LaxPower Back-Up Stick

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 12:48 pm**

Starting this thread for those of us interested in the midwest conferences other than the NCAC (You guys have a nice active thread). OAC, MIAA, CCIW, NACC, Heartland let's hear from you.

Seems like the growth is stalling with the loss of some D3 (rumors of Northland and Concordia Chicago) and NAIA programs. Thoughts?

Posted: **Wed Aug 21, 2024 6:55 pm**

Lacrosse is headed back to where it was in the 80’s. I won’t get into why I think so. But all the signs are there.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 9:34 am**

Donkey - I think I know what you mean but that would be a loooong way to go. Lake Forest dropped lacrosse in 1994, and that left exactly zero D3 programs between Wittenberg and Colorado College. Now there are 40-50 in that space.

When some schools struggle for students and $$$, they see athletics as a way to drive enrollment. This rarely works, especially with sports that require large rosters to thrive. Lacrosse takes numbers, equipment costs per athlete are second only to football, and travel to competition is more extensive than other sports. Add it the shortage of qualified coaches willing to take those jobs, and I expect you're right that programs will drop in the coming years. NCAC, OAC, CCIW, MIAC -- these places will do fine because they typically have resources and enrollment where others don't. In a sense, they allow enrollment to drive the need for athletics, and not the other way around.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 12:08 pm**

White,

I think you nailed it with the coaching.

1. There aren't enough qualified coaches for the collegiate level. Partially because of #2.
2. Schools also aren't committed enough to the programs to pay the head or assistant coaches a living wage to be able to build a program.

All of this leads to too much turnover at a lot of schools which hurts the programs and the sport. They want the enrollment pick up without really committing to it at more than a glorified club level.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 5:05 pm**

Laxfan - One more thing that piggybacks on your comments, is that many D3 athletic directors know next to nothing about lacrosse, and they have an alumni base not positioned to be much help (even at the best of athletic programs).

Wabash is a perfect example of this. They started the program with a coach who was as good as any could be, and all of the budget/support and tradition that a school could hope for ... but also an AD who couldn't get out of the way. When Terry Corcoran left because of that, two subsequent hires were convenient and well-meaning but completely unprepared: four years of floundering. With the 2022 hire of Chris Burke, things finally returned to the right path, but it's still been a tough road.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 8:02 pm**

You are correct. Most of the alumni of these programs in the midwest are still fairly young and not in a position to support. From experience, I can tell you that they heavily rely on the parents of current players to fund the program. Very much pay to play at some midwest programs.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2024 10:14 pm**

Haha - yep. Luckily, my sons went to two schools that do it right, with well funded programs. Some of these places make a summer of club ball and East Coast tournaments look like a bargain.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:23 am**

So reading conflicting info - read a post on another thread that Concordia Chicago (NACC) was shutting down the program, but my son tells me they did not and have many new recruits. Any clarity on the situation?

Thanks!

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2024 12:25 pm**

It looks like they have a 2025 schedule posted, but the roster is not updated yet.

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2024 4:30 pm**

LaxDad2kids wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:23 am So reading conflicting info - read a post on another thread that Concordia Chicago (NACC) was shutting down the program, but my son tells me they did not and have many new recruits. Any clarity on the situation?

Thanks!

This was an email sent in July to CUC:

Update on CUC Men...

I regret to inform you that Concordia University Chicago has determined that its Men's Lacrosse program will be discontinued effective immediately.
As a result, we will not be competing in the Spring 2025 season. This decision does not impact the other CUC sports teams.
The decision was an exceptionally difficult one that has not been taken lightly-please let me explain the reasoning behind it. When we began the program in 2016, the sport was viewed as an opportunity for the University to take part in a growing D3 intercollegiate sport. Since that time, however, men's lacrosse in general hasn't developed at the speed or to the levels we anticipated. As a result, it has proven especially challenging for CUC to maintain a complete and competitive roster of players.
While the timing isn't ideal, we hope sharing this news with you well in advance of the spring season will provide you and your teammates with a reasonable timeframe to choose the next best steps for you. Of course, we hope that you will remain a CUC Cougar, but also understand that the ability to play men's lacrosse may have been a primary factor in your decision to study with us. You've learned during your time on campus that CUC has much to offer beyond athletics - whether it's the quality of your academic program, the close personal relationships you have developed or the dedication to placing Christ at the center of all we do.
With that said, we are committed to supporting whatever decision you make regarding your personal athletic and academic future. This includes

Posted: **Tue Sep 03, 2024 11:08 pm**

LaxDad2kids wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:23 am ...men's lacrosse in general hasn't developed at the speed or to the levels we anticipated. As a result, it has proven especially challenging for CUC to maintain a complete and competitive roster of players.

Thanks for clarifying.

Interesting rationale by the AD...

CUC went 8-90 overall in eight seasons. Lake Forest (30 miles north) added lacrosse in 2022, won eight games in their first season.

Edgewood (added lacrosse in 2021) lost to CUC 16-7 in their first season; outscored CUC 64-8 in the last three years.

Marian - 43 wins in seven seasons.
Cornell (Iowa) - 44 wins in nine seasons.
Beloit - 56 wins in 11 seasons.
Carroll - has 94 losses in 10 seasons, beat CUC 16-2 last year.

Not sure external factors are to blame, here.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2024 1:50 pm**

EasyRider wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 11:08 pm
LaxDad2kids wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:23 am ...men's lacrosse in general hasn't developed at the speed or to the levels we anticipated. As a result, it has proven especially challenging for CUC to maintain a complete and competitive roster of players.
Thanks for clarifying.

