legitimate concerns of parents and there are illegitimate concerns. We all care about the first presumably. MAGA cares deeply and loudly about the latter. Big difference. Huge.

You are conflating things.....there is zero reason school staff should not immediately be contacting parents at the first sign of what took place. No different than the argument about a childs desire to change sex. We've been down this road, so no need to re-has it, but I believe you were in the camp that parents should NOT be notified of their childrens behavior, and the school can and should handle it. I was not referring to books or teaching.

No, YOU are doing the conflating.

On the one hand we quite agree that parents should be notified if there's some actual bullying, assault etc as was allegedly the case you put forward. Someone at the school has hurt the child. Parents have the ultimate responsibility to protect their children.

A child wanting to think about their gender identity or having made a decision about their gender identity did not just happen to them at school, they weren't hurt at the school, they simply expressed that desire. If they don't want to tell their parents, that's between them and their parents. That's not a license for the school to 'handle it', much less exclusively, but facilitating the child getting professional counseling if they are agitated about their choices is prudent, especially given the prevalence of self-harm and suicide in kids grappling with such issues. I'd hope that a professional would explore why the child is not disclosing with the parents, and encouraging openness with parents, but forcing that to happen could be extremely damaging.

The reality is that some parents are extremely abusive about such issues and the children are at serious risk in those cases.

I expressed previously that IMO it's the parents' responsibility to foster trust and love, not submission and fear, with their children. If they fail in that responsibility, that's on them...but the child suffers and society suffers when that's the case. And it's too often the case.

I suspect that you agree with much of the above paragraph, just come out differently.

Now, if I'm conflating by bringing in other issues commonly referenced in these "parental rights" and schools, maybe...though it's frequently the same people being loud and they frequently cite all of these issues together.