Interesting rationale by the AD...

CUC went 8-90 overall in eight seasons. Lake Forest (30 miles north) added lacrosse in 2022, won eight games in their first season.

Edgewood (added lacrosse in 2021) lost to CUC 16-7 in their first season; outscored CUC 64-8 in the last three years.

Marian - 43 wins in seven seasons.
Cornell (Iowa) - 44 wins in nine seasons.
Beloit - 56 wins in 11 seasons.
Carroll - has 94 losses in 10 seasons, beat CUC 16-2 last year.

Not sure external factors are to blame, here.

Facts here are that CUC campus is extremely outdated and not appealing to recruits, in my honest opinion it's a dump. They barely had a budget compared to other teams in the region, and the school never hired a coach who could bring in talent. These ADs and schools need to do their research on who they are competing with for recruits. If you don't have the resources don't add. Thinking kids will come just to play lacrosse isn't the case. Kids would rather go to a MCLA school and play club vs going to somewhere like CUC.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2024 2:51 pm**

The Midwest is struggling look at what has happened to Beloit their first coach had then highly competitive in the Midwest. Won an MLC title have not really gotten things back to that level. Marian has been burning through Coaches Carroll has burn through coaches as well. Cuc isn’t even the best campus on their own block with Dominican next store.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:11 pm**

The truth is many of these schools struggle hiring competent coaches. The schools that do, succeed. The schools that dont, fail. CCIW has many good coaches and it is a big reason it is dominant in the Midwest.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:26 pm**

MDlacrosse45 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:11 pm ... CCIW has many good coaches and it is a big reason it is dominant in the Midwest.

Hardly dominant. Top half of the OAC and top 2 in MIAA are better than the CCIW most years. That's only even if you exclude the NCAC. Top half of that conference smokes the rest of Ohio and west from there.

Posted: **Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:31 pm**

midwestlaxdad wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 2:51 pm The Midwest is struggling look at what has happened to Beloit their first coach had then highly competitive in the Midwest. Won an MLC title have not really gotten things back to that level. Marian has been burning through Coaches Carroll has burn through coaches as well. Cuc isn’t even the best campus on their own block with Dominican next store.

Not enough qualified coaches and not enough dedicated financial resources at a lot of the schools west of PA. Heads in beds philosophy will only work so long as parents will foot the bill and the school is reasonably attractive. This gravy train is starting to dry up. In the next 5 years, 1/3rd of the schools west of PA won't have lax anymore. It's already starting.

Posted: **Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:45 am**

laxfan13 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:26 pm
MDlacrosse45 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:11 pm ... CCIW has many good coaches and it is a big reason it is dominant in the Midwest.
Hardly dominant. Top half of the OAC and top 2 in MIAA are better than the CCIW most years. That's only even if you exclude the NCAC. Top half of that conference smokes the rest of Ohio and west from there.

I could be wrong but doesnt the top half of the CCIW, Elmhurst, IWU and Carthage beat Albion and Hope almost every year? I am not sure nor Elmhurst or IWU have ever lost to BW or John Carroll either?

Posted: **Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:45 am**

MDlacrosse45 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:45 am
laxfan13 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:26 pm
MDlacrosse45 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:11 pm ... CCIW has many good coaches and it is a big reason it is dominant in the Midwest.
Hardly dominant. Top half of the OAC and top 2 in MIAA are better than the CCIW most years. That's only even if you exclude the NCAC. Top half of that conference smokes the rest of Ohio and west from there.
I could be wrong but doesnt the top half of the CCIW, Elmhurst, IWU and Carthage beat Albion and Hope almost every year? I am not sure nor Elmhurst or IWU have ever lost to BW or John Carroll either?

Hope has played all 3 of those teams each of the last 3 seasons, and is 6-3. Albion is 2-4 in that same timeframe. We will start seeing John Carroll playing more of these teams as they are now in the NCAC and will be in region with the CCIW teams. I think the conferences all have a few very competitive teams with each other, the top 3 of the NCAC being the exception.

Posted: **Fri Sep 06, 2024 3:20 pm**

boredatwork wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 10:45 am
MDlacrosse45 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 06, 2024 8:45 am
laxfan13 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 6:26 pm
MDlacrosse45 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 05, 2024 4:11 pm ... CCIW has many good coaches and it is a big reason it is dominant in the Midwest.
Hardly dominant. Top half of the OAC and top 2 in MIAA are better than the CCIW most years. That's only even if you exclude the NCAC. Top half of that conference smokes the rest of Ohio and west from there.
I could be wrong but doesnt the top half of the CCIW, Elmhurst, IWU and Carthage beat Albion and Hope almost every year? I am not sure nor Elmhurst or IWU have ever lost to BW or John Carroll either?
Hope has played all 3 of those teams each of the last 3 seasons, and is 6-3. Albion is 2-4 in that same timeframe. We will start seeing John Carroll playing more of these teams as they are now in the NCAC and will be in region with the CCIW teams. I think the conferences all have a few very competitive teams with each other, the top 3 of the NCAC being the exception.

Thanks for the facts. As I said, CCIW is hardly dominant.

That said, I like seeing these top 3-4 teams from CCIW, MIAA, OAC and NACC play each other. Would love to see a midwest version of the Mustang Classic everyone raves about on the east coast.

Posted: **Tue Sep 10, 2024 9:36 am**

LaxDad2kids wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 10:23 am So reading conflicting info - read a post on another thread that Concordia Chicago (NACC) was shutting down the program, but my son tells me they did not and have many new recruits. Any clarity on the situation?

Thanks!

Definitely would like to know who said that to your son, LOL

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